This is the GaryVee audio experience. Hey everybody, actually, if this podcast has ever meant anything to you, please go to Spotify or Apple right now and leave a review. By the way, even if you give me a one-star review because you think it's shit, I respect it, but just leave a review, an actual review. Four or five stars and the actual details of why, yeah, that would mean something for me, so thanks. It's really nice to have you here. Thank you so much for having me. Of course, why don't you tell everybody, let's do a little three, four minutes where I'll give you the mic where you get to everybody who you are and a little bit about your story.
Yeah, absolutely. Hi, everybody. I'm Vivian Tu, AKA your rich BFF and your favorite Wall Street Curly. I actually started my career trading equities, stocks at JP Morgan, did that for about two and a half years, ended up leaving the industry. I wanted to wear ripped jeans to work and make more money and have more flexibility. So what does a young person do? You go into media, you go into tech.
went to BuzzFeed and worked on the digital media strategy sales team for a minute there, covering entertainment and travel clients. And while I was there, all of my new friends and colleagues were like, okay, you came from Wall Street. Are our company stock options worth anything? Which health insurance plan did you pick? Can you help me rebalance my 401k? And I got so many of those same questions. I was like, you guys, you're annoying me during the day. Let me put this on the internet. You can watch the videos.
So got it. So yeah, you grow up. Did you think you were going to go to Wall Street as a kid? Um, you know, I, my parents are Chinese immigrants. So I kind of had the doctor, lawyer, engineer options and then finance year became the bonus fourth option. I went to U Chicago. So a lot of people do end up on Wall Street. I just wanted a job where I wasn't going to have to ask them for money ever again. I was going to be able to do what I wanted to do. And the idea of having a penthouse apartment in New York city certainly didn't hurt.
Got it. So it was right. So in that immigrant structure, that a lot of us know, then two, which I love hearing from you, you wanted to be off the payroll. So they had no say. Yeah, because you know, which I love, because I think it's the biggest issue that yes, the hypocrisy of kids being mad at their parents when they're on the payroll. But it was my mom. Yeah, if they pay, they have say,
And it's why I told my parents they could not contribute to my wedding. Love. Because I was like, you can't tell me which band to pick. You can't tell me what appetizer is nothing. It's a very real thing. Yeah. It's the best decision I made to when I was a kid and way too many people.
are such fucking hypocrites. They literally complain about their parents or involved in a medal. And the only reason your parents have any leverage besides you love them and you want to like is the payroll is the payroll. Get off the fucking payroll. So got it. You went to this great school. You were obviously a good student. You knew you wanted to be off the payroll and you wanted to live have independence. And you're like, cool, finance. Also, if I crush, it can get real real. Yeah, let me consider that. You get into a couple of years and you just realize there was other things you wanted to scratch.
Not so much that, but I think a lot of us joined. Did you like it? I did at the beginning. I had a really great mentor, really great manager. As Wall Street shakeups do happen, the head of my desk ended up getting let go, brought in a completely new guy, fired half the team. Suddenly the team looks very different. Then I end up getting assigned to a new manager who
It didn't click. It didn't click, but also he made some real nasty comments. They were like, you're too girly to be here and didn't like how my nails clicked on the keyboard, didn't like. Oh, so like really went old school that way? Very old school. And like, you're like, fuck this shit. Yeah, like I shouldn't have to put up with that. Like I know how smart I am. I know what I can bring to the table. And like, that's the bare minimum, right? Like you shouldn't say shit like that to me. Right. So right. So you know, fuck you. I have options. Yeah. You decided the jeans. Let me see what the buzzfeed selling this that. Yeah.
when you get there, a bunch of kids. And because you were in an environment that did have financial literacy, now you got a real look at the broader world. Everybody else. And you're like, fuck, no one knows shit. Nobody knows anything. Right. And and obviously tongue in cheek. This is annoying. I'm getting asked a lot. Let me make some videos for you all. You also, because you're at BuzzFeed and because you're a human in society at this point.
You knew that and maybe some of this content will click and it may open up other opportunities and doors Not even I really made this as like a hey, this is gonna be like a fun little passion But you are smart enough to know yeah, I would I that makes sense I think a lot of people are making content of like fantasy sports and yeah like I that I can buy
But I can't buy back to your point of like, fuck you, I have options, don't make fun of my clicking, that you had to know and some of these may click and it may lead for things for me to think about. I think it had to be in the back of your head. You weren't delusional. Yes, a tiny piece of my mind was like, maybe my content goes amazingly viral and this can become something, but I certainly wasn't. There's a point banking on this that I respect.
But the point I'm making is I believe it is, let me use an interesting term, I believe that it is grossly negligent as a human in society today to not post videos around your singular either knowledge base or passion base.
I think it makes borderline no sense. I'm aware of insecurity and worried about what people look like, worried about negative comments, mental health. Like if you get negative, most people don't have enough self-esteem to deal with the no views or I know why people don't do it. But I believe it's insane.
There's just so much opportunity to correct and this windows real and like the fact that that like I also think that people like things people like Star Trek people like the Avengers people like wine people like bourbon people like cooking people like here's the other things please there are
influencers that are truly influencing and their brand is themselves, which I think is so incredibly challenging. These are people like the Alex Earls, the tinks of the world. But for all the rest of us, I don't have to put every single personal detail about myself out there, to your point, knowledge base or passion base. It's such an easy way to get into this world that so many people, what is it, the status like,
Students or children, like 15 to 18 right now, like 50% of them want to be YouTubers. More, more, more. This is how you get in. As a matter of fact, I think the people that are living their lives like reality TV will continue to decline because that is the hardest game. Correct. Once you give the world your life, you don't have one.
And it gets picked apart. I am wildly out there for the last seven years. For the last 17 years, I have posted on the internet every day. Yeah, I am out there. I have plenty of followers. I don't post anything about my personal life. Yeah.
So I think a lot of people think you have to go there. I've never posted my children in my life. People don't realize you're in full control. Anyway, the reason I wanted to rant on that is I just love that you had a knowledge base.
You did some stuff, like you have options now, whether you want to like, I just like optionality. Yeah. Okay. It's freedom. It's the same reason why you want to have money. The same reason why you want to have. How fast did the first one was the first? So you started posting where? Yes. To talk Instagram. You do. Okay. First video, January 1st, 2021, first seven hours, I think the video got seven views. Then that night I'm watching a movie with my now fiance and my phone starts to get like hot. You know, like when you're falling over heat, my phone's always hot.
Right. Exactly. Phone starts buzzing off the hook. Like, I'm like, what's going on? I'm like, that's weird. I have 7,000 followers. That's way more followers than I have on my personal Instagram. And I'm like, I don't even know if I know that many people. So real talk, which is insane. Yes. Real talk. You're one of those people I talked about six, seven years ago for TikTok. That literally actually first video hit.
First video went viral. And by the way, for everyone who's watching and listening, that game is not as real now. You were back to your background? Yeah. You were day trading attention. Correct. So literally the first one hit. First one, 3 million views, 100,000 followers by the end of the week. Were you like, what the fuck? Yeah. But you knew that was in play, but you didn't think it would be the first one.
I really don't know how in play I thought it was going to be. I thought if anything, like, I would do it for a couple months and slowly build an audience, like a normal person. Yes. But then I actually- So what happens, like, tell me what happens in the morning you wake up on Tuesday or whatever the fuck it was.
I'm just like, oh, shoot. So I call such a real life example, like reaction. I call my girlfriend, who was the biggest influencer I knew at the time. And I say that in quotes, she is a, you know, 10,000 person following food blog on Instagram. She's a micro influencer. Which is huge for the normal world we live in. So you called her and said, what do I do? I'm like, I'm like, girly. Like, what do I do now? And she's like,
You have to keep making content. I'm like, about what? And she's like, I don't know, you got to figure it out. Read the comments. What do people want you to talk about? All that. Use it as a renewable resource. Every video begets more questions, begets more content. And so I call that PCS thing at VaynerMedia. Post creative strategy. Read all the comments. Decide what to make next.
Exactly. And so I start making videos about all of these topics, and I start to actually develop a content strategy in that like, there are certain pieces of content that hit, and then there are certain pieces of content that didn't. And the stuff that didn't, I let it go, and the stuff that did, I made more of it. That's right. I made more of it. That's right. And then, are you in a place where you, one thing I would say when I hear that, because intuitively did everything right,
And even now, today, this is like advice for today, take it or leave it. Always give yourself a little room to do a wide cut. Yeah, you have to. Yeah, you have to. Because that's where people are getting hurt once they hit a certain level. Because part of your content needs to serve your existing audience. And then the other part needs to find you a new audience. Correct. And so I was always doing some weird shit. And the rest of it, I was like, oh, hack video. So what happens next?
So you do that, so you start building. Start building. You're working at Buzzfeed. I'm working at Buzzfeed full time and I work there for a year and three months full time while sort of building up your rich BFF. I'm doing some great deals. Are they aware that something's brewing? They're like, do you want to team up or do some stuff here? I actually cleared it with the legal team and compliance team because I was an employee there.
a professional. Yeah. By the way, notice how like a young professional knew what to do. That's what the JP Morgan stuff does for you. Yeah. All these kids are like, literally some kid that we found out had three jobs at VaynerMedia because that, you know, that's what happened in the COVID. When I like spoke to him, he's like, what? I'm like, what do you mean what?
Yeah. But I have the, I'm not trying to get sued mentality. Yes. I actually go back and I'm like, oh, is this okay? They're looking at me like I am small potato. So they're like, no worries. Go for it, girlfriend. I'm like, okay, cool. And then it starts to be bigger. And I had a little work credit for BuzzFeed today because I've known them a long time. Yes, comma.
They also are a culture of that stuff. And in the back of their mind are like, well, if it gets big, maybe we'll have a different conversation six weeks. Exactly. Exactly. If we're being fair. Yeah. So I start taking a couple of deals. I'm building it a year and three months and I'm like, I fucking hate this. I hate working at BuzzFeed. I hate doing your HPFF. I hate everything. You hate everything. I hate everything. Oh, you're about to move.
And so then I had a conversation with my fiance and he's like, do you think that you don't hate everything? You just hate the fact that you're working five days a week at a normal job, spending all of Saturday ideating content and spending all of Sunday filming it. You haven't taken a break in a year now. Like maybe you want to go on vacation. Good for him. And we had a pretty candid conversation. And I was like, listen, like at Buzzfeed, I was making a lot of money, like upwards of $600,000.
Right. Cause you were in sales. I was in sales and I was one of the top players. So I was making a ton of money and I was like, well, you know, am I ever going to be able to make that much money doing your rich BFF stuff? Like, is that even a reality for me? Did you have the logical combo of like, I need to scratch this itch and even if rich, you know, BFF fails, I'll be able to go get another job because of who I am at some point. Gary, you're out here stealing my thunder. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Yeah. No. So basically we had this conversation and my thought was like, listen, like I've done a good job. My boss loves me. The company loves me.
They would hire me again. And so would, oh, by the way. And so would, yes. You know, all of these other competitors, all of these platforms, I get 15 minutes of fame. I get this flash in the pan moment of, do I take this or not? And I'm sorry to interrupt. I know everybody gets mad when I do, but I can't help because I want people to get inspired. I believe this flash in a pan and 15 minutes of fame. You can extend it. Not only that, yes, and I love you for jumping in.
I don't think it's what we all grew up with. I'm gonna say it again. I think it's practical now, not an anomaly. I think you're the preview, not the enigma. This has been my biggest thesis for 15 years and now it's really playing out. To me, your story is the norm.
I believe the long tail of influence personal brand proper I believe every human is about to be the small business Yes, just like there's eight trillion small businesses not everyone becomes fucking Verizon and yeah and BMW Yeah, but there's a brilliant small businesses. I believe the small business application of personal brand and the micro influencers. It's real estate
And personal branding is so great. And so this is why when someone who's so inspiring and doing it says, I've got this flash in a pan. I got this 15 minutes. I like to jump in because I need these people listening, especially the million that will listen to this podcast over the next 12 months to understand this is not a miracle. This is not far fetched. This is the internet is at a scale now.
Yeah. Distribution of information is in a place with social algorithms. You could have never done what you did if TikTok wasn't around. No. I was there when Facebook and Twitter and YouTube was the case. You had to build a list and then people would see. It did take four years. Yeah.
Now, one post, because of the way, yeah. Because of that explore page. Go ahead. So? So I end up quitting my job. I bank $100,000 in cash. I mean, that's my parachute money. Yep. Didn't need it. I end up crushing it. And last year, I think the reported number, what we actually collected was probably close to $4 million in terms of revenue for the company. What are the revenue streams?
So obviously, we've got just the platforms paying us little to nothing. Brand partnerships is a huge chunk. Book advance. I got a pretty healthy advance. Makes sense. Podcast ads. Yeah, makes sense. I do quite a bit of speaking. Love. And then right now in the works, we're working on some TV stuff. Good for you. Yeah. On the speaking part without just because I'm always business developing, you should definitely talk to Vayner speakers. You may be thrilled with who you're talking to, but we're really crushing. I love that.
what's the book about and why should everybody who's listening by it because i genuinely obviously we have some mutual friends
But I can't comprehend anyone listening to the last 20 minutes, not realizing that you are wildly sharp as fucking super capable. So I'm going to assume, because I continue to, it's scary to me what I put in day trading attention for like 20 bucks. Like literally companies pay me $500,000 for an hour of what I put in this book for 20 bucks. I continue to believe now that books
are like the weirdest best deal in the world? Yes. Because people like ourselves don't want to write a shitty book because it's pride. Yes. And then thus rendering the content very valuable. Yeah. And the cost is nothing. Correct. So my intuition is that every person that listens to this podcast ever should buy it based on you. So I guess that's how I buy books, even though I don't buy books. That's how I would buy books because I don't read them. But that's how I would process if I was a reader.
Above and beyond that you're epic, what one or three things are going on in the book that you think for the general public, which as you know, one of the reasons you blew up is people don't know shit about finances in America and the world. What are the one to three things in there that you think stand out of why it's hitting?
Well, I think why it's hitting is you talk about, you know, you're charging these businesses. You know all of those people on the internet who are charging thousands of dollars for personal finance courses or investing courses. Again, this is a New York Times best-selling book that is now sold 70,000 copies.
you can get this for free at your library. You can get it for like 20 bucks on Amazon. This book is the blueprint 101 to personal finance. Yes, but basically the book is a personal finance 101. If you know nothing about managing your money, if you know nothing about being smart with your finances, you can read this book, read it from page one to the very last page, walk away feeling confident, capable, and ready to take on your financial journey. It's broken into two halves. First half is I work hard for my money. So we cover
a big explanation of the current state of macro and micro economic affairs in languages that you'll understand. And then I break down how to ask for more money at work and why you should be asking how to budget better without giving up everything that you love. And then we move on to the really exciting part of the book, which is my money works hard for me. And this is the, how do I save better? How do I save more effectively? Again, without giving up everything I love. How do I make sure that I have money for future me?
And then I love the title that I chose for chapter five, which is the investing chapter. I wasn't born rich, but my kids will be because investing is truly going to unlock the ability for every single person to be a two income household. And it lets you truly maximize everything that you already have coming in the door without working harder, without spending too much more time. And I walk through every single asset class, how to pick a brokerage, how to pick an account,
how to pick investments, how to be mindful of all of what you're doing, and I even give you a cheat if you don't want to do any of that shit and you want to take 45 minutes and take a quick quiz, I break down how to do it for you. Good for you. And then last chapter, financial domination, all the stuff that doesn't fit neatly into a box. We talk about taxes, we talk about credit scores, we talk about paying down debt. And a really important thing that I think a lot of books miss out on is how does emotion play into money?
Let's actually talk about that because that's the part that I'm most interested in. People buy shit to fill gaps. Yeah.
Do you touch on that a little bit? Like why they buy a designer bag when they can't afford it, but they need it to peacock, they get the quick endorphin hit, and then they need it to like signal to the world, like, no, I'm not a loser, I have a Chanel bag. Like, do you go there a little bit? Yeah, I do. And I'm not, you know, like, it's a book in itself. I'm curious on how much, if any, you touch on it. Yeah. Because everyone's gonna say, I can't save, I can't invest. I'm like, you sure can. Like, don't buy the new iPhone every time it comes out. Yeah.
of there is actually a phenomenon coined by Estee Lauder as the lipstick index in that during times of financial downturn, you actually see the purchases and the revenue for companies that sell little treats. That's right. Ticquering the Great Depression. Yep. Make-up. Perfect. Yeah. Exactly. Little hits. Little treat. Little treat. Yeah. Not private planes, but just makeup. That was the luxury.
And when you can afford the flat screen TV, much less the car, much less the home, a little hit will give you the dopamine that you need, but it prevents you from getting to these bigger goals. When you are really in debt and you are buying a $19 cocktail at Happy Hour.
there's that you've got to figure that shit out. That constant Uber, seamless Starbucks, it fucking adds up and our society currently has decided that that's a necessity, not a luxury.
Yep, but I also address the flip side of that conversation. I heard you. I heard you, which I love. The little stuff matters. It does. It's death by a thousand paper cuts and you get a coffee every single day and you get the Uber every day, whatever. But there's also a school of thought that says,
make sure when you take the big swings, you are negotiating your ass off, because if you can get $50,000 off of the purchase price of your home, it's $50,000. That's $50,000. If you get $70,000 more in your salary, it's $3,500 more. Well, actually, my tax bracket.
much more than that for the normal purchase. Yes, and it's so much easier to make more money or save big bucks when you're buying the big ticket items versus trying to nickel and dime yourself. Because I do think you're allowed to have a little treat, but to your point, if you have too many little treats too many days a week, it really can hold you back. Hi, everybody. We got a couple minutes left. Give me a hot take on anything financial that's got your attention.
Ooh. And I'm not looking for you to predict something because that I think is silly. Yeah. I'm talking more like anything that's on your mind in the game of like, have you paid attention to this or here's the reason that or is there anything that you as a thinker of finances are like hot on or that's kind of clever out there right now?
Yeah, you guys want to time travel. Always. You can still contribute to that Roth IRA and to your retirement accounts for last year before the tax date.
Love. And that way, you still can have it basically essentially count for last year. Right. And a lot of people think that when 1231 hits, it's over. Actually, excuse me, you can contribute to your IRA so that you can actually get a taxable benefit from last year's taxes versus this year having to beat 2024. So you can time travel. And I think that's really good. Yeah, because for a lot of people, they don't know how they're going to splurge.
especially if they're working tight. They don't know what the holidays are going to look like. But now on February 7th, you've got a little bit of a feel. If you're into the year a little bit, you know, if you have job stability or you never know. But like, of course, you know, things like that. Go ahead and kiss them. Yeah. I see you. Yeah, please guarantee you comes true. So you have a prediction that you're very hot on.
No, I am certain. Great. Well, good news. When it happens, we'll clip this and if it doesn't happen, we'll definitely clip this. Right. I will say you're going to be like, oh, well, that's like a soft prediction, but like it's true. That's OK. So there's a current trend going on called loud budgeting.
And I think that it is here to stay and it'll actually become a very pervasive thing in our communities. So for people who aren't chronically online, loud budgeting is essentially where it is now socially acceptable for you to talk about your financial goals with your friends and use them
as an excuse to get out of social obligations out of things that are going to cost money. So suddenly transparency and vulnerability will lead to less discomfort in the long term, maybe a little bit on the upfront, which will allow you to not have to keep up with the Joneses and have the stigma, which will allow you to budget better. Exactly. And I do think that
with the next generation, we're just more honest. 100%. In some ways. We're not embarrassed. In some ways, we're remarkably more honest, which is why I love Gen Z and Gen Alpha. In other ways, we're more clever. I'm sorry, I feel like I'm so hard. I'm an old fucking, but dude, compared to these kids, but I love these kids, but they're a little more clever. They're all so good at PR.
that they're outflanking some of their boomer parents and Gen Xers, but the reality is I see them. The hypocrisy is extraordinary, but you're right. There's a lot of things they're more vulnerable and transparent about, but they're also
The lack of accountability and entitlement is a blind spot. And then we're talking general. Yes. But I agree with you. They're incredibly, they're creating some incredible frameworks that are going to work for them. And I'm excited about that. I root for them heavy, especially Jen Alpha, because I love their cynicism towards Gen Z. These 10-year-olds are gangsters. They're also like, every generation scares me just a little bit more, but like in a good way. I agree. Thanks for being on. Thank you so much for having me. Cheers.
