Bonus: Baroness Floella Benjamin guest edits Today

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Hello, it's Nick here in the Today podcast, do you? And it's a mole here alongside Nick. And Nick, we've got this wonderful tradition, haven't we, on the Today program. It's been going for many, many years where the Today program hands over the editorial reigns, astonishingly, frankly, to a group of guest editors. Yeah. And those lucky people get to work with our team of producers to create a program that explores the ideas and the issues that they really care about.

So this year we've got Baroness Floella Benjamin. She's now a Liberal Democrat peer, but of course she spent nearly 50 years on television. Dame Laura Kenny, Britain's most decorated female Olympian. Dwayne Fields. He's the explorer who has appointed a few months back as the Chief Scout. Professor Irene Tracy, Vice Chancellor of the University of Oxford. Frank Cottrell Boyce, Screenwriter, Children's Author, and UK Children's Laureate. And the former Conservative Chancellor, Sir Sajid Jaffin.

And they've been working up some absolutely magnificent goodies for you. So those special editions of today go out from Christmas Eve until New Year's Eve. And at the end of each program, the guest editor sits down for an interview with one of the presenters. So that could be Nick, could be me, could be our colleagues, Justin Webb and Emma Barnet. So what we're doing between now and the end of the year is bringing you extended versions of those conversations here on the Today podcast.

And there's something we do quite rarely on today, which is have the chance for a really relaxed, extended conversation with somebody about what they're thinking and why and what they learned from editing three hours worth of material to go out on the today program. So we do hope you enjoy them. We'll be both back with an episode on the 1st of January with a look at what to expect in 2025. BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts.

Well, our guest editor today is has been the presenter, actor, campaigner and liberal democrat peer Baroness Floella Benjamin. She's chosen to use her guest edit of the today programme to focus on children and also on how broadcasters and tech companies can help children navigate modern life. I asked Baroness Benjamin how she had found the experience of being a today guest editor. One of the most exciting things I've ever had to do

This is my dream, to talk about something that I'm passionate about, children. Every time I make a speech, wherever in the country, my mantra is childhood, last, a lifetime. Because when you think about childhood, you can explore it in so many different ways, because everything affects children one way or another, directly and indirectly.

Well, you've been a campaigner for children for a long time, including in the Lords. But I wonder if you'll forgive the effortless segue if we could begin with your own childhood. A lot of people still won't know that in 1960, on platform 19 of Waterloo Station in South London, a young Floella Benjamin turned up. Do you remember the moment in Trinidad where you were born, where you were told that you were going to be going to another country?

I do and it makes me weep because it meant that my mom and dad were going to leave me behind with my sister Sandra with two sets of the most awful foster parents. And every time I think about it or I do a talk about it, a tear comes into my eye because I remember the moment of being left

But I could cope with the separation because I knew I was loved, because every day my mum used to tell us that she loved us. He said, I love all of you, giving us hugs, creaming our skins down, pouring cod liver all into us. Why do you know you're loved?

you know you can cope with life. As I said, childhood lasts a lifetime, and each child is born with over 84 billion brain cells with no connections. By the time they're 18 months, the connections have started touch, feel, smell, what we feed them, what we show them. By the time they're seven clunk, they are made. So the saying, give me a child at the age of seven, and I'll show you the man or the woman has scientifically been proven to be true.

And how old were you when your mum was saying that, but you were also being told with this enormous trauma, really, that you're going to be heading for England? I was eight. You know, I had got that foundation laid in me, knowing that I was important, knowing I was loved, knowing that I belonged. So those formative years are so important in a child's life and a child's well-being, but also for you as an adult. Of course. To cope with that.

Well, as a father of four children from eight to 18 months, I'm feeling an enormous amount of pressure when you say what you say, but also a sense of privilege. Just before we talk about modern children, what do you remember of turning up at Platform 19 in Waterloo? I remember.

the people in bowler hats and umbrellas and briefcases rushing around in this huge cathedral-like building. Little did I realize then that 62 years later, I would be in charge of putting up the National Windrush Monument near Platform 19 to celebrate the contribution Caribbean people have made to Britain. Who would have thought? That's why I tell children, always have hope in your heart. And I just felt

happy and secure to be in the land that I'd love from afar because back in Trinidad we learnt all about England, British history, British heroes, British poets and I felt I'm very much part of Britain. I was British. That's a beautiful segue for you to perhaps come to your first reading from your book Coming to England and this is about Christmas time and I wonder if you'd just be kind enough to read a little extract for our listeners.

I was awakened by a stillness, an eerie quietness, a strong clear light shone through the curtains, not the usual murky greenness, but a mysterious light. I sensed something was different about this day, as I slowly went to the window and wiped the thick condensation off the inside of the pain. Then I saw it.

A pure white blanket that dazzled me. It was a whiteness I'd never seen before, and everything was covered in it. I gasped with wonderment. The landscape looked so beautiful. It took my breath away. It was the first time in my life I had seen it. And it was magical.

It's so beautiful and I wonder if when you come to write your next set of memoirs, they should be called a mysterious light. What a wonderful phrase.

How did a young girl on platform 19 of the Waterloo come to work for the BBC? Because a huge number of people that know you now will know your Liberal Democrat peer in the House of Lords. But for not just one generation, but several generations, you were really an icon of British television at a time when children's television was watched by the entire family. And you were a pioneer because you were a black woman who was so prominent, so successful and so adored. How did you come to work for the BBC?

I was in a show called The Black Mercado with Derek Griffiths. He was a presenter on Play School as well. We got on really well, and he actually said, go for it. And I remember going for this audition. I wore this bubbly wig because I had my hair in plats and beads. And I'm not sure if the BBC is going to like plats and beads. And I'm trying to impress the producer. And I don't think I really was enough to get the job. So I went forward and I said, oh, by the way,

I don't really look like this, you know. This is what I really look like and I whip my wig off and down came these beads and she went, that's fantastic. I got a camera audition and the rest is history. I became known as the lady with the blue beads. Well, if I asked you what you were doing on the 27th of September, 1976, could you have a guess what you were up to back then? That would be my first play school program. Have a listen to this. A house with a door.

And this is Floella. Hello. This leaf's almost as big as my hand. Bigger than my hand. Right. My voice is so posh. So posh. So just describe for our listeners what you've just been watching.

I've been watching a race of leaves with Johnny, Johnny Ball, playing for Humpty, my favorite toy on Play School, racing across the studio. I'm very competitive, so I had to win. And this is your very first appearance. I mean, as TV goes, that's not overly scripted, is it? I mean, there's a lot of kind of personality that has to come through. And you are wearing the same necklace.

Oh, my heart. Yes. It's nearly 50 years ago. It's 48 years ago. My darling husband, Keith, that was his first present to me 54 years ago when we started going out together. I've worn it ever since. And a lot of people tell me when they were children, they used to rub the heart on the screen because they thought it was a magic heart.

Your theme for your guest editing of today is childhood. Why do you say, as I've heard you say, I believe in the Lords and elsewhere, that there is a difference between being childish and childlike? Play school taught me a huge lesson, and I suddenly thought I've got to start looking at life through the eyes of the child. Not to be childish,

but to have that vision of seeing things for the first time, that innocence that gets you to a place where you can open your mind to see things with hope, to see things in a way that can make you feel uplifted.

When you were on children's TV, there weren't many places for children to go and millions of them came to the programs that you were making. These days they've got options all over the place, streaming platforms, social media, phones and so forth. How worried or how positive are you about the state of children's TV today?

I feel that children's programs, as we know them, is in crisis, in turmoil, because children are migrating to online platforms, unregulated platforms, and watching mainly adult material, which for some could be detrimental to their well-being.

We spoke for your program to the culture's actually Lisa Nandi, and I want in the spirit of fairness to put what she said. She said that platforms like YouTube actually have an almost democratizing power because they allow young people to share their content. Fine, yes. Young people can share their content, but they're also exposed to other content that they shouldn't be exposed to. What's happened to our children's writers? What's happened to our children's producers, our children's directors? It's all gone.

Has it all gone though? My children, the ones that are old enough, are obsessed with the program on the BBC iPlayer, which I genuinely think is astonishingly brilliant. It's called Maddy's Do You Know? Maddy Mote basically does these 15-minute access documentaries about the home or about plants or about the world. And that's there on iPlayer. So has the scene been as sort of devastated as you describe?

What's happened is that you can watch things that are an eye player. But what's not happening is making things for now, not enough. When you look at the schedule that we used to have, programs used to start at four o'clock and went on until six o'clock. Where now is Grange Hill, biker Grove, Tracy Beaker, press gang, where all the documentaries happening, the diversity, the programs that we had was vast. Now there's only the odd program here and there, which is not good enough.

Well, Lisa Nandy, the Culture Secretary, who after all is the Secretary of State in charge of this, has told the Today program, specifically for your guest edit of the Today program, that she has written to streamers like YouTube to, and I quote, start a dialogue so that high quality content is given prominence. Does that give you any encouragement at all?

Well, I have been pushing YouTube and all the other platforms that needs to actually step up and think about what they're doing for children. So it's good that Lisa has got that on our radar because we need to make sure that our children are not left behind. What I want to say to them, you've got a moral duty, you've got to act with morality, with integrity, and to be thinking about what you're doing for our children.

Well, one of the other big issues that a lot of young people are very concerned about because they don't always feel that they've got the agency to do anything about it is climate change. And I know that you are very keen for us to get voices from the Caribbean into your program. And we actually asked our correspondent, Will Grant, who's based in that part of the world to report from Barbados on climate change.

But why was it so important for you to make sure that voices from all around the world were in your guest edit? Because we're all connected. We mustn't just look at our shores. We've got to think about what we're doing here, which is affecting people over there. Because of my roots in the Caribbean.

Caribbean voices are often not heard. Very rarely do you see anything about the Caribbean unless there's some sort of disaster. And I wanted the voices of those children for you to have empathy and understanding. So when you hear their voices, you're thinking, my goodness, that could be me. Do you think when you reflect on your 50 odd years in various ways working with children, do you feel more or less optimistic about the outlook for our young people these days?

I'm an optimist. We are custodians of the world now, and we mustn't leave a dustbin for the next generation. We've got to make sure we do it right. And so I am very optimistic that now there's a rude awakening for many people on many different issues to suddenly see

Yes, we need to make change because the young people are telling us, we want a world to live in that's going to make us feel good about who we are. We need to feel uplifted and we also feel like Barack Obama is to say, yes, you can. Yes, we must. Now, my final question, it's not really a question, it's more of a thought, is that I know, famously, including the last time that we met, that at the end of most interviews, and indeed, when you were a chancellor at Exeter University, you're very keen on hugs.

Yes, a hug a day keeps the doctor away. I'm quite keen on hugs. Am I going to sacrifice my impartiality if I ask you for a hug? Am I allowed to do that? Of course, of course. Well, for 10 years, I was Chancellor and I did every single graduation ceremony and I would hug the graduates each one and I'd say change the world, make a difference. Can I just say on behalf of the listeners and the team on the Today program, we feel very honoured that you've given the Today program a hug is guest editor. So thank you so much.

Oh, thank you. And I'm hugging all the listeners out there too. Big, big hug. I'm going to embody a listener right now by coming in for a while. What a pleasure.

I'm Michael Gove, in a new series for Radio 4, I'll be discussing how to survive politics. I'll be joined by fellow politicians to discuss how politics really works. It is only because of your principles that it is worthwhile. We'll be talking about how to build alliances. You're all trying to make the world a better place and you have quite a lot in common. How to cope with being unpopular and how to stick to your principles when things get tough.

Faith family and friends are very important. There's been a time when you felt betrayed, do you think you've ever done the betraying?

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