An Unfiltered Conversation with BBNo$ | Being Broke, Cashing Out, & Getting Screwed

You DM'd us and you said, I am the one who has no money. Well, it's baby, no money. Tell us, how do you have no money? I am the purest form cheapest human being ever. I can turn around and be like, here's $40,000 for a music video. Let's go blow it. Go make art. I don't think I spent $40,000 on myself in the past four years.

So what do the finances look like today, like getting 10 million streams on Spotify? The revenue that was making from streaming royalties in online plays. What? So our field took one of my songs and used it as their trailer. And I was like out in Japan, like when I checked my phone, they're like, boom, 300,000 on. Just like that. I was like hitting me. Garfield?

I'm aiming to do this like 33 stop tour in Europe, and it will net me negative $127,000. So why do it? You give your fans an experience and their fans' room. UDM, and you said, I am the one who has no money. Yeah. Well, it's baby, no money. Right. Right. So you're the baby that has no money. Yeah. Tell us, how do you have no money? So basically,

I grew up in a family that might as an immigrant parent and the financial concept of what we grew up in and like the complex is like you put a house over your head and you feed your family. That's it. It's money is there to like be a protective measure.

and I think it just really distilled into me. I don't know. I remember in high school, when all my friends would go out, they'd be like, hey, we're going to bring some money and go party and then eat at McDonald's. I would bring nuts because I knew that they were high in fats, so I wouldn't have to have as bad of a hangover. I wouldn't drink Chase because it was too expensive. I am the purest form, cheapest human being.

Ever, like I bought, I bought like a $200 pair of jeans and all my friends were like, dude, what the fuck is wrong with you? And I'm like, I don't know. I still find econ like, I just can't spend money. I have like a weird psychological like affix or suffix. I don't even know of like just the inability to spend money.

I'm the exact same way, it doesn't seem like that, but everything I buy is designed to run making money, everything. So if I can't make money from it or get it a good enough deal, like I was talking to Jack about there's a car, I don't really want the car, but I'm like, hey, if I get this car at this price, I can't say no to it. Did I have to do it because it's worth so much more and I'm not gonna lose money. I see every purchase like that, everything. I don't know what it is, I don't know, sometimes I'm like,

I should just fly for his class because it's literally going to kill my body and time is the most valuable asset. So, you know, you got to weigh out the options. But it's like, sometimes I just don't know why I have this block. And I see my brother, for instance, and he lives in Copenhagen. And every, I feel like perspective, like a living perspective in Europe is like you work to live, whereas in America, you live to work. And

He's always pressed me on it. He's like, dude, go buy me beers. You got to go buy me beers. And I'm like, dude, I don't know. I feel weird doing that. If I'm not getting something out of it, it should be 50-50 or something like that. You know what I mean? I don't know what it is. I've been talking to my therapist about this shit, too. And it's been an interesting dynamic that I've had to find with every single person that I work with.

I hired a basically a bunch of my friends because why not just hire your friends and be closer with people that you love. And it's like weird because then you have like this power dynamic with the financials and then it's like, I'm just like, I usually just call my friends like, all right, how much money do you want? Just tell me and I'll just give it to you. I don't really care.

And it's weird because when it comes to a financial perspective with my job, I can turn around and be like, here's $40,000 for a music video. Let's go blow it, like go make art. And then $40,000, I don't think I spent $40,000 myself in the past four years.

I don't know what it is. Is there anything that you've started to splurge on? Because I think it's pretty safe to say that you have money now. I mean, with 10 million Spotify monthly listeners, I don't know what you're doing on Apple or YouTube or all of that stuff. You have to have money now. Is there anything that you're finally allowing yourself to splurge on?

Uh, nice food. That's it. It's like, what is nice food to you? Oh, like I'll go for like triple Michelin double Michelin. Oh, that's actually nice. Like really, really, really nice food. Wow. There's something that, you know, like sharing, like really, really nice sushi with people when you know all the experience is the exact same flavor, profiling in your mouth all at once. There's something to it.

I don't know what it is. And it's like sitting down with like 80 or friends and being like, all right, we just spent like $500, $600 a person. Oh crap. And we're just like looking at like this small little cracker on a plate and you get like 30 or 40 different plates. And you're just like, well, I get zero enjoyment from that. Really? Very little anxious about the price. Yeah. You can't enjoy himself if he knows he's spending a lot of money. Yeah. Exactly. See, I get that. I definitely get that.

But food, I don't know, it broke through. I don't know, maybe I've done too many hallucinations. We gotta take you down a notch and show you all you could eat. We gotta go back to Nando's. You can eat sushi here in Vegas. $30. All you could eat sushi, or there's a pokey spot. It's really, really, really good. They're like $17. Okay. That to me is better than that.

really expensive meals that I've eaten. It's not like, like, don't get me wrong. If there's like a $1 taco, call me crazy. Like, it's probably gonna be better than like a $50, $60 burger or someplace or somewhere else. You know what I mean? Like, I totally think that there's that. But I don't know. For some reason, like, just going out with a bunch of friends and really splurging on some, like a meal is like, I earned this. And that's the feeling I get at least, but I will totally appreciate. Like, I still love McDonald's.

You know, when you go to McDonald's, you get a McGang bang? I don't know if you... Yes! Stu McGang bang. Chicken and McDouble. Yeah, dude. So bustin'. Yeah. And I grew up on that. So it's like, when I go back, and I'm like, oh, you know what, guys? Let's feel terrible for the rest of the day. And you put him and McGang me together, and you're just like, wow, this is disgusting. We should go get one.

But you were mentioning too that was surprising that technically you're kind of homeless. You don't have a place anymore. Yeah, I'm like a nomad. It kind of sucks. I don't know. I don't really have another perspective. Basically, I live with my parents in Vancouver if I were to be home.

One, it's because whenever I was home anyway, I owned this apartment downtown Vancouver and I was just like, I could stay here or I could just be with my parents for like four days, the only time that I'm in Vancouver. So I just decided to sell it because I was like, there's no point of owning this and sold it.

I actually made, I made $25,000 on it after, after years, after like, this is after everything, like paying for a new roof, like all the fees and everything. So I ended up making some money on it, which was sick. And I was like, dude, before, you know, before I was 30, I already sold the apartment. That's great. You know, great accomplishment. So basically I live with my parents.

And I rent kind of in LA, but I don't really like stay anywhere. It kind of sucks. I don't really know us to say other than it's just uncomfortable sometimes because I'm like, I would love to have the longest I've ever stayed in a place in the past four years. It was like two months. So I don't really have any like regularity or like a schedule for like hotels all the time. Hotels Airbnb's like other people's couches.

Just like, just living. It's, it's weird, but it's also like everyone's always like, how do you only travel with like a carry on? I'm like, well, I don't, I spend a lot of time in airports. I don't want to spend an hour like waiting for a bag and or potentially being way longer than an hour. So it's like, you know, time, time, money, right? So. So what are the finances look like today, like getting 10 million streams on Spotify? Like, can you break us down? Like we know nothing about in this sort of industry. We can also guess.

Like how much 10 million monthly listeners, so your Spotify check only. I'm going to say, what do you think? I'm going to say per month with 10 million monthly listeners, 175,000 bucks a month.

No, dude, I'm going to guess like $500 a month. I'm Spotify. What? Yeah. Okay. So 10 million streams. There's so many very 10 million monthly listeners. So mother listeners, it's interesting because it's a very deceiving statistic or analytic because it actually doesn't matter. Like it literally doesn't mean anything. Right.

Because it's like for instance the weekend biggest artists in the world off streaming revenue off this off that you know he's the most recent artists this the so monthly listener is someone who comes back on this is a song twice within a month so basically idea so basically what that means is.

You can have a lot of monthly listeners, but not a bunch of daily streams, whereas like this collective or these two dudes called boys, they have about, I think, 14, 15 million monthly listeners, but they have like 10 million streams a day. I have 10 million monthly listeners and about 1.8 to 2 million streams a day.

So it really only matters with the amount of actual consumption rather than the fan listening more than... So their fans are listening like five times, six times, whereas my fans are listening like once. And how can you figure out that statistic or is that only like in the dashboard? It's in the dashboard. Okay. So basically like every million streams is about $3, $3,800.

So if I was streaming about 40, I think I streamed about 48 to 49 million streams a month on average. So it's like about 50. So, so a hundred, it's, it would be about 150,000. But I don't, I don't own all the royalties.

Some songs that are doing really well, for instance, one of my songs, one of my biggest songs ever at La La La, I sold that song when it was like taking off and I only own 25% of it from a label. Also labels, there's so many smoke in screens, like there's so many extra hidden fees, like it's for sure. Like every distribution is like,

They're scraping and every single company will do this. Typically, I would say on an average song, I end up having about on average, like 60% from my whole catalog of the royalties on the master side. So I would be making about like $2,700 out of these $3,800 per million. So I make about like five to six K kind of flat a day.

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Thank you so much, NetSuite, for sponsoring this episode, and now back to the podcast. I make about like five to six K kind of flat a day. Approximately. All right, you're close. I'm way off. Five hundred dollars a month. That is an abysmal guest. That is, that is, I was like, yeah, that's your way off, bro. He has a little bit of money. Clearly.

I had it in my notes here. A million streams of $33. That's crazy. Well, a million streams of a million streams on streaming of a song is way, way lower. The CPM on YouTube is like kaput. It's garbage. And it really also depends on where it's being streamed. So for instance, like India, Spotify subscription is. Oh, true. It's like 30 cents in India.

So every stream from India would be way less worth. Whereas in America, it's like $15 a month or something. I don't know. I don't even listen to music really. I don't even have a Spotify account. Sorry. Are you kidding me? Yeah, I don't. I legit have yet to use it. How do you listen to music? I don't listen to music. What do you listen to?

I actually don't really listen to music, just full song. What about like a podcast or like? I just kind of like chilling because my life is always music. It's always thinking about like whenever I listen to songs, I like it's kind of like finance.

It's like when someone talks about finance, it's like, that's on your mind. And when when I hear songs, I'm like, why is this song big? I need to like analyze the song. Whereas like, I can't even listen to it anymore. Obviously, some songs, I'll come on. I'm like, whoa, this is really good. This is super catchy. I like this. This like the synthetic sound here is really nice. Like it's so well mixed.

But I don't really like consume it as I used to. And I think that's just like a product of mine. Sounds like a job kind of when you're listening to music. Yeah. But I mean, it's also it also distills feeling for sure. But it's it's definitely less than it used to. Where was I? So going back to the money thing. So on YouTube, a million typically equates to about $700. So let's say you do a million on every single platform.

You're going to be looking at like, what's a million on like all the other ancelaries, probably another like $2,000. So you have like 3,800, 2,800. And then if you do a million on all of these streaming platforms, so like let's say you have like 5 million total streams on the publishing side, this is where it gets really complicated. Publishing has mechanical royalties and mechanical royalties, what that is, is like,

It's a royalty that I'm also not the most educated on this. Like people literally have their whole lives collecting mechanical royalties for like publishing companies. It's ridiculous. But basically it's like on these streaming platforms, they have these performance royalties that go out to all these publishing companies of songwriters. So if there is three people in the room and we write this song, it's kind of, it's called Nashville. Basically what it is is you split it three ways.

So we compose the song together, so 33, 33, and I will just typically take 34 because it's just easier to split it up that way, obviously. So that 800 would be split 33, 33, 33. And that's just a mechanical and then you have like.

sync royalties you have like if someone use it in the movie you have like extra royalties coming in. There is like so many un, unspoken nuances and like small little revenue generators in music that is like, so your mind. It just depends on where it's played. Played in a TV show pays this, paid in a movie it pays this. Now I'll have different splits.

So Garfield took one of my songs and use it as their trailer. And I was like out in Japan, like sitting in a, in a beautiful forest. I was like, man, I love Japan. And I checked my phone. I was like, boom, $300,000. Just like that. Are you kidding me? And I was like, ah, Garfield, I quit you. Did they, did you know that was coming? No, no, no. So it's just like, it's just like basically they reach out and they're like, we want to pay for this. But the thing is, I own 21% of that song.

on both sides. So 21% of $300,000 is, what is that like $67,000? So $67,000, but I didn't do really anything. I just made the song and luckily the song became a hit, but you see how like all these extra streams and revenues just keep on coming in.

Too hot to handle has used my songs all the time. And like, love is blind. Use my songs. And then they pay royalties, they pay out like a licensing fee. So you get like $5,000 just like that randomly. Boom. And you have agents that just negotiate this completely detached from you. You don't even know they're doing that. And then just randomly on a day, you'll get like a check from. It's just like typically Mondays and Tuesdays, I'm like, come on.

like the rock and then i'll just get an email or like a text from from like my publisher like a nr guy and he's like hey we got a big one i'm like movie let's go for dinner boys and that's kind of it it's sick and that's just like one constant that's like one small little

avenue. And it's interesting and really, really cool too because people make careers just out of that where they're like, I'm a sync writer. So I will make songs. There will be like a sync pitch and be like, Hey, we have like an action movie with Dwayne the Rock Johnson and we need Bing, bang, boom, boom type music. So people will be like a composer will be like, all right, let's try it. So it goes in the studio and makes like a song that sounds like what they want.

and then you might get it and you might not and they'll do to buy it full buy out of like a hundred thousand dollars and like people have full lives like that and it's like such a small little factor of what music is and it's like you can compose this compose that for ads and it's it's actually really cool once you like see how the the the back side of the music industry is it's like really really enjoyable there's so many so many avenues that you can create

So why does it seem like a lot of musicians say it's a horrible industry to be in? And it seems like just like the top 0.1% is reaping almost all the revenue. Well, I mean, OK, so on a touring perspective, it's a nightmare. So the AAA artists, they clean up like that's.

You know, Beyonce's out here doing like a hundred million dollars in a tour revenue, like Olivia Rodrigo was the highest grossing artists of our decade of more than Taylor Swift. Well, a new artist. Oh, like a new generation artist was a hundred ninety million dollars on her last tour and basically.

I was just telling you about the Subtronics guy. Basically, like, if you don't get to 5,000 capacity shows, which I'm going to be honest, I've been grinding my ass off for the eight, eight, nine years, it's hard. Like you need a ton of hits, like a string of hits or like crazy controversy, like crazy this crazy that and you just got to be on the ball 24 seven and like really cultivate that fan base.

If you don't do that and you tour at like a 2000 to 3000 capacity, like tour and you want to bring production and try to make it a cool experience for your fans, you are always in the red. I'm aiming to do this like 33 stop tour in Europe and it will net me negative $127,000. So why do it?

you give your fans an experience and their fans forever. And that's it. And like the only reason why I'm able to do this anyway is because of them.

It's really just a pat in the back. And like, sometimes I'm like, volunteering, it's exhausting. And you're like, that's volunteering. And volunteering. And I've done it, I've done it for so long. Like I, this, just this year, like I'm selling, I'm on track. I just listed a tour recently, like a, like a week ago and we sold out Toronto, probably the fastest I've ever sold out a show ever. And I felt like I was like, well, this is,

Things are on the up. This is great. And I'm on track to make like probably $40,000, $50,000 on a tour that's going to gross like a million, but they're just so many expenses. So it's just like a really, really interesting dynamic when you when you see the backend, you're like,

My understanding is that they'll pay you a big amount for one night, but then it's up to you to then pay out lighting and security and all the miscellaneous stuff with that. There's something called a guarantee. Typically, that's how most people take it. You can do dollar one deals at the door where you basically rent the venue and you just take all the risk.

Whereas a guarantee is like, I guarantee you $25,000 in your pocket. And then you, you budget the tour off of that. So you can have like a bus. So it's a little healthier for you. You can go to bed and then you bring lighting, lasers, you try to make an experience or as cool as an experience as possible. My main goal is try to make like a musical out of my music for the next tour. So my fans are just going to be really tried. Um, because the bar is really low at rap music to be real. Um, but.

I don't know like sometimes I get frustrated because I'm like I don't really want a tour not make any money anymore like it I've been doing it for like eight years basically so I'm just yeah kind of tired of that but at the same time it's also like the fuck is these experiences and it's like

It really is as cliche and corny as it may sound when I'm on stage and I see that many people just smiling and like giggling. I'm like, wow, that's crazy. Like I can actually distill happiness in people. And I have the ability to, I always wanted to be a doctor. I went to school for kinesiology before I did music.

And I just wanted to help people and the ability that I have to reach people and like actually emotionally touch them in a way where my music is, I can say people on stage and people like, yeah. And, you know, I think they just get me in a deeper level and they just want to be there to have fun and, you know, have an experience and kind of like forget what is now for them and be in the moment. Dude is a blessing. So if I have the ability to do that,

lose some money at the same time, but harness and be able to nurture my fanbase, that's the main goal here. I think that's super, super nice of you and also aware of you to be able to take the hit, to be able to provide for the people that provide for you. Yeah, totally. And on top of that, I just gotta say, I wasn't expecting you to be so upfront about all the numbers and everything. And to be honest, as YouTubers, we're very familiar with how much YouTubers make or how much streamers make or that whole sphere. But we have no idea.

how much like musicians make. Cause it's not talked about. And so I appreciate your transparency when it comes to like musicians numbers. Cause a lot of people, I'm sure like, basically all the viewers right now have no idea or completely surprise. You can get a check just for, you know, from Garfield like that on a random Monday morning. Well, that, I mean like, yeah, that, so Edamame was one of my songs. I like that. Yeah. That's not going to fall. So that song was like the number three or fourth biggest sync song, like,

in 2022, 2023. So that means basically I was like waking up every other week with like a sink. It wasn't as- What is sink? So synchronization. So basically you, it's like Garfield is like, oh, we need a trailer, audio.

Boom, sync edamame, bing, bing. And he's just like driving or something. I don't know if it's like, if it makes sense, he'll sync the sound team on their on Garfield or Pixar, wherever it is. We'll be like, this is the budget we have and hit up Sony ATV, like Sony, my publishing company and be like, we want this song in this trailer.

That's it. So I would just wake up some days with people using my music. Or like one time we got a sync with the car max for one of my songs called Bad to the Bone. And it was like a llama just like head out the window just looking at the camera. And it was like, yeah, I'm bad to the bone basically. And they just use that portion of the song.

And I was like, all right, cool. And Carmack's paid me. And Taco Bell's paid me like Mountain Dew's paid me. It's kind of sick. Yeah. It's really dope. Do you ever find it intimidating that like you have to keep topping yourself? Like you have a good song and now it's like, what's OK? How could I make something better than what I just made?

So I was really struggling with that in the beginning of COVID. Uh, I had La La La and that song was stratospheric. Obviously did not expect that sign to get that big. Um, you know, that was like right in the beginning of TikTok and it, it's almost at a billion streams now. And just one of those experiences where I was like, Oh, this really happened. Like I remember I was sitting in my bedroom and I just like started crying. I was like, dude,

My phone is blowing the up right now. Like this is crazy. Like this is real. And my mom like walks in with some apples and is like, you good? I'm like, yeah, I'm good. This is right after I graduated university. Like I crossed, I crossed the stage, went to the hotel. My sister was like, yo, why are you not coming to lunch with us? Like you just graduated, like celebrate with the family. And I was like, no, I got to drop the song. I was going to change my life. And then like two days later, they exploded.

How did you know that song is going to be so big is it feeling yeah, I played it live for a couple times and people could recite the hook like immediately. It's just banged like everything with the mix sounded perfect.

I don't know. I remember also, I hooked up with a girl the same night I made it and I showed it to her. I was like, yo, I made this hit. It's a hit. I made a hit. I did it. And she's like, it's cool. And I was like, whatever. And then she called me like after blew up. She was like, you told me this song was a hit. How did you know? I was like, how?

No, I actually have no idea. I just told everyone and it just spoke into existence and it just happened. How much do you think that song grossed just in everything? Because I imagine, like you said, every other week you were getting syncs and on top of that, the billion downloads that it's done. Do you get a plaque or anything for a billion? I think Spotify will actually send me a billion plaque because I think there's only like

I think there's only like 1200 songs in a billion or something like, I don't know, maybe not even that many. So, Edamame was the one that's synced. Weirdly, La La La was way bigger of a song like culturally than Edamame was, but it didn't sync at all. It's because I feel like the Edamame, the song is so driving and it's like when you wanna buy something, you just wanna be like sucked in. And Edamame, I feel, has that punchiness, like really like upbeat,

fun happiness, whereas like Lala just like more of like a weird meshed pop song that no one really has heard before. So Lala, I don't know how much that song is fully made, to be honest. So when you sign into a record label, you never really know how much they spend on it. I'm honestly like, I think I'm going to audit Columbia because

Walk us through that. When you sound a record dude, because you hear so many people saying they got ripped off by their record company, even Limp Biscuit, I think, is suing whoever their publisher or record company was, because they said they made no money from certain songs or from certain albums. I'm still independent, so I own all of my masters. Basically, whenever I'm like, wife and kids, checking out, I'm going to be like, all right, guys, I'm out. I'll sell my whole catalog for millions of dollars.

Ideally, I'm like a Bruce Springsteen, a couple years, you know, the vice. He just sold his cattle off for like $250 million. Everyone's doing that. Michael Jackson sold his. Yes. Oh, yeah. It's hundreds of millions. Hundreds of millions. It's insanity. The Jackson songs. I think Michael Jackson, I think the Beatles bought Michael Jackson. Or no, Michael Jackson bought the Beatles. Yes, I think. That's cool. They're all like crazy. One bought the other and they were really upset about that deal. Yeah.

I don't know, we're gonna put a list of some people that have sold their catalog. The numbers are ridiculous. Yeah, they're ridiculous. But I mean, it's evergreen. I think the consumption just keeps on going up. I mean, obviously like the OG, OG, OG hits like will always be hits, you know. That would be cool to be able to buy a song like that. That would be the ultimate flex. I'll say you guys sign on that song. Really? Sure. I mean, I have a bunch of songs that don't make any money because they're just, but my musical career started basically from just like gamers using my music on YouTube.

So I never clicked the content ID, like copyright thing, because I was like, I want people to use my music. I want people, I want to encourage people to use my music. And that was like kind of like a grounding point for the basis of building my career. And yeah, I still to this day, I just wanted to TwitchCon recently and had a really good time there. And I met so many people that I've never fully met before that have used my music in there, like intros or outros with their gaming videos and be like,

I love you. And I'm like, I love you, man. Thank you. It's so appreciated because I'll tell from my perspective that there have been times where I've used a little clip of just like 10 seconds, like a little background clip. They claim the whole video. Yeah. And I have to go back through and like edit that out. And it kind of ruins it a little bit or videos where I've included like a reaction to something in context and they claim the whole video.

Yeah. Well, so I don't own all of my music. La la la. I still have a five year license with Columbia. A lot of my music with my friend, young gravy is all on Republic. So I don't really have full jurisdiction over what happens there. And I can't really get those claimed because I ended up selling the rights of those songs. But at the same time, like,

all the music that I have on my Spotify that is not capitalized. So it's like all lowercase. That is my music. So how does a record deal work? The misconception is record labels are bad. I don't think they're bad. They just can't work that doesn't have a flame. It's like if you have a financial advisor and he's like, hey, so we're going to need some money to like make some money. And he's like, and the people are like, nah, go make me money with no money.

How does that work doesn't work. So if you're working an artist that just isn't working and you just stop and sign the wrong guy because you thought he could have been the next pop star. Then you're going to get dropped and then the the artist is probably going to get super pressed because we're like sign this deal and nobody's helped me out. I thought brother. I don't know why I brought the UK accent out there but uh but you see what I mean they're basically just a bank.

But when a song is ripping, and they just want to roll their keyboard down with $600,000 to market a song, I'm all hands off. I don't care. Because when when Lollipop blew up really hard, it was doing like 4.8 million streams a day. So that was making like $20,000 a day, just default.

I don't know what they did. When I sold it to them, it was doing a million streams a day, but I don't know what they did. They spent $650,000. We don't literally just as marketing expense, $650,000. I'm like, whatever, it helped my career so much that I will take the deficit of making money there for a very long time because I can make money in other avenues.

I used to view music as which made me way more anti-label. I used to view my music as the only revenue generating principle because in university, I was releasing songs. I was like making $4 a day, $8 a day, $16 a day. And I was like, oh, this is like where I'm going to make all my money. So the revenue that was making from streaming royalties and online like plays was the only money that I was making. And I, that was like basically the only money I made for a very long time because as I was saying, like touring, you don't really make money.

until like the past year and a half, I've been profiting on touring, not nearly as much as some other people may, but it's kind of like leveling out to 50-50 now. So basically now I use my music as an avenue and a tool and a marketing tool to get people to my shows and to get people to care more about my business, basically. The issue I had with record labels was I was so afraid of giving up 85 to 90% of all the royalties that I was making,

in the offshoot chance that they know actually what to do and how to market your songs. But because the music industry is becoming so democratic because social media and labels are basically being like,

feet held to the fire a little bit. Yeah, and like labels are like cleaning up their whole roster, like just firing, like firing everyone because they don't have the power anymore. It's not monopolized. Like you can't, you can't tell the world that this new song coming out on TikTok is going to be the next big hit. It just doesn't work. Like you need people, the people make the decision and the people make all of the right decisions when it comes to the songs. And like when you hear songs,

And it's like a small little snippet and the rest of the song sucks or the rest of the song rocks. It's cool because it's like, that's what the people want. That's what the people want. And it's not yet, it's not monopolized anymore. And it's actually, it is beautiful, but it also makes it really fucking annoying for an independent artist because you're like, okay, do I want to try to market the song or do I just want to put it out and see if anything happens and wait? And if it doesn't move on to the next one, I don't know.

That's interesting. I wonder then how many artists are trying to curate their music to be just that song that's used for like a 10 second clip. I heard you mention in another podcast, the song Million Dollar Baby and how that song, I mean, you couldn't go like three reels on Instagram without hearing it. And that probably completely changed this guy's life. Insane, like monthly listeners, like my favorite artist, Rex Orange County, never, he's been making music for such a long time, has not hit that amount of monthly listeners. And this guy did it with

I mean, I don't want to say one song, but effectively, to my knowledge, it was like one song. So yeah, that's the thing is, monthly listeners is very deceiving, because it doesn't actually mean anything. You can have the biggest song in the world like cranking, like doing like 15 million streams a day, and nobody will come to your show.

because nobody cares, they just want the song. They don't care about the artist. So that's where the turning point is getting the subconscious of society to be like, oh, I fuck with that person. And it's like, how do you develop a story and how do you develop a personality that people can attach to that draws them in enough to come to the show or buy the merch or do all the other business perspectives that

are not just songs, but like I do totally think that home slices really talented. Yeah. So he's going to be, he's going to be here for a really long time and I'm, I'm happy to have heard his song. I like it a lot.

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Is there an algorithm to game the system for music or like a formula that you could follow? I heard there was a clip that I saw. It was like a DJ that was talking about it. And he said that there's essentially a lever that can be pulled. If you pay enough money, a lever that can be pulled to make a song go viral. But I'm guessing you would say that's not true.

No matter how much money you throw at it. Like, okay, I mean, if I was a trillionaire and I, like, let's say I was a trillionaire, I had a son, he was like, I wanna be a rapper dad and I was like, I got you. Then yeah, like I'll throw a billion dollars at a fucking song, it's gonna go ape shit. You know what I mean? I'll just pay every single, literally every single YouTuber to use it and it's gonna go up. Or even just pay the producers like an obscene amount of money, like the best producers. Nah, producers, that makes no difference.

Really? Yeah, because you can make a song. We can make a song right now that could be the biggest song in the world. We should do it at the end. Yeah, maybe. It won't be the biggest song in the world because I'm not that great fundamentally. I'm fine. I just kind of figured out a loophole.

I just figured out what people kind of like and what I'm good at. And I just doubled down on it constantly. And I'm just like, all right, I know exactly the type of music that I would listen to if I were to make it again. And I'll just double down and I'll double down and I'll double down. What I found really interesting is that a lot of the biggest artists don't even write their own songs. Like they're written by like a Benny Blanco or like like someone like that where they could, you know, maybe collaborate or just buy a song. What was the guy, the Ibiza?

Oh my goodness, my clothes. He was talking about making a song for Bieber, and that was his song, and he shows himself playing it. Oh, he was love yourself. I think it was love yourself. He made a song, and then Justin, I think, plucked it. The super, super sad. Oh, if I was your boyfriend. Oh, yeah, it was that song. Oh, okay, that makes sense.

Yeah, so songwriting is also another avenue to become successful. I've been hit up to write songs for people for sure. I just don't care because I don't like doing things on spec, which is like, hey, if you do this, you might get this. And I'm like, I would rather just make a song for myself. Who cares? Like, yes, I'm not the best songwriter in the world. I've met some songwriters and some artists that I'm like, what the fuck am I doing here? You know what I mean? Like, when you're like,

You I try pretty hard to make music for sure. You know, I'm like racking my brain and I've seen like dojakat make a song or just joking, you make a song. I'm like, dude, this is more fire than my whole catalog. And she just like sits there and it's like sick. So it's like there are some people that are just objectively like.

super, super talented and are hit makers. Is that something that could be learned or do you think you're born with the ability to be able to hear your songs? No, it's definitely a muscle. Okay. I mean...

I would say five years ago, every song I made was like a seven out of 10, six out of 10, let's say modestly or whatever. Now, every time I make is at least nine out of 10. And that's because of just like what I know. And it's like your taste keeps on evolving. Whether or not like the song will explode. I think your taste keeps on evolving and you just get better because

I can take every single aspect of a song or like one of my big songs. I can take an aspect of it and be like, what made this song popular? Oh, this part. And it wasn't because it blew up on TikTok. It's just like.

The feeling it gives you during that moment when you listen to it, just grab it, put it on this song. Another song that did well, grab that, put it on the same song, and just basically have a full set of songs or a full set of a song of all the good parts of a song, all the good flows, all the good melodies, just put it all back on one song. It'll do well.

Do you ever worry that AI is able to do that at some point in the future and like create the best song and it kind of frightens me a little bit, but at the same time, like there's so many imperfections in my music that AI won't make.

So it makes it less real. I also do think I wholeheartedly believe that like people will use AI for every other reason, other than art. And people will get bored of it. People will get bored if it is just straight up AI art. And if there won't be like a revolt, like we need no more AI art, but people will just be like, I'm not that down for this.

And I think that's just gonna be like the general conscious of the society of people being like, you know what? I think I'm done with that. We don't need this. Let's just like actually support a real artist. What if they couldn't tell?

because I see the movie industry, like at one point being like, hey, we want to hit song. The movie industry, maybe. Unless there was something right. You can tell, you can tell the movie industry right now is like getting hit by Chad GPD scripts. It's pretty bad. Sometimes I watch movies. I walked out of the Joker movie. I heard it was like, it was a bismal. Yeah. And like, look, art direction, great. Don't get me wrong, acting incredible, but like,

For two and a half hours, nothing happened. And it was just awkward. I was like, I think they just went to the home slice went way too avant garde on it and was like, we need to do something even more different. And it just went way left field and it did not resonate, I don't think. I don't know. I see a lot of that like with musicians. I feel like

a musician, they make a few albums, like when they're starting out, then they make two albums that just blow up, and then they're like, I'm really artsy, I'm gonna try to come up with something that's like super unique and different. And then it's hard for me to actually enjoy that. Like I've seen that, I feel bad saying these names with like Kendrick Lamar, like Good Kid Mad City was incredible. Even I hate saying, because I love, in fact, I met him randomly outside of the restaurant that I used to work at, Tyler the Creator.

Oh, he's great. He's driving a new album. He what? He's driving a new album. Oh, I know, yeah. Like Chroma-Cope, yeah. Which actually sounds really good. It looks, but like, Wolf is like, I think a masterpiece. Oh, yeah, totally. It's like a 10 out of 10 album, but I feel like after those blew up, they're like, I need to go a little bit more unique and different and, you know, get all artsy and poetic, which is great. Like I support trying new things, but it always seems like a little bit much.

Do you see that? I mean, I kind of have it with my music. I mean, like, everyone's always like, I want the old baby no money. I want the oldest, old Kanye, oldest, but you're developing new fans every single time. And, you know, I just put a, I literally went from like a drum and bass record, a drum and bass adjacent house record with like a top line bass that sounds like everything from the UK to a heartbreak song.

which is fire. Yeah, and it's good. It's a good song. Like, I, like, I really like it. It's, it's really like raw and powerful and emotional, but it's like, it doesn't fucking matter. If you can make a song and you can make any type of song, a decent song, then do it. Like, I totally agree though. Like, sometimes as people, like,

way too heady with it. Okay, for instance. So the heartbreak song, there's a lot of aspects in that song that I would say I would basically do in a normal rap song anyway. It's like some of the cadences are just like really upbeat rapping. I get insecure when I am not when I leave space on a song. That is something that I just

a lot of producer friends that I work with, they're like, stop rapping so much. The song will do better. And I'm like, nah, it just makes me insecure. But it also sucks because I kind of set myself up for disaster when I'm performing live because it breath control is really difficult when I'm like, Rippity Rapping, like on stage for an hour and a half. And I'm saying like poems and poems and poems and lyrics and bars.

So that's that's something that I like struggle with is like leaving space in a song or like trying to be more artistic in that regard, but something I will do across all my music is just fill the song out with lyrics because

I know I like it and I know my fans like me. And if my fans like me, they'll like my songs. And that's it. I'm just putting my personality into my songs and they can resonate with it rather than just trying to do something completely left field every time, which is cool. It's really, it's experimental, but I just don't think it does anything for me because I know I don't like doing that.

I like it when each album is adjacent to the other album. It's not the same that you're trying new things and you're experimenting, but it's not completely detached from the style that cultivated you that audience. Totally. I've been working on figuring out new voices. A lot of my songs are pretty monotone. It's like ballsing and I keep in that tone a lot because I'm probably just insecure about my other voices.

You know, like how Kendrick Lamar on. Yeah, yeah, how he goes like high pitches say hi brother. Well, it's good. Well, yeah, he does that. He does a lot of stuff. And that's the reason if you look at all the really successful rappers, they all have different voices.

Yeah, Eminem, Drake, Drake's fucking dude Drake pulls out a UK accent sometimes. And then I got Jamaican accent, bro. It's like interesting. It does a lot. And Kendra does a ton. And it actually, I didn't realize this until recently, but it really makes a difference in having different voices.

Do you have any checks and balances or people that you know that have their fingers like really on the pulse where you show them your music and they're not just like, oh, yeah, dude, that's fire. That's going to go bang. Or do you see any artists that you think have just consistently over time just nailed it every single time? Because I imagine if you're like making music and you're passionate about it and you're like really loving it, like people are just going to be like, oh, yeah, that's fire. Unfortunately, sometimes I wish I had some more. Yes, men, because sometimes I like, nah, it just sucks, man. I'm like,

So I'm set on that. Do I think I make the best music in the world? No. Do I think strike of genius sometimes? I'm like, this song rocks. Yeah, God bless. When I made it boy, I remember I ordered an Uber.

And we made this other song and we were working. They just started to beat. And I was like, yo, this beats fires fuck. And he was like, yo, lay something on it before you get an Uber. And the Uber was waiting. And I, you know, when they texted Uber, he's like, Hey, I'm here. And then I just literally went up to the microphone. The first thing I said was, uh, T. B. O. Y. B. B. N. O. Dada, son. Yet as me, yet as right. And they were, they just both turned were like, yo, that's fire. And then they were like, okay, what's the next lyric? I'm like, I don't know, Gen Z M and M.

And they were like, that is so fucking stupid. And I'm like, hell yeah, let's run it. I'm not even Gen Z. And then we ran it. And then I sent all my friends the song. And one of my best buddies, my DJ, I sent it to him. He's like, this is the best hook you've ever written. I promise you, this song will blow up. All right. And then I just like, I buckled my feet down and finished the song. And we just, yeah, it did well. So, and it's easily the most turntub song I have live. This song is, I play like an orchestral introduction to it. Oh, that's cool. And then I'm like,

The only reason why you guys are fucking here is to tell your parents that you're fucking, oh god damn legend, like get your fucking dicks up. And like, I just like scream into the microphone and yell it down and I'm like, get your hands up. And yeah, they just lose their mind. It's just everyone's, literally everyone's jumping. Yeah, it's really cool. So when you make a song like that and you can feel it and it actually invokes a feeling of like, hey, I wanna move or like, hey, this makes me feel sad.

That feeling is infectious. I don't know if only musicians can see it for the first time, but you don't want you hear a song like, damn, this is fire.

I promise you, other people feel the exact same way. And that's probably why a song will be big, just infectious. I don't really know how to explain. It's just a feeling. I like Rick Rubin a lot. And I listen to his energy. It's incredible. He has no musical training whatsoever. It doesn't know music theory, nothing. He just has an ear and he's like, if I like it, I have a feeling other people like it too. And that's it. That really is it. It's like, and it's kind of like people are like, oh, what type of food do you like? And I'm like, good food.

It's the same thing. It's the same concept. Maybe you'd all like good food as I like good food per se, but I'm not going to say no to a $17 poke bowl where I know it's going to be good as fuck. For me with food, by the way, a good analogy is how your smell influences the taste of the food. For me, it's money.

How much does it cost? That influences the taste of the cheaper it is, the better it tastes. The cheaper it is, the cheaper it is no matter what, or the more free it is. The more free it is. The better it is. When I get dollar, it's gonna taste delicious. Oh, I love free shit. What kind of free stuff do you get as a musician?

Kind of like, if I read, okay, you know, RX bars. I love RX bars, dude. So I have DMs with them of me sending voice notes, but hey, guys, I'm like a huge fan. Please get back to me. I really want some product and I'll promote you guys and I promote them. And I like literally tell my fans, I'm like, please spam them. I really love an RX bar.

They cold turkey me, but basically I've gone, I think the coolest thing that I've gone for free was a steam deck. It's like, it's like a game. It's a game boy basically from the company like Valve and Steam. And I've been playing that all the time on planes and stuff. It's super, super nice. We got Jack in the Box for free. Really? Yeah. Jack in the Box commented on a video because Jack's name is like, oh, it's a Jack in the Box. Well, I would talk about it. So we used to have a vlog channel. I would talk about Jack in the Box all the time. I love Jack in the Box. I think it's underrated. What's good there?

First of all, everything. Second of all, the tacos are amazing. Really? So growing up, I would definitely, so I had very little money personally growing up, and so I would go to Jack in the Box. They had two tacos for 99 cents. I would, and I ran across the country, so I'd build up an appetite. I would go spend $4, get eight tacos, feel awful afterwards, but also just love eating them. They're amazing. The meat is questionable. You don't know where it comes from. They definitely fry the entire taco. It's not healthy, but it is like, it's love.

Yeah, they sent us, they sent me a $500 debit card to Jack in the Box. Yeah. And it's like, it's called VIP Jack Cash. I go through the drive through like handed over them and they're like, I have never seen anything like this ever before. That is sick. It's been three years and I still have money. Really? Yeah. I mean, fair enough. That's cool. Yeah, shout out Jack in the Box. So you got the steam deck for free. Is there anything else that like huge brands are just like here, just take like audio equipment, I would imagine.

No, no, audio equipment is like it it stays and lasts forever. So like no, they're not gonna give you anything unless I was like AAA, you know what I mean?

I might, I don't want jinx it, but I might be getting a Chipotle black card. No. Okay. I got to show you what I just sent Jack. Holy shit. I don't want jinx it. I don't like maybe even cut it out. You should literally just bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep

That's it. It's not the black card anymore. It's the wood card. That's fire. We talk about Chipotle nearly every other episode. We shout them out. I spend $16 there basically every single day Chipotle. If you're watching this, I love you. Chipotle is fire. All three of us will always talk about you. Trust me. I hope that people listen to this and go by Chipotle. I recommend it. It's healthy. Send us your cards, please. It's a great value. It's a great value. It's a great value. It's a great value span for sure.

Walk me through, like, a day in the life of a musician. I know every day is going to be way different, but let's just talk like an average day. How often are you in the studio per month?

Okay, so I'd usually do studio work, like making music in a very sporadic. It's like two or three months, I'll just be like, fuck it. Like, let's make a ton of music. And then I kind of just choose all the good music that I've made. Let's say I make 100 songs and I'll take like seven. And I'll be like, okay, we're going to market these seven songs. I really like these seven songs. I'm going to shoot music videos. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do that.

and just hope for the best with these joints. I used to, in the past, do tons and tons of music making, because that's all I had. I was just making music constantly. But now it's more formulaic. It's very structured, because if I have a tour coming up, I have to prep music, because I want people to show up and want to give them new music to hear and to find enjoyable to when I do the shows. What else?

So a typical day, let's say, okay, when I go back November 1st, I'm going to be in LA. My typical day would be I wake up, do a little bit stretching, go to the gym, come home, figure out what I'm going to do in that day. I'm like...

Do I have a session? If I have a session at three, which is music session, I'll make music, then I'll work with my team of like content strategy for the next week or something like that. And then go make the session, go make the song, hope for the best in the studio and then come home.

Rinse and repeat for weeks. And then one off day will be like, hey, we have a show on the 12th. So we're going to fly to Mexico City and hang out there for a couple of days. I'm doing a show in Mexico City. And then I will fly back to LA or go to another place and just make content with people.

And doing those shows in like the one-offs in Mexico City, are those worth it financially? Or would you say that's more so cultivating the audience? So one-off shows, college shows, festivals, those are worth it because they have a ton of production already. And it's sometimes, I would say,

9.6 times out of 10, it's not a bad look. Uh, or 96% of the time is not a bad look. Um, sometimes like the festival will flop or not sell tickets and then you're just like kind of left shitless. You're like, well, I didn't have the ability to market this, but sometimes like people can like post a video if there's like no one at your show and be like, wow, bro fell off. I've seen that with a few like rappers. Like I swear, I saw that with like, like little baby.

So tickets right now, ticket sales are the lowest they've been in 35 years. Why do you think that is? Tick tock rain. People don't care. People want stimulus now. Why would you go to a show where it's like an hour and a half of your day and hour transiting probably where you're like, oh, I have to go like listen to these songs in person.

Yeah, there's obviously a lot of people that probably don't see that way too. But think about the younger generation and also there's a lot of people who like probably don't even see it because social media is so alienating now. It's too much for people. Like, is it not too much for you guys?

Definitely, it's not good for my brain. I'm similar to you. I tried very hard. It's a conscious effort to limit it. Yeah. They've seen a lot of them cancel shows. We just didn't sell enough tickets. There's a lot of- It's like costs, but it's also just people aren't selling tickets. I don't know what it is.

Luckily, thank the gods, my American tour, because I was worried I was not going to sell any tickets. I don't know, just everyone around my camp, the people that I know, or just aren't selling tickets. And I was like, oh, shit, man. But we blew out 10,000 tickets in a week, which is sick for me. Like, that's way above average. My agent's text to me is like, bro, I'm really proud. Like, this is sick. We're on the up. Like, amazing.

He's like, you're really blowing out tickets. Like this is going to be great news for all the promoters and all the buyers of like festivals. So I'm going to be able to do like festival shows and get bags there. But yeah, I mean, things on my side are great. So so Google estimates are net worth at three to five million. Is that accurate? Where do they get that number from? Are they just guessing?

I don't know how they make these numbers. It's not accurate, but. Low or. Hey, man, we come. We come. We come to the game. We sometimes don't know how to play. But I don't. Yeah, I've never fully understood it of how they would make this assumption. I think if I wasn't independent,

I would probably have less than that number, hypothetically. I don't know. One of my largest decisions that I would say is a mistake is when I had lalala, I didn't sign my album. That album that I had, I didn't spend a penny marketing it because my algorithm, my name was so fueled, just like fueled.

In all social media, like I uploaded a video on YouTube and it did like seven million first week because the next thing you upload when you have a banger is going to do better because the algorithm. I don't know fundamentally what it is, but. So when that happened, I was like, all right, like.

I'm gonna do it my way, but I fucked up and I didn't spend a single penny on marketing that album where that album could have been ginormous if I spent $100, $200,000. What do you spend the marketing on? Just like getting creators to make content. It's just like developing out the story as well. So like if I had a $200,000 budget, I'd probably spend like

It's probably been like $20,000 on like third-party marketing teams to get like real big blog editorial posting. So it feels real. So you can just use that content. You can get like a magazine posting and be like, yeah, I'm on a front cover of a magazine. Even if a magazine doesn't do anything. So the signals to the fan, you're like, oh, I'm cool.

I'm real. And then I would, if a song goes crazy, you run it to radio. So radio is a completely tertiary, basically dying format. But if you have a song on like pop, pop, pop, pop radio and it's going crazy, you're making million dollars a week. Like you're making a shit ton of money from the publishing side.

So that's only if a song goes crazy. And then really, like, I would send the rest on a bunch of really epic music videos, like developing out the story of the album, the likeness of the album, the...

creative endeavors and just putting more money into that so people can dive deeper into it. And then really 70, 60% of the marketing budget, just drop it on Instagram reels or people having making TikTok posts. And when you see a little smoke come up, that's the thing. You gotta be really, really opportunistic in music. And when you see a little smoke bubbling or a bubble, you're like, oh, we gotta spend. Because you might miss it in a millisecond.

So, how do you recommend someone who wants to get into the music industry to start? Let's just say they're making their own music. They are, you know, in their parents' bedroom, just getting started. How do they blow up? Well, so this guy named David, I don't know, you know, David? In the closet. Yeah, in the closet. So this guy, I think it sounds like 1.5 billion now. He made a sound like on his fucking iPhone.

And it's ginormous, like triple quadruple platinum. The homie was like making music in the Fortnite closet, like legit. He was a Fortnite streamer and it was like, fuck it, I'm gonna make music. Made one of the biggest songs of like 2022, 2023, I don't know when it was on his iPhone. You can just put music out. You never know what's on it. And yeah, his whole life changed, like Sizzo brought him on tour and just like that. And he's young. He's super, I think like 18 still.

Yeah, like when that song came out, I think it was like 16 or something like that. Yeah, and there's like, he uploads like photos of him and his, I think a little sister or a little brother and they're just like making new song. And I think the brothers like to, or Laura Lewis is trying to really know, I was like, seven. Wow. And it's just like, dude, what? So how does he get traction to that? Is it just posting it on YouTube? Did he use his audience? I think the TikTok is really what blew up. I don't know if he used this audience. I have no idea. Like there's a void in there.

But the thing is, is like when you upload a song and you're just being yourself on social media, it will hypothetically resonate. Some of some of you said you're like, are people making music for like TikTok moments? I think if you just try to make a good song and might go on TikTok, it might not. But even if it doesn't go on TikTok, if it's a good song, people are going to listen to it.

That's it. How have you been so strategic in marketing yourself? I feel like there are very few artists that go on as many podcasts as you go on that are so active on social media that you collaborate with a bunch of YouTubers and stuff like that. And as I'm scrolling reels, I'll see you all the time. Were you strategic in that area? Is that just you taking every opportunity?

It's kind of like me taking every opportunity. But I also like have kind of branded myself to just be low effort and it works sometimes. Sometimes it definitely does not work and it really misses. TikTok is fucked as well. But I feel like a lot of the time, it's just like the lower the effort.

the better the results.

Yeah, I mean, there are different types of artists. I think I kind of live in a space where I'm a little bit new-aged and I have to promote my music for it to be heard kind of thing. I also could just literally put a song out and just not touch it. I could totally do that.

But I like the challenge. I like thinking about it and being like, you know what? I would love for this song to be huge because it means a lot to me or something like that. Sometimes it gets incredibly frustrating and there's too many people speaking and I'll just be like, what the fuck? But most of the time, it's very rewarding when it works. And it's like, what's the point of doing something if you're not going to do it to the best of your ability?

I think that comes across as something that is very like a heart point of my brand. And it's very accessible for people to be like, oh, he's just a literal idiot on social media that kind of makes good music. It's cool. So that's my take on it. It's interesting when you mentioned that you were bigger in China of all markets. I heard you say that recently. China. Dude, it's so ridiculous. China.

I was in university and I got a DM. It was like right during midterms week and I was like, man, I don't know if I can do this music shit anymore. It's really not working. Like I was genuinely going to give up. And this, I was also doing a copious amount of Adderall because I'm not an academic. I wouldn't recommend it, guys.

Uh, so I got a DM from this, this girl didn't follow anybody but me on Twitter and was like, Hey, you're famous in China. I'm like, shut the fuck up. Like, wait a minute. She's like, no, I'm being serious. I'm like, huh? And I had a foreign exchange student in, in my, in my class. And I was like, yo, like, do you, do you know this like app called net ease and like Wang Yi and like 163 music? And he's like, yeah. And I was like, do you know, like, do you know, like what this means? And I was asking him.

like what all the analytics were and he's like, wait, this is your song? And I'm like, what do you mean? And he's like, dude, this song's huge. I'm like, really? And then we just like became friends after that. And he like helped me get WeChat, helped me get Weibo and a bunch of the social medias. And then there's this dude named Loose out in Shanghai. And I was like,

I made a fan group on, on WeChat and so many fans poured it and they were like, my phone was like buzzing off the wazoo and I was like, holy shit, I remember just sitting there with my roommate Kyle and, and Daniel and we were just like, dude, what the fuck is going on my phone? Like, I couldn't use it because I was like, and I, I texted this guy loose. I was like, what's up?

Everyone's telling me to hit you up. He's like, cool. Let's do a tour. And I was like, really? And homey scammed my ass so hard, like we sold out six capacities, all like 900 plus. And I went from doing midterms.

Not selling is literally doing a show in like Victoria BC with like one singular person like one person to doing 900 capacity solo shows like drunk off my ass being like fuck it lets party and like didn't even know my DJ didn't even know the DJ like we're just winging it so hard and at that point.

He gave me like $2,000 for all these shows and I think he probably pocketed like on a grant. But at that time I was busting tables and I was like,

All right. This is sick. And I'm like, I'm making more money I would have made than busting tables, playing my own music in China. I'm going. And I went and it was like the greatest experience of my life. Like it was life changing for sure. Like people had tattoos of me out there. I was like, what the fuck is going on? I remember the first show I turned around and looked at Dan, my DJ and I was like, bro, what the?

book is going on. So that was like the first moment. And then everything, honestly, everything after that kind of just became normalized because I was like, if my music can be so impactful in China, like it has to be able to be impactful out here.

And I was just like, I gotta keep trying. And then my homey young gravy blew up. And then it was just like, I just kept trying. I stopped partying, started waking up at like four in the morning, started drinking coffee. I just started really giving it a mile. So what song was that?

It was a song called Yo-Yo Tokyo, which I only how it had out in North America for like not long, like not long, like very short. It was like a week. And then I don't know the inception of how. So basically what happened was this guy 16th birthday, Jackson, Jackson. Jackson. He danced to one of my songs and a two song choreographed, like set up.

And it was just one of my songs. So I have no idea who recommended it. I have no idea if my music was popular out there prior, but soon as you dance, I went immediately viral. That was basically it. Although really quick, before we go into that, even if you think it's a bit overhyped, AI is suddenly everywhere from self-driving cars, molecular medicine to business efficiency. If it's not in your industry yet, it's coming fast.

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So see if your company qualifies for this special offer at oracle.com slash iced. Again, that's oracle.com slash iced with the link down below in the description. Thank you so much, Oracle for sponsoring this podcast. And now let's get back to the episode. How was it performing in front of that amount? Like 900 people after previously only performing in front of just like one or 10 or so. I had, I got water on the CDJs and I had to do pushups for like 30 minutes. It was, it was a joke. I had no idea what the fuck was going on. Was it freaky for you?

It was like, this is funny. You know, like, it was like, this is so not what it should be. But I'll take it. So it was kind of like a really, really eye-opening experience that I was like, oh, maybe I do have the ability to do something like this. And I think it really gave me the driving factor of being like, I have to do this. Like something is telling me, I think once I saw some dude, no bullshit, have baby no money tattooed on his neck, I was like, okay, you fucked up.

Like so hard. Did you tell him that he made a mistake? I think so. Okay. But I was just at that point, I was like, I got to do this like religiously, like at least for him. So he doesn't make a goddamn terrible as mistake. But yeah, it was a very, very interesting experience that I don't know. I would love to re-feel that again, because it was so like unexpected. But at the same time, I was making music and I was like,

I really hope this would happen. And then I think the second time I ever felt something similar was when I had La La La, I was like about time. Like it took me two and a half years later after I blew up in China, it took me two and a half years later to have La La La in North America. And that was like my first big stamp of approval in America and in North America, like the rest of the world. And at that moment, I was like, okay, I made it. Like I first year made it. How much do you make and then scrap and just don't post?

Well, when you, when you took out for a minute, uh, I was like, I basically make like a hundred songs and I'll put out like seven. Whoa. Yeah. I scrap a lot. It kind of sucks. Cause like I used to be way more down to just put everything out, but then I realized being more intentional and like actually putting out exclusively bangers. People will be like, Oh, I know he's putting out a like a, like a hitter. So I'm going to go back and make sure I let's do it for the first time.

But how do you know that those songs don't really hit with an audience? Wouldn't it be better to have like an in-person test group of like 20 people, 20 big fans, play the music and just have them rate it if they liked the song? Maybe you test another group? I mean, like the others testing groups and stuff.

You never know. Like you literally never know. I mean, I remember my videographer. I sent him all along and I was like, yo, we should shoot a banger to this one. This is going to be it. I promise you. I promise you. And he said, I don't like this on at all. He said, I don't even want to shoot it. I'm like, okay, don't worry about it. Didn't shoot the music video. And then we shot the music video because it blew up. We had to make a music video has like 700 million plays on YouTube.

And I'm like, bro, you fucked up. That would have been like the biggest game changing asset for your like directing career for sure ever. But I mean, that's the nature of things. I know for us and just for myself, there's some videos that I put so much time and effort into that I love the video. I post it just terrible. Yeah. Other videos I'll make on a whim and they do really well, even though I think it's not the best videos is for whatever reason it did does well.

So I did this video with this TikTokger guy, content creator guy named Justin Ye, and it's like super sick. It was for the song called, too, the one I was talking about in the music video. And he did like a very DIY setup, like made paintings, dude, this. And I honestly, when I watched the video, I'm like, this is so sick. Like, it's really cool.

but it just like doesn't do well on an algorithm and it just makes no fucking sense. Anyone would look at this video and be like, yo, this is so sick. Like, great job. This is really cool. And it's like the formatting or like the file type or the video type, the video quality type will hinder the video. And it's just like,

It's kind of interesting because it puts a weird perspective on content creators' minds that is like, I have to kind of fit into this poll or this line of how I make music and how I deliver it or how I make content and how I deliver it.

And I think it's kind of like washed a little bit of people's full-blown creativity. And I think it's like reducing the standard of quality across the board. And I think people are just getting more and more okay with just like mid-tier everything.

Walk me through grinding for years and then having the song la la la that blows up one of the next few days like what is your phone like this is just constant just iMessage barrage did you get me dms from people you idolized. Oh yeah i remember.

I remember like the, the last day, okay. So basically Y2K was going to get this record deal. And when he was getting this record deal, he was like, we can't let this song drop. We liked the song drop on streaming were fucked. Basically what'll happen is he might lose his deal. So I was like, all right, I'm going to work my ass off. So I worked like 14 hours of just like send sending out people memes to post about the song, basically. And then what happens at this moment?

I call my ex and I'm like, I have a hit basically. And I call my manager and I'm like, dude, we got to get this song go up. We're fucked. The next morning, it goes up. I fly. I take a red eye to New York. We sign it just like that. And I just remember like right after I signed it, we went for beers and I was just like, damn, about time.

Like it like it felt like i was like i was like about fucking time i work my god damn ass off for like five years in north american i had no no recognition really and i was like for the first time ever i felt like it just made sense and

It was cool because I think it was very validating that I knew that song was gonna be a hit and I was just like so convinced I was just like fuck it I gotta make this song a hit and it was a hit and then like all the other songs I put out like a two before and two after they all did great and it was just kind of like a springboard effect that like took me up a lot and

Yes, it's been a really interesting experience. There's highs and lows, peaks and peaks and lows and whatnot. But I wouldn't change it for the world. Sometimes it's really annoying that I have to make content all the time. But what's the worst low? Sometimes I do too many shows and I burn myself out really hard. Burnout is so real being a touring act. I think it's just not having regularity in your schedule really is tiresome.

Yeah, I think I think I've been to the point where I'm like, oh, I'm so past burnt out. I'm just so in burnout that I don't even recognize it sometimes. And then it just like gets like double down. And then I'm just like cooked. I just sometimes like sit there and I'm like, and I want to do things, but I just can't. I like I'm at capacity. And I also think I have ADHD and a bunch of like a loo of other things. But I think

That's probably the lowest it's been recently. How do you date as a musician? Is that something that's like easy? Is it difficult? Are there different challenges that come along with that? Uh, it's pretty cooked. I'll be honest. I remember this, this guy David. I just bought my apartment and we just had La La La and it was like October, I don't know, 10 and we're walking back into my fucking apartment. I remember this vividly and he's like, yo, you know, dating for you is fucked for the rest of your life. And I'm like,

And it's true. It's a little difficult for sure. That's the one pillar in my life that I don't really have fulfilled. And that's the one pillar in my life that I've always wanted. I just wanted some normality with love and affection and feelings and whatnot. But I mean, hey, I wouldn't be in the position I was in if I was dramatically in love, I think. And I also wouldn't switch it for anything.

What makes it so difficult? You think it would be like really easy, no? Like what's the hardest part of that in a relationship? I am a serial monogamous and I believe out of a place of trust and love and I want to build a family basically. But it's just like, yeah, I can go and get laid. What was I going to do for me? It doesn't make me happy. It's like, I don't want that.

But it seems like it would be easy to find a relationship to. Yeah, but it's, but there's all, at least historically in the past, for me, there's been like these weird dynamics where I just don't like it. I want a dynamic that we're both growing together rather than like swapping back and forth, like the PowerShell kind of thing. And I, you know, interestingly enough, like I go on tour on the wellness insecure.

So I have a bunch of shit I gotta figure out myself, cause I kinda neglected all of my emotional wellbeing for like eight years to do all this music shit. And I feel like I'm kind of like lightly emotionally stented, but I'm working on it now, so. But at the same time. What are you insecure about if you're on a tour? Is it like the time difference and not spending time with someone? I don't really know. Sometimes I don't even know what I need in a relationship. But I'm gathering recently that

I haven't yet met a person that wants to take a relationship as serious as I do. And I like, I want, I want to find a connection that I really like love and find fulfilling. And I think a lot of the time, the sometimes we view connections as like a potential dynamic where it's like probably not healthy or we're like, Oh, this is fun. This is great. But I have yet to meet someone that

kind of checks all the boxes and actually wants. I've met people that have checked boxes and don't want a relationship or a committed relationship, but I've yet to meet anyone that wants a committed relationship and has checked all the boxes. Obviously, yeah, God fucking bless. If I meet someone, that's perfect. That's perfect.

I'm, you know, there's someone out there for me for sure. I'm, I'm not too too worried. Uh, and one of these days they will come around for sure. It's just like, it would be dubber sooner than later. Got a thing. I got it. This is completely like a 180, but I have a question about your hair, your hairline.

is immaculate. Do you take any sort of thing for your hairline? And on top of that, like the beard, it's the perfect beard. I am so hairy. I have a lot of hair, but it doesn't grow in perfectly like your beard and mustache do. I don't like you're really going strong with the compliments. Look, I know you're single. I'm single. We can figure something out. No, I'm just trying to understand. Do you like Derma Roll or is there like a... Are you guys going to copay?

I want to be a dad. I do literally nothing to my nothing. So worst thing you could have told. Well, obviously, I shaved a bit today. I got to clean it up a little bit. But for hair, I don't use shampoo or conditioner or nothing. I just let it go greasy and just let it grow up. So I actually did that for two or so months because I heard Dandruff is generated from drying your hair out. There's got me.

starts accumulating and then you dry it out again to fix the dandruff, which does it, but temporarily. And then it starts accumulating again. But if you get past that crux, then over time you won't have the dandruff. Is that what you experienced? Is that actually true? Oh, I don't really deal with dandruff. I just like, I remember I was in high school. My brother was getting all like hipsteriness. Like, yeah, I don't wash your hair, bro. And I just stop washing my hair with the smell. Doesn't smell bad. So it's naturally cleaning itself. Legit and smell as you want.

Get over here, man. All right. Yeah, you can lean over the table. Yeah. Yeah. That's all right. That's like, that's a good musk. Yeah. It's not even, it's not even like it's musk. It does even, it's not that it smells like nothing, but it's, it's a musk, you know, like a good one. Yeah. Very man. I can say we got to change the course of this conversation. I'm outing myself. Guys, I'm straight. There have been questions. People think that Graham and I are like dating. That's not the case.

That's dope. Okay, I have a question about private venues. Justin Bieber was paid $10 million. It might be confirmed, I don't know, but it's been widely reported to be paid $10 million to perform at a pre-wedding celebration for a super wealthy, like billionaire family, one of the wealthiest people in Asia.

Have you ever been offered like a private venue thing? Or is that like something that happens? I'm so curious because $10 million to perform it for probably like a minute. It's just in Bieber and also know like Justin Bieber. Have you seen Justin Bieber live? Either of you guys? No, no. Incredible. Like I always was like, Oh, it's Justin Bieber cringe. I saw him live and I was like,

Oh, like he's perfectly in key. Like every word he says is perfect. It's perfect. Like I always, I always was just like, you know what, like all these girls like Justin Bieber, you know, whatever, he's probably just cute, but he's so unbelievably professional. It's nuts.

Have I done like a super private event? I've definitely done private events, but not to that extent, obviously. Like if I was making $10 million for a private event, black cards would be on me for sure. I've definitely done private events. I mean, they typically do pay better.

but they suck. It's not as fun. Well, yeah, definitely not. Because no one's like singing your music. No one's like actually hair for you. You're just like, that is like the wife's dream. And he's like, all right, I got you. Like, I love you. Here's $10 million. But I mean, I would have loved to go to that wedding. Sounds like a fucking blast. I think it lasted over like several days to that wedding. Did it really? Yeah. Oh my gosh. I mean, $10 million, man. That's a lot. Yeah.

It's so interesting that he would still do that shit for $10 million. I mean, it's a lot of money by the jet. And they'll make it so easy on him. I think he just showed up performing in the left. So it's like maybe 24 hours, maybe 30 hours for $10 million. Yeah, apparently he left right afterwards. I'm pretty sure some of it was posted on TikTok, not the concert itself, but his wedding. And I believe it lasted like a week.

That's so far. It's like a week long. When I am married, I'm two weeks. Yeah, all the groomsmen got AP watches, but I think it was like the skeleton AP. Yeah, because they posted a photo of all the APs together in a circle. You really know all the more.

Damn, we fucking suck. We should have had the wedding. We needed it. I would love that. What about features? Is there a lot of money in features? Like doing features? Doing features? Yeah, or like, do you pay other people to come on your... How was that? How was that economy? Typically, I really like just doing a song where it's like, I meet them, I meet them, and I'm like, I actually vibe with them, and then I'll send them a song and they'll do it or something. I did this song with the young beige to go. We ended up getting...

Wiz, Wiz Khalifa. Yeah, Wiz Khalifa. I got Wiz Khalifa on it. And... How did I... Yeah, I was about to say, I was like, Wiz, what? I'm like, Khalifa. Yeah, no, I... Must not be Khalifa. Dude, my brain just turned off. This is much more time. You need more time. So we ended up getting him on it. It was like 50 grand, but I had no communication with it. This wasn't my song. They uploaded it. They did everything.

and yeah, he kind of made this on a little cooler, but it didn't really do anything. 50 grand to get with Cleef on a song. Yeah, but this was like four years ago when he was a lot more popular. Interesting. Because I think you probably had a couple kids and I was showing it. Who's somebody that you would love to collaborate with on a song? I've always said like, Pharrell Williams or Timbaland, Missy Elliott. Missy Elliott. This is like the legends. Yeah, that'd be really basic. But as far as I'm like more contemporary, there's this girl named Lave. Yeah.

Dude, I love her. I don't think we would make a song that makes any sense, really, maybe. But there's something that her music has that is eons better than everyone else's. It's so beautiful. It's so pretty and charismatic. And also, the visual imagery comes across perfect in her music. You can listen to a song, you can just see it in form of a Disney movie.

It's weird. No, she's awesome. That would be great. That would be really cool. Yeah. I'm really curious where you invest your own money. Like, do you save it? Do you invest it somewhere? So I have a saving principle of like at least minimally 70%. But that has been since day one. I started working at my dad's store like super super early on. So I've been saving about 70% minimum. But honestly, it equates to about like after my net probably like

80, 90%. I don't spend any of my fucking money. And then I just, honestly, I could be doing a lot better financially. I have like probably five or 10% in like kind of high risk or like risk. Like individual stocks and crypto.

Yeah, I still have a guy during the crypto pump in like 2021. I ended up doing pretty decent and then I poured it all into Bitcoin. So I have like five coins. Oh, good. It's pretty dope. And then I have like probably like 80%, 85% locked away and just like high interest.

High interest. High interest. Yeah. What about index funds? No, I just don't do that. Why? My dad and I, we just have this principle where it's like safety. Just full-blown safety. That might be a little too safe because you're losing some purchasing power to inflation and the downside. I know. You're getting taxed at your normal tax rate, just keeping it in the savings account. That's like the least optimal thing that you could do.

Yeah, it's better than just well, I mean nothing totally I don't disagree with any of you guys, but I also like I don't like looking at my money that much So my dad is just he kind of just does it for me and I'm like happy that he has like a portion in my business You might want to look into a financial advisor or I do I do have a financial advisor, but that is like listen to him He like only does like crypto shit

Okay, that's not a financial advisor. I don't know. Honestly, that's like, that's like you spend his neighbors like older, bro. To be real. To be real. I feel like if I spend more time on my music in my business.

I understand, but it's the highest part of why in that, but still. Yeah, but I'm just saying, when you start getting into seven figures, the amount that you're missing, just for perspective on this, the market is up like 25% this year, 25%. So if you had like million dollars, that's $250,000 per million that you've missed out on theoretically this year, that you would not be taxed on until you sold.

So there's a lot that's going on there that you really should pay attention to because it's just if we have another 20% year at some point in the future.

You know, it's $5 million, but it's a million dollars. What do you hear of where your index fund is? You know what an index fund is. I kind of just haven't really spent too much brain power on that, and I probably should. You don't need to spend any brain power. Just get a fee-only financial advisor. You pay them by the hour, and you just say, tell me what to do, or just invest what you recommend on my behalf. It'll take you probably under an hour.

And it all works like finding someone to guide you. That one hour will make you, I'm guessing probably millions of dollars over the course of a few years. Easily millions of dollars for one hour of your time. Because we have a lot of people on. That is your Justin Bieber private venue thing right there. Okay. We have a lot of people on here. Yeah, I mean, I honestly, I've been meaning to have a long discussion with my dad because I just feel like fundamentally we're not doing enough with the money. You guys are hurt.

Okay, thank you. If you have any questions, I mean, just let us know. Yeah. But we could try to point you in the right direction for like, you know, some of the talk to on this, like a professional, but it's very easy. It's very simple. And as long as you're not planning to spend it in the next like 10, 15 years, you'll be able to write out any sort of like fluctuation in the market. There's a chance, listen, there's a chance you lose money over the next like 10 years. Yeah. Long term, it's highly unlikely.

Like the risk reward is like this amount of risk for like that much reward. It's worth it. And I like, if you don't like looking at it, I like an auto invest feature. So every week it just pulls out of my savings and just puts it in there. And it can even be for you like a very negligible amount of money, just so you can see it over the course of even like a year and be like, I like this. I like how it's working. Even if at the end of the year, it's like 20 grand.

You know, yeah, honestly, I do have to do a little more diligence with that regard because I feel like a lot of the time I kind of just turn a blind eye and just my dad is really happy doing what he's doing. And I'd like to include him because that's just the most important thing. And he's the most risk adverse person I've ever met in my life. And I kind of like don't mind it.

We're doing a great job saving that amount of money and putting in a high yield savings account. That is over. Yeah, you can be way worse. You can be way worse. No, I could be just not doing anything with it. Or you could be spending all the money. Yeah, and I don't spend anything. Yeah, we have all of it locked away kind of thing. But I mean, I could take it out and play with it more, but I just, I need to slow down my business like mind and then I can start working on that for sure. I just, yeah.

Get someone else too, because I hope that your mind doesn't slow down anytime soon because you could continue to utilize that. Where you're at now, you could be 10 times over the next five years, but at the same time, be making some good five years, 10 times. That's not, I don't even want that, but whatever you want. I mean, the best thing is we're not wasting your money. It upsets me when people aren't optimizing.

Yeah, dude, I definitely need to optimize a little bit, for sure, cool. Bro, my financial advisor, dude, or the guy who's like the best. He's got a financial advisor. You know bullshit texting me. He's like, yo, should we invest in Skippity?

Oh my fucking god, bro, like didn't I woke up and I was like one of the first texts I saw like six in the morning. I was like what the fuck? And you're like, yes, okay, many toilet come on. Who is this guy? I don't have to say his name is John Has he gotten you good return? Yeah, he's got me. He's got me huge plays

Like he'll be like, yo, give me 15 K and he flips into like a hundred times. Dude, it sounds like a pump and dump group. I'm not going to lie. But it's like an actual firm. Do they say like a firm? No, it's not firm. There's no way. Is it firm? There's no way. Do they say, oh, baby, no money bought this? No, I don't think so. Okay. It's definitely not. It's definitely not pumping a dummy. Okay. This is you on Twitter.

I mean, he's definitely kind of on Twitter, but have me. Hey, I mean, dude, I mean, if he's making you money, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, keep the amounts that you're sending him. Red fairly low is why it's like this. Okay. Well, let's talk. Let's talk off the books and stuff. All the books, because I always got to make more money. No, you got to change your name to baby. Got money. Baby has. Yes, money. Yeah. No money. Yes, money. Yes. I don't know.

Well, boys, that was great. Thank you so much for listening on the show. We'll link to a bunch of stuff down below in the description, including our new song that's coming out. Do you want to shout out anything? Do you have tours coming up? End of November. I might have a new song out. If I do have a new song, go listen to it. If I don't, go buy a ticket, come to my shows. It's probably sold out of that time. Love your parents and family. Cool. Thank you guys for watching. Until next time.