Can I interest you in a sample of my melon balls? (with Tom Parker-Bowles and Henry Jeffreys)
en
January 27, 2025
TLDR: 'Jame' shares executive orders and discussion on fantasy fiction, bodily parts, cold meats, food history, wine, and the next book club pick 'Eight Months on Ghazzah Street'. Listeners can email in to join the conversation.

In this engaging episode of [Podcast Title], the hosts Jane and Fi explore various light-hearted topics before diving into a fascinating discussion with acclaimed food writer Tom Parker-Bowles and wine expert Henry Jeffreys about their new podcast, Intoxicating History. From the nuances of food culture to reflections on parenting and societal norms, this episode offers listeners a mix of humor and insightful commentary.
Getting Into The Groove of Monday
The episode kicks off with Jane and Fi discussing the common struggles of Mondays, especially during the gloomy period of late January. They share thoughts on how the end of Dry January can uplift spirits, hinting at the promise of February birthdays and lighter moods. Listeners relate to shared experiences of rainy weather across the UK, emphasizing the cultural and meteorological diversity of the island.
Key Takeaways:
- January Blues: Acknowledgment of the challenges of maneuvering through post-holiday January.
- Weather Discussions: The disparity in weather experiences across the UK, highlighting regional differences.
Navigating Parenting and Gender Norms
In a heartfelt section, Jane and Fi discuss the topic of "penis portions", referring to the outdated notion that men should receive larger food portions at family meals. This sparks a conversation about gender equality in meal settings and the unintentional biases that persist in society. It also raises awareness about the perception of women versus men in various roles, including that of mothers and homemakers, encouraging listeners to question traditional norms.
Highlights:
- Food Portions: An engaging exploration of how meal portions can reflect societal expectations of gender roles.
- Inclusivity in Conversations: Recognition of the diverse experiences within modern parenting, encouraging empathy and understanding for varied family dynamics.
Introducing Tom Parker-Bowles and Henry Jeffreys
The latter part of the episode features a captivating interview with Tom Parker-Bowles and Henry Jeffreys. They introduce their podcast, Intoxicating History, where they intertwine historical narratives with food and drink. The podcast invites listeners to consider how what we eat and drink shapes cultural experiences and ties back into notable historical events.
Insights from the Guests:
- Importance of Port: Henry makes a compelling case for port wine, discussing its historical significance and contemporary rebirth. While he acknowledges its heavy nature, he recommends lighter alternatives like Tawnies and emphasizes moderation.
- Culinary History: Tom adds depth to their discussion, sharing anecdotes about England’s enduring alliance with Portugal and exploring the culinary exchanges that have occurred over centuries.
Societal Observations & Humor
Throughout the episode, humor plays a significant role. Fi shares funny personal experiences, from dietary preferences to casual observations about the weather and parenting dilemmas. Jane engages listeners with quirky anecdotes and relatable disagreements about common life issues like food preferences.
Noteworthy Points:
- Cultural Changes: The rise of abstinence influencers and the shift in young people's attitudes towards alcohol consumption.
- Historical Reflections: Cromwell’s unexpected route to finding joy in drinking—blending factual history with entertaining whimsy.
Conclusion and Call to Action
As the podcast junction closes, Jane and Fi encourage listeners to think critically about social and cultural norms while also finding joy in shared food experiences and history. They express gratitude for audience engagement, mentioning the next book club pick, "Eight Months on Ghazzah Street" by Hilary Mantel.
Final Thoughts:
- Encourage Participation: Listeners are invited to engage with the show via email, prompting an ongoing conversation about the weekly themes.
- Endearing Humor: The episode concludes with a light-hearted tone, leaving the audience intrigued to tune in for the next one.
In summary, Can I interest you in a sample of my melon balls? offers a delightful blend of humor, cultural commentary, and engaging discussions on food, drink, and the shared human experience. Tune in to discover how history, laughter, and personal reflections come together in compelling and entertaining ways.
Was this summary helpful?
And the platform 13 and a half or 13 and three quarters or whatever, it's just I can't get there. Well, we're very strict with our platforms. We both like a round number platform. I find it confusing enough anyway. VoiceOver describes what's happening on your iPhone screen. VoiceOver on settings. So you can navigate it just by listening.
Books, contacts, calendar, double tap to open. Breakfast with Anna from 10 to 11. And get on with your day. Accessibility, there's more to iPhone. This episode of Offair is sponsored by Wild From Tears Travel. So, feet tell me, where's on your travel bucket list? Well, I would really like to go to much emptier places because I live in the heart of a beating city, so I think Mongolia.
Well, with wild frontiers travel, you'll see more with those who know the way. Want to go off the beaten track and away from all the tourist crowds? You got it. From wine tastings in Georgia to epic journeys along the Silk Road, wild frontiers provide unforgettable experiences in some of the most incredible places on Earth. What's more, with everything taken care of by the experts, you'll have the freedom to take it all in, and the freedom to never stop seeking.
So whether you want to travel solo or on one of their small group tours or with family or friends on a private tailor-made trip, you can visit wildfrontierstravel.com.
It's Monday. It's Monday. Is there anything good about a Monday in, let's be honest, late January? I guess it depends where you are in the world. I think there is, actually, because for a lot of people, dry January is approaching its end. It's already mentioned, I think, twice on the team.
We've got colleagues who are doing it. I've noticed an improvement in their performance. I just think you feel that you've got the back end of quite a hard work month most behind you. And then we enter the glorious month of February, which I know you don't like, but it's basically a lot of family birthdays. No, I've got family birthdays. I don't mind February. It's a very short month. It has the decency to be short.
March is alright. April I like. May I like. June's lovely. Yeah. See, see, it's not all bad. It's all coming round. Yeah, exactly. But we've had a horrible storm in this country over the weekend. Really, really miserable times, especially up in Scotland and across Northern Ireland. So if you're listening to us just piddle along with our chit chat, perhaps you're on your wind-up radio and you're removing some fallen trees from outside of your house, then forgive us because
for a tiny island, Jane, and islands around it. We just have the most astonishing differentials in weather, don't we? Because you can have a storm that sweeps across the north of the country, but not the south. It makes no impression on the south. But then, you know, when you go other parts, two other parts of the world, larger countries, they do marvel at the fact that we have such a difference between our north and south. Well, perhaps somebody can explain why we have such differentials.
I bet they can. Do you think we dissect a gulf stream or something like that? Oh, quite possibly. Yeah. It is true, though, that I can complain about the weather in the south to my parents in the north-west, who say, it's lovely here. That's it, it's smashing. But also, I wear cultural divide between north and south, where you then explain to people you're talking about in some cases, you know, London, to Birmingham's work.
But not very far. Not very far, no. And you try and explain to people that there's prejudice that may lie between those two places. But what? I mean, there's prejudice between different parts of the same city. I've never really understood that. Barking mad. Barking mad.
Anyway, thanks to all of you who bothered to email, I suspect we had such a bumper crop of emails over the weekend because the weather was shite and no one was going out. We did have a lot, didn't we? We had a very, very, we had a burgeoning inbox this morning when we opened it. Quick drama recommendation. If you enjoyed Borgon, and I think it's the best TV drama I've ever seen, have you tried state of happiness and Norwegian drama available on the iPlayer?
Personally, this comes from Pat. I've only recently found it, but I've now watched series one and two and put it right up there in the same calibre as Borgen. At first sight, the synopsis doesn't necessarily draw you in, but my goodness, it's a cracking good watch. And Pat was weeping buckets last night. It was so engaging. The amazing woman from Borgen crops up in, it's a prime target, the new vehicle for
young big-eyed Leo Woodl, the bloke who was in one day, who's eminently watchable. Yeah, I don't know. I just... Yes, it's her. It's her. Right, OK. And I could watch her in anything, so I mean, we'll give that a go. I think you should return to it. I really did. Did she ever become the Prime Minister? Yes, did she? Good things. Sorry, her spoiler.
No, I suspect she probably would. Yeah, no, she did. I loved all that corridors of power things. She was just so well-dressed. I really loved her relationship with her husband, because he was the more stay-at-home one. Right. Supporting her. And guess what? There was friction. What's there? Yes, there was, Jane. There was a lot of friction. Friction. Yep. But I think she's glorious. I should probably give her a name, shouldn't I? I'll look it up while you're doing a long email.
This is from Susan, who says, um, I do feel as if you and indeed all the other listeners are kindred spirits. I would love to come to see you two live. That's coming up, by the way. But my right here can't tolerate loud noise, so I don't in case it's too loud for me. OK, understood. But then she slightly takes us to task. And Susan, I get this, and thank you for pointing it out. I'm writing to say that lately you've gone all heterosexual. The experience, positive or otherwise of motherhood, how to what an condom, sex apparently only being about males and females,
Have you forgotten your many gay listeners, including women who are not mothers because they never wanted to become them but who nurture other people, animals or a garden instead? I want to feel included, so Susan. OK, I'm going to think about that and thank you.
I'm not sure it's really one of those things we can apologise for, because this conversation goes where it goes and we don't speak to each other on a Monday morning and say, let's have heterosexual week on offer. It just isn't like that, but I take what you're saying. I do take what you're saying. I completely take what you're saying too, but motherhood's available to gay fraternities and just having a little think about sex education.
Well, it's a bit of a thing more on sex education. Yes. In the non-heteronormative world. Yeah. Because you're right, all our funny stories were to do with carrots and condoms.
Well, what can we open it up to another world? Dare we? You see, actually, you've raised a good point. Yes, we dare. Yeah, we dare. And why not? Yes. OK, there's a tea towel. We'd all hang with pride in our kitchen diner areas. Gosh, we're going to have a lot of tea towels, aren't we? Good. Wish we had. Thank you. Are you anyway? Yeah, French Health Service and Violence coming in from Sandy.
I just thought I'd answer your question about the French healthcare system from yesterday. Here we go. Once you received a new raise, this very pertinent comparison, Jane Susan Garvey. Once you receive your Social Security number, you're covered by the system, which generally covers you for 70% of the cost of your treatment. For the other 30% you either pay or you take out top-up insurance, for example, to see your nominated GP it costs 30 euros. OK.
The Social Security will immerse you 70%. Do you know what that would be? About 2022? Well done, 21 euros. Oh, well done, Jane. Then you pay the rest and get reimbursed by your insurance. We don't have free healthcare for children or the elderly and for prescriptions you pay the price of the medication rather than a set 10 euros per item or whatever it is currently in the UK.
It is a complicated system as some doctors charge more and the social security will only reimburse a certain percentage. I'm having my gallbladder removed next week, good luck Sandy, and have waited since the end of November for this. It isn't all sunshine and flowers as there are huge gaps all over the country for GPs, dermatologists and other services. So that's very interesting.
And I'm just really surprised that some doctors are charging more. I mean, is that based on them believing themselves to be better in a relatively large city? Are there some doctors you would pay more to go and see? How are you finding out that they're better? I think this is really interesting. So would it mean that if you lived in an area that wasn't very affluent,
you would therefore get doctors who didn't feel able to charge as much, or perhaps out of a human decency had chosen to work in those areas. So therefore, we're not able to charge as much, or perhaps we're inexperienced, so go to areas where they are keener to hire doctors. There's lots of questions there. Well, contact a new, as they often say. A hundred percent. They don't. A hundred million percent.
Sometimes we think the NHS is in a desperate state and blah, blah, blah and it's terrible and there are better alternatives and then you hear about the nuances of these alternative systems and you realise that the perfect scenario doesn't appear to exist.
And Sandy just goes on to make a little point about violence and TV shows. I've just finished Derv the Jackal and couldn't believe the amount of killing in that. OK, it is a show about a sniper who's hired to kill people. But anyone who got it in his way was shot. I had their throat cut. It was just too much. And Sandy is enjoying my silly voices, Jane. And I thank her for that, because many people don't.
But Sandy, I agree with you. I think the thing about Dov the Jackal is in the original book, there isn't that kind of mass mutilation and killing wherever he goes. So it is just interesting that that's where we've come to.
Was it Frederick Forsyth? He was a sniper, but there weren't all of that, you know, the endless kind of, let's just get rid of somebody, here it comes, slash a throat, added violence to the
Well, they had to add an awful lot to the TV version, didn't they? Because they turned it into, was it 10? I didn't see it. I didn't see it. It was long, it was long. Wow, OK. So they had to give quite a lot of extra to it. But you know, it is...
It's so gratuitous, I worry that you start not to notice and I'm determined that I want to stay noticing the absurd amount of violence and just keep talking about it because I don't think people are turning to that kind of entertainment because of the violence. There are some people who want to see
Slaying's all over the place, but I don't think that's the mainstream audience chain. I think it's just kind of slipped in there a bit. Well, it's become mainstream, hasn't it? And we're supposed to just accept it. And the really terrifying thing is, as you say, we sort of do. Yes. But I think, you know, it would be good to just keep on a tip, really. Just Eddie Redmayne's in Day of the Jekyll, isn't it? Yes. And over the weekend, I noticed some of it must have been something I saw on my phone.
that Birdsong, the Sebastian Fox adaptation, is now on Netflix. So if you missed that or couldn't remember seeing it, it was a BBC series. It's now on Netflix. I've watched the first half. It's so good. It's really worth your time. And he's excellent in it, but everyone in it is excellent. Really, really worth your time. Just two episodes, both an hour and a half long.
Is there a lot of violence in that? Well, it's First World War. Yes. But there are ways of doing it. But the First World War. Yes. I didn't think it was gratuitous. And actually, I certainly don't remember battles. I don't think, let's be honest, to stage a battle scene you need more money than I think the BBC would have had, when they realistically made this programme. It's much more about his life before the war, before he became an officer, and he had this affair with an unhappily married French woman.
Oh, it just keeps going back to it. It's a beautiful book. Oh, I finished the book club book this weekend. Oh my goodness, I haven't even started. Have you not? Eight months on Gaza Street, Hilary Mantel. I cannot wait for the discussion about that. I cannot wait. I'm so grateful to whoever recommended that we read it.
But boy, there's a lot to say there. Well, there we are. Get on with it, if you haven't already. Did you... I was able to buy a paperback copy. Were you able to get one? I was, yeah. Thank you. They're out there, they're available. Yes. And your library will definitely have a copy of that. Definitely. There was... I think there was a bit of a run on them, and I don't know whether we've caused that, because my lovely local bookshop, I'll give it a name check, Broadway Books, they usually manage to get things in overnight.
And they had to actuate about two weeks for it, which we thought might have been because other people had suddenly been wanting it, because it's been out a long time. Yeah. So it's about... She wrote it about 20 years ago. Gosh, it's 20 years old, is it? I think so. I find that... I'm looking forward to reading it, because that could have... It's an ex-pat-existent story, isn't it? And I'm always really interested in it.
so-called, I remember doing an interview with a woman who'd been a trailing spouse and sent out abroad to follow a diplomat husband. Can also be a diplomat wife, of course. And, yeah, that was a particular set of circumstances. So this is absolutely... It's that, is it? It's in Jeddah. It's in Jeddah. It's in Jeddah. OK. Yep. And a lot of people don't come out of it well.
There are very few characters who do come out of that book well, actually. But there's loads to talk about. And I would say that I got about a third of the way through, and I thought, gosh, is this just layer upon layer of exactly the same thing? Because the plot doesn't move a pace. But I would say stick with it, because then it goes incredibly kind of basically. OK. Right. So if you're having doubts about eight months on Gaza Street, keep going. Yeah, keep going past six months. Yes.
This is from Anonymous, it's sent titled disgruntled romanticie fan. Onyx Storm is not about Dragon Sex. I think it was me who suggested it might be. It's romantic fiction set in a world with dragons, okay? There is one brief mention of Dragon's mating in the first book, but no graphic descriptions.
I mean, thank God. I mean, I'm just interested in the dynamic there. Well, I mean, with my motor skills, I'd have no... I mean, I would have died out if I'd been a dragon. There is, however, more graphic descriptions of consensual human relationships with sexy, brooding men who worship at the feet of the strong female protagonist, overcoming many hardships and zombie-like creatures to boot. For want of a better comparison, it's like pole dark, but with dragons and much sexier men.
In answer to your question about why these books are appealing, in a world where the news seems to get more and more depressing, is there anything wrong with a bit of escapism? Leaving this world for a fantasy land and following strong heroines who never need a man but find the perfect one anyway.
Right. I emailed previously, but I myself have had a rubbish year facing fertility issues in trying to start a family and such escapism, exactly what I need, she says. Get it? I'm sorry you're having a tough time with that. And enjoy. Enjoy your time in Fantasyland.
Nothing wrong with that. But don't you think that's a huge reason why when you read as a child you enjoy fantasy and escape. Because the world can seem a little bit hard work and you're always being told what to do and all that type of stuff. And Harry Potter definitely took off because kids could just lose themselves in something. And the perceived dangers in a world of imagination just aren't as frightening, are they?
No, because they're made up. They are made up, and I don't know. I don't think I've read a huge respect for J.K. Rowling, but I've never read a page of Harry Potter. Not even a page. No. Gosh, I tried one when the kids were reading it. I mean, I haven't made it all the way through one because I couldn't do that, muggles and...
Is that muggles, fuggles? Yeah, I don't know. And the platform 13 and a half or 13 and three quarters or whatever, it's just I can't get there. Well, we're very strict with our platforms. We both like a round number platform. I find it confusing enough anyway.
I like it to train station. The idea that there might be a hidden platform taking me to a hidden destination, that's more than I can bear. Houston has enough problems with that introducing hidden platforms. Yeah, I'm with you on that. It's all we need. Just on the subject of kids, I mean, it has been a really, really gloomy January here in the UK. And it just has felt like it's been dark for a very long time. We've had grey skies a lot, haven't we, over the last couple of months. But I have no idea if there's a certain, there's a speed at which
Some children walk to school that defies gravity, you know, and it's so slow How are you how are you still standing up? And there's just there are a couple of kids who walk past my My laundry room and in the morning, you know, I'm still in there very blow drying a sock or something like that
And there are a couple of kids who walk past at the same time every morning, and I just so feel for them. Their walk has been so, so slow. It's January. Will they be there now? It's lunchtime. Will they have made it?
I don't know, but I remember that dawdle. Do you remember that dawdle? You don't get to do it in adult life. You can't dawdle. Well, no. Slowly to work. Just as you tend not to skip in adult life, you also don't get the dawdling opportunity. The thing I really remember, and there are fixed positions that you'll never forget, is walking home on a Monday going past the graveyard for some reason.
And then remembering that because it was Monday, it would be cold meat for dinner. And just feeling that. Do you know what I worry about your brain sometimes? So you've walked past basically a lawn of cadavers. Yep. And you're thinking about cold meat. But it was just that clank in your brain where you think, oh, you know, it won't be anything I really like tonight. It'll be that really, I still can't do it. The combination of hot gravy and the cold meat should be banned.
That's what I'd bring. I'd make a law against it. If I was issuing a Trump-style executive order, it'd be the first thing I'd ban. Yeah. Well, one of the very few times I've been around to your house, Jane. You did so. Oh, not this again. He did so hot meat. Yes, yes. Hot gravy. Cold lettuce leaves.
Yeah, but I thought it was a nice adventure aside. I was just, I was boring my colleagues earlier, but I made quite a, because of quite a time consuming beef ragu yesterday. Oh, Christ, okay. And it just wasn't very nice. Oh, you put the effort in and you just think, oh, okay.
You know, I'm basically able to cook meat. Yes. And I have been making the most of it. And for years, I haven't eaten much meat, I realise, and I was probably healthier for it. Are you going to come into work, sweating beef? I have to go.
I need to just further away. Wean myself off it a bit because I've just been eating lots of butter beans and all of a sudden I've ventured back into the world of meat. Excellent. Well, that's all. Let's all look for a change, see if we can find one. We have had a couple of guests recently on the podcast who've really divided opinion.
And Julia Black was one of them actually, so we had an overwhelming cry from people to book her on the podcast when her name was first mentioned. I will just read out one from each camp if that's okay. Kate has sent one very much in favour of the way that Julia Black teaches her
It's an educational doctrine, isn't it? It's lights on learning, and it's about going with your child's curiosity, not about trying to go with your child through the current educational way of teaching, I think. Would that be fair to say? I think so. I mean, I have to be... Can I be completely honest? Yes. I didn't really get it. No, Judith, who's an education nurse, sent an email that said, what?
And this one comes from Kate. My son Max features in her book. Back then he was a sad eight-year-old boy who described learning as a form of torture. He was disengaged and refusing school and I was incredibly confused and didn't know how to help him. Max had thrived a preschool and I'd suspected he was quite bright.
over his teachers were reporting that he was struggling, it made no sense. I thankfully discovered Julia and she helped us discover Max's switches. She could see very early on that Max loved to draw, it should have been obvious to me, but I was too preoccupied with his maths and English scores. I'll never forget the first time I saw Max become lights on, that is Julia's philosophy. And afternoon when he realised that learning could be fun and he set out to design his own Pokémon world.
There were many more occasions during the three years we worked with Judah as he started to design his own characters and write the accompanying storylines. These were later created digitally and coded into animations. Thank you for having Judah on the show and helping to reach all of those children out there that need the lifeline as much as Max did.
But Sam says her dismissal, this is Julia Black's, of safeguarding concerns for children who were homeschooled, seemed to come from a place of such immense privilege and an extraordinary lack of concern for vulnerable children. She brushed aside concerns as if they didn't exist. The word salad and case study struck me as completely rehearsed sound bites
as did the fluency of response. Never have I heard such cult-like speech, none of it evidenced in more than anecdotal stories and a complete lack of reliable peer-reviewed evidence. While she clearly has influenced a number of middle-class parents whose children are perhaps struggling with a classroom environment,
Her use of language and repeated stock phrases suggested use of NLP language. I don't really know an NLP, neuro-linguistic programming. OK. I think, is it? Non-linguistic programming. And she's targeting the select demographic of parents no doubt at huge cost. I think more diligence is required before giving such an individual a platform and credibility from speaking on your show.
Well, thank you very much indeed for anybody who emailed in about that. I think what we do like to do is allow people to tell us their story and their perspective and whatever on the programme. We don't doubt for one minute that sometimes people won't agree and you're extremely welcome to get in touch with us and likewise if you do. So quite a lot of people I think we're just a bit concerned about the safeguarding issue. It's so prominent in our thoughts at the moment.
I think for all of the right reasons. And Judea Black answered the question how she wanted to, so I hope that's OK with everybody. What is that legal phrase about... I laid my excuses and made it. When the bishop talks... No. Just because a guest appears on the podcast, all the radio programme, it's not an endorsement, necessarily, is it? No, that's very true. It really isn't. This is about...
Something I'd never heard before but I'd rather like this penis portions. I was catching up with last week's episode, says somebody who'd like to be called Jenny and I heard Fi talk about portion size. I too find portion sizes frustratingly large and often find myself asking for less than they would normally serve.
I was wondering though if you'd come across the concept of penis portions. This usually happens in family meals whereby the man, or by virtue of being the possessor of a penis, is served a larger portion than a woman, who's expected to subsist on a tiny slice of meat and a single boiled potato. This happened in my family growing up, although as my dad did a manual labour job I can see why, but there was always an undercurrent of misogyny to it.
My most recent experience of this was at a wedding. And I can't believe this. The men at the wedding were served a delicious looking chocolate tort. This is for pudding. And the women got a fruit salad. It's dreadful. A cop does that happen?
Well, so I think the email goes on to explain that you were meant to then share it together. I'm not knocking fruit salad, says Jenny, and many might prefer it. Not me. But I would have liked the choice. According to the menu, the idea was for couples to share the food and therefore their love.
Great idea, I suppose, but my ex-husband, emphasis on the ex here, refused to share it as it was his. He just didn't want fruit salad. I'm also not sure what happened to those in the same sex couples. Or what would I have been expected to do if I'm single? Should I have launched myself at the nearest single man and demanded that I get to nibble his penis pudding? Well, he could have a sample of my melon balls.
Or just leave. In protest. I... I'm quite shocked by that. Yeah, I'm very shocked by that. I just think that's horrendous. I mean, I suppose... And if you're going to do it, at least... You know, maybe you could have done it the other way right now. Exactly. If you're going to do it at all. Yep. But let people at a wedding, you know, just... I know it's going to go for a fruit salad anyway. Did you ever have that thing in your household when a roasted bird was placed on the table and there was a bit of a kind of...
and family thing, tradition about who got what bit. Oh yes, yes, there's always someone saying I'm a breast man. Oh, Cheryl, you're so funny. That's the second executive order that I would sign if I were ever a dictator, is to stop that kind of thing.
But it's because, to be perfectly honest with you, when it comes to chickens, I'm a breast woman. Always have been. I don't like dark meat on birds. No, no. But it's quite weird, isn't it? And also just a little bit macabre of that. Yes. I mean, we did have that in our household, too. But it's just a bit odd. Yeah. Like, can we just own it? Can we just men just stop saying that? We don't care. OK, you've made the gag.
It's actually something that is really beginning to rile me now, is when people who don't like our current Chancellor of the Exchequer refer to her as Rachel from accounts. It's not a gag they've invented themselves. They've read it somewhere else. She went to Oxford. She knows more about economics than you, Ron, in car-shelton. So, shut up! And there have been some previous chancellors who don't seem to have known one end of their abacus from the other.
It's exactly. We don't do politics on the pod. Yes, we do. Oh, we do a bit. Yes, we do. So there's something so strange going on at the moment, just about. So Donald Trump and Keir Starmer, they've had a successful phone call. I mean, I don't know what makes for a successful phone call.
But anyway, good on them, so they haven't come to blows on the telephone yet. But in the background of all of this, Donald Trump appears to still be saying he's going to invade Greenland, which is why we need to hear from our... I don't know if you have any listeners in Greenland, I think we might have in Denmark. In Denmark, I was just going... Yes, well remembered, because we've got a Danish correspondent, self-appointed Danish correspondent, it would be great to hear from you. Please tell us what you think about that.
But you just think, well, I mean, anyone can have a successful conversation if you leave all of the controversial bits out. So it's, hello, how are you? I hope you're doing OK. Isn't the weather great? That's marvelous. See you soon. Lots of love. Take care. Goodbye. Yeah.
But there's some other stuff. I've got to talk about the idea that we're fine now. They've had a quick chat. We're fine. I'm not sure we are, Jane. I think the sensors were doing some heavy lifting there. Yeah. I think we know that the conversation he had with the Danish prime minister didn't go quite so well. But then do you know what? She's got the temerity to be female. It was described as horrendous, wasn't it? Yes, by by some. I mean, who knows?
So, yes, if you've ever had, we should do a point actually. What would the readout from a phone call be like if you've had a tricky conversation, but then you need someone to translate it into Diplo speak afterwards. And yeah, you can just miss out all the bad bits, can't you?
Yeah. Right. I've just got one I wanted to do here. Hang on. This is a difficult question from our regular correspondent, Marie, about understudies. She went to see the recent adaptation of Dr. Strangelove with Steve Coogan playing the lead. Now, I didn't see that, but I was quite tempted by it.
He was quite brilliant, says Marie. A couple of friends liked it so much they went twice, but the second time, Coogan was ill, and his understudy was called in. My friends were gutted because they'd expected Steve, and they were a bit thrown when told he'd lost his voice. They thought about leaving, but decided to stay anyway, and it was a blessing, because it soon became apparent that the understudy was actually better than Steve Coogan, not just better, way better.
They were surprised. OK, so Marie then goes on to ask who would you choose as your understood? It's an impossible question to answer, isn't it? It really is. Well, I mean, it's very, very true to say. I think Nikki Campbell always used to say this, that you never want somebody standing in for you who's better than you, but you don't want someone standing in for you who's so rubbish they lose your listeners. It's a very tricky tightrope to be walking.
Basically, broadcasters and podcasters rarely take time off. Because, quite frankly, that's the nightmare, isn't it? That somebody better comes along. That somebody infinitely better comes along. I know. Oh, and Debbie regularly likes to take us to task, and she's back for you, and we're both in the dock here. What have we done, Debbie? When you talk about Mark Zuckerberg and Joe Rogan discussing masculine sports, you said, not for the likes of you and I. Now, it could have been either of us. Oh, dear. Would you say, not for the likes of I?
Please remember the rule where you take the other person out and then see if it makes sense. You're as beseechingly and increasingly frustratedly Debbie.
Well, both Jane and I have taken that on board. I got that right. I really had to think about it. Jane and I, so take care. I've got that right. Me's got that right. Yes. Me's got that right. Me has. Me has. Oh, Debbie, we're putting a hair out, so I'm sorry about that. And Jill's in Bodley, Salterton. Am I alone in Wonderland?
I don't know whether she means wandering, but she's, I think, rather like the fact that she's put am I alone in Wonderland about the coincidence between the planet's alignment and the bad weather, also bringing in major disruptions such as Trump. It's the view from Bodley Sultan, and I think Gaia might be having a bit of a moment.
I think we're wrong to dismiss the, you know, the actions of the gods. I would quite like to have lived in the Greek polytheistic society, where everything that came from above was a poor tent, Jane. Can you mention that at society again? Polytheistic.
Meaning many Goded. Yes. So, you know, the river had a garden, the sea had a garden, war had a garden, woman had a garden, fertility had a garden, and you worshipped each individual God. But they sent you signs all the time. So you were looking to the skies or the river or your womb for signs of whether or not you were right to do things and stuff. I think it just would have been quite
I don't know. I would quite like that guidance. Quite a specific level of guidance there. I think I would have enjoyed it. Other elements of the Greek world, not so much. OK. I think you've covered everything there brilliantly. There's a lovely bit of balance there at the end. Let's bring in. So if anybody ancient Greek is listening, you can let us know how it really was. Back down, back down there. Well, I mean, just men. Men just got it all. They got absolutely got it all. And they got to wear the skirts too.
I mean, that really is outrageous. Mind you, the heat in Greece, you wouldn't want to be in a trousers. The train is now approaching. Junction, at platform, passenger. Airport, please stay on board. Next stop, road station. iOS helps you control which apps you share your exact location with. There's more to iPhone.
Right, let's bring in our guests, Henry Jeffries and Tom Parker-Bolls. They are hosts of the podcast, Intoxicating History, in which they take audiences on a journey through time, one drink at a time, and some quite hearty meals stuffed in there as well, I should say. Now, Henry worked in the wine trade. He's the author of a number of books, including Empire of Booze, and one of our English wine called Vines in a Cold Climate. Tom, you will probably recognise as the food editor of Esquire, restaurant critic for the Mail on Sunday, and his book is called
cooking and the crown. Welcome to you both. Tom, Henry, good afternoon to you. Good afternoon. Absolutely. Thank you for having us on. Great pleasure. Now, can we start with you, Henry, and your love of port? I was listening to the episode about Portugal and everything it's done for us. And you go into great detail about port, but I've just got some terrible memories of the morning after a night in which port was consumed. Please make the case for port, Henry.
Well, the problem with port is it's just too delicious, I think, but it's also too strong. So it's 20% whereas your normal wine is 12 or 13. And then here it's the end of the meal. You know, you've had quite a lot to drink. The port comes out and before you know it, you've had free glasses and then the next day you really feel it. So I completely understand why people can be a bit wary of port. But it's not really the port's fault. I think it's the time when we drink it at the end of a long meal.
And if you find port a little bit heavy, you can get this stuff called Tori port, which is it's a little bit lighter in color. It's a little bit lighter in flavor. It's a bit more refreshing. You can drink it chilled. So yeah, I think just you just have to treat port with respect and then you'll get more out of it.
All right, well, I should take that as a lesson, and I will never behave that way again. Tom, this is an intriguing concept, this podcast, because it is history, and it's food and drink, and most of us love all three. So, tell us about England's relationship with Portugal, because I think, are they the oldest allies in Europe? Is that right?
Well, very much the old ally. I come into the podcast as very much the useful idiot because it's in skating history. It's about history through the bottom of a glass. So my so-called expertise is in food. Henry really knows his stuff. But yes, I sit and learn.
And I didn't know about Portugal, the long relationship between the Portuguese and the British. And it's been going on for a bit. They've been, you know, Henry would agree. They have been one of our oldest, oldest, oldest allies and still are. And going back to your views on port, I have also particularly sort of heavy-headed, throbbing hangover memories of port. But having tried a lot of the new ones, the tourneys and the non-vintage, my mind and my palate has been turned. Oh, really? OK. So there's a sensible grown-up way to do port, is there?
Well, I just remember, at the end of a rather long, heavy dinner, drinking this quite sweet, heavy drink that seemed a good idea at the time, but, as you said in the morning, not such a good idea. So there is a completely, there's a fresh, modern, thrusting style of port that bears little relevance to the admittedly delectable, vintage styles that other people might know about.
Now, one other thing I learned from the podcast edition about Portugal was that Oliver Cromwell liked to drink. Now, I was stunned by this because I always assumed he was an absolute T-total so-and-so, but apparently not. I don't know which one of you wants to discuss Cromwell and his boozing. Well, Cromwell apparently got really drunk at his daughter's wedding and was like dancing on the tables and having a merry old time. I mean, it's the funny thing about Puritans is they weren't very keen on the theatre.
They didn't like Christmas, but actually they were fine about drinking. You know, as long as you didn't, well, you know, actually Cromwell took things a bit too far, but generally, as long as you didn't take things too far, then they were fine with drinking. So the kind of Puritans, you know, there's quite a lot of drinking in the Bible. I think at the time the Puritans just took everything from the Bible. So they thought,
Jesus drinks wine, we can drink wine. Yeah, just looking at my colleague, you don't like theatre or Christmas, do you? No, I was just thinking I don't like thrusting port either. I wonder, Tom, whether you can tell us about whether or not you think you might be susceptible to a group of people I've been reading about today, abstinence influencers. Now, some quite worrying statistics, if you are certainly an alcohol manufacturer or you're on a pub, that so many of Britain's young people are turning away from alcohol. What do you think about this?
I think it's up to, you know, the individual far bit for me to start wagging things about why you should drink or shouldn't drink. It's entirely your own decision. I do feel that, you know, the idea of being an abstinence influencer, two words filming with utter fear. Not for the reason of not drinking, it's just the influencers by their very nature seem to spend their whole time taking photographs and videos and
and playing them to each other and being addicted to TikTok and Instagram and all the rest of it. But yes, this idea of dry January, I think moderation is a good thing. I try and keep off the booze Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, if I'm being particularly good. As I get older and sort of fatter, it realizes booze not only is bad for your liver, but it sort of
has lots of sugar in the rest of it. So, yes, absidence, influences. I don't think booze will disappear somehow. I think that you can drink happily and well and in moderation without having to, because that's my dog being on the shush, without having to, you know, broadcast it across all the social media channels and demand your dinners or whatever you get. Okay. So I have read an interview which you said, Tom, you'd considered a zempig. I'm surprised because you're not. You're not a big man or you're, and you also, you do pilates apparently twice a week.
I do. I also run on a horrible running machine. No, because you get older. I asked my doctor if I could have his epic. So I thought, this is fantastic. I can get a sort of gym fit body before going on holiday. And he told me in no uncertain words, two words, the phrase the second which ends with off. And that was that because there's a food critic. Obviously, I can't sit around feeling sick every time I eat food. So no, it's back to exercise and eating less, I'm afraid.
Well, I'm glad you've made that clear because there's no way I'm going to read read your reviews if I think you're on a Zen pick and you haven't enjoyed a morsel of it. I mean, absolutely not. No chance. Yeah. OK, Henry, what's your view on a Zen pick and the indeed the other drugs now apparently so widely available? Well, apparently the drinks, drinks industry are terrified. There was a thing, a thing about the stock price for Diagio dropping by 10% after after there was a story about a Zen pick
leading to people drinking less. So I think there is a sort of people are a bit rattled by the fact that it might lead to people drinking a lot less. But I feel like we've been kind of enjoying alcohol for so long that I don't think it's going to
It's going to go away. Well, I don't think, I mean, I mean, I mean, I think there's people listening to the podcast. No, I don't think there's any chance of you giving up booze to be perfectly. I don't mean that in a really nice way. Your book about the English vine, about growing wine, making wine in England, how good now are those sparkling wines made in the South of England?
I mean, the smartly wines just get better and better. I mean, they've been good for a very long time. What's really exciting is that the still wines are getting excellent now. You get some chardonnays that are coming out of Essex at the moment, and you would think they were burgundy. They are.
phenomenal, especially for a nice warm year, like 2022 or 2020. You get a good vintage Essex Burgundy is the future. This isn't some good red wines. So, yeah, I feel like English wine, even since I wrote the book, has just come on in leaps and bounds. I honestly couldn't be more excited. I don't know. Your colleague was laughing when you mentioned Essex Burgundy. So, Tom, what's the problem?
No problem at all. I just thought that 20 years ago, if you'd mentioned red wine from actually white wine from Essex, it would have been a huge joke. Essex Chardonnay and all the rest of it. But as Henry says, it's an incredible the quality now coming out of English wine. And sparkling yes, white yes. But believe it or not, some amazing reds as well. So global warming is an awful thing. But if you could look at it in a sort of measured way, it does have its advantages.
Yeah, well, as I'm sure you know, it's Britain's government's growth week. So if English, Hawaiian, can play a part in that, no bad thing. Tom, the best meal you've had recently, I don't know whether you've written about it yet, but the best meal that just went down an absolute treat. Gosh, because I'm so greedy and eats so many, I do find that I'd rather eat a boots meal deal with my friends and I would a kilo of caviar with a whole bunch of balls. I don't believe that.
It is the truth. It's set and setting, as in so many things. But I did eat some very good Italian food in a place called Canteen in Notting Hill, which is fantastic. Well-priced and very good indeed. Some fantastic Greek food and oma. I feel that it's not just London anymore. You can get all over the country. For me, Bristol is the second great food city of this country.
Yes, it's just, you know, my job is to look for the good stuff and share it with the readers. And so it's a happy and joyous job on the whole. And Tom, would you be prepared to share what is in your boots meal deal when you make that choice?
It would be a prawn mayonnaise sandwich with probable coat zero. And I don't know, actually, I'm not too hot on the boots. Can you get phasal or scabby fries at boots? I think not. No, I don't think you can. I think it's either Popchips or it's Walker's Crisps, isn't it?
Yeah, they've lost the world to live. Chris, they've lost the world to live. Among the quick things. They are actually their crisps on a Zempe, can't they? Exactly. There's no, they are. Chris Fonner said there is no joy there whatsoever. OK, and I have read that our late queen and indeed her mother and sister enjoyed this drink gin and du bonnet. Now, this is something I thought I knew about all three of them.
But I mean, can either of you tell me what is the impact of a gin and jubonne on anybody? Does anyone fit to rule a nation after a bevy like that over launch?
I think the late cream was made of much stronger stuff than I certainly am. She came from a generation who, you know, liked a cocktail and probably drunk, you know, in moderate terms, but their drinks were a bit stronger. I don't know what Henry thinks, but it's certainly a heart starter and a sharpener, a gin and good morning, but it probably takes you where you want to go. And tastes good as well.
Also, if you think about the sort of, you know, the people who used to rule the country when Britain was a great country, you know, going to pit the younger in Churchill, you know, they were drinking a huge amount and somehow we got through it all. So I think the problem probably is our leaders aren't drinking enough.
Well, sometimes when we look at our leaders, we all feel like a drink. Those of us who are still drinking. Anyway, I mean, leaders generally. I'm not specifying any particular leader. I need to be very clear about that. Thank you both very much for coming on. Tom Parker-Bolls and Henry Jefferies and their podcast, which manages to combine food, drink and history is out now. It is called, and I've completely lost my notes. Intoxicating history. Intoxicating history. Thank you, colleague.
That's quite all right, very much. I just love the notion of Essex, Chardonnay. No, Burgundy. Come home to mum, are they? It's just superb. I go so red in the face after wine of any description. I just don't think I'll be going there. I was surprised to hear you open that interview with your recollections of the night spent on Porteau. Do you know what that was? Don't, you're on air. It's university, all right, it's university as long time ago.
Well, 150 years ago, those people... They may still be photographs. I'll pay money for them. They're wrong. They're really armed. And I didn't go to Oxford or Cambridge. Let's make that clear.
Kieran says one should abstain from influencers. That's the abstinence influencers referred to in your opinion. 100% abstaining from all influencers. Yeah. Now, Jane has a very, very interesting anecdote about Tom Parker Bowles that I think she needs to share with the world. So off you go. OK, so it went like this. I was in a pub in West London and a man came over and asked if he could take a chair from my table.
and it was Tom Parker Bowles, so the exchange went like this. Could I take that chair? Yes, of course. Thank you. Good night, everybody. That's why people listen for celebrity gossip. I think I'm more than delivered. Jane and Faith, time's not really heavy.
Congratulations, you've staggered somehow to the end of another Off-Air with Jane and Fi. Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do do it live, every day, Monday to Thursday, two till four, on Times Radio. The jeopardy is off the scale. And if you listen to this, you'll understand exactly why that's the case. So you can get the radio online on DAB or on the free Times Radio app.
Offer is produced by Eve Salisbury and the Executive Producer is Rosie Cutler. VoiceOver describes what's happening on your iPhone screen. VoiceOver on settings. So you can navigate it just by listening.
books contacts calendar double tab to open breakfast with Anna from 10 to 11 and get on with your day accessibility there's more to iPhone
Was this transcript helpful?
Recent Episodes
Happy and (probably) lovely people (with Kate Mosse)

Off Air... with Jane and Fi
Jane and Fi discuss leg warmers, Fame, cleaning-porn, tiny feet; author Kate Mosse talks about 20 years of her best seller 'Labyrinth' and upcoming tour; next book club pick is 'Eight Months on Ghazzah Street' by Hilary Mantel.
January 30, 2025
Tax-dodging alpacas (with Nisha Katona)

Off Air... with Jane and Fi
Jane and Fi discuss socks for Americans, fallen women with fallen arches, family experiences, and Nisha Katona’s new cooking show on their maritime podcast. Also announced is their next book club pick 'Eight Months on Ghazzah Street' by Hilary Mantel.
January 29, 2025
Jane the Short Arse and Fi the Chunk of Calf

Off Air... with Jane and Fi
Jane and Fi discus Jane's fridge flanges, jury duty, Alexa, pet grief, and Nectar cards, accompanied by guest Dame Alison Saunders who examines the justice system. 'Eight Months on Ghazzah Street' is the next book club pick.
January 28, 2025
OFF AIR... EXTRA (with Baroness Scotland)

Off Air... with Jane and Fi
Jane interviews Baroness Patricia Scotland, UK's first black female QC and Secretary General of the Commonwealth, discussing her legacy, reparations, climate change, and new U.S. presidency. Next book club pick announced: 'Eight Months on Ghazzah Street' by Hilary Mantel.
January 24, 2025

Ask this episodeAI Anything

Hi! You're chatting with Off Air... with Jane and Fi AI.
I can answer your questions from this episode and play episode clips relevant to your question.
You can ask a direct question or get started with below questions -
What was the main topic of the podcast episode?
Summarise the key points discussed in the episode?
Were there any notable quotes or insights from the speakers?
Which popular books were mentioned in this episode?
Were there any points particularly controversial or thought-provoking discussed in the episode?
Were any current events or trending topics addressed in the episode?
Sign In to save message history