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But let's head into our Africa segment this evening. The 2024 G20 summit is currently underway in Brazil, with world leaders gathering to discuss critical issues ranging from sustainable development to global governance reform. In South Africa, gears up to assume the G20 presidency, just a couple of weeks,
We reflect on what this position could mean not only for South Africa but for the global south as a whole. Now with key priorities such as energy transitions, poverty reduction and advancing the voices of developing nations, South Africa's leadership at the G20 could be a pivotal moment in reshaping global economic and political dynamics. Now for this conversation we joined by Musam Dungi
But it's got analyst and a PhD candidate based at the University of Dundee in the UK. Musa, a very good evening and welcome to Power Business. Good evening to you and to the listeners. Thank you so much for having me. Now Musa, I guess, you know, as South Africa prepares them to take the G20 presidency, how do you think the focus then on the global South will evolve?
Well, you know, this is a very interesting time in which South Africa will take over the presidency of 2025, because it really follows a pattern in which the G20 has been led by the Global South, primarily when you look at the fact that India hosted in 2022, sorry, in 2023, they say it is Brazil and next year in South Africa, representing the IPSA, you will recall during the decade days
There was this IPSA forum, which was this culmination of the leading powers in the Global South. And so in many ways, South Africa leading this process is a continuation of the agenda, as has been said in Brazil, focusing particularly on issues around inequality, climate change, issues around that affecting the Global South, such as debt crises that many countries of the Global South face.
And so South Africa, which has always envisioned its role, post-94 as being a voice of the global south and particularly a voice of, for the African continent and has seen its seat in organizations and forums such as the G20 as being critical in terms of it being a voice that represents not only the aspirations of the global south,
but really zooms into the issues that can at times be overlooked by countries of the global north. And also, you know, one of the key areas for South Africa's presidency is the reform of global governance institutions. What specific reforms do you think South Africa might advocate for? And how could these changes impact then the international order? Well, you know, one of the things that President Suramaposa has been at pains to really communicate, particularly
when we think about, you know, during the COVID period and the economic crisis that ensued not only because of it, but post that, that he has really raised the issue of the reform, particularly of organizations such as the World Trade Organization, which he has said, you know, has not really moved in a place whereby smaller countries
are able to really access it and are able to then deal with some of the trade issues and rules, especially when you think of how larger and more advanced economies have used some of these trade rules in order to promote unfair trade practices that discriminate against smaller countries. And so South Africa is almost this sort of a semi-peripheral state.
is in a position that it is advanced enough, that it carries weight, but as well faces some of the same challenges as these smaller countries. And so it will see its role in really advocating for such reforms, such as the World Trade Organization. But of course, you think of the IMF, where there's been a huge discussion around
it reflecting the change in economic power that has moved away from the G7 developed countries towards the emerging powers of the BRICS, where South Africa is a member as well. And so in many ways, we will see South Africa raise these issues, but on top of that, the issue of climate change will definitely come in particularly when we speak of issues of a just energy transition.
And, you know, speaking of that, you know, most of the G20 is often seen as a forum for the world's largest economies, as you mentioned, but South Africa is leading a group of developing nations. How can South Africa navigate then the interests of both the global North and South? And what challenges do you foresee in ensuring a balanced and inclusive approach to global issues? Well, this is perhaps the tricky part, right, to foreign policies of Africa is this middle power.
you know, and for all intents and purposes, a middle power, not at the same status as an India or a Brazil, has to exercise strategic ambiguity, which is often, you know, the calling card that middle powers draw towards, that neither side must assume that you are an ally, which ensures that the other side does not see you as a threat.
And that is key, which India has been a good example of in its foreign policy when you think about how it has navigated the Israel Hamas situation or the Russia Ukraine debacle. South Africa has not had that much success in that area. And that is perhaps particularly given the political machinations within the country when you think of ANC politics, for example.
And so what this moment represents, even that we're now under new dispensation of the government of national unity, the elevation of the democratic alliance and those on the right in terms of the governance space, allows South African opportunity where we check and change things, reset things in terms of its relationship with the global north, especially when you think of the United States,
which we all know Donald Trump is expected to come back into power. That has implications for South Africa's foreign policy and its own strategic interests, but also how best South Africa will then be able to be an advocate for the African continent and the global south. So that relationship between South Africa and, you know, United States will be very important, also given the fact that it is the United States
that then takes over the presidency of the G20. So it's an interesting moment in which South Africa needs to reflect about how it positions its foreign policy. And I think that the fact that you have a democratic alliance in there, you know, allows South Africa to ask critical questions about its relationship, particularly with the global North.
And it's interesting, you know, Musa that you mentioned or that you use India as an example of how South Africa should sort of navigate the sort of waters ahead. It's because in a previous conference I had attended, you know, Musa had actually mentioned that South Africa should be trying to make friends with everyone and not trying to isolate anyone at this particular juncture and take a page out of India's book and sort of move in the direction that they've been moving in. So I found it interesting, you know, that you've
also sort of pointed out a similar, yeah, the exact same sort of sentiment. But most are in a recent address. Presidents are also stressing their new importance of reforming the global financial architecture to better serve the needs of the most vulnerable countries. Now, from a political perspective, how might South Africa leverage then its G20 presidency to advocate for more inclusive global financial systems?
Well, look, I mean, the beauty about the G20 and how it works is that the meetings are ongoing throughout the year. And, you know, they take the form of sector specific or issue specific summit.
And it is a moment where South Africa can learn from both India as well as Brazil in that both these countries during their presidency have added on top of the engagements, particular issues that allow them to bring global leaders to coalesce around in terms of getting policy directives
and basically implementation to follow. And so South Africa needs to be more clear about what are those two particular issues that it believes can move the needle as it pertains to the issue of global financing, particularly on issues of infrastructure development. South Africa is now part of this new free trade arrangement on the continent. This is a moment in which it must leverage
its leadership in the G20 to draw the eyes of the world towards this free trade agreement and what it can do in terms of lifting in terms of lifting economic growth, but also the standards of living. And that's going to be very important. That's the kind of discussion and synergy that South Africa needs to make, but also in terms of its own national goals. Remember, you know, though it's not mentioned a lot these days, the national development plan is still a thing.
And it coincides with the sustainable development goal as well. And so that is really an opportunity for Pretoria to really bridge these two things together, but particularly on the issue of assessment, the issue of matrixes. How do we assess the progress we have made?
And I think it's a good thing here that I must mention that the fact that you have a continuation of topics of an agenda from Brazil to South Africa, because often the challenge of the G20, even with bricks, even with the G7, is depending on who is the leader or the president at the time, it will shift the objectives.
And then you don't see a proper follow through in terms of the objectives that were set in the previous summit. So that is one area that I think South Africa can really do well to bring global leaders towards. And of course, the G20 is an opportunity for bilateral meetings, which then become a space where South Africa can deal with certain leaders on a one-to-one basis and be able to get some sort of agreement
in terms of investment infrastructure development and issues pertaining to the African continent. And that is crucial to get sort of an agreement on those issues. But Mosa, how then can South Africa use its G20 presidency to strengthen public policy frameworks across Africa, especially in areas like education, health and governance, just to meet the continent's development goals?
Well, you know, one of the meetings that have been set up by the G20 focuses on bringing together particularly think tanks from these countries. And I think it's important that we see even civil organizations think tanks
you know, academic institutions coming in that will help support, you know, you know, governments in terms of the framing and the development of public policy. Because many a times the research that is done by academics is rooted in community. And I think that it's important that I emphasize this point that one of the things that we are crucially failing on on the African continent is getting our research and development funding
investment up there. And until we see movement in R&D, we will not see the kind of policy that they inform the necessary multiplier effect that drives economic growth, that deals with unemployment, that brings poverty down.
And that I might add is perhaps the boogeyman, even in the South African story, since 1994. Why is it that we haven't been able to get an employment down? Why is it that poverty remains really a structural pandemic in our country? And in many ways, if South Africa can look within, it will help it navigate how it shapes that gender of the G20 next year.
Not the boogeyman, but critical issues that you highlight there. On that note, we're going to leave it there. Thank you so much for your time this evening. My pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. Fantastic. That was Musam Dungay. Political analyst and PhD candidate taking us through our Africa segment as South Africa prepares to assume the G20 presidency.
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