This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Hello, it's Nick here in the Today podcast, do you? And it's a mole here alongside Nick. And Nick, we've got this wonderful tradition, haven't we, on the Today program. It's been going for many, many years where the Today program hands over the editorial reigns, astonishingly, frankly, to a group of guest editors. Yeah. And those lucky people get to work with our team of producers to create a program that explores the ideas and the issues that they really care about.
So this year we've got Baroness Floella Benjamin. She's now a Liberal Democrat peer, but of course she spent nearly 50 years on television. Dame Laura Kenny, Britain's most decorated female Olympian. Dwayne Fields. He's the explorer who has appointed a few months back as the Chief Scout. Professor Irene Tracy, Vice Chancellor of the University of Oxford. Frank Cottrell Boyce, Screenwriter, Children's Author, and UK Children's Laureate. And the former Conservative Chancellor, Sir Sajid Jaffin.
And they've been working up some absolutely magnificent goodies for you. So those special editions of today go out from Christmas Eve until New Year's Eve. And at the end of each program, the guest editor sits down for an interview with one of the presenters. So that could be Nick, could be me, could be our colleagues, Justin Webb and Emma Barnet. So what we're doing between now and the end of the year is bringing you extended versions of those conversations here on the Today podcast.
And there's something we do quite rarely on today, which is have the chance for a really relaxed, extended conversation with somebody about what they're thinking and why and what they learned from editing three hours worth of material to go out on the today program. So we do hope you enjoy them. We'll be both back with an episode on the 1st of January with a look at what to expect in 2025.
Our guest editor this Boxing Day is the Chief Scout, Dwayne Fields. Dwayne was born in Jamaica but grew up on an inner city estate in North London and turned away in his words from a life of weed, cocaine and guns. His programme covers homelessness, Dwayne spent time homeless himself as well as exploring the work of people inspired to care for the environment
But the overriding theme of his guest head, as you might expect from the Chief Scout, is volunteering. So when I sat down with Dwayne Fields, I asked him whether he'd use this program, not so much as Chief Scout, but as Chief Ambassador for the voluntary work done by young people in Scouting.
Absolutely. I strongly and truly believe in the power of scouting. And the power of scouting comes from the volunteers themselves. So for me, I couldn't guest edit without speaking about volunteering and the benefits that I've had and that the community generally have had as well. Now, you've told us some of your story as the program's gone on. But people who don't know, you may not know that that story begins.
for the first few years at least in Jamaica, a childhood which, when I've heard you talk about it in the past, seems to combine real material poverty and yet great richness in life. I love how you just put that actually. I was a kid who had very little in the way of clothing. I didn't have toys. We didn't have electricity, gas or running water in the house. In that sense, there was a lot of poverty.
But when you talk about the joy and the riches, all I can think about was the freedom I had to roll and the freedom I had to explore the environment I was in with the safety net of having someone who loved me that I could always run back to when I got bitten or stung or scratched by something.
And in a sense, when you talk to scout groups and you talk to those volunteers, are you in a sense thinking, I want some of what I had as a child and Jamaica? That's exactly it. The kids in towns and cities in Britain. That's exactly what I'm thinking. I'm thinking I had the benefits of the outdoors and of adventures as a kid. So I know the benefits and I want that for every other kid because I know it can have a real impact. In essence, that's what's delivered in scout groups up and down the country every single week.
And your experience of coming to this country while age six? Yes. For me it was shocking actually. I remember driving from the airport and the sky was grey and it was raining and I remember thinking, gosh, it doesn't normally rain for this long where I'm from. And I remember this like it was this morning. I ran through the house and I opened the curtains expecting to see the woodlands and the trees and the forests and there was nothing just a concrete space. And for me that was just a really devastating moment. I think I fell into childhood depression.
But I sense from the way you've described it in the past, the dislocation is less about the physical and more about the mental. What was it like growing up in the inner city?
I found it difficult. I made mistakes. I struggled to fit in for a very, very long time. As a way of fitting in, I laughed at jokes that weren't funny. I, you know, when the whole group of people said, oh, let's go left. I went left, even though my everything inside me was saying, go right. We don't want to be isolated. I was no different. And you spoke of a moment that changed everything.
Your phrase. Yes. A moment in which you were almost shot. Yes. I was about 21 years old living in North London. A moped that I'd built from scratch with my younger brother was stolen. I don't know whether it was out of sheer stupidity or frustration with what had basically become the status quo for where I live. I was frustrated to the point where I said, nope, I'm not having this anymore. Enough is enough. And I marched onto an estate to recover my stolen moped.
and one of the guys who'd stolen it pulled the gun out on me. He was about three or four meters away when he pulled the trigger and he caught the gun back and he pulled the trigger a second time. I was fortunate enough that the gun misfired twice. And you're sure he meant to shoot you? From that distance, the gun was clearly aimed at me. The gun, the trigger was pulled once and the fact that he caught it back showed his determination.
And you'd already survived being stabbed. I'd already been stabbed. Again, I've never carried a weapon or even a thought in malice, in fairness. So when you say that that moment changed everything, what went through your mind? For me, the main thing was my younger brother was with me and his life was potentially in danger. And I think sometimes when you have someone that you value as much, if not more than yourself,
and they are potentially at risk, you start to think about how you can mitigate that risk. And for me, the way to do that was by changing behavior on local or societal level. And I thought, right, I'm going to do something that gives me a platform where I can raise my voice and say, hey, there are other ways that we can conduct ourselves. There are challenges that you can overcome that will build up your confidence, your ability to impact and empower other people. And that will make you feel more of a sense of self-worth.
And you, as we heard, are inspired by individual moments of kindness. That incredibly powerful story you told. Yes. In your piece about homelessness. The train driver. Remind me what he said. So I just want to say kindness is something that's free. I would love for all of us to just hand out the tiniest moments or a few words of kind positive words every now and then. I was homeless and I'd spent the night sleeping on a train and this was the last night I was homeless.
And I was in a depot and the driver came on the train and he froze when he saw me and I froze when I saw him and he said, did you sleep there? And I said, yes, after a few words backwards and forwards, he looked at me and said, do you see this ring? And he said, it's a beautiful ring, isn't it? And I nodded yes again. And he said, for it to be a beautiful ring, it had to be burnt and battered and bent into shape. Maybe that's what you're going through. So I would just like to say, if anyone is going through anything tough this Christmas in particular, but generally,
maybe it's preparing you for something stronger. Don't go through it alone. Speak to somebody. It does get better. And you're also I think saying to people listening.
Can you show that moment of kindness like the train driver? Because you will know there are plenty of people who think, I don't want to get involved. I don't know how this guy will react. Oftentimes, people who are homeless, and this is from my experience, they just want to be seen to know that they're not, apart from society, say hello, say a few words, offer a couple of words of kindness, and oftentimes that will help them get through today. And in a sense, is that what inspires you as Chief Scout to say,
to young people, volunteer, do something for other people because actually it will help you as well as helping them. Well, one of the most amazing things about volunteering is it has so many far-reaching benefits. It benefits the volunteer, you learn skills, you build your confidence, you help other people. It's great for the community. The person who's receiving the volunteering, whether it's the young people within the scout movement,
They learn to be stronger, more confident. They build friendships. They develop their skills. The communities as a whole where you have more volunteers tend to function better. They tend to be a more close-knit community as well. So it benefits everyone. In the scout movement, we've got 145 plus thousand really great volunteers and every single week they go out to their groups and they make sure young people, 500,000 young people, learn some skills, have fun and build friendships.
And if you don't want to think about today's society, think about those 500,000 young people in tomorrow's society. And I know in the scouts, you've got an ask because they sometimes call it the government. You want them to help you make it easier for people to be volunteers, whether for the scouts or another voluntary body. What do you want?
We want organizations to give their employees 35 hours annually that they can dedicate to volunteering. We think it'll make a huge difference. People who volunteer tend to be happier. People who are happier tend to work more productively. So it's good for the person, it's good for the community and it's good for the organization. And just be clear, you're saying hours, not days.
Oh, absolutely. That distinction important. We want to make it very clear that just a small amount, a couple of hours a week, I mean, 35 hours a year works out to less than an hour a week to volunteer your time. We know how today's society, the cost of living, all the other challenges people have, it can all build up. We're asking for 35 hours per year. So many people listening.
will have their own memories of the scouts when they were in it, or indeed their kids or their grandkids. And they believe in the values, but you'll be well aware there are some who say,
And I put the word in inverted commas, scouting's gone woke. Scouting's too keen to fit in with the ideology of the day. There are some who say that because the scouting movement talks about people using their preferred pronouns, that this is, and I'm reading a post here, gender ideology, being pushed on to young people. What would you say to them?
I'd say scouting's been around for 117 or so years. Scouting is for everyone. And if you're coming there with a mindset to learn, to make friends and to build yours and the confidence of those around you, then there's a place in scouting for you. Scouting reflects society. That's what I'd say. And if there is somebody, a young person who says, you know, I don't know if I am comfortable calling myself a boy or a girl.
What does it matter? We're there for the same reason. We're there to have fun, make friends, learn and develop skills and develop confidence. I think lots of people will be comfortable with that, but they might think, I don't want the scout leader to tell my child that they ought to use, you know, she, her or they, them. That is imposing a kind of value set rather than merely being tolerant.
I just want to put everyone's mind at ease. I've been in the scouting movement now as a volunteer. I've done all the training the volunteers have done. I've been an ambassador now for going on eight years and I'm in the role of chief scout now as well. I've never heard of any volunteer telling a young person that they are or they them or anything else.
If a young person comes in and says, I would prefer to be called X, Y or Z, then that's what we do, because there is no need in creating the harm of trying to dissuade them. The same way a parent wouldn't want us to convince them of something, we don't want to dissuade them of anything that's not harmful. So it's quite an influential right-wing blogger. I call Matt Goodwin. There's a headline on the piece I'm reading, how scouting when woke? I still don't know. It's not.
Is it wrong? First of all, just tell me what you think Woke is in this instance. I don't know what Woke is. I don't know what it means. I don't subscribe to it. I just know that I treat people and the other volunteers and leaders treat people with respect when they walk through our doors. In terms of whatever the fashionable word is, now you'd have to explain it to me. I'm not
cool enough to know what the latest word is, whoa, or whatever else, but I would say this, just expect to be treated with respect, expect to have fun, build friendships, lifelong friendships. My oldest friend in the world I met in scouts when I was six years old going on seven, and he's still one of my best friends to this day. That's what I know about scouting.
Did scouting save you? Scouting saved me. I would not have had the confidence to say no to all those voices that were telling me you should go and get the guy that pulled the gun on you. If I hadn't been to scouts, I've spoken to people up and down this country thousands of young people and I've heard lots and lots of stories of how scouting has saved and impacted and improved their lives.
You picked a song to end this. Yes, yes, I have. Today, guest edit. Another day in Paradise. People know the Phil Collins. Yes, probably. Why that song? What does it mean to you? I picked that song because when I was homeless, I found it really easy to feel unseen, unheard, and to feel like I was separate from the society that I grew up in. And it speaks to just people walking past you because you're in a situation that you wouldn't necessarily choose. It's not a great place to be. And I think that song speaks to that.
Dwayne Fields, Chief Scout, Guest Editor of the Today program for today. Thank you so much. Thank you very much. It's been an honour and a pleasure. A brand new series, stress testing to destruction the buzzwords and phrases used and abused by politicians.
What do they actually mean? And I'm Helen Lewis. And like a couple of disgraced stage magicians recently kicked out of the magic circle, we'll be revealing all the verbal tricks of the trade. And singly at the worst examples of political double-speak. Strong message here from BBC Radio 4. Listen now on BBC Sounds.
Yoga is more than just exercise. It's the spiritual practice that millions swear by. And in 2017, Miranda, a university tutor from London, joins a yoga school that promises profound transformation. It felt a really safe and welcoming space. After the yoga classes, I felt amazing.
But soon, that calm, welcoming atmosphere leads to something far darker, a journey that leads to allegations of grooming, trafficking and exploitation across international borders. I don't have my passport, I don't have my phone, I don't have my bank cards, I have nothing. The passport being taken, being in a house and not feeling like they can leave.
World of Secrets is where untold stories are unveiled and hidden realities are exposed. In this new series, we're confronting the dark side of the wellness industry with the hope of a spiritual breakthrough gives way to disturbing accusations. You just get sucked in so gradually.
and it's done so skillfully that you don't realise. And it's like this, the secret that's there. I wanted to believe that, you know, that
whatever they were doing, even if it seemed gross to me, was for some spiritual reason that I couldn't yet understand. Revealing the hidden secrets of a global yoga network, I feel that I have no other choice. The only thing I can do is to speak about this and to put my reputation and everything else on the line. I want truth and justice.
and further people to not be hurt for things to be different in the future. To bring it into the light and almost alchemise some of that evil stuff that went on and take back the power. World of Secrets Season 6, the Bad Guru. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.
