Dixon & Vining Hour 3 (010224)

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all right welcome back to the dixon inviting show brian dawson here c o vaty nineteen news uh... filling in and joined by my luscious co-host pastor rich lusco trinity press teary church uh... you can give us call uh... two o five five four five nine nine five zero and join the conversation speaking

of joining the conversation we've got albert from ruffner mountain uh... joining the h one b one c one nine one uh... conversation about uh... pieces and all that so uh... uh... albert uh... thanks for taking the time uh... to to join us here what do you got happy new year to you happy new year uh... uh... uh... i think this h one b one is sort of a smokescreen for

i mean it's it's it's it's important but it's like uh... it would would test would be allowed in today would would ninety percent of all the the the people who started this country the burns like carna gi and all these people who weren't born on us all would they be allowed in today we know we've always allowed people with exceptional abilities to enter this country to to make this country even better and they have for the most part uh... it's it's like uh...

these glaring headlines of UAB and Auburn having these high numbers of these people. Where UAB employs 15,000 people and there's like 108 of those people are on these special visas. The same applies to Auburn. It's a ridiculously low number. These are specialized people who do specialized things and we need to let some of these people into this country. Now we don't need to allow

People who come here for a welfare are for to scam the system because that's not what happened in the early part of this country. When 30, 40 million people came over here and built this country, the skyscrapers, the buildings, the roads, because we didn't have enough people here to do that, but those people did it.

Sure. We're in, and I think the argument here is, uh, we let people in that came and did those things, 100% Rockefeller, uh, all the, the, the, you know, the quote unquote robber barons. I don't know that I buy that completely. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. But that's what they're referred to. I don't, but yeah, I agree, I agree with you. And so these guys who came over here did incredible things, got that, you know, check, check, check, agree with you there.

But that is not what is happening. Okay. These people are coming over and working for less to replace people who were already doing it and the people who were already doing it that were being paid more, having to train their replacements. And so it's not that they're not qualified. It's not that we need them that bad.

Um, that's what's being sold to us by the people who want it. They want to go over to a third world country and take their top talent. And again, I'm not, I'm not buying the argument that these people are so unbelievably skilled that they could change the world, but they can't change where they are. Okay. Why is India, if India has all these unbelievably specialized, incredible, just amazing smart people that can do so much. Why is it a third world crap hole? Cause it's not capitalism. That's it. Capitalism will fix it.

that capitalism is not going to fix the problem if they could do it they would they don't okay and so we're going over there and picking their top talent putting their nation uh... in a worse position and pulling them over here to replace our people

for cheaper labor. That's the criticism of H1B when I don't disagree with you. But the incredible, the von Braun, the unbelievable top talent that immigrates over here, they've never had a problem coming over here. And I think what we are being sold is this very good thing that you're talking about. They're selling us what you're saying that you're correct on

And then kind of what's actually coming in behind it is this replacement cheap labor coming from the third world. And then to top it all off when Vivek says it's because we're stupid and fat is just, you know, where I. Well, that's, you know, that's people, people say stupid things, but Ann Coulter probably said it best. She said that the difference is that these people coming over are indentured servants because they can't leave. Once they get those positions,

Americans can move around and to different jobs, but once these people come over here, they're stuck at that company, and they can't move around. That's the difference. And there's no competition. That's not capitalism. You should have the freedom to move around. But I'm saying that the overall immigration system stinks. In the long run, a long time ago, when people came over here, churches and

private companies and everybody else took care of and kinfolk took care of these people who are coming over here. Now it's welfare. So that's a totally different matter. That's a totally different matter.

But yeah, I think it's a smokescreen. So I think we still need to let a bunch of these people in. I do thank you for taking my call. Awesome. Yeah, I mean, Albert's got a great point. The question is, is it about elite talent or cheap talent? Yeah, that's really what what I as I understand the debate that just took place. That's what it's about 100%. And I don't mean.

with politics, you always end up with a compromise. That's just the way it's going to be. But if we're this ends up is we still have an H1B1 type program that allows highly vetted, but also highly skilled and elite type talent in.

I'm not going to really object to that. That's fine. We've had a history of doing that. Albert pointed that out. You pointed that out as well, Brian. I think that would be fine. But if it's just about replacing American workers with cheaper labor from overseas because people will do the same job for let, that I think is a problem.

Because then it's an, it's an immigration system that's no longer serving the interests and the needs of the American people. Yeah. It's, it's higher end of what's happening in the construction industry. It's the higher end version of that, right? That's, that, that to me is what it's turned into. But yeah, no, I, I completely agree. But I think the bigger thing and the reason I mean, and continue to drive this conversation back to the point that it's about cheap labor and not elite labor and what they're getting is semi-elite for cheap rather than

elite for what it actually costs and having to pay those people benefits and everything else. Again, a lot of this started coming in in 2008 when we were in a financial crisis and they needed to do what they needed to do and so on and so forth. If there are a lot of Elon Musk type figures out there, sure. Yeah. That would be okay with them coming in, but they are extremely rare. But again, that's not, and so I would not object to that because that's not really stealing a bunch of American jobs. If they come over and they innovate, they might create even more jobs.

Yeah. But that's not really what the most recent debate was about. It was more about just bringing in cheap labor that will do the same job that Americans were doing for less. Yeah. And I think another conversation we're having, and I don't know if this will continue on in our thread, and I want to go back to something that we'll get into, is

the hyper criticism of Elon Musk ever since the H1B program, kind of from people who are in my camp. I think it's ridiculous how much we've been criticizing him and we'll get to that. But I want to ask the question too. And again, these are things that we have to begin to think through. So the solutions to our problems are over in this realm of things you're not allowed to talk about because of racism. And the solution to our problems over here in this other thing, because it violates this orthodoxy or that ideology

We're going to have to get outside of what's socially acceptable to talk about in order to find some of the solutions of these things. And I think an interesting thing is, you know, the question do is, are there countries in people that it's easier for them to assimilate to American culture values and customs and heritage, you know, than other countries?

is a person from England going to find it easier to immigrate to America than a person from Haiti. That's your, that's your opposite ends of the spectrum, right? And so everything from language to culture to heritage and everything is going to make it easier for, for someone from England. And everybody's going, well, it's because he's white now. That's not, that's not the only thing. There's, there's all kinds of shared culture and heritage and language and all of these other things and religion that comes from someone from England

moving to America, and then on the opposite end of the spectrum, you have Haiti, okay? So the point I'm trying to bring is there's a spectrum out there that exists on assimilation and the challenges and how long it will take. And if you overrun our system with people who do not, who it's not as easy for them to assimilate to our culture and our moors and our ways and our heritage and our customs,

and you're funneling them in, whether it's a bunch of people crossing the border by the millions illegally to get benefits and take construction jobs, or if you're bringing them from a third world country to do these high level jobs as indentured servants, as Albert pointed out. Either way, we have to have a mindset, and again, it goes back to why do we think we can export America to the third world and it work? Why do we think we can import the third world to America and it work? It's because we think that

We've come up with this idea that there's no differences with people and that, you know, that everyone's exactly the same. It's a egalitarianism. People are interchangeable economic units. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. Just some are willing to work for less money. Yeah, correct. Which is very, very convenient. All right. Well,

I guess we'll hit another quick break. Yeah, we're going to hit through a break. Rich has got an incredible thought that he wants to share with you guys. I could see it on his face. He almost exploded by the time we got it. We got to tease him to get onto the other side of the break. Rich has got it. He's actually writing it down as we speak. It's so good.

and you guys gotta wait through the break to hear him uh... pontificate on whatever whatever it is this is uh... the dixon and binding show will be back all right welcome back to the dixon and binding show on talk ninety nine five Birmingham's real talk you can join the conversation uh... by calling two zero five five four five nine nine five zero you see how they put that nine nine five very creative

Join this amazing conversation if you dare. If you want to get canceled, go ahead and call in and have these conversations with us. Maybe you want to give a pseudonym because of these fun conversations we're having. But if we're not willing to have the conversations that will get you canceled, we're never going to get to where we need to get continuing to allow the conversation to exist within the orthodoxies that it has has gotten us where we are.

So I think we need to push the envelope and operate in good faith and so on and so forth. Rich, what was that incredible, unbelievable, amazing thought that you had before you went to the... Did you forget it? I did lose it. You had to go to the bathroom. That's from of these long commercial breaks. We're inside of two hours, Brian, to solve all the world's problems. I'm starting to feel a little bit of pressure here to be done.

I don't know what it was. You felt pressure earlier too and had to go to the bathroom and relieve the pressure and that's where you lost the thought. So, well, if you were waiting on the edge of your seat and, you know, avoiding responsibility so that you could hear the monologue by Rich that you were waiting to come back for, it is gone. If you pick up and start talking about whatever you're talking about, it probably come back. All right. Well, I don't remember what I was talking about either. That's of the, I'm like a goldfish.

the attention span of it i feel like a goldfish because steve over there on the other side uh... and with the window and everything so if you could see how the studios set up they've got the the the big glass thing and then behind us there's glass so i feel a little bit like i'm a fish we are surrounded by glass it's just not water welcome to the world radio yes maybe he's gonna trickling some fish food for us we'll see uh... no what i'd like to jump into is uh... i think uh... conservatives have been

And when I say conservatives, I mean, like the real ones, okay. Conservatives have been so backstabbed by establishment politicians, Chamber of Commerce, big corporate, you know, politicians in the Republican party that flat out, we just like were very skeptical to trust anyone in that it's almost kind of like battered puppy syndrome, you know, and you see a dog that's been beaten and then it goes up to you and you're like, you go to pet it and it's like,

You know, that's us with how we've been treated by our political representation. And I think one of the things that we have a tendency to do is to start making enemies out of people who are actually friends because they don't agree with us 100% ideologically. And I think that's dangerous. I think we are never going to create a movement that's actually going to change the nation and win our country back.

Uh, if we don't begin to deal with people, I guess with a sense of nuance. And I guess where I'm going with this is that, um, the, the, this conversation, this, um, is, uh, regarding the H one B program and exploded on Twitter, uh, all of the conservatives that think a lot like I do kind of paleo conservative, more traditional, uh, heritage American, um, way of thinking.

about a nationhood that we're not a propositional nation. We're not a global economic zone. People are more than cogs in an economic wheel. We're more than our GDP. There's a lot more going on as far as culture and mental health and all these other metrics that we can use to measure a nation. People who think like that came back and pushed really hard against Elon Musk and

is kind of going to war against us in our views on the H1B. And I am with him in criticizing him. And as Rich pointed out, Elon actually listened. Now again, we didn't change his mind, but he did listen and say, okay, well, I think based off of this like five day argument, if we do the H1Bs, we're going to have to make some constructive changes that actually do make it something that's much more beneficial

to an America first way of thinking, but he did, he responded. But the point that I want to make is that people who believe like I do need to calm down on, you know, criticize Musk all you want, criticize Trump, criticize whoever, challenge their ideas, don't challenge the person specifically when that person in my mind, you could put a fifth face on Mount Rushmore with Elon Musk based off of what he did in the 2024 election. So beginning before the election, him buying Twitter,

absolutely decentralized mass media. Okay, Twitter, the traffic on Twitter used to be abysmal. It was basically just, it was not the place to go to get news. It was just not a great social media site. Everything was censored to death. You know,

Elon buys it. Definitely is not going to be a big cash winner for him. He spends $44 billion buying this platform and then goes to work beginning to fix it and opens it up to where the conversations that are being had on Twitter, it's unbelievable the things that he's allowing conversations that he's allowing. You go and try and talk about those things on a podcast and watch YouTube kick you off. Ask me how I know and or go try and say those things on Facebook and see if you don't get throttled on your traffic.

And these conversations are being had freely, all kinds of different conversations about all kinds of subjects that we get you kicked off everything from COVID to some of the immigration conversations we've been having to stolen elections and everything else. You can just freely have these conversations on this platform and it is now skyrocketed past Facebook and traffic.

Uh, and all of this happened because he was willing to spend $44 billion on something that he knew was going to be a financial loser because if you have those conversations on a social media platform, all the major corporations aren't going to advertise on your social media platform. So you're not going to be able to make as much money. Do you see? And so he made a huge sacrifice. Um, you know, uh, again, and everyone's like, well, with his immense wealth, 44 billions, nothing compared to his, it's okay.

Still, I mean, that's a lot of money no matter what. Yeah, correct. $44,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.

But not only that, but then after Donald Trump gets shot, he jumps, I mean, literally minutes after Trump was shot, he jumped in and gave a full-throated endorsement of President Trump to be the next president. He went all in, he gave tremendous sums of money when you look at other political donations, yes, is, you know, compared to his overall wealth. Yes, I mean, his overall wealth is not something any of us have ever seen before.

However, he was still, I think, giving like $45 million or $45 million or $90 million a month or something, which in political donations, that's massive. But not only that, he went completely in so much so that if

Trump lost. He would lose every single contract. He would have been probably debanked. They would have went after him with political retribution likes of which we've never seen before. Um, and he, he would have lost his, his entire kingdom. He went all in and not only did he go all in, not only did he give tons of money, but then he literally went the last month of the election. He was in Pennsylvania doing rallies every single night trying to win the people of Pennsylvania, knowing what a pivotal state that it was.

No, we've never seen a billionaire go in for a politician the way that the richest billionaire ever to exist went in for Donald Trump, who was, yes, a popular candidate among the people, but the least popular among the establishment that there ever has been. So this is, this man who risked everything and we can credit a lot of the fact that we won the 2024 election directly to Elon Musk and the risks that he took. Yeah, I think that's right. And it is interesting.

The left desk continued to attack him. I saw this morning, you know, so the Cybertruck, the Tesla Cybertruck outside of the Trump Hotel in Las Vegas. A lot of the headlines read something like, you know, Tesla Cybertruck catches fire, like it's just randomly happened. Like there's some defect within the truck. And when of course, actually, this is a very deliberate explosion that was set off.

they will not miss any opportunity to attend somebody. Mostly peaceful truck fire outside of Trump Tower or Trump Hotel. All right, with that beautiful music hitting the headphones, the cans as we call them here in the radio industry. I know it's time to hit another break. This is the Dixon and Vining Show on Talk 99.5. We will be back. All right, welcome back to the Dixon and Vining Show on Talk 99.5. Brian Dawson, CEO of 18.90 News, guest hosting.

for Richard and Val, here with my illustrious co-host Rich Lusk, who's a pastor of Trinity Presbyterian Church. Do you like to join the conversation here? It is 205-545-995-0. Feel free to come in, give us some commentary. If you want to argue with me, I'm always down for that too. Maybe if you have bad ideas and you call in, I'm not just going to take it. We'll have a good

a good uh... sparring session uh... no but um... would love for you guys to join in let us know you you're listening uh... but uh... continuing the conversation about you on musk and that the criticism coming from people who believe i think like rich and i both do uh... about this h1b conversation the overall place of immigration in an america first economy of if our entire landslide election was based off of uh... not wanting uh... illegal immigration and

wanting America first, well, what place does legal, not illegal, but legal immigration, lawful immigration, what place does that serve inside of an America first nation? Obviously, people who own businesses are going to have different opinions than the people who work at those businesses and felt slighted by some of the incoming labor supply. So I think it's a conversation we need to have, but Musk obviously is a gazillionaire and a business owner of many businesses.

uh... he has his view and i disagree with him and that's okay that doesn't mean that he uh... is a villain that doesn't mean that he's an enemy it doesn't mean that he's a trojan horse that's not what that means

And in something we have to think about guys as our tent continues to expand and increase, and I'm not talking about a big tent Republican where we go and buy everybody into our big tent. I think that's stupid. But as we hold the line and be who we are and other people see how beautiful our vision of a, a mega America first America is and they want to come into the tent. We don't expand our tent to go get people who are outside of what I would say conservative orthodoxy.

We don't change what's conservative so that we get more people. We just are who we are. And when people will see how good it is, those people come into the tent willingly. You're seeing people like Elon Musk, who was a Democrat a few years ago, come in. You're seeing Joe Rogan. You're seeing Jordan Peterson. You're seeing RFK Jr. You're seeing Tulsi Gabbard. You're seeing all of these people who are part of the MAGA movement that are to the core exactly who we are.

Uh, but they are having paradigm shifts, paradigm shifts that cause them to leave the Democrat party and move into the Republican party. Huge paradigm shifts. They're on a journey. Just like, uh, most of, I mean, maybe, maybe you guys, uh, came out of the womb with a Pat Buchanan book and an American flag and I don't tread on me shirt. I don't know.

But we all take a journey to get to where we are politically, and some of these really incredible people are on this journey, and I think we need to show some grace to people like Elon, who maybe don't see exactly what we do, except Vivek, he's probably a Trojan horse. So as a pastor, when, I don't know if the listeners are familiar with the work of Aaron Rinn, who put out a book called Life in Negative World, where I know we're gonna talk about books at some point, but this is one that I've

I'll bring up now. And basically, and we may have talked about this, you know, I may have talked about this on the radio before on podcasts. We've done them. I'm sure we probably mentioned it. But rent rent's thesis, basically, is that American culture has moved from the relationship of the Christian faith to American culture. We've moved through positive world where there was a great benefit to being a Christian to neutral world where it didn't matter whether you were or not to now what he calls

negative world. And if you're interested in how he maps out that, historically, and all that, you can read his book. I won't try to retrace that here. But we do live in negative world now, where being a Christian, obviously in the Bible Belt, it's not as severe as it is other places. But where the Christian faith, and particularly things associated with the Christian faith, like say, our sex ethic and that kind of thing, are really looked down upon. And there can be a real cost. There can be a real consequence, negative consequence, for being a Christian.

So we have to come to groups with the fact that our, you know, so for me as a Christian, as a pastor, my faith is not in cultural ascendancy today, the way that it was.

Um, so you can't, you can't really expect the same kind of support for Christian convictions that you would have in another time in our history. But within the framework of negative world, I think Donald Trump is perhaps the best president that you could hope to get. I don't know that Trump's a Christian himself. I don't, I haven't really seen evidence of that. Um, I think he would probably claim to be, I'm not sure that that's a real credible profession of faith based on the ways lived his life and denied his need for

Repentance and forgiveness in the past. I mean, I can't say for sure where he stands. I'm just saying it doesn't. There's not a lot of clear cut evidence about that. And I don't think Musk makes any. I mean, he doesn't make any profession to be a Christian. I know he did a Babylon B interview years ago and they

semi-vangelized him in that. It was kind of a lame, I mean I like the Babylon Bee guys, but it was a lame attempt to vandalize Musk. But that being said, my point is within negative world to some extent you have to adjust your expectations. You're not going to have full agreement and you're not going to have perhaps as much influence if you're coming at all this from a Christian perspective.

So when Brian talks about things like a big tent, well, I mean, to some extent, as a Christian, you have to learn how to interact with non-Christians who obviously don't fully align with you, but maybe somewhat align with you, where there's some overlap, where you have what I would call, from my perspective, as a Christian, non-Christians who are in touch with reality. Jordan Peterson fits in this category. He's a non-Christian.

who appreciates a lot about the Christian faith, and I think he's in touch with certain aspects of reality. And I would say that's true of Musk and Trump and other figures like that too. So Trump may be the best kind of president you could hope for in a negative world environment. I appreciate Musk as well, even though I definitely disagree with him on all kinds of issues.

But I would say what Musk has done by purchasing Twitter and basically ensuring that there is a free speech platform for us where ideas can compete and may the best idea win. I do think that's created what people have called a vibe shift where there's a lot more openness to the Christian faith and to a conservative worldview. And a lot of these guys who were very progressive themselves have actually moderated and moved in a conservative direction because of it.

I mean, I was on Twitter but not active on Twitter really until, I guess it was maybe like last summer or last fall. And I kind of started to get more engaged on Twitter because I just kind of figured, hey, if Musk was willing to spend all this money to save free speech for us, maybe the least I could do as a pastor is take advantage of it. Yeah. And use it and see how that goes. Yeah. And you've kind of had an explosion and following tons of engagement on your stuff. What is your Twitter handle, by the way?

My Twitter handle is, that's a good question. I always have a hard time remembering it. It's Vicar. It's Vicar 1973. Vicar 1973. Although I think because I've got my name on there, I think of people just searching my name. Rich Lusk, yeah. Vicar 1973. It sounds Catholic, Rich. It's not. I know that it's not because I know you. But that's true. I'm not a Roman Catholic. But I am a small C Catholic Christian.

And I do believe that pastors, I think all Christians are vickers in the sense of representatives of Christ, but pastors in particular are vickers when they're performing their official capacity, operating in their official capacity as pastors. I think they're vickers in the sense of representatives of Christ for sure. No, I just had to throw it out there. I just wanted to make sure you could clarify. And 1973 is the year I was born. Yeah, a bunch of Internet slews were getting busy trying to figure that one out. So I'm Gen X, not a boomer. There you go.

Thank God. Which means I don't care what anybody thinks. Yes. All right. Well, another thing worth noting is we're going to take a call from Lonnie on a cell. So the phone lights up and it says the person's name and it says where they're from, where they're calling from, and then the subject. And we don't know where Lonnie's from. It just says on a cell, meaning on a cell phone. So it's Lonnie on a cell. We'll go to him. It's better than being in a cell. That's right. Well, I could tell you a little bit about that, but that's neither here nor there.

On that note with the vibe shift and the paradigm shifts and people being on a journey recently, Elon Musk said he considered himself a cultural Christian because he sees how the Christian worldview shaped the West and allowed, you know, created somewhere like America where he was able to do what he did. That would not have happened without Christians. And so just like him, just like Jordan Peterson, just like Joe Rogan, these guys are coming to the realization that it was Christianity that shaped and molded and formed this nation to be what it is and the West to be what it is.

uh... they they don't uh... deny that i think it's only time between that view and then them accepting christ in my opinion all right lonnie on a cell lonnie go ahead mornin how are you man just uh... uh... uh... gonna be tired here pretty soon i don't get up this early for many things but uh... i did uh... to to come talk to you guys well thank you and happy new year happy new year

I wanted to call because the pastor is on and I kind of wanted to get his view because I have kind of a difficulty in an argument or a debate with people about Christianity and beliefs and then the death penalty. So I don't believe in the death penalty because, you know, God said, now shall not kill and he didn't put any

you know, excuses and they're like, unless they kill first or unless this or unless that. So I think that, you know, prison is a good punishment and it keeps people from harming more people in society, but I don't believe that God approves of our country having the death penalty because that's killing and that's not our place.

yeah i was just wondering if the pastor could comment on that maybe give me a better argument than what i have for people when i come across this conversation with others well uh... loni i'm going to land on the other side of this issue from you it is true in the sixth commandment of the ten commandments

God says thou shalt not murder. But within that same law, there are many places where God commands the death penalty, at least as a maximum sentence. If you go back to Genesis chapter nine, so this is after the account of Noah and the flood, we're gone brings judgment on the whole earth because of its wickedness and spares known as family.

As Noah comes off the ark and as human civilization is going to be reestablished, God says in Genesis 9, that Genesis 9, 6, whoever sheds the blood of man by man shall his blood be shed for God made man in his own image. One of the things that means to be an image bearer is that we are to

execute justice in a way that images God's own justice. Obviously, we won't do that perfectly. We're centers, but God has authorized and even requires man in the institution of civil government to put murders to death.

So if you take someone's life unjustly, then you are justly put to death yourself. And that's the requirement there in Genesis 9. And then in the Torah and the law, there are various other crimes that can be punished in various ways, but including death. There are certain crimes that are so serious.

that that's what justice requires is the death penalty or at least that could be the maximum sentence for various crimes. So if we're just looking at the Bible, I think there's a really strong case that can be made for certainly the death penalty in the case of murders.

And other crimes could be punished that way as well. Well, Lonnie, I think we may even continue. Rich and I will continue to pontificate on this point on the other side of this break that we're up against. I actually really appreciate the call. And this is one of the reasons I like to bring Rich on is to have these conversations, to ask these tough questions. And you know how many pastors would just willingly just dive into this conversation this way? Not very many.

Uh, which is, uh, why I love rich and even my pastor at Reformation Baptist Church, um, talks about this stuff, uh, as well from the pulpit and otherwise. So find a, find a good church, find a good pastor that'll talk about these things. We'll probably continue that conversation when we come back after, uh, this, uh, commercial break. Welcome back to the Dixon and mining show on talk 99 five. If you'd like to join the conversation, uh, that number is 205-545-9950.

Give us a call, join in the conversation. You don't even have to have the conversation we're having. Lonnie came in out of the blue and asked a question that had nothing to do with what we were talking about was a phenomenal question. It was so good. We're going to continue to talk about the subject. I think it's- Hope Lonnie is still listening. Yeah, I hope Lonnie is still listening. I think he is. I'm sure he is. I mean, how would you not listen to us? That's true. Am I right?

So on that note, so one of the things that Lonnie said that I would take, I understand his view on the subject, but I think if you really get into the Word of God and you get into the Bible and figure out what it actually has to say about these things, you will get exactly what Rich said. And I think the other thing that Rich did not mention is this whole idea of the fear of God being before their eyes. And so if you live in a nation, not all of those nation, the people in that nation are going to be faithful to God.

Okay, and so you're going to have people who are not regenerate. What that means is that they're not saved. They're not possessed by the Holy Spirit. They're not using the word of God to govern their lives. They're not going to be self-governing as another way of putting that.

uh... self-governing themselves to what the word of god says uh... so that they are a benefit to the nation uh... you're gonna have rabble rogers and people who go against that and when you use uh... the death penalty ends with if someone goes and kill someone or rape someone or sodomize as a child or something of that and you immediately hang them in the street or put them to death by the firing squad um... what that does is it puts the fear of god before the eyes of the people and so people who

are not submitting to God in their life overall, see someone swinging from a tree because they sodomized a child, they're going to think twice about doing it. Now, we're in a way different place now. We're so far away from actually using the death penalty, the way that it was supposed to be used in our nation. It takes 40 years to execute someone that is not swift punishment, that is not putting the fear of God before people's eyes. It's the way that it's being done in our country is actually wrong. But the other thing I wanted to talk about is

This idea that prison is a good punishment where they're not able to hurt anybody. Well, anyone who knows my story, I've been on Talk 99.5 on a couple of different times and told my story. I've actually been to prison. I got saved in prison. God saved me in prison. I served five years in two months of a 16 year prison sentence in the Colorado Department of Corrections. And so I have a little bit of a window into what it's like in there. And I assure you, people who go in there that should have been executed go in there and continue to rape and stab and hurt people.

even in prison. And yes, those people are often inmates, but sometimes prison staff. You know, they're still a nuisance even where they are. Now, that doesn't mean that God can't save some of these people. And I've seen people that probably should have got the death penalty that they did get saved and it did turn their life around and praise God for that.

but we're not going to make rules based off the exception. Uh, that person, I've got many friends who, um, you know, probably should have got the death penalty and by many, I mean, like two. I got a bunch of them too. Um, and, and one of them is a guy, uh, right here in Birmingham that I, that I got to know, um, and, but, but really not because, um, this guy that I'm thinking of off the top of my head, I'm going to say his name, uh, runs a amazing minister here in Birmingham. Um, I think he killed someone that sexually abused him.

And so that would not be the same thing as a cold blooded murder that would require capital punishment. So these are different things and the Bible talks about these things and there'd be a right use of that. But I guess the points I wanted to make is the fear of God is before their eyes because the punishment is swift and it's done in public. Now we wait 40 years and we give someone a lethal injection and a basement with nobody watching. So it's just, it doesn't have the same effect.

But, uh, and then the, and then the other side is, you know, you, you have these people who, uh, or heinous mass murders or serial killers or, um, child sodomizers and you put them into, uh, a, a prison setting and they're going to go in there and do those things to people in prison, right? And so just because they're in prison doesn't mean that they're,

not people, and their evil will continue even in there. And so there's just some things that we as a society need to say, we don't do that in America. We don't sodomize children. Sorry, buddy. We have to swing you from the light post there with this nice new rope or shoot with firing squad or whatever. And people, they think it's crazy to talk like this, but you can talk about the guy sodomizing children. And so there's people who have mercy for him.

And then I'm crazy for saying that after that person has been proven guilty in a court of law, that there should be a swift execution and it should be public. Anyway. Yeah, so Romans 13 says that the civil magistrate is God's deacon, God's servant, and he does not bear the sword in vain. God has entrusted civil magistrates with the power of the sword. The sword is used for killing.

And so, and actually in that context at the end of Romans 12, God says, vengeance is mine, I will repay. Well, of course, at the final judgment, God will take care of all vengeance himself. But in the meantime, he uses civil magistrates to do it. Now, if magistrates don't rule according to God's norms and standards of justice, then obviously that's a real problem. And we have a lot of that in our day, in our country, and of course in other countries too.

Ideally, that's what you would have is a civil magistrate who administers God's judgment in the civil sphere. And so that would require the death penalty for murder, as we talked about from Genesis 9. And, you know, it's interesting to me, you know, the Bible doesn't really talk about prisons as a way of punishing or reforming criminals so often.

prison becomes a place where criminals go to further hone their skills so when they're released they're

right back to it and even more effectively in some cases. Now that's not always. Obviously they're redemptive stories coming out of prison and we know that God can work when and how he wills. But that's what happens all too often. And so what happens with the prison system is very often the victim of the crime is not really compensated for the way in which they were hurt. And the

And then he has to pay taxes to support the criminal who stole from him or harmed him in some way while he's in prison. It's really not a very good system. Yeah. Imagine that our government created a bad system. Who knew? On the other side of this break, we're going to finish out the final hour.

of this incredible probably the best guest hosting that's ever been done here i'm pretty sure i mean i i don't know i'm i think steve agrees with me and even if he doesn't i'm gonna say that he is because you guys can't see him and i can uh... we're gonna do our book reviews books that we read in twenty twenty four books that we're gonna read in twenty twenty five and books that you should read whenever you get around to it all will be back

Hi, I'm Joe Salcy. Hi, host of the Stacking Benjamin's Podcast. Every week, we talk to experts about saving, investing, personal finance trends. Oh, crypto. Can't do it. You could have done all that research, all the breadcrumbs, and thought this company's never going bankrupt. Foil to get. You never knew personal finance could be this fun. Throw in doubt that got one. I'm bringing it today. I'm only going to be off by six figures. Perfect. And seven. Every boy has a dream, Doc. Every boy has a dream. Sure. Stacking Benjamin's. Follow and listen on your favorite platform.

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