You're listening to This Naked Mind with Annie Grace. Hi, this is Annie Grace, and welcome to This Naked Mind podcast, and I'm here with Agnes. Hi, Agnes. How are you? Hi, Annie. I'm good. How are you?
I'm good. So good to have you on. So why don't you take us back to the beginning in your relationship with alcohol? Where did it all start for you? Well, first of all, alcohol was always a big part of my life. It was already in my family household. So I come from a European background. I was actually born in Poland. And then when I was four, I immigrated to Canada.
My parents, at that point, they were working two jobs. Then on the weekends, they used that time to basically unwind, and there was a lot of drinking involved. So the way that I was exposed to alcohol was you work hard, you play hard. So during the week, you're working two jobs, and on the weekends, you are relaxing and letting loose.
So for me, even growing up, I always thought that drinking on weekends was never an issue. The people that were drinking every day, having a glass of wine with dinner, that they're the ones who had a problem with alcohol, not the ones that did it on the weekends. So that's what I learned already at a young age.
And now, through that, whenever there was alcohol that was involved, then it obviously, it was a very unpredictable type of environment when the drinking became really heavy within my family. So there would be a lot of arguments between my parents, but there would be physical abuse there. So violence was a big part of it. So you just never really knew what was going to happen.
And everything was at that point, my father was drunk. So that was the excuse, that's why he hit my mother. So alcohol was always used as an excuse for any behavior that happened.
which I didn't understand that, not until now. So that just continued on throughout my childhood. Then there was an unfortunate incident that did happen with me, that involved alcohol as well. We had friends that their place had a fire, so they needed summer to stay, so they stayed with my family.
And they spent the parents that I spent tonight drinking again. And that was all fine. But at that point, what ended up happening is I was sexually assaulted. And I was nine at that age. I did go to my parents. The first thing was, are you sure that you were dreaming this? And then the second comment that was made,
Oh, he was drunk. He probably thought it was his wife, so he had no idea. I'm sure that that's not what he meant to do. He had no idea what he was doing. That immediately, again, I couldn't understand how alcohol was being as an excuse for all behaviors that were happening, and it made me really confused.
So that just continued on through my childhood until I don't remember the first time I actually had alcohol. It would have been in grade nine. So I just started high school at that point. Again, it is something that everyone does not drinking. I didn't think it was an option. So of course I realized very quickly that social environments
I struggled with that because I was questioning my worth. I was questioning a lot of things and I was still very bitter and very unhappy because I never dealt with any of the traumas that I lived through.
So immediately I started drinking and then I found out at a very quick rate that alcohol just makes you feel good. So it was that liquid courage that you talk about. It was
being social was not an issue. So I felt like, okay, I need to drink to be social. It also just let me be. I was so afraid of showing who I am, which I didn't even know who I was. So it just allowed me to be this version of me that I thought I wanted to be.
And it was, it was always hard liquor. So it was always shots. So again, when I was going out with friends, if we would go out, we would pre drink. So we would have the hard liquor. We would have the shots. So we didn't have to spend money at the bars.
So it was always something that was really what's the quick buzz. And then obviously with that quick buzz, I realized that all of a sudden I'm laughing and I'm happy. So again, that is something I've always wanted to feel that happiness inside because there always felt like there was something inside of me that was wrong. And I couldn't understand what was wrong with me.
So when I had the alcohol, I would laugh. I would choke. I would dance. I would participate in things that uncomfortableness just wasn't there. So drinking throughout high school was a common thing. And again, it was always the weekends. It was never during the week.
And again, it didn't seem like there's anything wrong with it. As long as you keep it to the weekends, there will never be a problem with it. So I met my husband when I was 17. So I was very young at that point.
And then eventually life started moving fast for me. By choice, I got married at 22. I had my daughter at 24, and then I started a business at 25 with my husband.
So that whole busyness of life, again, I didn't know how to cope with any of it. So the weekend drinking always happened. And I would beat myself up because, of course, it was always binge drinking.
That's really what it was. I saved it all. Alcohol had so many jobs. I gave it so many jobs. It helped me relax. It helped me relieve the stress. It helped me have the courage. It helped me be social. It helped me feel that happiness that I so wanted to feel sober.
It helped me with anxiety. It helped me with loneliness. It pretty much helped me with anything. But I always kept it to the weekends. And again, there was never a question that alcohol was the problem. I was huge into reading self-help books, trying to figure out, okay, how do I fix
this feeling inside of me that I didn't know what it was. It just felt off. How do I fix my marriage? How do I fix my business? How do I raise my kids, fix my kids? I couldn't seem to navigate anything. So I always write up on everything. I try different things.
I did the Tony Robbins. I did it all. But the one constant was the alcohol. I never, ever first of all thought that that is something that it could be a problem because everyone does it. So if anything, I would beat myself up thinking, why can't I just have a drink or two? Why do I get too drunk?
Then I would prepare myself, okay, I'm gonna have a couple of drinks. I'm gonna cut off at three. Then if I didn't, then I would punish myself for that with all this guilt and shame and all of that. If I did, then the next time I would reward myself because I did such a good job,
So I thought that I watched everybody else and I'm like, if they can do it, why can't I? And I could never understand why I couldn't control that part. And I never again, I didn't think it was a problem because alcohol was never a problem in anyone's life around me. I was very confused at that point.
The other parts, you know, I went to the doctors earlier on throughout my marriage. Intimacy was something I struggled with personally. And I said, I'm struggling here. How can you help me? The advice that I was given was have a couple of drinks to loosen up and you'll be fine. Just enjoy it with your husband. So
drinking became for me to be intimate. I had to drink. That became something that I needed to do. That's what the doctor said. I wasn't happy, but again, I knew no different. I knew no better. So everything I think really started to ramp up for me shortly after COVID because during that time,
We were struggling with our business. I was already, it's years of just struggling in my life of this unhappiness that I couldn't figure out. The pressures were just getting to me and I would sit there and I would drink.
Then the next day I would be hungover. Then the following day I'd feel better again and I would drink again. So then it became during the week drinking. I found a reason to drink. We're having a meeting. We got a drink. We're going out for dinner. We need to drink.
celebrate drink, stressful drink. I arranged my meetings around the nights that I knew I was going to drink because I'd be too hungover for the next morning. It just started to feel like it was controlling me at that point. And I just did not like how I felt. I felt like I was losing control of myself completely.
That's when in 2022, the end of July, again, I was hungover and I said to myself, I can't live like this anymore. Something's wrong. And that's where I questioned, am I an alcoholic?
I know that alcoholism runs in my family. We have alcoholics in the family. Maybe that is my problem. And that's where I came across one of your Facebook ads about the alcohol experiment. And I decided, well, I'm going to try it. I'm going to listen. I'm not going to stop drinking, but I will listen. Let me see what it was. And that 30-day experiment that I did
blew me away with the knowledge because that's what I needed. I needed to understand what was going on with me. I learned through education. I have to understand why am I feeling the way that I am? Why am I behaving and doing that? I know that that's not the real me. I know I don't want to be like that or do that or say that.
But I felt like I couldn't control it, and I didn't understand why. I thought the company was the problem. I thought my husband was the problem. I thought everyone was the problem, not alcohol, and not me. And then I would go back to that, what's wrong with me? Maybe I am the problem. Maybe there is something wrong with me. Why am I not happy?
And when I did that 30 days, I really learned the science behind it all. I understood what alcohol does to you, to your brain, to your body. And everything all of a sudden was making sense in my life as to what was going on with my behavior. Now it was making sense.
And I realize that alcohol is a problem. It's the problem, not me, not Agnes. I'm not the problem here, alcohol is.
So I knew that I couldn't do this on my own. Well, I should say I didn't know I could do it on my own. I wanted that support. And of course, I couldn't get that support from any family or friends or anybody because I was too embarrassed. I was too ashamed.
So people did not know what I was doing and what I was really up to. So if I was struggling, I needed to be able to have that community where I could go to and not feel judged and they would understand.
exactly opposed to saying, oh, it's OK, just pace yourself. Or in 2020, I went to my doctors, and that was actually right before I found you any. And I said to my doctor, I think I have a drinking problem.
and his words which is a different doctor from years ago and his words were but you're so social like you have such a social life like it's always there like you just got to have a glass of water in between just tell yourself to have yet you're going to drink three glasses of wine because at that point wine was my drink of choice
pace yourself that way. And I'm like, how do all these doctors keep telling me like they're prescribing alcohol to me when I'm saying, no, it can't be that because it's not making me feel good. Then I am not happy with my behavior because what would happen is it would make me so happy.
But then I did not want that happiness to stop. So I would drink too much. And then the depression, the sad, the angry, all of those parts started coming out. And then I would black out and then I would completely beat myself up. I'm like, this can't be a way of living because I don't want to live like this anymore.
So what I did is I signed up for your path. At that point, you had your, it was a three month accelerated path that I went on. And I did not drink at all the whole time. The education that I got from that was
such a relief to me. It felt like I was understood, like somebody gets me. Someone understands what it feels like. Someone understands. But I understood. I think it was more about me understanding more than anything else.
because I could not accept myself for who I was and the unhappiness I had. But at the same time, I didn't know how to change it. I was very business-wide successful, financially successful. A husband that loves me to death that has never verbally, physically, sexually, no way abused me at all. Amazing children. I have that life.
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So after doing the path, the summer came along and I decided, well, you know what, I've been alcohol free for five months. Let me try to moderate. Let me see if I could actually do this.
because the summer was coming. So again, there was going to be a lot of social gatherings. We're traveling. And I did. I moderated for three months, June, July, August of 2023. Of course, I left it to the weekends again, back to the old patterns. Of course, I kept on telling myself, I'm going to pay attention. I'm only going to have a couple of drinks.
Most of the time I did offer drink. So it would have been just that one day either the Friday or Saturday night because then I would have been sick. Then I would beat myself up again. It was just that whole pattern. And then I was just getting all confused.
all over again. And that's where I realized, well, actually, at that point, I was going through therapy and my therapist said, have you noticed that since you started drinking again, you
have not been able to make decisions, the clarity's gone, the negativity, all of those old patterns are coming up. And that's exactly what was happening. And I couldn't believe that it did not take long for it to happen, to go back to the way that it was, how I was feeling inside. So I made that decision to stop drinking completely at the beginning of September of 2023.
and I've never looked back. I realized it has given me such a huge relief and has opened up so much for me in my life because it made me realize that having that clarity and not being so confused, realizing how alcohol, how number one, it's such a
And I've been told to go into antidepressants my whole life. I just chose not to because I drank, because alcohol shut off my brain. And that's what I really wanted. I just wanted my brain to be shut off, not realize how I was just making the depression even that much stronger inside of me.
work-wise not being able to make business decisions because I was confused all the time because of how it took those two to three days even more sometimes depending on how much I was drinking for my body. Like it was my body was working so hard to fight out all of those toxins that there was this
anxiousness in my body. How could I do it? I got to the point where deciding what to make for dinner stressed me out. Something so simple as deciding what to make for dinner or what to have for dinner. Because if I didn't want to cook, I would buy it. I couldn't even figure that out. And then all of a sudden I'm able to make decisions. I'm able to just be and
It wasn't easy, definitely not easy, but it was a commitment that I made to myself because I did not like the other version of me. And I wanted that inner peace that people talk about, that inner happiness. I wanted that love. I wanted it all. And I've learned how to give it to myself.
So nothing is the problem. My marriage is not the problem. It's amazing. My business is not a problem. It's amazing. Nobody is a problem. My friends are in a problem. My friends, all still, everyone drinks around me. I don't have an issue. That's not the problem. And that was another fear that I had because all that I knew is
If you're gonna stop drinking, you have to change your whole life, meaning you gotta change your friends. You gotta possibly change your husband, possibly change your work. You gotta make all of these changes that you can't have what you're having if that's your choice and that's what you want. That that's not even an option.
that you have to change at all. And what I realized is that's wrong. You don't have to change any of it. If you don't want to, maybe you do. Maybe you need to. But I didn't. None of that was the problem. But mostly I wasn't the problem. Alcohol was
the issue for me and without it, I'm able to be happy and make decisions and have that freedom that I could be anywhere with anybody drinking, not drinking, and I'm truly happy. That's just awesome. So how has it been socially just not changing everything and going and navigating some of these social situations?
That was the hardest part for me because the desire, I didn't desire it. It's all over my house, alcohol is just everywhere. So the social part was the hardest for me because I didn't know how to be social without it. So for me, what worked was the path, was the snake in mind because I learned different tools.
that I needed. And if one didn't work, I learned another one. And I was able to get the coaching that I needed to navigate different situations and get a different perspective of things. For me, that was the most important. And I've done weddings, like I've done a lot of firsts already. Again, they were all challenging all of them. So I'm not going to say that it was easy because it wasn't.
But it's the initial uncomfort. And I think that that's really what it was. That was the biggest hurdle for me. It's like my body feels that anxiety. And I don't know how to calm myself down. I'm feeling it. And then that's where right away I would go to the drink.
Whereas now I just breathe it through like I know I will get past it. I'm not afraid of feeling any emotions at this point.
So I would do visualizations. That was a huge one for me. Look at it, prepare for it, plan it out, having a drink in my hand at all times, not going into why I'm not having alcohol. Because again, that was a scary thing. People are going to ask, so are they going to think that you had a problem? But being able to, oh, I'm just
Whatever the reason may be, depending on what kind of relationship I had, I'm the designated driver. I'm not interested right now. That was a big part as well. So it was different. It was really, it was the tools, just finding all these different tools that I could use. It's a skill set that you learn. So once they come in, it just becomes natural. You just figure it out. And once you're able to navigate at once,
you'll be able to go back to it again when you need it. What do you think is the difference between doing something for the first time without drinking versus doing it for the second or third time?
Oh my God, it's become so much easier because once you do it once, you know you could do it again. So you're building that confidence in yourself each time you do it. I had to learn how to go out for dinner without drinking because I don't remember ever going out for dinner without drinking ever. That was a hard one. Being able to navigate that and also doing it while everybody else is drinking and you're the only one not.
But I did it the one time, the second time I already knew what to expect. So again, it's that we worry about the future, everything is unpredictable. We don't know. So we build up the same society inside.
And that's where I would cave where it's like I went through it. Okay, I know I'll get through it again. And now I don't even think about it. It just doesn't even happen. It's so interesting because that
First time, we have all of the past along with us, all of the past times that we've done that specific thing with a drink, and all of those past times have created this neural connection. There's a principle in neuroscience called Hebb's Law, and it just means that neurons that fire together, wire together, meaning when you do the same thing repeatedly, you actually create
Pathways in your brain that say, hey, this is what we do. So you never had experience going out to dinner without drinking that pathway in your brain about, hey, this is not normal. This is not safe. This is not what we normally do is very, very strong that first time. And it's interesting because.
things aren't necessarily dangerous because they are actually dangerous, but they often feel dangerous to us because they're not familiar. So now you have this experience that doesn't feel familiar, which is just as simple as going out to dinner and not drinking alcohol, but it feels very unfamiliar to the brain because you haven't done it.
in your memorable future. And you have this wiring, but the great thing about it is if you do it one time, that connection is broken. And so that second time gets markedly easier, like surprisingly easier. And I think one of the things that stops people is because the first time feels hard. And so we think, oh, it's always going to feel hard, or it's only going to get a little bit easier every single time. And that's just not true. It gets
a thousand percent easier just the first time to the second time just because that pattern has been broken.
Yeah, I totally agree. Well, I've lived it. So yeah, I've noticed that and I've felt that with anything that I've done when it comes to that. It's amazing how quickly you can reprogram parts of your brain, but you just need to understand what exactly it is that you want to reprogram to something different and not being afraid to do it.
Yeah, exactly. To do that the first time. To use the visualization, to use the techniques, to use all the tools to get through it the first time. And then amazingly, especially if you're not retaining the desire to drink outside of fitting in socially, that second time can be so much easier. So have you noticed any ripple effects in your social life or in your family? People noticing or taking notice?
Yeah, I have, I've noticed, I just feel that it's just impacted everyone around me in the sense that I feel like it's given my kids this freedom knowing that mom's okay, mom could take care of herself.
opposed to me going through these depressions, isolating myself, drinking, and all of that, but also that it's all possible and it's possible to stop and still be social, and it is possible to do all these other things.
anytime people see me, they can't believe that I'm not drinking. They feel like I'm just glowing and that there's this positivity and this lightness and I've never had those kinds of comments before. We were in Portugal this summer and we were at a wedding.
And the bride and groom are their cousins. And they were just like, are you sure Agnes is not drinking? Because I just kept on dancing. I love to dance. I never realized that I'd never. There's no way I would ever go on a dance floor and dance if I wasn't drunk.
And now I'm dancing without any any alcohol, but it's such a big difference for people that haven't seen me go through this journey, that they can't believe that it's true and that it's even possible. So I just feel like just being me
I am showing them that anything and everything is possible. If that's what you choose for yourself, it doesn't need to be, I never considered a that never would have been an option like I just didn't. But again, I'm not an alcoholic. I'm not. I was never an alcoholic.
I gave alcohol my drug. That was my drug. And people use different things. People use food. They use TV. They use a zillion different things as their drug, as their way of tuning out of numbing, whatever it is. I used alcohol, but what I feel like
what people are seeing is, especially my immediate family and friends, is they're seeing that it's okay to feel whatever it is you're feeling. It's okay to be sad. It's okay to be angry. It's okay to be scared and worried. It's okay to be all of that and you don't need to numb it.
You just need to learn how to sit and go through it. And I think that that also has just given people a freedom to be themselves because we are the biggest critics of ourselves. We judge ourselves. And boy, did I judge myself.
And I felt everyone was judging me. And I think that once you understand how the mind works, and then you understand the impact of alcohol and how it affects your mind, then you realize, is that something of use for me?
And I needed it, clearly, to get through. I felt I needed it, but it has absolutely no purpose in my life at this point. Will it ever? I can't see that ever happening. I'll never say never, but I can't. I am so happy to be 100% conscious and aware of all of my thoughts and feelings that I never
want to numb them again. I never thought that I would ever say that or feel that, that I don't want to numb my brain. What do you think have been the biggest internal shifts for you for you to get to that point? I have to be very open and honest with myself. I really needed to dig in deep and find out why, why I was turning to alcohol.
I needed to really learn how to have my own voice to find that worthiness for myself. It was all about looking inside and the things that I needed for myself, opposed to the outside and what everything and everybody else was going to give me. And I think the biggest one is to learn to trust myself.
Trust that I'm making the right decisions for me. Learn that that gut feeling that inner knowing so I could make the decisions and know that you are the right ones for me. Once I was able to really start looking at those parts.
I was able to learn and to grow in that aspect and just become more confident. But I think the biggest one is I could trust myself. I know I'm going to be okay. And I know that anything I do is out of love no matter what it is. So I know your journey did not stop after the path. So what happened next?
Well, when I realized when I was doing that, again, I was searching for what purpose do I have in this world? You know, one of those questions that a lot of us ask ourselves and the coaching opportunity came up certification. So I decided that I want to be a coach. I am just so
thrilled to have this freedom and I just want to share it with the world and give it to show people that you can do this. You can do all of it no matter
what traumas you've gone through, no matter what your journey looks like, no matter what your choices are, your behavior does not define you. So if you're not happy with something, you can change it. And I decided that that's my calling is to be able to just
spread the word out there and help be guidance really because it's not about helping we're all capable of taking care of ourselves but it's being that guidance and support for others.
So I did get certified, so I did it. I completely believe in this naked mind, the alcohol. That was the first step. And then the second step is the ALP part of it, where it's really diving in deep into yourself. Because after you take alcohol out,
Now you have that freedom to learn about yourself and to be able to create the life that you really want. And that's where the journey has taken me. I believe that I'm happy that I did not make any kind of drastic decisions throughout my journey.
Because I did, I thought about them all, but I'm happy I didn't because they would have not been the right ones for me. Divorce would have not been an answer because I'm the happiest I've ever been.
leaving the business, like getting rid of it would have not been the answer. That's like even working for somebody, you know, we changed jobs thinking that we're so unhappy. But meanwhile, that would have not been the right answer. So I just feel like I was able to stick it through and believe and there was a part of me. I knew, again, when we go by our gut feelings, I knew that there was something bigger and better for me in this world.
And I was just too afraid to see it. And alcohol just blinded that. But once I got rid of that, I was able to see all of the different opportunities. And the second half of my life, I am creating it exactly the way that I want it, exactly the way that I want it.
just the idea of so much intentionality. And I really like the idea of looking at everything that we believe is the problem and the realization that it's not that the things inside of us need to be healed. And then our perspective on the whole world gets healed, something that I really appreciate that Brooke Castillo, who is a life coach says, she says,
that the most ninja thing to do, the most badass thing to do is to wherever circumstance you're in, internally make total peace with it before you change it. So even if that ends up meaning that you still sell the business or get that divorce or whatever the case is, when you make total peace inside, not only our chances are that you probably won't want to do that decision,
But you've done the thing that's the hardest, which is you've made peace with the reality, you've made peace with your circumstances. And then from that perspective, you're not changing to run away. You're not changing to escape. You're actually like, no, this authentically feels like a fit for me. And that's a really different place to come from for those bigger decisions.
Oh, that's completely how it is. Because in the drinking days, I would have second guessed every single decision I made. And I don't know where it came from if it was really what I needed to do or not needed to do. And then being able to work through my life experiences and learning about the fact that we have all of these beliefs
that we come by learning about what our blueprint is, what are all of our beliefs are, and that we can change those.
that where did they come from? Did they come from society? Did they come from our parents? Did they come from our friends? And then we could decide, do they serve us? Do we want the same one or not? Just knowing that you have options. And I think that is the biggest thing is for me, thinking that I had no options, kept me stuck and the options that I had,
I didn't like because they weren't positive ones, but now just being able to have that internally, that ability to know and make that decision and knowing that whatever the outcome of it is, it's the right decision. And I can handle it and I could deal with it, even if it is not the right thing.
You said something earlier that I want to bring back up again, which is such a powerful statement of just being unafraid to feel any emotion.
because that's the whole reason that we do or don't do something is because we're afraid of how it might make us feel in the future. Will we regret it? Will there be a bad outcome that we can't handle? Will it make us feel bad? Will we upset other people? And when you take that fear out because you're like, no, I'm willing to feel any emotion, then you can very consciously intentionally make the decisions that actually are most in line with what you really value instead of
your fear of whatever emotion could come. Yeah, definitely. And it just, it helps also just bring that whole piece inside. Like I've been able to find that piece, find that forgiveness, find that love for my parents. They did the best that they could with the tools that they had.
Their lives were a lot harder than...
than anything. And they did their best and just being able to find that forgiveness inside was a real healing part for me. And again, it's feeling that and it's okay to feel it without judging it or without feeling like you need to feel this way or you should be angry or you should be this, just allowing me to be with the way that I want to be.
which was a huge, huge part of my journey. I love that. First of all, if people are interested in finding out more about you and your coaching, where can people find you? So, my coaching business is called fieldessenshine.life. So, you could go on my website and you can find me there. Awesome. And where did that name come from?
Well, when I started my journaling one of the steps that I did on this two year journey that I am at the top of my page, I would write down good morning sunshine. So that has just stuck with me and there's just something about the warmth, just being light. It's just everything's okay. It doesn't need to be
Heavy and it just doesn't need to be hard. And it doesn't need to be now. It's really one step at a time. Yeah, there's plenty of time, plenty of space. We can let ourselves off the hook. We can take everything a little bit lighter. I really love that. That's great.
Well, if you were going to go back in time to you said something at the beginning, which was like you could not even imagine not drinking, not drinking was just not an option. And I feel like so many people still feel that way and still feel stuck there. But if you were going to go back in time to that version of Agnes and really tell her about what life is like now and what's opened up, what would you say?
Well, I would definitely tell her that there is absolutely nothing wrong with you. Nothing wrong with you because that was the numbing is what I wanted. So life is just, there's options. Don't give up, don't give up on yourself.
You will find your way and you will get that whatever it is that you're looking for and i'm so grateful that I never gave up and I found you I found this naked mind i'm very grateful for that but that's because I didn't give up.
I've really enjoyed just getting to know you and watching how you are very, very fearless and just like, no, I'm gonna, if it's the hard thing to do, that probably means I need to do it. And I really admire that in you. And you just go right into it and like, all right, there's something good on the other side of this. I'm gonna make this happen. And I think that tenacity of not giving up is just one of the characteristics of you that makes you really remarkable.
Thank you, Annie. And I think you're remarkable.
Well, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story. It's just such a powerful and brave story. And I know it's really just getting started with everything you kind of want to do and how you want to see the world change. And so I'm really thrilled that you came on to share it. And it's just, it's important, especially like people have lived through some pretty dark things and to not have those things define you and define that forgiveness.
a warrior journey. It's really, really remarkable. Thank you. Well, thank you for having me. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you're ready to see how this naked mind can help you on your personal health and wellness journey and want to learn more,
Go to www.thisnakedmindpodcast.com to learn what your next best step is. Again, that's www.thisnakedmindpodcast.com. We have all of our free resources, programs, social links, and more available for you there. Plus, if you have your own naked life story to share, you can submit it there as well. Until next week, stay curious.