An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
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January 31, 2025
TLDR: Discussing NBA topics like Embiid/76ers year, 2025 All-Star rosters, potential Jimmy Butler destinations, playoff contenders, De'Aaron Fox's Spurs ambitions, Phoenix Suns state, and more with guests Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine on The Ringer.

In this lively podcast episode, Bill Simmons hosts an engaging roundtable discussion featuring NBA analysts Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine. The trio delves into various topics affecting the NBA landscape, providing listeners with fresh insights and opinions. Here’s a summary of the key discussion points from the episode.
Joel Embiid and the 76ers' Struggles
Analyze Embiid's Season
- The panel discusses Joel Embiid's ability to impact the game despite his injury-prone history. Eddie believes Embiid is still the league’s top center, emphasizing the need for the 76ers to adjust while he recuperates.
- Justin counters that Embiid’s repeated injuries leave doubts about his trade value, suggesting teams might shy away from his hefty contract.
2025 NBA All-Star Rosters
Surprising Snubs
- The conversation shifts to the upcoming All-Star Game, addressing which players deserved selection but were overlooked. Themes of player performance, team records, and perceived contributions shape this debate.
- Both guests agree on the notable omission of players like Tyrese Maxey and Jalen Brown, while discussing the criteria used for selections, expressing frustrations over player representation.
Potential Jimmy Butler Destinations
Trade Speculation
- Moving towards player movement, Justin and Eddie explore potential destinations for Jimmy Butler, highlighting Golden State as a key player in any trade discussions. They weigh the pros and cons of including Andrew Wiggins or Jonathan Kuminga in such a deal, emphasizing team chemistry and future implications.
The State of the Phoenix Suns
Rebuilding Challenges
- The Suns’ mixed performance raises questions about their roster construct and depth. Eddie highlights that turnover and rebounding issues plague the team but believes that if these aspects improve, the Suns could capitalize on their shooting skills and win more games.
- Justin adds that the Suns may need to consider trading valuable assets to address weaknesses, questioning the staying power of the current roster.
De'Aaron Fox's Ambitions with the Spurs
Future Outlook
- De'Aaron Fox expresses a desire to join the Spurs, prompting discussions about the team’s trajectory. The analysts weigh the benefits of acquiring Fox against the potential risk of sacrificing young talents in the process.
- They recognize the need for the Spurs to bolster their lineup to capitalize on the talents of Victor Wembanyama and expedite their competitive timeline.
Lightning Round: Quick Hits
- The episode wraps up with a lightning round covering numerous NBA teams and players. Key takeaways include:
- Cleveland Cavaliers: Viewed as a formidable playoff contender, bolstered by their young star power and improving team cohesiveness.
- Zion Williamson’s Future: Uncertainty looms over Zion due to his fitness and commitment level. The hosts express skepticism about his longevity as a major player in the league.
- Western Conference Dynamics: The West appears wide open, with teams needing to compete effectively in a changing landscape influenced by injuries and trade movements.
Conclusion
Listeners gain valuable insights into the current state of the NBA through this expert discussion. With a focus on player evaluations, trade possibilities, and strategies for upcoming seasons, this episode encapsulates the excitement and unpredictability that make the NBA a thrilling sports league.
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Coming up, more MBA. That's right. You're not going to bully me away from talking to me. I'm going to do it on this podcast next. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I put up a new rewatchables on Monday night. We did before sunrise, a 90s classic. You can watch it on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel as well. You can watch all the clips and videos from this podcast on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel.
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I finally settled on the top 85, and then we ran it on theringer.com today, and I wrote an intro for it. The fingers actually kinda worked. It's like 1200 words, but that's like 20,000 words for me. I mean, I can barely type, but anyway, I wrote an intro. I had fun, and then we laid out the whole list. It's got stats, it's got the money, all that stuff. So, very excited about that. You can go readme on theringer.com. Yeah, you can read me.
Remember those days? Coming up, Justin Termany and Eddie Johnson, who I call into their show all the time on Sirius, and they owed me one. So they are coming on. We're going to talk basketball and it's next. First, our friends from Projib.
All right, we're taping this late Thursday afternoon. I go on their show all the time, all the time. And they owed me, so they're coming on Eddie Johnson just determined. You can hear them on Sirius NBA every afternoon. And we're really here to talk about Eddie's finals pick, which was Minnesota versus Philadelphia before the season. I looked it up. That finals pick is three games under 500, Eddie.
Like if it can't get over 500, do you just retire at the end of the year? Like what's your plan?
Well, my plan is I think Philadelphia is learning how to win without the best, the best center in the NBA. I think, I think they're learning to win without the best center in the NBA. Uh, one of the, one of the best small folks in the NBA, he's been Andrew Paul George. And if they're learning to win without them too, and those two come back and they're in the play in, I think we might see a repeat of Miami of a couple of years ago. Justin, any comments on that one?
Well, Bill, this is, this is what I deal with every single day. And I say a lot of stupid things. And I still look like I'm rather intelligent because of things like this from Eddie. I mean, how many things did he get wrong there? Paul George, one of the best small forwards in the NBA. Yeah, like seven years ago. Joel Envy, the best center in the NBA. Yeah, maybe if you took out what?
Carl Anthony Town's Joker. If you took out Wymbyn Yama, if you took out Anthony Davis, maybe he's got a point and Miami have a couple of years ago. Great point, Eddie. I think Cleveland and Boston and New Yorkers shaking in their boots. That's amazing when MP was basically the MVP two years ago and he got injured. And so you basically judge an MP based on an injury and saying that those guys are better than him.
I'll give you yokits. I mean, those are the two top players, but anybody else you're putting above, MB, you're basically using the excuse that he's injured and saying he's not good anymore. So you can go kick rocks. Are you in the matrix where Joe LMB'd plays basketball games? Because we're living here on Planet Earth when he's in street clothes every game.
Well, I've seen that. Well, I think they're doing the right thing with them right now, Bill. I think this set them out. Let him get 100% healthy. I think he's been trying to come back, and he hasn't been 100% healthy. I don't think he started the season 100% healthy, and he's paid a price. And I think what they're doing right now is the right thing. Set them out. And guess what? If he can't play the rest of the year, I wouldn't play him. And I've said that on our show. And then that's when you have to suffer the consequences of happening to wait another year.
But for me, I think he needs to get 100%. Like some guys can get 90. He can't. He's got to be 100. And I think that's what they're doing with him right now. Bill, when's the last time I would say this to you? When's the last time, Bill, the guy that was seven feet tall was having issues with his feet was having issues with his knees? All of a sudden, he ended up improving, right? And they're getting better in his 30s.
Exactly. I can't, I can't think of one. And then some Eddie and I agree on is, I think, I think Embiid loves to play, right? And there's some stars that maybe don't love to play. We've had that debate with Jimmy Butler, who's like, I don't take the regular season seriously till after the All-Star game. He's always missing names. Like Eddie and I agree, he probably doesn't like playing the game that much.
NBA, I think, likes playing, but does NBA like putting in the work that is required to play to stay in shape in the off season? And I think that's on him. So you can't criticize him for being burned all the time and having a bad body, but you can get on his case for not putting the work in in the off season in order to condition himself appropriately.
I agree with Justin, which won't be the last time in this podcast. Sorry, Eddie. I was double teamed a lot in high school and college, so it doesn't matter. And at times in the NBA, so I can handle it. I'm fine. I guarantee I won't throw the ball away like some guy. Unlike Devin Booker, you're not going to complain about being double teamed. I start to work the pot here. I mean, not all start Devin Booker. And be a lot of wear and tear.
bad injury history of big men over seven feet who hit their 30s and have been in the automobile shop a lot, shall we say. So I think if I'm Philly, I'm just terrified. One of the things I put up a trade value list today, where I ranked the best trade assets in the league. And we did, I had 85 this year.
And I had him be number 54 on the list. And a couple of people reached out to me and NBA circles and were like, you could have put him 254th. Nobody is trading for him in that contract. I don't, I'm not positive. I feel like it's gotten to that point, but Justin, do you feel like
Is he, is he even tradable at this point? Or is it just like we have no idea what to expect with this dude anymore? Yeah, I was talking about this the other day with Ryan McDonough, the former GM of the Suns. And he called it the worst contract in the sport. So, you know, he's thinking along the lines of view that nobody would deal for the guy. And I was like talking about it on the show with, with Sam Mitchell, he was filling in for Eddie here today. And we brought up like Jared Allen. I mean, you're in position to win a championship right now in Cleveland.
You think Cleveland's doing anything with Joel Embiid if it was like for Jared Allen? No, they're going to stay with Jared Allen, even though he's nowhere as talented as Joel Embiid. So yeah, I mean, I think they're in a spot where who wants to be paying this guy $60 plus million in 2029 when he's already got bad knees four years prior to that. Yeah, I'm on that line, Eddie, but you probably would bet on the talent.
Well, I would look at it more like this. And I said it, I said that these injured sit out and don't play. But if you all are telling me that a team worked out Joel Embi past his injury, and you all know that each team has his own ego. They always have, they think their trainers can get a guy right. So both of you all are telling me that if Joel Embi went to a potential trade team and worked out for them and looked good in his workout,
that they wouldn't trade for him. Are you all crazy? For $60 million, plus dollars? I mean, if the Lakers turned down, Bill Watan's age... I think his team's out there, right now, his team's out there right now. If they worked him out and they saw that he was healthy,
the trade form in the heart. So I so now I went from I agreed everything you said Justin. I also agree with Eddie. There's always a sucker out there who's going to talk themselves into it. We see it over and over again. I never would have thought the Clippers were going to give a quiet extension.
after he just kept missing the playoffs. They're like, here, take this. Like we see it over. I never thought Zion would be able to get any sort of a multi year anything. He did. Yeah. Yeah. You'll build your water songs can make a trade under the second apron. And people didn't think that. Yeah. Things can happen.
And you're right. There is always a soccer and Phoenix probably would be the soccer, the way that they're going out. I mean, that's a fair comment, Eddie. There you go. There's the Phoenix. Phoenix is the sucker at the poker table that all the poker players are trying to keep at the table. No, I'm going to say two more hours. I'll go a step further. If the Boston Celtics worked him out and thought he was healthy, they'd trade for him.
It's a heartbeat. Do we not have a luxury tax anymore? I think the other way. Hey, maybe they'll give up Jalen. They're not going to give up Tatum, but they trade. I hope that if they worked him out and saw he was healthy, they trade for a heartbeat without a doubt. They would. Yes. I think if I had to make my, they'd be crazy enough to trade for him less.
I think Golden State would do it just because I think Golden State right now, it's not Hail Mary time for Golden State, but they're like, it's third and 13, third and 15. And I think they just need to do anything. Phoenix is definitely a Phoenix could turn bill and then be they would do that. No, we wouldn't do that. We wouldn't do that. We wouldn't. What are you talking about? We wouldn't do that trade.
You wouldn't take me over and bead. That one I actually agreed with. No, we wouldn't do it. We wouldn't do it. We wouldn't do it. Did something happen with Bradley Beale professionally that I'm missing? We wouldn't do it. I'm just kidding, man. I'm just kidding. All right. Thank you. Speaking of the Phoenix Suns, the All-Star rosters came out today and I had surprisingly very few quibbles. I would get to my one quibble.
But I did notice that the great Devin Booker, who were on a lot of text with Eddie, where we, we have to hear about the, uh, the virtues of Devin Booker and how great he is, um, did not make the all-star team. Your defense, Eddie. No, he didn't. And I think he should have, it looked pretty just where I think Norman Powell should have made it from the Clippers. Even though my pre-game show for the songs the other day, I didn't pick that.
And it wasn't that he wasn't worthy. It was a number of players that were out there that should have made it. Kyrie, obviously Norman Powell. You had guards out there that were worthy of being picked. And I felt record is just a nose. I always lean toward record. And I thought Kyrie should have been the one picked.
I do. I think based on what he's done without Luca, I think that's all star level. Even though James Harden is playing in a selfish brand of basketball and he's changed his game a lot and shooting what low 40s from the field. I just don't see how he made it over Norman Powell.
And over Devin Booker, like I thought one of those two with Kyrie to me, you know, and obviously had Jalen Williams in that group because I thought people wouldn't pick him should have made it. So, you know, look, I'm not, I'm not surprised that Devin didn't make it. He got off to a slow start this year.
And the record is right there in the middle of the pack of the West. And so you're vulnerable when you're in that situation. Yeah. And I actually Bill agree with Eddie on Norm Powell. I thought he should have made it. And, you know, listen, Eddie says a lot of crazy things that are absolutely ridiculous. Something I said at the beginning of the season that I owe an apology is to the Clippers because I killed them as did a lot of other people. It's worked perfectly. And Norm Powell, like at the beginning of the season said, you know, that it's auditioned by subtraction. Well, he's taken advantage of it. I think he should be an all star.
And then on the Devin Booker front, like, you know, Eddie, I think, broke it down fairly right there. He probably didn't deserve to be there, but it is kind of a major knock on his legacy because this is a guy I feel like is talented enough where he should be there every single year. There's really no excuse
Maybe not to make all star teams. And now it's two of the last three years where he hasn't made it. And you look at a guy like Eddie and myself and you fight about Jason Tatum, say what you want. Not only does he make the all star team every single year, he also makes first team all NBA every year. Then you have Devin Booker, who should be maybe in the same category as him or slightly behind. And he's missing out on stuff like this. I mean, that's a bad look. I think for Devin, Devin Booker's resume.
You know, so I go both ways with first of all, I don't like the word snub with the all star game when we have a lot of good players, right? If you go back 20 years, which I wrote about in the trade value intro today, like we didn't have a crap load of talent in like 2007. So if you got snub from the all star game, you feel it. Now we have so many good players like.
I, the most surprising one was Kyrie, more surprising than Booker. I didn't like the thought of having two sons, all stars when they were 500 team, but I think Kyrie, what he's done without Luca and the fact that he's just day to day, night to night showing up, carrying them. I thought he should have made it. That was the biggest snump to me. I don't understand why we had all these centers.
Um, I have no idea why Shen goon. If you're going to have four centers, how does Shen goon make it over sub bonus? But then Eddie, the other side of it is I do like when they reward the guys on winning team and it's like, yeah, I get it. He used to have an all star. Yeah. And I've always said that. Yeah. So Shen goon makes it over sub bonus. I get it. Um, but I don't understand the Kyrie part and I would have Kyrie over hearted.
Let me just say this about Kyrie real quick, Eddie is like, don't forget who's voting for this stuff as well. How many times did Kyrie give coaches throughout the course of his career? A hard time bail on teams, you know, get coaches fired. So I wouldn't be shocked if, you know, some coaches look at that and they go, Oh, well, Steve Nash gets fired because of the attitude issue. He gives Brad Stevens a really difficult time, you know, Tyler, just the different coaches that he's had run ins with. I think that kind of factors into some of this stuff as well.
I think a lot of stuff goes into it. I do. I think teams competing with one another, all of that. I think it does when you just give the coaches the vote. Attitude can come into play. So I'm not shocked by any of that. For me, I think personally, Devin is going to, I should focus on in the second half of the season. It's definitely a disappointment for him. I know he's not happy.
And so being not happy, he would like to think that he's going to just ramp himself up even more.
Yeah, there's long memories with the voting. I think that's a really good point about Kyrie. I've actually like Kyrie was one of my least favorite basketball players. I really appreciated the way he's turned his career around the last year. It's got to hand it to him. I thought he acted like a pro last year. I thought he showed up and that's all we ever wanted from him. You know what? Really what it is is now we're seeing what his teammates have been saying, but we didn't believe it.
But he also was showing when you're not playing basketball and you're, you're acting erratically and giving weird press conferences. But his teammates still love them. Like you didn't hear his teammates get on him. Like, so, so I think what we're seeing now.
is what the full beauty of Kyrie, right? Without the stuff that was going on. Yeah. Because his teammates in the locker room, man, you talk to you, listen or you watch. I mean, dude, paying guys fines. Like, I mean, it's stuff like that that he does that a lot of stars don't do.
I 80% agree, but even Kyrie last year was like, yeah, I acted like a jerk. There's some things I would take back. Like he admitted it. No, I agree. I totally agree. He did. I got on him. I mean, I got on him totally doing the COVID situation and all of that. But what I'm saying is the things that I've heard about him is he's a great teammate. Like, and so now we're able to see it and not worry about the other stuff. Right? I would say it was all.
Yeah, I wouldn't say that was all on the media. I mean, Jalen Brown gets along with him now. He didn't do that when he was in Boston. I thought one of the worst things that I saw from a teammate, and I think the worst thing on his resume is a game seven of the Eastern Conference Finals when he's heard and he's not sitting there supporting his teammates when he was claiming that he was a leader. That wasn't a good teammate. So,
Yeah, people are speaking of him highly now. I don't think it's been that way all the time because Jalen Brown didn't get along with him in Boston. Marcus Smart had his run-ins with him in Boston as did other teams. Everybody has run-ins. Come on, but I just think that was more team oriented attitude from Kyrie than his teammates. And that's why Jalen Brown, his friends with him again, because he understands that now. It wasn't personal with the players. It was more directed at the team, I believe.
What you just said about Kyrie and the teammates made me think of Westbrook and how Westbrook's teammates always loved them. Lakers accepted. I don't know, you know, although I do think a lot of the Lakers had them, but obviously it didn't work out well at all. But the teammates always swore by Westbrook, even when there was stuff about, you know, him stat padding, him trying to grab all the free throw rebounds, all that stuff. And all his teammates loved them. Yeah. Yeah. And it's good to see those two guys. Did you play like with anybody like that?
We're just like a beloved teammate guy. Yeah, I mean, what you mean that? Say it again now? Like a star that you played with who was like just everybody was all in and loved them. Charles. Charles was unbelievable. You say what you want about Charles? And I know Scotty has something out there about Charles in regards to playing with him and all of that. But Scotty just can't, he can't admit and say that Charles wasn't a great dude, man. He's one of the best teammates I've ever had.
And they had them for a short period of time, but I've had some great teammates. I mean, Nate McMillan, Gary Payton was a great teammate. Like, oh, yeah, without a doubt. Oh, my God, man. Like, you know, it's just, you know, he was brash, you know, he would say, but I love that about him. But no, he was a great teammate. And so there's a lot of guys out there that were, but they did never got the
You know, the respect or the admiration because of things that maybe was outside the game with them. But Charles, man, that dude, man, I'll tell you, he's one of the best teammates I've ever had. So the worst they may have ever had is Justin.
Oh, that's fine. I didn't have any bad teammates, worst teammates, but I'll tell you this. And he's not here anymore. And so let me crap on the guy. I've crapped on it when he was alive and I even crapped on to his face because he was just a surly guy. But Quentin Delley, by Quentin Delley was an unbelievable basketball player. He'd scored 15 points in eight minutes, but he was just always in a bad mood.
He's just moody and it just bothered me. And he and I, we butt his heads all the time in Seattle, man, when he was there. But he might have been the most surliest teammate I've ever been around, but you wanted them in the game because he could score quickly. And that was fascinating about it. On an unrelated note, by the way, Bill, he just surpassed Larry Burtis, my favorite player in NBA history. But it heads it up. Yeah. For the East snubs.
If you want to calm snubs, they took four guards, three forwards, really no center. And the one that jumped out to me was Maxie, but I also wouldn't have put him ahead of Garland, Dame, Hero or Cade. So I was, I was actually fine with the entire East team. The 12 guys they landed on, I thought were the 12 all-stars. Do you have a?
Well, what about your guy, Jalen Brown? Now, I know it's hard to find another front court guy, but I mean, here's why I think Jalen Brown's worthy is I actually do think like the year before you got to take that stuff into account, like reward winning from it. And I do that, you know,
people don't agree with it. I think it factors into the MVP race. How many times can you vote James Hart in the MVP when he falls flat in the post season every year? Then he comes back, he dominates the regular season. But so I see like rewarding Jalen Brown for what he did last year. I don't think Jalen Brown's played in an all star level this year. Do you?
I 100% do not. And I got to say, I was a little surprised he made it. But I also understand why they made it because of the whatever the winning attitude was with how the selections happen this year. I think they wanted two Celts. I think if you weren't watching game to game and just looking at the stats and, you know, the fact that he's been durable. I think, I think people like us that have watched a lot of the games like, man, he hasn't played that well for a month.
Yeah, Eddie and I have done like the stats on this and it's something, I don't have them in front of me. But if you go through like basketball reference and look at all the numbers amongst the eight rotation guys, meaning the five starters, plus warfare, plus house or past Peyton, Richard, he's like dead last and a lot of the field goal percentages. Yeah, he's dead last and like the three point percentages. He's dead last and all the advanced analytics. It's been a tough year. You just hope that it flips once you get all season. But but here's the thing. Does it carry forward? Yes, it does.
do was MVP at a conference finals and MVP at a finals. He's fine. I'm agreeing with you. Yeah, I'm not. I'm not making the all-star team. Yeah. We've had some great players that have great years, but he won a title last year. He's got those two accolades. It's going to be hard to keep him off the all-star team now.
And well, the bigger thing is there was no guy that, oh my God, like, I think if Jalen Johnson had been healthy the whole year and was healthy now, I think he would add a real chance. Yeah, I would agree with you there. I think he would have given him a run for his money. I'm happy Garland made it. I think Cleveland deserved three on that. And I truly do. I think it was even between he and, you know, and Donovan Mitchell and my estimation, I'm happy for Mobley because he could have been an odd man out. So I felt like he Mobley had to make it.
Yeah. Like, but to me, Mobley and Jared Jackson were non-starters. They had to be in the team. Yeah. But the two-way stuff, they're doing on really good teams. Yeah. And I feel good for a hero, because that's been a mess down there. Yeah. And he's on the trade market every year. Like, talk about, like, Miami and the way they treat their stars and all these guys are pointed. Like, Paul Pierce is pointing to, like, the way they treat Jimmy Buck. How about the way they treat a Tyler Hero? Every single year, he's on the trade market.
And they're just like putting them out. I will trade you for Dame. We'll trade you for Donovan Mitchell. We'll trade you for, uh, for Kevin Durant. Uh, and I never viewed him as an all star and for him to make it. I think that's huge. So I feel good for him. It helps Miami too. It really helps Miami, the title of your role made it because it kind of justifies that why they changed their offense and kind of went away from Jimmy as much as they used to, especially at crunch shop, which I think was the thing with Jimmy. I like, if you watch Miami,
Well basically everything last three minutes was revolving on here and I don't know if Jimmy was a giant fan of it but. And think about what that says about them I don't even think anybody's looking at them and saying that he's a snobby just hasn't been good this year at I don't know what that's the big I mean that goes to the you guys have talked about this a bunch but the post Olympics.
What happened to some of these guys? Why did it take so much out of them? Bam's the weirdest one because his offense just went sideways. We had to take a break and then I want to talk about the Butler trades and the Fox trades and what we think is going to happen.
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So we talked about Jimmy Butler before, and it seems like Golden State, we're taping this, it's six o'clock Pacific time right now, Thursday. Seems like Golden State's gonna be the team if there's a move, unless there's some surprise out of nowhere a team. And I was looking at impossible trades, and I think Wiggins has to be in it, because there's gotta be some sort of fat salary, and it's either Wiggins or Dremon, I just don't think they're gonna trade Dremon.
I just think that's Steph's guy that's just like he's over here. You can't touch him, but it would have to be Wiggins. I think it has to be Schroeder because he's an expiring. And then there's a comminga piece to it where comminga, if Golden State doesn't want to pay him, and it could potentially be Wiggins, comminga, and Schroeder.
and maybe like whatever else little small thing needs to put in. So there's two separate questions here. Is that a lot to give up for a guy who's been unhappy for a year? And then also if you're Miami,
You might actually be pretty good down the stretch. If you turn a guy who's not really playing at all into Wiggins, who's looked really good the last couple of weeks and most of the season, Cominga coming off the bench and then Shruder at point guard. It's a lot. I just think it's a lot. I think Jonathan Cominga could be the next butler. Who knows? I think he's just that good. I just think he's raw still. I think he sometimes gets out of character what he is at this present moment.
But would you pay him? Because you're going to have to pay him next summer. So what's he worth? I think he's that good, man. I do. I think from the, look, think about it, from how he's had to evolve as a player, like with Steph and Clay, you know, not, you're not taking shots early in the shot clock. You're not trying to dribble it up on the break and be creative. You couldn't do all of that. You can get a little bit of it done now because Clay's not there. But just based on what I've seen from him this year,
I just don't think they want to give him up. And if they do, I think it's going to pay a price, because Butler's what I mean, what, three years, maybe four at the most, left. And you got a young player in Camenga. I think Miami, if they could do that deal, they jump all over that.
But what's the point of keeping coming up if you're not going to play him or if you're going to yank him around like Steve Kirsten, like if he does, or if you're not going to pay him. Yeah, or if you're not going to pay him. And then like the flip side with Wiggins, though, is I wouldn't want Andrew Wiggins if I got to pay him $30 million this year, I got to pay him 30 next year, I got to pay him 30 after
After that, if he picks up the option, like, I'm not crazy about Andrew Wiggins, because to me, he just like, you know, it's the same reputation he had. You know, when he came into the league, he just floats in and out of games outside of the 2022 title run. I mean, Steph doesn't have a number two. And that's the other thing is
I don't agree with what's going on, Bill, and Phoenix, but at least I don't think it's going to work. At least they've picked a direction. At least they know what they want to do. Golden State's like, all right, well, we want to be in with Caminga for the future, but we want to compete right now with staff. Either go all in or just blow the thing up and start the rebuild. I don't agree with trying to do that. There's no blow up, though. They don't occur as the only real trade asset they have.
I don't know what the other move is. They almost got marketing, they almost got Paul George, and they're probably thinking they're lucky stars, neither of those trades happen, because they would give him up everything. They're being fooled right now, I believe. That's what it is. I think they beat Oklahoma City, and then all of a sudden they think, oh, man, all we need to do is just add something. So they have a conundrum right now. And the only reason they're going to keep winning games like that is because of the coaching of Steve Kerr, because of the greatness of Steph Curry.
That's why. So they'll beat good teens. And you'll start to think, oh, OK, maybe. Maybe we add somebody. I think it's a mistake. I do. I've said that. I think it's a mistake. I know Kirby will never give in to being traded. But I just think it's a mistake. I think their run is over with this group.
And, you know, but again, I just think that they're going to win some games, man. They're going to beat some teams and you're going to say, maybe they can do it again because they did it a couple of years ago. So if not like, they don't reach back to something and say, we've done it before. And I think that's part of their problem.
Yeah, but the problem is in 2022 and they did it. The league was completely different. I just don't think the league was nearly as good. There was some injury luck with some teams that went sideways and they kind of snuck in. They rode Curry who I think was at a slightly different point in his career to in 22 versus now. I think that 22 team would not be able to do that in 25 with how deep the league is and how good it is. I agree.
I'm torn on it because Justin, you remember in the early 90s with the Celts when we had the big three and the question was always, how long do we keep these guys? Well, we can't treat. We got to keep these guys together. They won titles for us. And the Celts were able to rebuild on the fly a little bit with Reggie Lewis, who was a godsend, Brian Shaw, D Brown, they had Ed Pinkney and they had this cool young old thing and it
It was pretty good. Like they weren't going to win the title, but they were in the mix. Like they, you know, they had two really good seasons and then Bird and McHale's house just couldn't hold up. I don't even think the Warriors are close to that level, you know? So if on them, it's either a question of, do we owe this to Curry because we're never trading him.
So if you feel, if you feel that way, then you got to do the Butler deal and give up whatever and try to hope that you catch lightning in a bottle with him. Or you got to think about trading curry and I just don't think they're going to do it. I got a question for you. I got a question for you, Bill. Yeah. So say if Golden State had two players in front of them to trade for Derek White or Devin Booker, who you think they want?
Well, Devin Booker is better. But why you why I saw something where you had Derek White being a better trade chip. No, I had Devin Booker in the top 20. He was not you saw the wrong thing. See, this is you get fooled by social media. Well, I just want to explain to me. Okay. All right. I have a Booker in the top 20.
Of course. Now, back to your other point before Eddie gave you some bad information. Classic fake news from Eddie. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa
said I did. No, I didn't. I said he was behind Derek White. I might as well. They just said Bill's a massive man. He was behind. Yeah. I'm behind a muscle muscle muscle. I had him number 16. I did have the jail and Williams and Kate Cunningham. I did have behind Evan Mobley and Sharon Jackson.
I think that's fair. Jalen, where are you? Well, Jalen Williams on a rookie contract. Would you rather pay Jalen Williams? 9 million a year? That's the whole point of a trade asset. So it's not about talent? No, it's about talent. It's about time of their career. It's about the salary. It's all those things. It's basically, you're telling me Phoenix wouldn't rather have Jalen Williams on a rookie contract.
The Devin Booker for 50 million a year. It opened up. There's no way. It's the same exact thing between you and Ed. Sirius thinks you're more talented, obviously, but you would cost them more money. So they settle for Eddie because he's making a lot less money. What makes you think that you would be the host and he would be the analyst? Because I'm a lot cheaper.
you hey hey Bill you see the ego on this crazed animal like he putting you in the analyst seat yeah it's the waterboy show it's too
Wait, I'm going to the state really quick. Let's say Butler goes back there. Let's say they, let's say they get a 50 cents, 40 cents of the dollar. Let's say she's Wiggins, Looney and Schruter and some protected pick. And that's a trade. My name is like, please take them, give them away. And Butler flips the switch. Like he's done a couple of times this year to show everybody still has it.
Does that team intrigue you at all? Or is that just the only because I don't think the playoffs, like, you know, it intrigues me a little bit, but not necessarily just because they're great, just because who in the West is his dominant? Like, do you how much faith do you have in Oklahoma City as good as they are? We've never seen them win more than one playoff series. She goes to sound like Sanders, still like a young guy who, as great as he is, hasn't really given us anything tremendous in the postseason. Is Shaq going to be healthy?
You know, teams with size have beat them up. Dallas has their number. The Lakers, I think, you know, aren't as talented. They match up well. So, you know, anything is possible. But I think it's just because of the weakness of the Western Conference. I don't know what you guys think.
Yeah, I think the West is wide open. I do. You got your talent at the top, but I think anything can happen. So that's why I think the teams in the West are going to be trying to be aggressive in the following week before the trade deadline to see if they can, you know, get that key player. And Bill, you touched on this with Goldspare a couple of weeks ago. I don't let, you know, this, this topic of like the West being better than the East, that is not the case this year. The Eastern Conference is better because the teams at the top are better.
Boston, Cleveland, New York are three of the top four teams, I think, in the entire NBA. There's one in the Western Conference OKC. So Cleveland, New York, Boston have to go through each other. OKC doesn't have to do that. He's just tougher than the West.
Yeah, I look at it like ceilings, like your regular season ceiling versus your playoff ceiling. So I see a team like Houston and I'm really impressed by them. I like a young team, kind of a weird collection of assets. They barely have even one all-star, but when you watch them, it makes sense together. I don't know if there's another gear for them if they're playing the same team six, seven times in two weeks. I think they'd be, they'd get easy. But when you think about like Boston, Cleveland, especially the Knicks,
There's another level I feel like they can go. I think question for me with OKC, because I think everybody's going to defend them the same way. They're just going to trap Shay. They're going to send two guys at him. They're going to put, they're going to make Jalen Williams and some of these other guys basically have the ball in big moments a lot like how people are defending the Celtics.
The smart teams with the Celtics are trapping Jason at the top. They're sending two guys at him. They really want like Jalen Brown to decide the games now because he's not playing that well. And I just don't know if Jalen Williams can win four straight playoffs in a row for you and how is Shay gonna figure out how do I be regular season Shay when I'm just seeing this constantly.
So I think the West is open is my point. Well, I think Oklahoma City is vulnerable because they're small. Even if they bring check and they have Hardenstein, I still say they're small because they're going to play small ball. Even with those guys, they're going to rotate to small guys. And I just never see that really working in the finals. The Celtics people looked at them, they weren't small. No, we had to lay everywhere. Jalen Brown looks like a mini Hercules. People see these dudes up close. They'll see how big they are.
And so it's a different animal, but you bought a Houston. I'm telling, I don't think Houston's getting out of the West to the finals, but I would bet money that
often wouldn't want to see them if they were on the other end of that. Because the one team, I think, matches up with them with physicality and a nastiness is he's like, you don't get the other day knows all the weaknesses. I mean, they're dealing Brown and he knows what Brown can do. He knows how to defend Tatum. And, you know, so that that's another thing in that matchup. Well, there's
The Clippers game, I think, unfortunately, was a bad game for the Celtics long term because the Clippers coaching that game was so smart. They basically laid out the blueprint or reminded everybody the blueprint of what to do in the Celtics. And then Gundy was amazing that both of those guys.
And now like Houston was basically doing a lot of the same stuff that the Clippers did in that game. And if you have big swings, you can protect the rim a little bit and you just keep blitzing Tatum and making everyone else beat you. It's basically what it's going to come down to is Ken Jalen Brown get back to where he was last year. Because last year we were arguing about one A, one B with Tatum and Brown. It's that argument's over. Like it's one two and we need to Jalen get back to one B.
Well, I think that I honestly believe Bill, these guys aren't built to get deep and go repeat, repeat, repeat like it used to be, right? It's just something that the guys in the 80s and the 90s add that these guys just don't have and it's not all their fault. They make a ton of money, man. Even guys in the 80s and 90s, they had to push because they needed more money.
like they weren't even paid highly like so they had a reason to go for it every year they they needed that playoff money like these guys don't need to play off money like and so they have to be pushed and i think what's going to happen with boston
is when it gets after April, I mean, not April, March, and it's they can see the end of it. We're going to see the Boston team that we saw last year. I don't, I think Jalen's going to wrap it up. And Tatum's going to wrap it up because now they can see the end. So I am not down on Boston. Haven't been all year. I've made excuses for them because, and think of that, I'm making excuses for teams you all love.
I'm not, we're not down on them either. I'm just, yeah. No, I agree. So with concern, as far as the fatigue, I don't even want to hear that as an excuse because I was so anti, you know, all those guys go into the Olympics, then they had to do Abu Dhabi. So that's not like shocking to me that they're struggling. But I hated the fact they went to the Olympics. That's why I can't stand the Olympics. And then I know you love them, Bill. I hate them because I think, you know, I'm a patriot, Justin. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I care about my country.
Yeah, I care more about the Celtics or my NBA teams and Denver and the Oak Ridge doing well. But no, it drives me nuts. Like Philadelphia fans should be irate that Embiid's not playing. But that's true. Yeah. But the thing that calms me the most is like what other team can give you what Porzingis is doing right now. So like as bad as other things are going, like I was at that game last night. Porzingis, you know, 34 points at the key of 29 in the first half. If he's playing anything close to the level he's played at the last couple of weeks and stays healthy, to me, they're still easily working.
That's not what we want. Keep word healthy. Keep word healthy. That's for everybody. I mean, for him, I'm saying if he's healthy, they are a major problem. So for him, it's just staying healthy and how they use him. Well, what if I said this to you? The 2025 champion will come from the East.
I can, I can push back a little bit on that because what I can say is, as what you all used to say about the West, it was top heavy, they had a lot of talent. And so about time they got to the finals, they were tired. Yeah. I can say the same thing with the East right now. And those three teams at the top and just say, for instance, say, say, for example, Philly gets healthy.
Okay. And they went to first round series, right? And all of a sudden, it's a problem. We're back at the Matrix. It's a problem. I'm just making a point. Yeah. Don't say just say Philadelphia pushes Boston or Cleveland to like six games. When typically it would be a sweep in the first round. Yeah, you got to go play. The winner series just they pushed them.
Yeah, say, for example, they end up like, you know, playing the Celtics in the first round, like Boston plays Philadelphia. They got to go six games when typically that's four or five. Then they got to play New York. That goes six or seven. And they got to play Cleveland six or seven. Meanwhile, Oklahoma City's cruising through the West. They're a little beat up. I mean, by the way, what you just laid out was the reason the Lakers won all those titles in the 80s, because they never had to play anybody. The East was just killing each other.
And the Lakers were like, oh, we got to play the Spurs in the Western finals. Oh, no. They didn't have to go to the Pistons. You know, for the Sixers. They wanted talented. They were talented. They were talented. They were a talented team. They were a dominant team. It's like, and so were the Celtics, but then they had a hard road to get there. Just like the Bulls were a dominant team in the East, but it was teams that were good. It was people that were good in the East when the Bulls were running through the East.
It was a runway the files
Yeah, because he was dominant. It was more impressive that the Celtics in the 80s went to four consecutive finals than LeBron in the Eastern Conference going into the 2000s. He was dominant. He was dominant. He was dominant. He dominated all those things. Those 80s Lakers had two rivals, both of whom flamed out immediately, the 86 Rockets who were the absolute all-time Kryptonite team for them. And that team implodes with drugs. And then the Mavs, that same era,
get Freud Tarpleys stays healthy. And they actually have to go through those two teams that lay the, as you know, I hate the Lakers. The luck that they had in the eighties was unbelievable with the, with their point. You live in LA and you like, how do you live in LA and you hate. I've come to grips a little while ago. That's amazing. I mean, you know, there's a lot to hate.
That's like living in the 10,000 square foot house, but you hate the girl and she looked like a team. I mean, you really come. I would lean toward the East for to produce our champion, but I'm also not tied to it for a bunch of reasons. One, all the stuff you laid out about how better of it's going to be. But two, there's still some West teams. I'm not crossing up Denver at all. I know they've had a goofy year. I'm just not crossing them off yet because I'm just not.
No, I'm not. I mean, you know what? Like, I'm a little higher than I was on him a couple of weeks ago, but like everybody's making a big deal about Jamal Murray, all of a sudden waking up. I mean, he's been better than he was at the beginning. He's been definitely 100% better. We talked about him a month ago on your show. And I was terrified that he's better. Yeah, but he's also not like a high level number two. He's playing OK. Oh, but he's playing better. He's playing better, but he still needs to be better. OK, hold on. I'm making a match contract.
All right, Justin Turner, you say he's not a high level, but when they won the title, was he high level? Absolutely. I thought he was better during the recovery was during the one could become high level then. Hopefully, but we haven't seen it for a couple of years. Well, but we're seeing it now. And I think, again, like I said, I'm not so high level. He's been better, but he hasn't been great, but he's been pretty good. He's got 30 plus games left. So my point is where he is right now and how he's trending. He's getting back to himself.
I hope so. And Bill, I've never gotten off the bandwagon with Denver. He knows Justin knows this. I'm not, they have too much talent. You all, a couple of years ago said they had the best starting five in the basketball and they still got those same guys.
No, they don't get it. They turn brown. I actually probably better. Yeah. It doesn't matter. They took away from the bench when they like people go like, Oh, they got rid of fucking Christian Brown's better. Well, Christian Brown has to go in the starting lineup. Just off their bench. Justin, I hear what you say about the bench. I'm not arguing that.
But Christian Brown is a better player than Contagious Call will hope. But he's showing it right now. That's fine. It was on the bench. So now the bench is starting five is just the same five and better right now. The bench has to get better. I agree. But the starting five that won a title to the same guy. The league is better. I mean, I just think it's so admirable for the very small market Denver Nuggets to
patched together this team when they have so many fine. Oh, no, that's actually Denver's a big city. My bad. And they're owned by like a very old guy is married to the Walmart family. And somehow they can't get like a ninth or 10th man. And they're trading three second round picks just to get rid of the contract. They signed Reggie Jackson too. So now they have no assets to get better. So even if Yokech was whining like Anthony Davis or LeBron, they couldn't do anything about it because they have nothing to trade. Oh, he knows. Congratulations.
All yoke's needs is to get to the finals and does not have to play against Carl Anthony towns who owns his lunch. Oh, stop it. Yeah. No, that's not good. He can't even score. Call. Can I knock them down twice? Stop. He's locked them down right now. Come out of the window. He had pedestrian numbers. Carl Anthony towns is locked. We don't watch the game last night. Can I ask you guys about one West team?
Is it, I'm gonna whisper this one. Clippers, is there something there? It's a playoff team. It's Kawhi. Yeah. Kawhi can actually start to look like damn high. I saw him the other day. I saw him the other day. Okay. He did a few things in that game that made me say, hmm, he's back to that. I mean, he pushed the ball of the court and I mean, he looked fast.
just laterally, like that's what I'm looking at. And they're afraid to play them and I get it. They took about a 28 minute, 28 minute limit. And it's like 20 minutes around. They did. I'm glad they did. Cause you know, who knows, we might not be them the other night, but no, he looked good, man.
That's all I'm going to say. But he's done this before. So just and they have Zubots who's turned into not an all-star center, but he was maybe in the Borderlands. Hardin and Powell. Yeah. Kawhi, all these role players. And I think they have a top three coaching staff. Exactly. If you mentioned just about everything, they can defend with the best teams in the NBA. I tie Luda. Really smart.
You want to say like Eric Spulser is the best head coach. All right. Well, Ty lose right on his heels. I think he's the second or third best head coach in the sport. So you're right there. I mean, a lot of us in the media are going to look like absolute morons if they make a deep run because we crushed him. But yeah, I wouldn't be shocked if they made a run. See.
Justin cares about that more than we're not going to bat a thousand. We're going to get some stuff wrong. There was no sign, none, that the Clippers were going to be a possible playoff team. You were worried about a lot. You were worried about a lot. But also they lost Paul George, exactly, was important for them. And they replaced them with a bunch of dudes. And it's like, and then when you watch them, the team makes sense. Derek Jones is a really good ad for them.
You know, and then you think like Kawhi comes in, all he's doing is taking Batum's minutes and some Terrence Mann minutes. It's like, this is legit. Even if he plays 25 minutes a game, Hardin, I still feel like the right teams can take him out because he doesn't have the same burst that he did. Like if he's going against like a Houston or a Memphis, like teams with young big wings that they can throw at him, I think it's hard for him to get his shots. But I'll tell you another thing that's, and I've talked about it before, but Eddie, have you done a game yet?
Oh, yeah. They have a borderline home court advantage now, which is what they never had anything before. They got off to a slow start. And I think it's just them getting familiar with their own court. But since then, they've been pretty good. I think they've only lost one. They lost four games early and they've only lost four games since. No, that is a tremendous advantage. That wall is ridiculous. I mean, you did. You did see LeBron air ball of free throw, I think, with, you know, the wall of your show. Right.
You know, I, I think that team's really interested in me. The Spurs, if they got Fox, which we should talk about, um, just what I just, I want to watch this next two wimpy months because they're 20 and 24 right now. And somehow there are only five games out of the box. Well, that's the thing. It's probably a lot of picks. Actually, let's talk about that. We'll take one more break.
Darren Fox, I was taping a pod on Tuesday with Priscilla. And then all of a sudden this trade thing came out and I was like, boy, that's weird. And that's like, he has a specific team. And then it turns out he wants to go to the Spurs. I haven't talked about this on my pod. I know you've probably talked about it on your show, Justin. I had great career move by Darren Fox trying to go to the Spurs. Like this is like trying to join the hit TV show that's going to be the number one show on TV for the next 10 years. Like it's
I get why he wants to do it. They need somebody like him. The question for me is, what is the timetable for the Spurs? Do you even need to do this now? What's the point of it? You have no chance to win a title. If he wants to play for you this bad, why not just wait till he's a free agent? Why am I giving up stuff for him now? He's trying to get out ahead of it, right? Because everybody's going to want to go there. So it's a smart decision by him if that's what he wants to do. Because Eddie could still play. Eddie would be like,
I'm here. I'll stand in the corner. Every single player in the league should want that. All the broadcasters like, you know, us, we should want to go down there and cover him and just like, gosh, you know, be there play by play guys because it's going to be fun for like 15 years where you get to watch that every single night. So like it's smart by Darren Fox. Now the question is, is it smart by San Antonio to go out there and get him? I mean, is that like, what is he 27? So, uh, by the time when Ben Yama is ready, you know, he
And I think when Beniella, I guess, is ready right now, but I guess the other pieces because you need more than just. Yeah, they're pretty far away. But like, is he even the guy that you think fits in perfectly with him? I mean, he shoots in the low thirties in regards to three point percentage. You know, he's not a particularly high level defender. He has an impacted winning in Sacramento. So I don't know if that's like my first choice D or in Fox.
You automatically become a better defender with that dude behind you. Oh, of course. You would be a defender with him behind you. Right. I don't know about that. And the Aaron Fox is so good at that. But here's where the fit is perfect. And I brought this up the other day. When Foxwood's abundance was really good, but the problem is they're both left hand.
Now you're coming off that screen with, with, with now. Now he's going off to his right and there and Fox is to his left. It's a better pass. It's an easier fluid pass. It's all of that. And I think Fox is looking at that as well. A lot of times he and Sabona's kind of went into each other a little bit.
uh because of that dynamic but now like this dude coming off left and you gotta agree he's one of the best guys in the paint in regards to being a guard and now he's got that size to really initiate stuff too i think that's one of the reasons why he's looking at it and i think he's the perfect blend for him
You know, and I think even Chris Paulin times has a tough time with that in regards to him. So, you know, because Chris is a more like a right handed guy as well. So I think the nuances there, man, is just, it's going to be really good if he's able to get there. Puss Fox was, they were two seed two years ago. He was the best guy on that team. So it's not like he, teams haven't succeeded with them. I guess the way I'm looking at it, the risk would be
If we don't do this now, what if somebody trumps him? What if somebody else trades for him? What if we lose this opportunity? So then who are the other guys out there? Because they clearly need somebody like this. They need somebody, give him the car keys, let him run shit. And it's like you start looking around the league, who else is it? Like Garland's not leaving Cleveland. Garland was the guy to get last summer and they probably should have tried to overpower them.
Do you wait on Hope Maxie? Hope Philly just goes so far sideways that maybe they would just want a complete rebuild. You go through all the rosters and he's kind of the best fit for what they need. And he probably will never leave because he's from Texas. So he wants to be in Texas. And you want players on your team that want to be in a certain region, especially if it's San Antonio. Why would you leave once you get there? I mean, you're going to be winning. You're going to be playing on national television every day. Well, okay. But Penny Hardaway left.
Penny Hardaway and Shaq broke up. Safari Marbury left Kevin Gardner. Well, that was the worst one. That's right at the beginning of their career. Fox is not playing Sacramento so much games. They get hooked up to Rembin Yama. Not if he chooses to go there, but you were like rattling off names, Bill. Like,
Luke is a free agent, what two years. All you hear about is Miami. Why is it only Miami that can get these guys? Oh, he culture. He culture is red hot right now. Like, but you know, you hear that name link to Miami. Why can't Luke be linked to playing with when Ben Yama? Does that make that makes Luke look like a loser? Honestly, like he's just going to.
This is the same shape. The same shape we make a ranch or I know, but they were looking for that for eight years in Yama. You need to stop. No, he went to Wade was one of the three best players in the league when he went there was the best player on the team until Wade figured it out and stopped trying to do everything the next year. And they want to back the back. I dare you even bring that analogy up. Wow. Wade was. Wade was probably the third best player in the league.
And the best player on maybe second in the 2011 playoffs, he was the best part of the team. Exactly. He was a chopped liver. You already had a title. And Shaq was a chopped liver either way. Don't sniff a finals victory back then. If it wasn't for Shaq in the last little morning. So you are. I mean, I agree with that. That's fine. But he was still a top five player. So if you're San Antonio and you can trade for Fox, keep Castle, because Castle is just, I'm not even discussing him. Yeah, not discussing when be.
and you can potentially keep for sell. And then you add Fox and I don't care. Take your pick. What picks do you want? Like I would probably do it as long as it wasn't an insane amount of picks. I don't know what these teams are doing with all their picks. If they can keep so high and they need to keep them. They can keep him man. Atlanta, they have Atlanta's pick, right? The upcoming draft as well. So that's going to get more value because Jalen Johnson's hurt. So yeah, that was a tough and more value.
I really like that Atlanta team too. I thought they were like a six seed kind of range sleeper and then they just can't get healthy. I mean, they beat the Celtics twice in Boston. They beat Cleveland. I get multiple times. Because Trey's having a great year. He was a snub. Let's just put it where the trade was a snub. Trey Young was a snub because the way he's played, he's changed his game. He realized he's not stiff.
He stopped playing like Steph, and he started playing like a point guard. And he's had a, he's had a very good year, man. And so I think he's a snub in the East as well. So is the league more fun if there's a Fox to San Antonio trade this year? I think it is. We basically sacrifice Sacramento as a playoff team and replace them with San Antonio because I think they'd be correct. Sacramento? Yeah. If Chris Paul was in the trade. Yeah.
You think Sacramento could still patch it together. They'd have an older team, right? So why'd you try to trade them? Why'd you trade them from Phoenix? Why'd you sign off on that deal? I wasn't the GM telling us.
What are you blaming me? Remember that year when Eddie thought use of their kitchen was good? We had like, yeah, like I remind him over and over again. Thank you. Look, guys, obviously you guys, I have to eat crow because you all can get on me based on what's going on. But I will say this.
You know, do you honestly think that he was able to play the way that he can play? Like he's a rebounder. That's what you're good. Yeah, he's one of the best. He should be on a lottery team. He's one of the best. I mean, he might be on the shirt. And that's what he is. I've never looked at him either any more than that. The biggest problem for Turkish and I hope he improves it because it seems like he probably will get moved.
is he's just gotta make, I don't know what it is, he's gotta find out wherever a Pete Newell protege is, and he's just gotta spend a whole summer with him. Eddie, he's in his 30s, it's not happening, give up the guns. But that's a ground, that's a ground. This is too much circuit talk already. Does he talk to you Eddie, or does he only talk to boot in the holster?
No, you're just walking to him. He's already packed. He goes to the sun's games and he has all the suitcases in case the trade happens. Well, obviously it's not good when you're not playing and you're not talking to the coach. I can't even run from that. It's not, it's not good, but I will say this. He's been very good on the bench over there.
That hasn't been a negative. Let's give it a little bit. Twenty million years. They set the bench out of a place. Other things are watching. He still takes more free throws in the audience. He's watching. So he's doing it the right way. He's doing it the right way. Even though he doesn't play, he still takes more free throws in DeAndre. I saw that stat. What is he at? 1.1?
Well, no, he might go back to Portland. The thing that ticked me off is Eddie and I talked about that on the show like two days ago. And then Stat News came out with that. Stat News. Yeah, the vultures. They stole it from us. Yeah. He might be back in Portland, guys. You never know. Eddie, can we go back to Webby for a second? What year did you enter the league? 85? 81.
81. The self is smartly drafted aims you ahead of them. Thank you, Red Harbor. Hey, Bill, you noticed that was the worst, worst draft the Celtics ever had. Really? What was it? They had a chance to draft me. I remember the story. They drafted. And she made an all star team. You never know. We messed up the other two picks up. Cause she calls you all another title to.
Oh my God. Bird would have put Eddie in the Hall of Fame. He'd be like Michael Cooper. The Hall of Fame. Oh my God. Bill, Bill, Bill without a doubt he would have. All right. So you've been in the weeks since 1981 in various capacities. Have you ever seen anything remotely approaching when being person? No. He's the biggest freak of nature I've ever seen. Now I used to say that about Marky.
I used to say it about Manupo, who obviously not the talent that Wimpy is. But when you look at a dude like that, and I even said it one time about, you know, Joe Imbi, Justin and I was in the summer league standing next to him and I didn't realize how massive he was. Right. But Wimpy, no, I've never seen anything like that. I'm serious, man. Look, when you can dump, he's in the warm up line dunking flat footed. Right. I've never seen that.
So when you're on the plane after a game or all the sun's players and coaches just talking about him for the next half hour problem with our plane. They said way up in the front. We fly one of the big giant monstrosity. Oh, you're not near them. Never even seen. They didn't invite you for the poker games. Never even seen. Nope. Never seen. It's not amazing. You can, it's not amazing. You can fly on the plane.
and you never see the play. Jesus. Well, in your day, you're, you're, you're sitting in airports. Oh, you're connecting flights. I'm like, please. Yes. Well, with the coaches, it was like everybody. Yeah, it's not like that. People are coming up to you in the gates. That was such a fascinating era.
Yeah, it was. Yeah, it was. Just eating like McDonald's with a two-hour connection in Kansas City trying to go somewhere else. Yeah. Hold on. No, getting on a flight five in the morning and some guy sitting next to you and he wants to have a conversation. You don't even know who it is. Right. So are you a basketball player? So we should talk about the Suns.
Yuda, because you weren't on Justin's show today, so he didn't get the privilege, pleasure, honor of your reaction to the ESPN story about some of the Sun stuff. My take, and I've said this before, is I actually think the Sun's, the team they built, is a team that really made sense in the 2010s, but the league is just way better now.
in that star system, which a bunch of teams have where they have the two really good guys, just doesn't work the way it did. Like you, you really need seven and nine guys who can be good at all times, built around the two. And I don't know how they, they're kind of down this road down. I don't know how they fix it. I know they freed up some picks, but is this even fixable in your opinion? You're at every game. I think it is. And I've said this time and time again, just watching them all year.
They're the biggest problem. It's not the opponent, it's them. And what I mean by it is if you look statistically at the numbers when they went, if they don't turn it over, and I mean like you're gonna turn the ball over, but I mean like 14, 15, you're giving up 18, 20 points, alternatives. The games they don't do that, they win. The games they rebound, at least stay close on the offensive glass, they win.
because they normally outshoot the opponent. Like we have lost a numerous amount of games this year where we've shot 49, 50% and lost. Why? Because the opponent got 18 more field goal attempts. And that is the issue with them. It's like, it's so simple. And we see it, we've seen it over the stretch when they've been winning. We see it over the stretch when they don't turn it over and they rebound, they win.
And they know it, but they just can't. It's just like last night, last night, pretty much had the game under control. I start, start turning it off. Like it's just, it's, it's that part that drives nuts. And, and, you know, I think it's, that's fixable to me. It really, that's fixable. Cause say what you want about Bradley Bill and people say it doesn't fit and all that do plan his butt off off the bench, man. Like,
He literally is trying to defend, and he's literally scoring the ball at will. And he's obviously one of our most efficient players.
So it's just that part that drives me nuts calling the game. And you know, obviously I can't go all crazy, but it's just like I'm watching it and I'm like, dude, just take one more dribble to the right and throw it into the post. Why are you, you know, it's just simple things that they get in trouble with. And it's just really is like it drives you nuts to watch it at times. What do you see, Justin?
Yeah, I mean, I think any hit it on the head with the rebounding did they might have the worst center rotation. We've talked about this on the tax. They might have the worst center rotation in the entire NBA. So they can't rebound. Uh, that's an issue. The rebound now does. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now you got Nick. We're taking a little change in 1965. Exactly. I mean, he almost gave you a 2020 game the other day. So it's improved a little bit, but yeah, rebounding is an issue. I mean, they're one of the five worst defensive teams in the NBA.
And I too agree like that it's fixable again, because I don't have much confidence in the teams at the top of the Western Conference outside of Oklahoma City. I'm the more on the victim to go to the finals this year. Eddie picked him to win the title like three straight years. Then he didn't pick him this year. I picked him to go to the finals and lose. So I think it's fixable this year. But the issue I have is long term. You don't win this year. Like say, get Jimmy Butler and rectify it. It's not going to get better next year. It's not going to get the better the year after that. And you're stuck with what you have.
I think like this year, they could still make a pretty decent run. But after that, moving forward, they might be the biggest mess in the NBA. And why did they make that trade for three different picks if they didn't have something lined up? Like they turned a 2031 pick that's going to be valuable. I thought when they made that deal, okay, well, they know they're going to turn it into Jimmy Butler or some other big piece. They've done that. They don't have anything lined up. Great. But if they if they don't make a move, it's pretty weird.
I had the same reaction. You don't do that because they basically turned the $2 bill into, you know, a dollar and two quarters. You don't do that unless you know you're about to do something. So then everybody's like, all right, I can't wait to see what it is. A week passed.
Like if you just wanted Zach Levine, you could trade like St. Bradley Beal and attach the 2031 pick. Now he wouldn't go to Chicago apparently, but the point is like that would get it done perhaps because that pixel. Well, my guess is they're trying to use one of the picks to dump their kids on another team, right? So then maybe he's in a three team or a four team trade, whatever, but either way, once you dump him,
You have more flexibility to do the next move. And I'm sure there has to be some master plan. But yeah, I mean, personally, me personally, I think I think that we're a physical player away from really being competitive this year in the playoffs. And that's at the forward position, whoever that guy can be.
I just don't think it has to be a guy that's high level guy. I just think it's a guy that rebounds the ball. If we get more field goal attempts than the opponent, we'll win. I will put anything on that with the scores that we have. If we can rebound and don't allow second chance points and get the same amount of field goal attempts, I think we'll win most games.
And I think that's their, that's their weakness right now is the rebounding. And if they can shore that up and I'm pretty sure that's what they're trying to do, then I think it helps. That's awesome. Tough one for me because that was one of my best bets that into the year was Phoenix over 47 now. Eddie, you've watched the rant now for almost two years up close to in every game. Is there anything?
that stood out that you just had no idea until you're watching him that afternoon. He's just relentless, man. But when I tell you, he's just relentless to do.
Like, you know, it's never an accident to be that good offensively, right? It's not an accident. I'll just give you all the story real quick. We had a large event and it was at the practice facility about a month and a half ago. And everybody was dressed up and everything. And they had like a little mingle thing going on with the fans and all that. And they had the baskets down the whole entire night. He was shooting.
I was blown away. Like the whole entire night, he was over that shoot. You know, people come over and talk to him and all that. He shot the entire night.
And I'm saying to myself, dude, why do you have to teach you? We know it's ingrained in him. So it's like something he was doing from age six, which is what he does. That's just part of his life every day. Yeah. And the impact, I mentioned it to him, yeah, because I've been able to talk to him since then.
It's like, that blew me away. Like, it's like, that's why this dude is this good offensively. Like, he just, he understands his craft and, and he knows what he has to do. But no, the shot making, man, I, you know, watching it from afar and all of that. Yeah. But no, just to see it every day. It's, it's ridiculous, man. I keep waiting for signs of slippage with him because he's been in the league for 18 years now, Justin.
Yeah. You know, there's moments when he looks a little stiffer than maybe when you go back and you watch like the early OKC stuff and he's just such a crazy freak seven foot and just so he's it's a whiff stiffer, but he has all the same shots. And he's so smart. And it's almost like what was happening with LeBron near the end when you just kind of know where to go, where to be. You can read everything and you know exactly what your best play is.
Um, I don't really see a lot of slippage. I don't know how much longer this goes. Yeah. I, and I, the thing I don't understand, just like the talent from like an individual perspective, I haven't seen a drop off. I just don't understand why it doesn't result in, in team success ever since he left, uh, Golden State, right? He goes to Brooklyn. Like you saw him play the Celtics on the first round. He did get outplayed by Tatum and all four of those games. That was the second year. The first year though, they had the bad luck. Oh, he was, you know, that's the big, whatever.
Exactly with his foot on the line and all that type of stuff. And he was like, they probably go on to maybe win a championship because they were facing Phoenix in the finals. They would beat Phoenix. And then he goes to Phoenix and they've been unable to get out of the second round. They get swept last year. So it's like weird that it hasn't translated as a team success, even though he's played with talented players. I will add something just like an individual story because Eddie and I crushed him when he went to Golden State. I know you were a little bit easier on him.
I go back and forth with him on Twitter, and I've been critical of aspects of his career and his decision-making, even though he's an amazing talent. We interviewed him last year, and I've had a lot of stars who I'll be critical of. They won't even look at me like Durant comes up and he jokes around about it. We laugh about some of the stuff that I've criticized for him in the past, answers every question, jokes around, gives you a high five, says hello whenever you see him. So I just love the way the guy handles himself.
You know, there's something Eddie said about when we talk about LeBron once, when, when you think like when somebody gets to the league that they maximize whatever the potential of what they could have been, right? I think LeBron's the best example of this, whatever you thought the ceiling was and he had the most expectations, just about anybody. And then he hit all the expectations. I think the rants like that too. And yet he's always going to have this thing about switching teams.
And that's going to become part of the legacy. But what's interesting to me about legacies is just watching Vince Carter, right? He gets this Jersey retired in Toronto and in New Jersey. He's in New Jersey for four and a half years. I just don't think anybody gives a shit after a while, right? Even Toronto, where you would think
at any fan base would be the maddest at a player who left. And even they were like, yeah, we don't care. And I just think when Durant, when he retires, everybody's like, Oh, what's going to happen? Who's going to retire his number? I think he'll get his number retired at OKC and Golden State.
They'll probably do it. They'll be fine. If the rate they do it, they'll probably do it in Brooklyn. I mean, Brooklyn might. If they're in New Vince Carter, maybe Katie's ex. Exactly. And the Vince Carter one really bothers me. Are they going to give Jimmy Butler a Jersey retirement? Are they going to, you know, put a mic? Maybe. I'm not real anything else. Like the Vince Carter thing I couldn't believe.
Paul George is upset because he never got a tribute video. I don't know if you saw that. He came out. I saw that. He tried to force a trade at Indiana for a year. Exactly. And like you treat the organization, that way you leave them high and dry and you want to be like honored. I just don't understand. Like there's a reward for handling yourself the right way in the city. And then you'll get the honor. If you leave in a wrong way, then you shouldn't get it.
I think people have a forgiving heart and I think we've had friends in our lives that we probably thought we'd never be friends with them again and years go by. And we kind of get a softer heart and we give in to the temptation of maybe, you know,
So you're telling me I like you in 20 years and 20 years. I don't like you then. I mean, well, hey, you do it. You got a lot of people that have been divorced and they still get along. You know, it's just, I just think fans, I think over a period of time, I think they just remember the good times and they, and they forget. It is funny. It is crazy how that works out. The Toronto thing really blew my mind.
It's like you can quit on a team and then you can get honored. Yeah, I don't understand that. Yeah, I get like there were some good times in it too, but it's I guess there's a statue of limitations for other stuff. But back to KD like I just think all that stuff washes away. He won two titles. He's one of the best.
either 15 or 20 players ever, depending on, you know, what your list is. And that's just going to be the legacy. But 100% because people only count stuff. Like you go back in, you know, the 1960s, all they do is count 1970s. They just look at basketball reference. They don't look at the context behind anything. So yeah, it's going to matter. Maybe to me and you, how we want to championship in 50 years, they're just going to count it on basketball reference with absolutely no clue.
But I'll just say this, and I've told him this, I was upset that he went there only because I wanted OKC to beat Golden State. That's why I was upset. And I knew him going to Golden State. He was going to win championships. But Golden State was not beating LeBron if he did not go there.
And, and I think that's what he can carry. And I think Golden State fans know that. So I think, yeah, they're going to retire as Jersey. They're going to treat them like the king there because they knew they were in trouble. They knew that they weren't going to beat that Cleveland team the next couple of years. I'm going to respectfully disagree. I think they weren't going. State went 73 games. Curry was heard that 2016 playoffs in Cleveland the next two years. Kyrie Lebron got rocky Kyrie left.
Um, I don't know. Stuff got weird in Cleveland. And the other thing is like, I always look at it. If you replace Durant with that, like, I mean, even go back to another Golden State. Great. If you put Rick Barry on that Golden State team, they're definitely winning the title. If you replace Durant with Barry and that's what bothers me. Like even Rick Barry, like in his sixties or Rick Barry, maybe even then, but definitely like during the prime career.
I'm saying the same thing. I agree. It was an automatic win, but they weren't going to have that automatic win because if he did not go there, maybe not, but it's just hard. Like if you took Jalen Brown, for example, and put him there, they're definitely winning as well. And he's not anywhere close to me. He had the big shots too. It was like he had the big shots to seal
There were no big shots. They were winning the series in four or five games. Nobody hit the big shots. I mean, he hit the big shots in that series. And so that's the difference. But this is the thing, like, if you just go back to that Clay Thompson game, the sliding doors of it, OKC just beats gold state, then OKC plays Cleveland in the finals. And it feels like the next nine years of the league is just different. I don't know how it plays out. Like, what if OKC beats Cleveland?
And then it's like LeBron doesn't get the title in Cleveland. Does he stay in Cleveland until he gets the title? What happens? What happens to go in state if Durant doesn't go there? Like they're, you know, I, it's probably the biggest what if of this century. And then you're, you know, if you Durant completely different. Yeah. Doesn't have to deal with any of the BS that he's dealt with his entire career. And so he's gonna leave us, but just, uh, look, if Denver wins, it's going to be Westberg, Lee and Yolkich. So don't worry about it.
No, of course. This is finally, we can all agree on Westbrook at the same time, which I don't know if it's ever happened. I love Westbrook and Yokech. I never gave up on West. I know you did. I got a hand it to you. Never gave up. I said you should retire earlier this year. And I'm just, I just want to say that I'm glad that Westbrook found a teammate that was smart enough to understand how to utilize him. You find that's the thing. It's weirdly bad for LeBron, Eddie. This is like in the Yokech versus LeBron argument. This is not this an L for LeBron.
Bill, it's easy to say that, but here's what I told Justin last week is like, Yokech is the best, it was the best combination for Westbrook because what LeBron, LeBron handled the ball, Westbrook handled the ball. It wasn't a good mix. Down in Houston, hard handled the ball, Westbrook handled the ball. It was not a good mix.
Uh, you know, even when he went to Washington and he played with Bill, Bill was wanting to handle the ball in Washington. Westbrook didn't take off until Bill got injured. And here was my response. Yeah. And so that is this a best combination? Exactly. Yokech plays differently than everyone else.
Yeah. And so you're right, Eddie. And LeBron should have been intelligent enough to understand that that he meets the ball. Westbrook meets the ball. And that was LeBron's mistake. Because he wanted to play. Well, no, no, the ball goes into the King's hands. That's the that's the one real nitpick with LeBron is everybody else has to fit toward him. And that's the way it should be. That's the way it should be. That's the way it should be. That's the way it should be. That's the way it should be. That's the way it should be. That's the way it should be. That's the way it should be. That's the way it should be. That's the way it should be. That's the way it should be.
Yeah, LeBron made a mistake bringing them there. I will say that. But the ball goes into LeBron's hands. I don't care who's on the floor with him. Other than his magic or bird, you can make that argument. Okay, bringing the ball up. I'm saying, not in the half boy, because then we can argue yokies. But what I'm saying is ball goes into LeBron's hands. That's just the way it is.
Also, though, the fact that Westbrook is seems like he's like 95% as explosive as it was 12 years ago. It's just an all-time freak. Even LeBron slowed down and got bigger and changed some of what he did. Westbrook seems like he's just like... I don't know. I don't understand it. Even though I said he should retire, I'm happy that he is not because I do love his mental approach. It's awesome. We need it. That cares every single night as much as he is.
Think about this, though. What about Preston? He had three MVPs, okay? And all three of those guys were three of the best condition athletes. Now, Harden had his ups and downs. But the one thing about Harden, he played every night.
And he had to bring the ball up against little dudes. He beat him off the dribble. So his energy level was high as well. But those three guys, KD, Russ, on the same team, you can put them up there with the top energy guys in the history of the game. I mean, they have been, they persevere.
I flew to Oklahoma City at the end of 2010 because I just wanted to go to a game that I really liked watching OKC. And I just kind of wanted to see them before they ascended to whatever was going to happen with them. And I went to a practice.
And at the end of the practice, they were running the wind sprints and KD and Russ were beating everybody in the wind sprints. And they're like busting each other's ass trying to beat some random day in December in the middle of the season. And they're flying back and forth trying to beat each other. And I really think like that, like all those early years where they're competing against each other and Hardin's trying to compete against them probably had some weird
You know, carry on effect to the fact that we're in the mid 2020s and all those guys are still on important teams, you know, doing their thing. Cause that are on their mid 30s. It's amazing. Yeah. Um, before we go quick, quick game of do you believe?
Do you believe in Cleveland as an actual title contender, Justin? I do. Eddie likes, we've had this debate, because Eddie likes the Knicks more than the Cavs. I like the Cavs more than the Knicks. And, you know, I love what, here's what we do agree, though, on Cleveland is we both love that Donovan Mitchell's taken a step back.
I'm involved with teammates a little bit more because I thought that was a major issue in Utah. I thought it was a major issue the first couple of years in Cleveland. The fact that his numbers have dropped a little bit shouldn't be an indication of his play getting worse. It's the same exact thing Boston did last year. You look at everybody in that rotation, took a step back for the sacrifice.
sacrifice. That's what Donovan Mitchell's doing this year. I absolutely love it. And I take them seriously as a title contender. And the other thing that I love is like people wanted to break up Mitchell and Garland and there was even some thought bill that Garland wanted out. Remember last off season. I don't think I don't think it was a thought. I think I don't know if he was 100% happy.
of course. And then same thing with Evan Mobley and Jared Allen. Can they play together? They keep them together. And I love continuity. I know you're big on this as well, like the longer team stay together. The easy, like that's why Philadelphia, like this year, I didn't believe it in any way, because it's three guys being thrown together that you weren't going to play it on. Like continuity means something. And now they're at the point where they know each other inside and out. So I take him as a legitimate threat. I have him number two behind Boston in the East.
Yeah, no, they're a threat. They definitely are a threat. They're the biggest team, one of the biggest teams in the league. And I think Jared Allen, if he can stay healthy, I think he's the key.
They're wings are a concern. And I guess how they deal with sizes, a little bit concerned of the guard position, which is why Boston matches up well against them with holiday and. Yeah, and Cara, I think off the bench for them, whether he's off the bench of starting, he's going to have to be consistent. Right. And so I think they got enough. Yeah, I do. I think they have enough to offset because they can bother Boston with their size.
Yeah. And then I think they just maybe have, you know, the same amount of experience as New York. So it's like almost a crapshoot with the two with them. So I think they do have a chance.
Right now in Fandour, they're plus 850. They have the third best odds for the title, the Sunken Surplus 210, OKC's plus 230. Don't make it Terry Rosier joke. No, I wasn't going to. I was going to. I'll make it Terry Rosier joke. Would you bet on Donovan Mitchell or Jalen Bronson? If you're Terry Rosier, would you put money on Jalen Bronson or Donovan Mitchell in a series? Because don't forget Bronson's beat him twice. I'll play them twice. Once and when Mitchell was in Utah, once he was in Cleveland.
So my fear, I think the nicks are really good and you can see them getting better and you know, they're going to get a bio guy and they'll have an eight man rotation. You know, they're all going to play too many minutes and somebody will probably get hurt. But I think the ceiling, I'm really impressed by them, especially offensively. I do wonder with the, with the amount of stuff they're putting on Brunson, how sustainable that is for nine months. That would be my biggest fear if I'm a Knicks fan. It's not a big guy. We just haven't seen teams built around small guards.
be able to survive for nine months. The only guy that really did it was Isaiah.
Well, don't you? I mean, they killed Becky Hammond for saying the same exact thing, so be careful, Bill. I think it's on Bronson, though. I think Bronson has to be honest with himself, because I think he plays beat up a lot. I don't think it's sustainable. He plays beat up a lot. And I don't think he needs to sit down at times. And I think it's just that mentality of, you know, you shouldn't have to worry about it. But I think, no, if I sit down, something might happen, you know? Right.
take my minutes kind of thought that's not happening with him. I just think he, you know, he's all wrapped up, man, to be a young player. He's just always got something on his body. Yeah. And they get great crowds. But that's why I like Cleveland a little bit more. I like the way they've handled the regular season or winning. But you look at their minutes and everybody's like 30 minutes and below like they're really
They're really kind of pushing toward where they're all right. They're got a lot. The next player got so they're talking to you guys. Yeah. Thirty six minutes and up for the top two. Do you believe in Zion at this point, Eddie? No. I believe in his talent. But I don't believe that he is capable of keeping himself.
in shape. And I think that's part of the issue. Like, I've seen a lot of basketball players in my life playing the NBA and always wondered, was that guy better off being a football player or a basketball player? And I still continue to say it. When I first saw Zion in high school and I saw him on the basketball court, I said, that's a football player that's very good at basketball. Hmm.
And I think his mentality is that of a football player, like alignment or something. We don't have to do a ton of stuff. And for me, I don't basketball seems to not have been his ticket. We all played sports. I played baseball. I played football a little bit. And I was pretty good at baseball.
But I reached a point where I said, OK, Eddie, your six foot six is not too many six foot six third basement. Yeah, my arm is hurting from pitching. Yeah, I need to play basketball, right? And I don't know if Zion ever reached that point of having to make the decision. I think automatically he played basketball. And to me, man, I just don't think mentally he's in tune with what it takes to stay on the floor.
as a basketball player. But what's funny about you laying that out, though, is that he came into the league as one of the best assets for the number one pick that we probably had this century. We interviewed David Griffin and Alvin Gentry. The night they got that pick, like we were there at the draft lottery, those guys were as happy as could be. And it might end up like it already cost Alvin Gentry his job. And if I cost David Griffin his job, so they were ecstatic about it at the time, but now they might lose their job as a result to him. A gentry already did.
The one thing I've learned a couple of things, I guess, fall in sports and trying to come up with things to say and studying stuff. If the guy doesn't want it, there's not a lot else you can do. And I think you could say that if you're a parent and you have a kid that's good at a certain sport, you can't force the kid to be awesome at the sport. At some point, they're going to have to give a shit.
And he says all the right things sometimes, but it just just doesn't seem like he gets it. And now he's headed toward his mid 20s. Yeah. And at some point, it's either going to happen or it's not up here. And it just doesn't seem like it's there. And I'll tell this story real quick. And I've said it on our show. Once had this lady traveled all the way from Wyoming with her kid. And that's when I had a training academy. Yeah. The kid she shows up kid is six foot six. I mean, ripped 14.
14 years old. And she says he's going to be a great basketball player. He's going to grow his dad was 16 and he's going to grow. So I worked the kid out. He takes 25 jumpers in close 10 feet around the rim, May 1. OK, I moved him out a little bit, five airballs. And so I sit him down on the side. And I said, you know, what do you like to do?
And he started talking about all the things he likes to do. And he started talking about his instruments. And he likes to play in the band and all of that. And not one time that he mentioned basketball. I looked at the mother. I will know I said, Miss, I'm going to give you your money back. And I charge it like a grand. So I'm going to give you your money back. And I am telling you, if you don't want to lose your kid, you need to let him be in the band.
I am telling you, he does not want to play basketball. She started crying. I mean, literally I knew that I had to grab this lady. She was like distraught.
And I told her. And then I went over that took over to him and I said, son, what do you like to do? And so to me, that's like, it reminds me of Zion. Like, he was made to play basketball. They want him to play basketball. And I just wonder at times.
Does he really like want to play at a high look? And then I've said that about numerous guys. It's not just Zion. Oh, yeah. Well, that contrasts that to your Durant story. Yeah. Durant probably ever since he could hit the 10 foot rim with the ball is probably been shooting jumpers for three, four, five hours a day. Yeah. So yeah, that's the thing. And I actually think Tatum has this.
I think Tatum and Brown has it too. And maybe it's a good thing that they, you know, they're a little competitive in a good way with each other. But I think they come in every year. Like this year, Jalen got too big, but at least
There was intent behind it, right? He's like, I need to, I need to survive than I must. Tatum always adds stuff year after year. I know. I want Jalen to lose a little. That was my issue with like, honestly, with Jamal Murray. It's like, did he get paid? Did he win the championship and then take his foot off the gas? Like to the credit, to the credit that J Brown and Jason Tatum, like,
Those guys have busted their rear ends. Like Jalen Brown, like again, you said he got maybe too big, but the intention was good. So Jalen Brown wins a championship. He gets paid like the year before Jalen Brown got paid. He didn't say I get paid and you know, I'm just fine now. Like Jalen Brown got the biggest contract in NBA history and then came back and had the best season of his career, won a fine as MVP. Like that's credit to guys that do that because I don't think everybody can. You can argue that's what maybe forced Jamal to not be in shape.
because he had not gotten paid yet. So this is a bigger issue with the league than I think people realize guys that have an extension coming and they're afraid to get hurt. So they stop working out all during the summer. There's a list of. Yeah. I think it just happened to Trey Murphy. I think he started out the season shitty and now he looks like Trey Murphy again. Yeah. And I don't think Devin would ever admit it, but the way that he changed his game this summer.
was a positive for the Olympic team. But I think that mentality kind of cut down that killer instinct that he had for a short period of time. And thinking that, OK, I'm going to try this on the Suns, too. I'm going to like, I won't take a shot in the first five minutes. And I'll turn it on when I can. And I think it kind of got him in that situation. And lately, he's gotten back to Devin, being ultra aggressive. A lot of times they tell you, like Larry Brown should always say,
You F with the game. It's no F with you. So and that's I agree with Eddie's point. I think that's a really good point that he carried that mindset that he had all summer into the season and infected his game. Can somebody tell me somebody that actually benefited from the Olympics this year? Because I think everybody here comes the anti-patriot. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know America, but America. I played you play for your country.
I do think if I could do, if I was the czar of our Olympic basketball program, I would go 25 and under for the team.
So, yeah, so what I would, I just wouldn't. And we'll get our butt kicked every year. I don't know if we would. You almost got your butt kicked this year with the, uh, you know, the legends. Exactly. And you're in trouble. I want like people like I'm in Thompson in the honor of 2020 Olympic team. Like let's give them the experience, put them on that stage and maybe have like one or two people over 25 as like the
I would love to see that. Bill, I would be so much more excited. Bill, I would love to see it. I like hearing for the underdog. Yeah. Exactly what it's going to be.
Yeah, why you even acknowledge that? Just get a dual passport. Guys, thank you for all the time. This is great. Now, I feel better when I pop on your show. I don't know where I'm driving around. I just suggest. You never ask. It wasn't like we turned you down. We did last week and he asked us last week. You said no, but there was reason. I know.
No, this was fun. I had a great time. Uh, can listen to you guys every, what is it? Four to seven for it. Yeah. Four to seven, uh, Eastern time, Monday through Friday. Uh, and this, I think this is the longest we ever talked to each other for free. Typically we just talked to each other. No, no, no way. I talked to them for free. Trust me, Bill. So you're good. You're good. I'll do it, Bill. Trust me on that. All right. Save travels. Great to see you guys. Thanks for coming up. Yeah. Farewell. All right. Okay. Take care.
All right. That's it for the pod. Thanks to JT and Eddie. Thanks to Kyle and Sarudian Gajal. As always, don't forget you can watch the clips and videos from this podcast on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. You can also watch before sunrise.
On the Ring of Movies YouTube channel, the latest re-watchables we did, I will see you on Sunday. We're not going live because there's no football game, but Cousin Sal and I are gonna have a little Super Bowl props, Strava Ganza. So that's coming on Sunday. And they will do some basketball too. We will see. Enjoy the weekend. I wanna see them on a way so I never wanna say.
on the wayside, on the ruleside.
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