Building Wealth Is About More Than Just Math

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love.

and create actual amazing relationships. Jade Washall, Ramsey, personality. Number one, best-selling author is my co-host today. Open phones at Triple 8 825 5225. Marta is with us to start this hour. Marta's in Portland, Oregon. Hi, Marta. How are you? Hi, Dave. I'm doing OK. Good. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up? So I

And 57 years old, I've been married for 33 years and I've never managed our joint financials. But I find myself that that was a big mistake on my part and I need help with trying to figure out how to start out my finances. I have a house that's in my name and my husband has gambling problems.

that I just discovered and has been snowballing since I started discovering the problems. I signed a HELOG not knowing what I actually was finding. So I owe not $8,000 of that and haven't done taxes for years. So I know that at least I owe $10,000 out of

to the IRS on top of everything else I bought. Oh, because he was taking money of my retirement without my knowledge. And so that's going to come down the pipe for me and just overwhelm about how to get things. How do you find out? I found out a letter because, you know, he handled the mail. He handled everything. I opened a letter and it found fidelity and found out that he had borrowed

money from there. And I confronted them about it. And that was last year. And he said, um, he was paying and he did pay it. And I told them not to take any more money. Uh, but he continued to do that. Not only that, but he had taken money prior years and he never, um, told me that he's got 10 counts because he also stole money from a nonprofit that he was the trucker. Are you still together? Unfortunately, just because

And people say I'm too nice. Um, well, it's getting that divorce is going to be very expensive. And so I'm trying to get my finances in order. He's just delusional. I think you're just biting. Are you just biting your time? Is that what that amounts to? You're trying to get your finances together so that you can get out of this marriage. Or are you guys going to counseling to see if you can solve it? Oh, no, we did counseling. He was not.

there. Yeah. I mean, I've been begging him to do things and he. Okay. So let me make sure I understand where you are then. I'm sorry. What a heartbreak. Um, yeah, you're, you don't know, you don't know what's going on. And that's terrifying. And, um, you got 33 year marriages ending. And that's terrifying. Am I understanding you correctly to say you are saying you're going to end this?

I am. Yes. I'm done with it. He's not. He thinks. Well, it's not up to him. You can. And Oregon, you can file for divorce. You're allowed to do that. Right. Yeah. So do you work outside the home? Oh, yeah. I'm a nurse. So I. So where is the money go that you make? Well, it was going to a joint account. I finally. OK, so it's going into your you change this going into your name now. Yes. Good. How much is in that account?

Right now there's about $11,000. Okay. When you hang up the phone, I want you to call a divorce attorney and schedule an appointment for tomorrow. Mm-hmm. Please. You keep thinking you're going to wake up and this is all a bad dream.

And I'm your old ugly brother that's telling you, it's not. It's your reality and it's unbelievably sad. It's unbelievably scary, but it's going to get worse every moment that you don't deal with this. You do not have to do anything except pay a retainer, get a lawyer and file for divorce right now.

Okay. I did see one and, um, at the time, I didn't even have the money for their routine. Now you do. Yeah. Okay. Is that the one you're going to use?

I don't know yet. I only saw one and he told me he's been invited and you want. I don't care what he thinks. He no longer has a vote. He gave that up when he stole money from a non-profit, when he stole money from his wife, when he had her signed documents that she didn't know what she was signing. This is a full raging lunatic addict who has no boundaries

And it's going to burn the house down around you if you stand there and watch it and ignore the smoke. Please, darling, for your sake while there's still something left.

Get an attorney and get him around the throat and shut down all of the financials. Shut down everything. So he has no concept of anything. Move it all out from under his care until his attorney and the court makes you put it back. It's time for you to get very aggressive, to try to salvage what you can for the next chapter of your life on.

Marta, who knows about this? Are you going through this alone or do you have some folks around you? Oh, no. I mean, I have friends that I'm going to counseling. My kids know, but I mean, he took, what, $60,000 from my son who's married, has two babies saying he was going to pay it back. He had a

a business that went bankrupt and I'm just kind of. Yeah. This has been done a long time and you've ignored it thinking it was going to get better on because you're a sweet person. But listen, you're killing yourself here. Okay, please, please deal with this.

Okay. Now, this is your big brother that loves you talking. Okay. Do it now. Okay. Quit screwing around with this. It's not going to, if he suddenly gets healed, gets lightning bolts struck from heaven and changes, we can always come back and talk about that later. But right now, everything you have told me in the last few minutes, screams emergency.

Yeah, well, he thinks he's doing better, but honey. I don't care what he thinks. He lost his vote. And there's no proof of that. Every time you tell me something about him, it's where he stole something or took something. It's your entire description of your husband. He's a raging gambling addict.

and there's no fix for that. We work with addicts all the time. The only fix for that is to break the cycle, and this guy is not interested in breaking the cycle. Addicts can get better, but 100% of addicts are master manipulators and they are master liars. He'll make you think this is your fault.

Oh, yeah, he does make me think that that's part of that's part of the addiction. Okay. And there's only one thing you can do with this and that's get distance. Financial distance, physical distance, housing distance, call that attorney back or call an attorney today. And please don't take action on this. It's not going to get better. This guy's an abuser.

Well, I'm so sorry. What a heartbreaking thing to deal with. Yeah. Fastest growing addiction in North America today. Online porn. Second fastest growing addiction. Gambling. We're seeing in our financial counseling offices those two things destroying more families than anything else. Thank you to the internet. This is the Ramsey shot.

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Millions of people have changed their lives because of a Dr. John Deloney book or a total money makeover book or a jade wash-off book like money is not a math problem You know jade and her husband paid off over four hundred and sixty thousand dollars in debt a lot of it had to do with shifting their mindset and

about money. Money's not a math problem is what that's about. It's one of our quick reads, Rachel's wallets, John's questions for human cards. Man, it's all there. Check it all out. Black Friday deals abound at RamseySolutions.com slash store. If you're listening on YouTube of the podcast, you can click the link in the description and go straight there. Paula's in Canada. Hi, Paula. Welcome to the Ramsey show. Thank you very much. Sure. What's up?

I have a question about adult children and financially helping them out what my obligation is because I hear lots of people trying to help out with weddings or education and that sort of thing. I'm at a point in my life now where I actually, I can do it. But am I obliged to do it when they've shown that they aren't financially responsible themselves? No. And how do I make it fair when there's five of them?

What is it? Who would oblige? You mean morally or spiritually obliged or culturally obliged? I mean, who obliges you? Well, you know, when they're at a point where they'll have a baby to get in there, you don't just spend all time. I know what you're talking about. I'm asking, you said, am I forced obliged as a sweet way? Am I required? Is what you're saying? Who's required? Who requires it?

I guess I feel that they require it when it comes to fairness. That would be called entitlement. That would not be called. Matter of fact, Paul, I have a new requirement. You need to send me some money. Here's my address. Who gives a crap what someone else requires, right? Who is it that wants it and what do they want? Well, I don't know if they want it as far as trying to treat them fairly. You know, when there's five of them and one sees that I've spent money on one or the other,

trying to help them out or spending money on weddings or having babies. And then the other ones think, well, why isn't she giving me money or why isn't she providing me gifts? You know, and I'm going to point my life where I can do it, but I also want to be able to travel and enjoy my retirement and that kind of thing when I don't know how to make it fair between the five of them.

So I do think that that's an interesting question. I've got two kids and it would be strange of me if both were good kids, if I paid for one wedding, but didn't pay for the other. I could see why they would say, well, what's the difference? You've got five kids. That's a lot more. Is there something going on that's making you say for child number one, I'll do this, but for child number two, I won't. And here's why. Is it a behavior thing? Is it a?

I think so because one of my children is to have a baby and another one is in is having a baby again soon and I spent all sorts of money on one wedding but not the other and why and we're saying why not the other right and one of my children is financially being irresponsible and I do want to help them but the any other sense like can I help them with stipulations like

I don't want to give you cash because you're going to waste it. Back to change question because I'm not sure I heard the answer. If you paid for one wedding but you didn't pay for the other, why? You decided that. Why was the one that you didn't pay for being irresponsible? And so you didn't want to fund it. What was the reason for the differences? I think it was more of some of them have had the big splashy weddings and then others of them haven't chosen

to have the big splashy wedding. So do I. So they wanted the money instead. Yes, exactly. OK. All right. And you just you felt like paying for the wedding was OK, but you didn't want to necessarily be to fund everybody the same amount.

Or how do you make it equal? You know, if I'm spending $5,000 on one wedding. Well, if it's your money, I think you get to set the premise. If you say, okay, for each of you, this is the budget and that's what it is and you make it fair. I mean, they, my point is they don't get to decide what you give you get to decide it. Okay. Yeah. But if you've already gone down the road,

Yeah, I'm kind of stretched between two different things in this and I don't know exactly where to land. I mean, we told our kids growing up, there is no fair. Fair is where the tilt to whirl is and the cotton candy is. We're not socialists, we're capitalists. There's not fair. Okay. So that's how it works. Things don't work out. That's just the way it is. And I don't get to decide all of the what life treats you fair or doesn't treat you fair, but fair is a joke.

fairs only by communist college professors there's no fair okay uh... welcome the real world now that's what we thought that's one one cents i don't have to do it equal cuz our family's not socialist on the other sense i don't want to scar one of them and make them think there is a

Unless I'm refusing to fund their misbehavior, I mean, if one of them has a splishy wedding and one of them doesn't and the one that doesn't is doing heroin, I don't want to give them the same amount of money. Well, that's not fair. I don't care. That's not going to fund misbehavior. But on the other hand, if there's no differences in their behaviors,

It feels a little weird that they're not getting the same amount of money. So no, you're not obligated, but I'm just thinking through with you the emotional and the relational parts of the discussion. You are not obliged.

Period. It's your money. You get to decide, I don't get to tell you what to do with it. They don't get to tell you what to do with it. You can just look at someone and say no, and no is a complete sentence. But from a relational standpoint, if there's not a reason for differentiating, that would give me as a dad concern. I can see how that would cause you a problem. If there's a reason, like a misbehavior for differentiating, I can lean into that real easily.

and i do think it's fair to say uh... let's say you have ten thousand dollars to put towards the wedding i think it's fair to say i have ten thousand dollars for your wedding but if one of them says i don't want the wedding i just want the ten thousand dollars i think it's fair to say no the ten thousand dollars is for the wedding

Right. I mean, well, in this case, especially since you're saying some of them are misbehaving with money, you giving them $10,000 is them saying, well, I'm going to do whatever I want with this money. And to your point, if they're doing misbehavior things, then that's not the gift you wanted it to be.

No, magnifies their stupidity when you give them money. So that it does for all of us. Anybody that gets money at magnifies who you are, good and bad. And so when you put some zeros on the end of that, you're doing that. So I don't know. I think one of the things we've learned to do in the Ramsey household and it's helped because I am convinced my wife and I were talking about this the other day and it's not because my kids are bad. They're excellent kids. But I think adult children is a weird phrase to start with.

That's like an oxymoronic phrase to start with. But raising adult children is the hardest phase of parenting. It was much easier when they were under my control and I could just tell them what to freakin' do. It was a lot easier. Now they have these ideas of their own and stuff. I taught them to think and damned if they didn't. Oh my God, it's so hard. And so it's a difficult time emotionally in that state for a lot of parents, Paula, but I think

If you're going to differentiate for a reason, one of the things we've done a really good job about is we just communicate. We just say there's a difference here and here's why.

And you know what, that lets all the air out of it. And you can say it in front of the whole fam family, right? You can put everybody in the room and go, this is what we're doing, it's Thanksgiving by the way, and here's what we're doing. And it clears the air. I remember Rachel had her first big book coming out, and we know what personalities make on a big book.

And so we were at Thanksgiving and I said, hey everybody, we're gonna stop just a second here. And y'all are, they're all in their 20s. And I'm like Rachel's getting ready to have a great year from some hard work she's done. And some of your years aren't gonna be as great because you haven't done that same exact work. And you get the decision right now to decide whether to be jealous and petty or whether to congratulate your sister and cheer her on.

To their credit, once you said it out loud, they immediately became cheerleaders. But it took the air out of the balloon of jealousy once you say it out loud. And so you don't, you know, it's harder to do it once somebody said it out loud. This is the Ramsey show. I've been doing this show for over 30 years. And some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are completely preventable.

Yeah. And what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible air. People that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. When you have to think through how am I going to pay my bills in the middle next week? Yeah. In the middle of all that grief, like it's just, it is, it's terrible. And so life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance.

And it doesn't cost much because Zander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud and you got to say, I'm going to say, I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of stinking pizza to get a free quote, call 800-356-4282 or go to zander.com.

Jade Washall, number one best selling author and Ramsey personality is my co-host. It's that time of year and a few weeks we're going to be doing a special giving generosity edition of the Ramsey Show. It's one of my favorite shows because we want to teach you to live like no one else so that later you can give like no one else. So here's the deal.

Maybe you've been the person that was generous and you got to see someone's face and life changed. Maybe you were on the receiving end of the generosity and you want to tell that story.

Whether you know the person that gave or whether it was anonymous gift, we don't care. We want to encourage generosity by telling great generosity stories. So jump on to RamseySolutions.com slash ask.

put giving in the subject line. That's how you get on the radio show if you want to leave a message there and you put giving on the subject line. We'll get you on the podcast of the YouTube show when we're doing the giving show. We do this every Christmas time. It's one of our most popular shows. People love it.

Because it reminds us how wonderful human beings can be out there and often are. It's coming up on December 18th. So send us your giving story starting today. So you can live like no one else. So later you can give like no one else Ramsey solutions.com slash ask put giving in the subject line. Hannah's in Columbia, South Carolina. Hi, Hannah. What's up?

Hi, Dave. Hi, Jade. I'm so excited to talk to you guys. You too. How can we help? OK. My question is, I have been listening to you guys for about two or three months, and I'm really gunk-ho. My husband and I are almost to baby steps four, five, and six. And I know you guys say to be intentional in those and do them together. So when you're in those steps, why

So my husband and I not put extra money into an investment that has a 12% return instead of paying off our house that has an interest rate of 2.5. It's a great math question. And the reason is more than math. So we studied 10,167 millionaires.

Okay. And ask them, how did you become a millionaire? Did you inherit the money? Did you win the lotto? Are you a country music star? Did you save and invest? How did you do it? What did you do? What's your age? What's your income? What's your career? So we could find

some correlations and 10,000 people is enough to study to draw some real airtight research based conclusions. And we got a lot of wonderful data from that. In other words, facts. Here's what's interesting. The number of those millionaires that said I became a millionaire

because I borrowed on my home at a lesser interest rate so that I could invest more, which is effectively what you're talking about doing. You're not borrowing on it, but you're not paying it off, which is the same thing. Okay. The number of them that said I delayed paying off my home so that I could invest more. And that's how I became a millionaire. You know how many of them it was out of 10,000? Not very many. Zero.

We never had one tell us that. That that's how they became a millionaire, was that they leveraged their home into investments.

Isn't that interesting? And yet the math that you bring up is actually accurate. I mean, there's, you know, you can borrow money or you might have a mortgage at 3% and you can make 10, 12, maybe 14% in the last 12 months, you can make 30% on an S&P, okay, which is not normal. But, you know, you're 12% I don't argue with it all. The difference is is that you're going to be paying taxes on the money unless you're investing it into a Roth and,

You know, you've also taken more risk because you're home. So something happens to people when they get their home paid off, the freedom that they sense in their relationships and their careers causes them to prosper more and faster.

than the difference in the interest rates. And so that's the only explanation I've got for it. And I'll tell you this, here's an interesting thing you can do. Go ahead and pay off your house. And if you hate it, just go get into the mortgage.

That's where I am. I really want to do that, but I'm also married to an accountant. He knows the math. Well, here's the problem. I see it. Let me submit to him that he's doing a naive, primitive, incomplete math formula.

because his math formula does not include risk and his math formula does not include taxes. And if he can quantify the risk exactly and put it into a math formula, he's better guy than I am and I'm a math nerd from now on. But it is a real risk because we can all honestly say the more debt you have, the more risk you have agreed. Yes. And to not mathematically factor that into his formula makes his formula naive and incomplete. So I don't care if he's an accountant. He's wrong.

Right. That's the thing. I mean, now how do you convince him of that? I don't know. I mean, you've been convincing him is wrong since he's wrong since you got married. So maybe you can work on it. Yeah. My biggest question for him would be what is his ultimate goal and why are you guys doing this? His ultimate goals build wealth and he thinks he's leveraging the money. Right. Am I right?

Yes, yes, you are right. Yeah. But I guess my question is, is it a, let's say, let's say he says, my goal is to have $8 million, right? Is it a timeframe? Is it a timeframe he's so caught up on? Or is there a way that you can present that argument and say, hey, we can still get there. We're just going there in this order and this is going to give me more peace. Do you see what I'm saying?

Yeah. And I, I, um, he was trained by the same people I was trained by. My finance professor was broke. What's wrong with that picture? A broke finance professor is like a shop teacher with missing fingers. My grandpa was not broke.

And he was also an accountant. The reason he was not broke though is he avoided debt like the plague because he was a child of the Great Depression. And he had no debt, no debt, no debt, no debt, no way, no debt. And when I started going in debt like a crazy man to buy houses in my twenties, he said,

I'm going to throw you out of the family. You couldn't be one of ours. You're too dumb. He didn't say that, but he made me feel that. Yeah, there you go. But yeah, I mean, because it's a so polar opposite of what that generation that had common sense lived. So the problem, Hannah, is your husband was trained by a broke finance professor to believe an incomplete, inaccurate math formula. And you can play this back for him.

But, um, and Jay, you know, it's an interesting conversation. Cause we get this question like all the time. Once a week. Right. And when I first started this journey, um, this journey being common sense money, I've got a finance degree. I've got letters and licenses of all kinds. After my name, this is, I'm supposed to know something about money, but I'm 28 years old and I'm bankrupt because I borrowed two dead gum, much money. I'm an idiot. And I got the opportunity to start over my wife would have left, but she didn't have a car. I mean, it was awful.

horrible. And I was a brand new Christian. And so I started learning from this guy named Larry Burkett that the Bible had financial principles. And I read in there, the borrower is slave to the lender. And then I read in there, he who is impulsive exalts folly. And then I read in there,

the blessings and cursings to the house of Israel as they crossed the Jordan. After Moses has led them in the wilderness, the blessings are you will be so wealthy, you will be a lender, the cursings are you will be a borrower. Every single thing in Scripture that I was reading as a brand new believer was negative about debt.

And yet my intellect and academics all told me that to borrow money like her husband, the accountant. And I struggled with exactly the same thing. But I made the decision in those days on the basis of faith. I just said, OK, I tried it. I tried it the academic way I went broke. And I'm going to try this Bible stuff. And it's common sense. Now years later, I discover, oh, they left out risk.

They let the math formulas in complete. These academics aren't sadadgum smart after all. Who knew? This is the Ramsey show.

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All right, today's question comes from Brody in Maryland. He says, is it unfair for me to feel angry that my wife wants a bigger house? We bought a 1400 square foot house last April. I sold all four of my investment properties that I worked very hard for to completely pay off our debt, including the new house. Our house is a three bedroom, two bath ranch with a backyard on a quiet street, and it's in a good school district.

So much sacrifice and saving went into making this happen. Now she wants a bigger house, even though she said she wanted this particular house before we put the offer in. I don't see how I can make this happen without going into debt again, and I will not go back into debt.

Oh, this is juicy. Listen, here's the thing. I do think that some people's personalities, because you don't talk about any type of pay raise or situation where you guys' lifestyle has changed drastically, but I do think there's some people that the goal post is constantly moving, right? It's like, if I just get this, I'll be happy, and then they get that thing, and they're not happy, or if I just get this, I'll be content, and then it happens, and they're not content, because things don't make you happy, and things don't make you content.

You know, I think that they're fun, but they don't, they don't fill that void. And you can buy fun, but you can't buy happiness. Yeah. And you can't buy contentment. And if you're on social media, which she might be every single day, scrolling through and looking at what the influences are doing and looking at what their friends, you know, their friends houses are she spending all night watching HGTV. It is very difficult.

for some people to kind of go, well, that's them, and that's okay, my life is fine. And truly, I think that that's what this is. I think she's got a contentment issue. Exactly. Sidebar, what you stated there, I just saw an article the other day that the more hours you spend on social media, the typical, there's a direct correlation to the more credit card debt you have. Oh, really? I'd love to see that. I know there is. And the more overspending you do, because I do it, and I have the money.

but I'm like looking at some gun thing and I'm like, oh, I need one of those. But if I had stayed off of that, I wouldn't have known it was there. And, you know, but so I know other people do it and I teach this crap. So, you know what I mean? It's like, gah, Lee, if I'm doing it, it's got to be. So, okay. Here's what happened, Brody. You guys need to reset your marriage relationship. This is not about a 1400 square foot house and it's not about you being angry.

you are acting like the daddy and she's acting like daddy's little princess. And daddy sold everything and did everything and sacrificed and worked his fingers to the bone. And what do you get? Bony fingers and he got a house and he's real proud of the house. And now she walks in and goes, yeah, but there's the wallpaper.

and so we need to reset this and instead let's be two like grown-ups so the conversation I'm going to have is and actually we had it at our house but in a little different way when we were about your old age probably I'll tell you about ours in a second but the conversation I'm going to have is okay

We are going to get aligned on our goals. My goal is not to perpetually make an unhappy person happy. I am not going to get on that treadmill. We, you're a grown woman. I'm a grown man. We're going to sit down together and here's one of mine. I don't borrow money.

period. Here's another one of mine. I like to provide nice things for my wife. Here's another one of mine. These are what you might say, Brody. Okay. And she's saying, well, I want to house as nice as my friends. Okay, what can we do to get that? You don't work. You could work. You don't work much. You could work more.

uh... you could quit coach bagging it and we might save that money towards the house i mean what are we going to do is to grown up people to responsibly

because I'm all in, I put all my chips in the table, I sold off everything I had to buy this house for us. And what you did though, was you did that without her, she was not aligned to that to say, she was giving you lip service, but this was not her idea, it was yours. And now you're surprised that she's unhappy of your plan that did not her include her.

So this is like, I gotta tell you what, about 10 years, I've been married 43 years, about 10 years in a marriage. I don't buy Sharon jewelry anymore that she hasn't seen. Tell us why. Because I picked out ugly crap. I know why.

according to her, but I spent a lot of my beautiful money on her ugly crap. And then she didn't, she's like, Oh, I wouldn't know about that. And I'm like, Oh geez, well, let's just not do that again. So I don't mind if Sharon has, I mean, she's got earrings the size of a headlight, but she picked them out. And then she says they're healthy.

They're that big, okay? And I'm like, that's ridiculous. It's a good problem to have share. Okay, just get your little earlobes and do some earlobe lifts. Start doing some workouts there in the gym because you picked them out. So see, that's the difference. This girl's not involved in this.

Well, yeah, you can tell by the language. I sold all of my investment properties. So much sacrifice. Yeah, he's the only one. He feels like he's the only one sacrificing. You can tell by the language whether. But it's a paternal thing rather than an equal thing. Yeah. Yeah, you can hear it. I think we got a reset and go, we're not doing anywhere from here. We're not making any major decisions without both of us involved.

And I learned that after I went broke, because I made a lot of decisions that were stupid without talking to my wife. Proverbs 31 says, who can find a virtuous wife for her worth is far above Ruby's. The heart of her husband safely trusts her. And here's my favorite part, he will have no lack of gain. And it's not in the Bible, but it might be in one version like second hesitations. Right after no lack of gain, she no longer says, I told you so.

Oh, I kind of like saying that. I like being able to say that. I know, but you can't say that when you're in on the decision. All you can say is we together made a dumb butt decision. That's all you can say from this point forward. And that's it. You can't say you're an idiot. You can't do that anymore because now you have to use plural. It's changing. We are idiots. We did this, right?

And so that's what's going on here, dude. You've got to reset This idea you have put your little Superman cape up of you're the papa and you're the provider and all this stuff and She's just a little woman and you're gonna you're never gonna make scarlet over here. I happy it's not gonna happen so She's gonna get on the same page and be like a grown woman and stuff and then she'll become happy and

It's a weird balance of power. It's a big deal, man. It's a big deal. This alignment in marriage is one of the things we find all the time in people's ability to get out of debt. They succeed in their careers at a greater rate and their ability to build wealth because they're aligned on sacrificing and they make decisions together.

The first time we did that after going broke was we finally saved up a little bit of money, and I had $10,000. Sharon was driving a blue three-tone astro van. You remember those? Oh, 100%. Completely ugly. The carpet was covered in toddler goldfish from the third kid, and it was nasty. This was a bad car. It was an embarrassing vehicle. When they first came out, they were all right. Well, this was not first come out.

And she's like, I need a, I need a better car. We need to move up to suburban. And I was going to, I had $10,000 or $15,000 saved at the company. I was getting ready to do this investment. We were going to buy this thing and I was going to make a hundred thousand with this 15,000 down here. And she's like, uh, we need to do a car. And you know what? We did both, but we did the car first. And then we did the company and it turns out now all these years later, it was okay.

but in the moment aligning on that with two grownups was a big deal. It's a big deal. This is the Ramsey Show. Do you ever feel like you're finally making progress towards your goals only to get quickly distracted by something else in your feed? Well, that's why we created the Ramsey Network App. Your single source for content that keeps you motivated. The Ramsey Network App is designed to keep you laser focused on reaching your goals.

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth to work that they love and create actual, amazing relationships.

Jade Washall, Ramsey Personality, number one best-selling author of the book, Money's Not a Math Problem. She's my co-host today. Open phones here at triple eight, eight, two, five, five, two, two, five. Scott's in Las Vegas. Hey, Scott, what's up?

How are you Dave? Long time listener. I really appreciate you guys taking my call. Sure. I came across the question today for investing purposes on my Roth 401k. My coworkers and I were looking for next year and looking at setting things up. And the question came up about if I were to put let's say 15% of my income and I hit the IRS cap, let's say October or November,

Will that negatively negatively affect how my company match for the remainder of the year where I'm not actually getting any money? I don't know if it's a number that's going to be a six number regardless. Will the company six percent match be the same? If I hit it in October or if I were to spread it out over smaller increments throughout the end, that's 26 paychecks. That's a question for your company, your HR team. That's not a regular issue. That's not a regular issue. It's not a regular issue.

A way to be able to calculate that to be able to look at even previous because a couple years I had made I hit that number in October and then last two years. Let me have a little bit more money in my pocket throughout the course and I spread it out with a little bit lower number and let it hit the last paycheck in December. And I didn't know if that was going to be from a negative impact of my word. I think you could look at the total for that year total invested by you and then the total match and divide it into what the percentage was right.

Right, sure, exactly. That would tell you what your company does. Yeah, I mean, some companies match up to a certain amount, some companies match all the way through. We match a percentage regardless of what you put in, regardless of when you put it in. And so, I mean, I've got some high income earners that fully fund theirs in the first quarter.

Right. And then they just don't, they don't have that because they can't, they max it out completely. They're not allowed to put any more than that in. And so not by us, but by regulation. And then we match that as they do it whenever they do it, whatever they do, same, but that's a company decision as to how the match is done. And if you have to drag it out to get the full match, I would drag it out.

Make sense. If you need to do that, then find out how they distribute that money. Yeah, if you need to do 12 even months to get the full match, then do the 12 even months because the match is more valuable than the early portion of the investing. But that brings up another interesting thing, Jay, that sometimes people ask, you know, should I spread my personal Roth over 12 months or just do it in January?

You know, you should do it in January, is the answer mathematically, because the entire amount is earning throughout the entire year rather than a portion of it earning each month more. That's right. And so, well, what if the market went down? Well, if the market goes down, none of this works.

So it only works when it's going up. And overall, we know it's going to go up. It could go up or down in the short term. But yeah, so Scott, that's an HR and payroll. And whoever's managing your 401k at your company question.

And you could get a hint before you even call them by looking at the percentage they gave or the dollars they gave last year as a percentage of what you put in last year and see if that matches their standard match rate. And that would tell you, you know, if you're looking like 6%, then you go, okay, you know,

I put in $10,000 irregularly, but they still put in, you know, 6%, that's 600 bucks. And so, you know, or whatever the number is, but that's, you can still look at that and figure that out. So, very cool. Very cool. Good stuff, man. That's a great question, by the way. And here's the neat thing about all this.

People like him, it's not the answer to this technical question that matters. What matters is he's actually thinking about it. I was going to say that, you know, people don't think about it. They're not. Yeah, they don't think about it. So the fact that he's maxing it out, the fact that he's thinking through that is really, really great. Yeah, the intentionality.

One of the things, I've got a friend that his dad was the governor of Tennessee in the 1950s. And so he's in his 70s now. But he was a little kid in short pants in the governor's mansion in the 1950s. And I had a great discussion with him one night. He said the discussion in our family table growing up was politics. And he said, you know what rich people talk about at the family table?

generosity and investing and value purchases, not cheapo purchases. All the important things you can do with money. Long-term decision. And so a rich kid grows up with a silver spoon because their parents got rich because they were concentrating on money, not obsessed by it, not worshipping it.

Like my friend's family didn't worship politics. They weren't obsessed by it, but they were in that world. It's what they did. And it made me realize that's how, you know, if you grow up, I got a cousin as a car dealer and guess what? He owns a bunch of cars. I wonder why. Yeah. I think you end up talking about the things that are a value to you in your life, whether it's your religious beliefs, moral beliefs, hobbies, whatever that is. That's what you talk about. That's what you passed down.

And so you need to be, you need to be thoughtful about that. But that's the same thing of this, of Scott being intentional. What's him and his friends sitting around the lunch table talking about? Not other people's careers carry in a football. Well, let me tell you about their careers and how they're going to build it. Well, I think that's one of the, I mean, we kind of talked about this early, but if you're, if you're on social media and you know more about P Diddy and you know more about other celebrities finances,

And you know more about what, you know, so and so is driving and you don't even know about your own stuff. You don't know the state of your own affairs. You don't care that much about your own financial situation about your own relationships. That's a red flag. It's backwards. More into pop culture than your own culture.

I was at a Titans football game one time, a long, long time ago, and the seats were not great. And the guy in front of us

was a large man, without a shirt. And it painted his big self blue with a big titan thing on his chest. And he yelled and screamed like the world was coming to an end on every play he cussed the coach. You didn't like that. And on every play he cussed the players.

And I told my wife I said if he was as enthusiastic about his career or his marriage as he is about watching these young kids down here playing football, he would probably have a good life.

wrong dogs. You know? Yeah. You got to channel it to the right cause. I mean, I'm sorry. I get it if you're in college and you and your buddies all have too many beers and paint letters on your chest and take your clothes off or whatever. I get that. Take your shirts off. Anyway, I get that. I don't get 56 years old.

Yeah, and obese. I don't get that one. Okay, it's just gross. All right. I'm just saying it. Just saying it for all the rest of us out there. This is the Ramsey show.

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Hey guys, George Campbell here, and it's that time of year again. The store shelves are packed with little Debbie's Christmas trees, matching pajamas for you and your dog, you know who you are, and giant inflatable Santas for the yard. I'm not mad about that. And speaking of inflation, Americans are about to spend close to a trillion dollars this Christmas. And get this, one third of that spending will be swiped on credit cards.

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Jade Washaw Ramsey personality is my co host today. Sydney is in Cincinnati, Ohio. Hi, Sydney. Welcome to the Ramsey show. Hi. Hi. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up?

So I'm kind of new to the Dave Ramsey universe, but I am currently like working through the steps currently on step three. And earlier this year, I got President Biden's student loan forgiveness and a refund check with that. So I am completely consumer debt free outside of my mortgage.

Okay, stop, stop, stop, stop just a second because President Biden has issued several press releases, but the all of the debt forgiveness was all programs that were already in existence. He took credit for him, but they were already there. Aside from that, what, um, what was the forgiveness that you got? What, what type? What was the situation?

Just my student loans, my school was being predatory or whatever. That's been in place for 20 years. Schools that are predatory and go broke, the student loans are forgiven for the last 20 years. And you should, by the way. And they should be, and that is a standard for getting, so the student loan that you took out with this predatory trade schools, what they typically are, or some kind of online school or something like that,

They took out, they gave you student loans, they were federally insured student loans, and the federal government forgave those because they deemed the school to be predatory, right? Yep. Why'd you get back? How much did you, had you paid into it and they gave you that back, that's what the refund check was?

Yes. And so I use that to pay off my car, my 401k loan that I use to do my mortgage. I know that's like against the rules. I learned that now, you know, I get into that then. That's okay. That's okay. And paid off by credit cards. So I've been consumer debt free all year or since then. Except the 401k. No, I paid that off as well. Why don't you get back? Way to go. How much was it? I got like 16, 17,000 back. Okay.

Okay, and that cleared up some of the remainder mess. All right, so let me think here. All right, so the student loan was taken out. The money was given to the predatory school. The predatory school goes broke. You are forgiven the student loan and they refunded you what you had paid on the student loan. I don't think that type of loan forgiveness is taxable. Most loan forgiveness is taxable, but this is a different program because you did not actually receive the money here.

The money you receive back was your money you paid against the loan. Yeah. That was already your money. Don't expect to be packed. Yeah. So if you take out a credit card loan and you go buy something for yourself or you put the money in your pocket, right? And then they forgive that. That's taxable, but you got the benefit of that. You did not get any benefit here. I don't think this is taxable, but you're going to have to check with a tax professional to be sure.

Yeah, that's what I wanted to see if you guys have any insight on because I'm currently getting laid off and my plan is to file my taxes like first thing next year to help bridge any potential employment. I'm expecting to run into, but now I'm like, if I'm going to get taxed on that, do I wait? I don't think you're going to get taxed on that before then. I don't think you're going to. Here's the way. Let's get you a pure answer. Here's the way to do it. Go to Ramsesolutions.com.

And we have indoor, we call, endorsed local providers. They're people that we have vetted and we are comfortable with their professionalism and the quality of care that they give. One of them is in the area of tax. So you're looking for a tax ELP, endorsed local provider at RamseySolutions.com in your area of Cincinnati. There will be one or two or three of them.

Okay. Holler at one of them and talk to them about preparing your taxes and ask them on the phone if this type of loan forgiveness is taxable. Tell them Dave said he doesn't think it is, but for them to double check it. Yeah. And I see something on here that says, and I don't know if this was a part of American rescue because this was kind of in place before that. No, this is not American rescue. Yeah. But it says that if they're discharged between January 1st and December 31st of 2025, they're not taxable. So

You shall see. Okay. I don't think you're going to get taxed on this one. Okay. Okay. Good question. Good question.

And lesson learned, politics aside, politicians tend to take credit for things they didn't do. It's part of being a politician. And like when I was interviewing President Trump before the election, one of the things I told him was people like me that own small businesses and actually do create jobs, it kind of pisses us off when you politicians say you create jobs because you politicians don't create nothing.

All you can do is create an environment for those of us that actually create jobs to function. And he kind of laughed and goes, well, that's right. But then, you know, the next week he comes out and talks about all the jobs he created. But that's politicians. And Biden didn't forgive these loans either. This program has been in place. God, since student loans have been there.

predatory lending, so like a truck driving school that goes broke or a tech school, you go get a computer certification, but there are just, some of the times they're like hair care or a massage therapist or something like that and they'll get student loans going in these things and they can gin them up and they make a ton of money and then they turn the key and walk away.

with all the money in their pocket. They're scams. They're fronts is what they are. And they pop up and then they die. They pop up and then they die. They time television. If you're watching Judge Mathis or, you know, all the, I feel like that's all that's on TV. Are these?

I don't want to call them education institutes, but you know. Well, that's what they call themselves. Yeah. Yeah. And so we would be doing it as a sergeant, not live skit, but yeah. But the federal student loan forgiveness has been there for those types of situations for at least 20 years, at least. Well, listen, if you really want to get technical, it's never an administration forgiving debt. It's taxpayers forgiving your debt.

We don't get the choice. We just get the bill. That's what I'm saying. Let's put the check on who is really in here. That's for sure. Anytime the government, what was it, Reagan said, if somebody says I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

Yeah, run. Yeah That's that's the bottom line there and that's either party. I'll just tell you so this is um, but that that that's the thing to remember and just Either way the good news is by the way if you pat if someone passed away in your family

The student loans are forgiven. It's been that way 30 years. If someone is permanently disabled, their student loans are forgiven. It's been that way for 30 years. That's not a new program. It's been since I've been on the air that we've been talking about this.

That's the stuff. But either way, you do have to deal with the tax question, so Sydney's smart to ask that question about the taxes. I think I'm pretty sure you're not going to get taxed, but don't take Dave Ramsey's tax advice. I suck at it. Here it is. I found it. Borrower Defense. So this is a program that eliminates federal student loan belonging to borrowers who

Their college misled them or if their school engaged in misconduct, if they violated any state laws, the IRS has issued notices for these and they are not taxable as income. That's according to Google. Also, check that out because it's on the internet and Abraham Lincoln said everything on the internet is true.

It's a good place to start. Yeah, that's the thing you got to remember. But that's probably it. You found that on the IRS site or whatever. No, this is a article from Yahoo Financial. So once again, please don't take their advice or mine. Please get a professional to be sure. But it sounds like that we're onto something there. Sounds like we're on the right track. So good stuff. Very, very cool. All right, ladies and gentlemen, that's how we do it. Listen, the way the student loans go away,

Jade, how'd your student loans go away? Work. Oh, there's that. It's got to work. It's a new program. It's a brand new program. It's out. It's called WRK. Yeah, it's called you wake up in the morning, you go to work and you stay at work all day and then you take the money and you pay off your loans for a long time. You ought to get a radio show.

You don't do a whole lot other in between. You just work and pay off the loans and work and pay off the loans. My grandmother used to say there's a great place to go when you're broke. Toe work. I love it. This is the Ramsey Show.

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Jade Walsh, all Ramsey personality number one best selling author is my co host today in the lobby of Ramsey solutions on the debt free stage. Alex and Brenda are with us. Hey guys, how are you? Welcome. Welcome. Where do you all live? We're in Parker, Colorado, just a little bit south of Denver. Oh, cool. Well, welcome. Good to have you all the way over to Nashville to do a debt free scream. How much have you paid off?

So Dave, we paid off $305,000 or $305,450. Wow. Sorry. How long did that take? Three years, two months and 13 days. Three years and two months. Wow. And your range of income during that time? Our range of income was $148,000 to $240,000. Wow. Nice jump. What do y'all do for a living?

I am full-time with the Colorado Army National Guard. And I'm a civilian with the Army National Guard as a cost accountant. Ah, very good. Very good. Well, thanks for your service. Well done, you guys. Good work. Very fun. What kind of debt was this? 305,000. It was our mortgage. I knew it! Pay it off your house! I can tell by the smile. I love it!

Wow, you guys are so weird. I love it, weirdos. Good work. How much is this house worth? $850,000. How old are you two? We're on our early 30s. Wow. And you have a paid for $850,000 house. Yes, sir. Man, how much in your nest egg in your 401Ks in retirement?

I'm right around 300 does it right now. Wow. Wow. Wow. So your millionaires and your early 30s. We are. I'm so proud of you. Thank you. Look at you too. Way to go, man. When you got married, how broke were you?

Um, we are actually fairly new to this merge. We got married about four years ago. Oh, okay. Kind of on this journey as singles. Okay. Okay. Yeah. All right. So you just took off and get this quick then. Well, tell us your Ramsey story. How'd you get plugged into this three years and two months ago? Well, she started a long time before I did. I was kind of messing around and then she gave me your

Um, total money make. When we were deciding if we were going to date or not, I was like, read this book and let's talk about it. So I was, you better write, I have the right answers in the next dinner. So it was funny because I read it and I was like, oh, I'm kind of doing all this stuff. Anyway, this guy kind of got fed up with being broke. And then I was like, Oh, this is easy enough. So being kind of a money person anyways, I was like, all right. Well, this is simple. I read the book at the seven steps and I was just like, okay, let's do it. Here we go. I love it.

Very cool. Very cool. So you guys met at the National Guard, I assume? Yes. Okay. Very good. Man, that's a great situation you're in. After just four years of marriage in your early thirties, but it sounds like, Brenda, you had a head start on it. Yes. I grew up with parents who didn't do that. And so when I moved out, I just, I didn't do that. I didn't have a hold a dig out of it. Did you all buy the house after marriage?

We did. We, as soon as we got married, we became a family of five. We had his son and my two kids. Oh, wow. The day we got married. So I lived in a tiny little house and we went out and we put over 50% down on our house and decided just to kick it. So we made this kind of like our baby step two. Okay. Just took off running with it. Pretty intense then.

Yeah, a big part of this was that we wanted to teach FPU, which we had done in the past, and we just actually finished doing a week ago. Nice. Yeah, we just wanted to start second course. So we wanted to kind of be like, practice what you've reached. And because we didn't have a step two together, we kind of treated, you know, paint the mortgage like our step two, even though it's not exactly advised.

I get it. Alex, would you pay off beforehand because for you, that was kind of the change. I was working a credit card and my car paying those off. And I think together that was 19,000. Okay. Wow. So, Brenda put the screws to it. Yep. She said, not allowed. Very cool. Well, thanks for teaching Financial Peace University. That had to be a great class. You guys had to be like cloud nine.

Yeah. Pretty excited. Yeah. We, uh, we taught it once and then we, we took the most motivated couple that was there and we, like we were there co leaders the next time around. So this last time that we just finished. Yeah. They were our co leaders this time. They did great. I love it. Build a build the next generation of coordinators. Good for you. Good for you.

All right, when you're coordinating a class or when someone asks how you're a millionaire at age early 30s with a paid for $850,000 house and you don't make $2 million a year either. When someone asks how did you do that, what do you tell them the key to getting out of debt is?

hard work for sure. I think between the two of us, we had about 13 jobs. We each had a solid job. And then we took on several side jobs. He can tell you what most of them were. So now all the same time. But over the three years I were doing this, I worked at Home Depot for a summer. We both worked delivering packages for Amazon. I was a tax assistant at our CPA office. We both did landscaping. I did Uber and Lyft.

I was reservist in National Guard. I did handyman work. She sold items on next door. So it was a whole bunch of not all at once, but like there was always something going on just to kind of keep it new and different. So what happens next? You've got to pay for a house. You don't have a payment in the world. What are you planning?

I think our next thing is probably cars. Drive very old, very used cars. What are you going to get? Nothing new but new to us. Probably a newer minivan and then he needs a nicer commuter car. He's driving an 06 car with very many miles. Something from this decade. I love that.

I first want to move up to this decade. Yes. That's a good move. I like that. That's good. Very cool. Well, I mean, you drove those beaters and now you'll never have to again. Make sure you take pictures of them. We will. Before they leave because I've got pictures of every car I owned except one and I really wish I had that one. Is it the original? No, it's one of those beaters that I had.

Somehow I managed to not that was back when you know when we actually had film and stuff like that in cameras So anyway, anyway side side bar, but yeah, good. Good job you guys. Who was cheering you on as you went? We have a whole we have a ton of cheerleaders. So Matthew and Amber like I mentioned our co-host on financial piece Get the little cheat sheet. It's okay to look at him. You can look at it. I look at them all time

My youngest brother Lloyd and his wife Haley are on this journey and they're right behind us and baby step two. Paul and Felicity and Sean and Rosa and our class and FPU are cheering us along and also learning along with us. And then several coworkers we have Miss Sicily, Miss Miranda, Miss Alita and Miss Jennifer. That her mother Linda. Yeah. Did you have anybody telling you not to do this? Oh, people kept saying we're crazy. Yeah, I don't have any. What was the most lucrative side hustle? One that made the most money.

Probably Amazon Flex just because they give you blocks of time and if you finish it early, you get paid for that full block letter. So we would take our older kids along with us and they would throw us packages from the back. We could finish a three hour route in an hour and a half and then go pick up another one. Which one did you dislike the most?

Probably amazon flags. It was a lot of work. There were days that we would be up at 3.30 in the morning. We'd go, oh, actually it was earlier than that. We'd be there at 3.30. And then we'd go to our real jobs at 6.37. And then sometimes after that, we'd want to help with this. Back to another Amazon round. Wow. It was crazy. Both of us sometimes were working 90 hour plus weeks. And was it worth it? It was totally worth it. The grass really does feel different under your feet.

Yeah, tell somebody why because people call in all the time and they're like, you know, I've got a low interest rate. It's not they feel like it's not worth it to them. But here you are doing it and you sacrifice to do it.

I'm a simplifier kind of person, so it's just one less thing to worry about. And now we really get to put it towards our retirement accounts. So we're able to max out our Roths, and I think five years ago, I was looking at my net amounts. And I was like, I wasn't even making this amount five years ago. And that's after putting in max Roth contributions and having other things come out.

It's a big thing out of the way. And now I get to stay home. Oh, wow. That's a big one. I'm not. I'm not yet, but I'm in the process. Oh, wow. Very good. Well, I guess so. You're a million. That's neat. Love it. I'm so proud of y'all. They're amazing. I mean, in their early thirties. So well done. All right. Are the kiddos going to scream with you? Yeah. All right. Let's get them up here. Introduce them, give us their names and ages. Oh, we may have a sad one. Oh, did we lose one? Here they come.

Oh, the little wood sand. That's okay. Oh, she is cute. That dress. Oh, my gosh. That's all right. How that's perfect. All right, Alex and Brenda, Addie, Liam, Logan, and Anna Lee, 305,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. All right, three, two, one. We're debt-free.

Well, I scared the little one to death. That's good. Baby steps millionaires in their early 30s, what'd they do? Follow the stuff we teach. This is the Ramsey Show.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here and I got a big announcement. I'm coming to a city near you live on the money and relationships tour with Dr. John Deloney. This is the most interactive event we've ever done. You get to decide what we talk about. You do not want to miss this. We'll be coming to Louisville, Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix, Fort Worth, and Kansas City in April and May of 2025. Get your tickets and more information at Ramsysolutions.com slash tour.

jade wash all ramsi personality my co-host today ramsi's black friday sale is going on right now yet early access to some of our best deals of the year meaningful gifts for family and friends as low as eight dollars our best-selling books like the total money makeover baby steps millionaires

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If you're on this journey, you got to have some fun with it. RamseySolutions.com slash store or click the link if you're on podcast or YouTube. This is nice. It is nice. It's a little champagne action there. I heard that's what they call it. Grand Rapids is in Michigan. It is. Dan is there. Hi, Dan. How are you? Hey, Dave. Good. I do today. Better than I deserve. What's up?

Okay. Make a long story short. Um, I'm in between baby step one, baby step two, you know, things going good, stuff, stuff breaks by my thousand dollars. Get a rebuild baby step one. Uh, I got my girlfriend. She's kind of starting to get to be here. We want to be married and have a family. Mm hmm. She has $21,000 in credit card debt. Mm hmm. She, she found this company accredited debt relief.

They offer just a payment of $314 a month for 48 months. That's to pay off the credit cards. The problem is that's only $16,400. I don't understand how this could work.

Okay. Because it's the same as filing bankruptcy. It's going to destroy her credit. Here's the way they work. Stay away from them. Stay away from them, but here's why, okay? The way they work is when you sign up with them, they take over all of your payments. And the first thing they do is they stop making any payments.

And they let all the credit cards go into default if they're not there already. And so they go into default and the credit card companies then will settle a bad debt. Now she will be in collections on every one of them.

and then they'll settle the bad debt for a lesser amount than is owed and set up payments on that. And that's how they know that they can get you a $16,000 deal. By the way, if you did this yourself and just quit paying for a year, which I don't recommend, then you can call them and settle for probably a quarter on the dollar. So you probably settle all this for five or six thousand bucks.

But that is also not paying your bill when you're able to number one number two you've completely destroyed your credit

I mean, nasty, bad, nasty. You got a bunch of outstanding, bad debt at that point. And that's the way these people work. And it basically does the same thing to your credit as filing chapter 13 bankruptcy does. You can do the same thing with chapter 13 bankruptcy. You can file with chapter 13 bankruptcy. If you qualify for the bankruptcy under guidelines, then you can pay a percentage, not a hundred percent, but you can pay, in this case, you said 16 out of 21, right?

Yeah. Yeah, you could pay, so you could pay 75 cents on the dollar. You could agree to pay 75% to my unsecured creditors in my chapter 13. That's not 48 months, that's 60 months, but they could do the exact same thing there and it'll do the exact same thing to our credit. Only technically she's filed for bankruptcy and the other one she didn't technically file for bankruptcy. But it does the same amount of damage if not more.

to your reputation and to the process. Plus you're screwed. You're in debt $21,000 for 48 for four years when you could have paid it off by next Christmas working five jobs. Yeah, why can't you just pay it off? Why can't you just work more and pay it off? Tell us more about that. What's the income? I work for the railroad. I'm on 12 right now, which is really the most I can work.

Um, she's a teacher and she's doing what I'm starting to do Amazon flex, but she is a daughter. I want the death. What she takes. He's like the director of, uh,

But you're different, like daycare, she's a teacher, but she's now like the director of a bunch of those. She makes about 55,000 a year. Okay. Now, instead of doing that, now that I've explained to you and answered your question, what it does, I'll give you a suggestion rather than doing that. Okay. And what I'll do is I'm going to give you financial peace university and every dollar plus for both of you. She's going to have her account. You're going to have your account because you're not married.

I want both of you to get on a detailed type budget. Don't spend any money on anything. Live on beans and rice, no eating out, no vacations, and working extra. If she has a teaching degree and a talent in a particular subject like math or English, she can do tutoring and make more than Amazon Flex.

if she can get some students from a local elementary or local junior high or whatever, and she teaches math in the afternoons or the math in the evenings after she gets home. I mean, you can make $30 to $50 an hour doing that. Child care, too. And your kids sit in the other room while you're doing this. They come to your house.

That's a great idea. Yeah, I've got a friend that's a reading specialist that makes bank while her kids sit in the other room and on the side and I mean it's serious money there because they got reading problems and man she's Wow, it's really cool stuff. So anyway

Yeah, that's what I would add to this and say, all right, we're going to increase our income. We're going to tighten down everything. We're going to have a new thought. We're going to get all of these credit cards tonight and have plastic surgery. And we're going to pay them at 100%. We're going to pay them so fast that they're in our review mirror and we get a life. But 48 months, man, that's ridiculous. That's like saying I'm going to jail. You get to go to jail for four years.

And you barely get to, you know, they bring the food and slide it under the bars. You know, no, thank you. I don't want to live like that. I want to get, I want cheese. No, man. The goal needs to be if you can find an extra, if you can make a goal that we're going to make or she's going to make $1,700 extra dollars, find it every single month. What does it look like? Is it Amazon Flex? Is it tutoring? That pays it off in one year? Yeah. Is it childcare? Well, and is it, is it a cut in the budget? She makes 55 already. Yeah.

Yeah, so yeah, that's the kind of stuff we're doing Dan. So we're going to help you with that. It's the hard way, but it's the fast way. It's deep sacrifice, but it's in your review mirror and you get to have a great life on the other side of it versus signing up for a long slug through the mud. That's what we're doing. And at the end of it, at the end of the story, you're still screwed because you just completely destroyed everything as far as credit goes.

So she's probably gonna have some dings on her credit, probably already does, but nothing like what you'd be signing up for if you go to those type of a company. So we do not recommend them at all. Hang on the line, the team will pick up and we will get you signed up for Financial Peace University, get her signed up. You guys, you can go through the class together, but you need your own separate budgets because you're not married yet and you keep your finances separate until you're married.

So good question sir. I appreciate you checking on her behalf. Wow.

Those things are, uh, you see them on cable TV and man, there's a couple of them have been fined like 400. I mean, one of them got fined like it can't be 400 million. Was that the fine? There's some ridiculous one that, uh, Tom Selick endorsed and the federal trade commission hammered them with fines a couple of years ago because they just, they're, they're, it's just a scummy side of the world.

Yeah, it's gummy. And I don't like situations where you take control from you and give it to someone else to do things on your behalf. And what they're doing is acting like I didn't pay my bill so that they can get a discount. Yeah. I mean, in trashing my stuff in the meantime, but we're in the, uh,

We're in the debt relief business, just like Dave Ramsey. No, you're not. No, you're not. It's not even not even close, not even close to the same thing. So you have stay away from those things and they call themselves, uh, also really fit consolidation. Yeah. And it's not debt consolidation at all. You're not consolidating debt, consolidating debts when you get one debt and pay off all the others with the one debt. Well, you don't pay it off. You move it to the one debt, but that's like a home equity loan. That's debt consolidation.

But not paying them and you paying these goobers one payment. That's not consolidation at all. And it's really not debt relief. No, it's not relief. It's, um, well, at the end, I guess it is in one sense. But I wonder what the percentage of people that completed is probably pretty low. That's a good question. Interesting to look at. You don't finish it. You're really screwed. That puts us out of the Ramsey show in the books.

Hey, you're still here? What are you doing? You do know that the rest of today's show is playing right now over on the Ramsey Network app, right? All you gotta do to finish the episode is search Ramsey Network in the App Store, Google Play Store, or just click the link in the show notes to download the app for free. Yep, you heard me right, for free. Then right there on the home screen, you can watch the rest of today's show. Bada Bing, Bada Book. All right, I'm getting out of here. Enjoy, we'll see you on the app.