Advice Line with Lara Merriken of LÄRABAR (October 2024)

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to how I built this early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Consider this as a daily news podcast and lately, the news is about a big question. How much can one guy change? What will change look like for energy? School, take the Department of Education, close it. Healthcare, better and less expensive. Follow coverage of a changing country on Consider This, the afternoon news podcast from NPR.

Hey, everyone, it's Guy here. So our team is just getting back from our holiday break. So this week, we've got a great episode from the archives, our advice line conversation with Lara Meriken of Lara Bar. We'll be back with fresh advice line episodes starting next week, and I'll be joined by some pretty incredible guests, like Jojebia, co-founder of Airbnb and Jack Conti, who co-founded Patreon. So stay tuned.

And thank you to all of you who've called in so far. I cannot wait to talk through more of your business challenges in the new year. And I'm looking forward to hearing your ideas. So enjoy the show. Hello and welcome to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Ros. This is the place where we help try to solve your business challenges. Each week, I'm joined by a legendary founder, a former guest on the show who will help me try to help you.

And if you're building something and you need advice, give us a call and you just might be the next guest on the show. Our number is 1-800-433-1298. Send us a one minute message that tells us about your business and the issues or questions that you'd like help with.

You can also send us a voice memo at hibt at id.wondry.com and make sure to tell us how to reach you. And also, don't forget to sign up for my newsletter. It's full of insights and ideas from the world's greatest entrepreneurs. You can sign up for free at gyraz.com. And we'll put all this info in the podcast description. All right, let's get to it.

Joining me this week is Lara American, the founder of Lara Bar. Lara, welcome back to the show. Thanks for having me, Guy. It's wonderful to be back. It's so great. I don't think I've seen you since we took a run in Denver like a couple of years ago before the pandemic. That's hard to believe that it's been that long for years. I know. It's been a long time. Because it's a period where I was seeing you all the time. You're coming to our summits and stuff. Anyway, it's great to have you back on the show. You were first on the show way back in 2018.

Back then you, of course, told the story of how you created this incredible brand, Lara Bar. Of course, if anyone listening hasn't heard that episode, just go back in our podcast feed and listen to it. It is such a great episode. We'll put a link in the podcast description as well. Basically, back in 2000, you were in your early 30s, recently divorced, unemployed, not at a great place in life, as you described it.

You started experimenting with like your own energy bar for for hikes like basically taking unsweetened fruit and nuts and just grinding them up in your Cuisinart and shaping them into bars.

I did. And I mean, I did not plan on starting a business. I was a passionate natural food person, always looking for great alternatives. And I found myself on a hike one day eating a trail mix. And this light bulb went off for me. And I just knew it intuitively that I needed to follow my idea. And within just a couple of years, you were selling millions of these lot of bars. And eventually, of course, you sold the brand.

to General Mills, and unlike a lot of founders who's kind of sell their companies, and then take off, you stayed on to help the team at General Mills for quite a while to continue to grow the brand. Before we bring our colors, I want to ask you about your experience, kind of dig a little deeper. I remember you talked about one of the first things you did when you were starting the brand was you got a job at Whole Foods. You basically just got a job as a cashier and stock clerk.

Um, for the paycheck in part, but also to learn about the natural food business to get like a ground view of, of how they operated, which I thought was so, so smart. Um, and you know, a lot of entrepreneurs have side hustles. I mean, what, what kind of advice do you have for people who are sort of in that phase where they're, they're starting a business and they, they're not sure whether they should be doing another job or to leave that job.

you know, when to leave that job, if to leave that job. You know, there isn't one right way to do this. For me, I realized that I knew very little about the actual business. I knew that I was kind of my own core consumer. But I also, I guess the way I would liken it is, I wanted to put my fantasy into a reality check. And so by getting into the business at Whole Foods, I looked at it as a paid internship.

and a way to get a leg in and learn directly without wasting time asking other people's opinions. I immerse myself in that environment. So I would say to people, learn as much as you can, put yourself in situations and really open yourself up to, you don't know anything because you really don't know anything until you get into it.

Yeah. Well, Laura, I'm super, super excited that you're on to help me. Hopefully we can give some good advice here. Let's, let's go ahead and take our first caller and let's, let's have our caller introduce themselves, tell us your name, where you're calling from, and just a little bit about your business.

Hello, I am Alison Rep. I am one of three co-founders of a body care company called Joy Breeders in Denver, Colorado. And we are on a mission to keep people moisturized without any toxins while inspiring them to rewild themselves.

Amazing. Okay, you're in Denver, so not too far from where Lara started. Lara bars. Tell me about, so it's called Joy Breeders. Joy Breeders. And it is a skincare brand. Tell me a little bit about how it works. What makes it unique or different?

Yeah, well, you know, I made it because my boyfriend has a rare skin condition. And I was really tired of being in the stores and checking ingredients of these clean brands and seeing that there were still toxins. And so what's different is that this truly is only five or seven, depending on the scent, pure ingredients. And so when did you start making? When did you start selling it?

I started making it about three and a half years ago. And then I gave it out to people for Christmas one year. And everybody was like, what is this? I have to buy this. And I never thought I'd be starting a body gear company, but we launched it after listening to everybody in June of 2023. So just a little over a year ago. And where do you guys, and how many products do you have? How many different, excuse do you have?

Yeah, right now we have three different ones. We have two different versions of moist, which is our body moisturizer. And then we have one called pouty mouth, which is a lip balm. Got it. And where do you guys mainly sell your products?

Right now we are in boutiques. We just got into a couple of grocery stores in Colorado. We're in a couple stores in Hawaii. We are in some boutique motels and direct to consumer as well. Nice. Okay. And what's your question for us today?

My question is, how can we scale a niche product like ours while keeping the humor and the authenticity that define our brand as we move into these larger markets? All right, we'll get to your question in a moment. Lara, I want to bring you in. First of all, do you have any questions for Allison?

Well, first of all, I had a very similar issue. I had this exact same question when I started out. So my question to you is, I've looked up your brand online and it looks really, really fun. It has a nice vibe and so far as you're selling to your consumers in these stores and online, what kind of feedback are people giving you about your product? What do they like about it? What is it doing for them?

Yeah, so we get so much feedback that was so unexpected. I'm a licensed psychotherapist and never thought I'd be helping people in this way, but it's such an honor. But people say, you know, I've had dry cracked skin for my whole life and nothing's ever worked. I've tried 50 products and this is the first thing that has worked for me. They love the clean ingredients. They love that it sinks into your skin and even though it's oil based and shea butter based, it doesn't stay oily, but the moisture locks in.

So that's the biggest. I could go on and on, but I'll zip my lips now. Well, I hear you saying that you want to market it authentically and have that humor and authenticity. What is it that people love about that aspect of it as well?

Yeah, so one of my co-founders is my boyfriend who I made it for, and the other one is my best friend, and we are the joy breeders. And we were dubbed that name because people would see us posting things online on our social media, and they would come to us and say, you being your authentic selves allows me to be my authentic self. And there's just no higher honor than hearing that. And so that is our bigger mission, and that's something that we wanna do just through

Being the face of our company, right? Showing modeling, being your authentic self. Well, that's a great way to lead what you're about, being your authentic self. I just, I heard like taglines in what you just said, that authenticity is kind of a lead, like fun, sexy and authentic, right? Yeah, we just like to play our way through lives. Like we're always doing wild, crazy, funny things, you know, playful is one of our biggest values.

Alison, one of the things that, I mean, the question you ask is like, how can we maintain our authenticity while we're scaling? And I guess what I would just kind of push back on a question is to ask you whether that really is a problem. I mean, I'm not sure this is a, it sounds to me more like a problem looking for a solution or a solution for a problem.

You know, I don't, I would say don't create a problem where one doesn't exist, right? Like to me, I think you want to focus on scale, focus or focus on sustainability, one or the other or both, if you can. But I mean, the, the, the, the authenticity side, first of all, it's a word that I, I have trouble with, to be honest, because I think that it's, it's, it's

really overused. It's a buzzword for sure. It's massively overused. And I think that the more it's used, the less actually authentic something or someone is. And you often see this on social media where people say, be your most authentic self. And I think to myself, you're standing in front of a camera and you are acting. And so how are you actually authentic? So I guess to me, authenticity is when you don't actually need to or have to

really worry about that word. I mean, you've got a product, you've got a story, you love it, your friends love it. So that's authentic. Now the question is, to me, how do you focus on growing the product? How do you focus on getting it out there? So tell me a little bit about what you're doing. Are you working with social media influencers? Are you demoing the product? Tell me a little bit about how you're getting the word out.

Yeah, we are demoing the product constantly, especially at these new grocery stores that we've just been in. And we are talking with a lot of influencers as well. We just went to the Neutopia Now event. And Neutopia Now is used to be Expo East, so it's a CPG Expo. And we got a lot of

unexpected attention there. We had people from big stores coming to us. We've just been kind of after that expo just preparing for what those meetings are going to look like. And it sounds like we'll be in more and more stores.

I have a follow up question is to guys point in terms of as you're going to scale, how have you guys looked at how you see yourself fitting into the market? Do you see yourself in grocery stores and boutique stores? And where does your product fit into the category? I guess is what I'm asking.

Yeah, it's a good question and we're kind of figuring some of that out by trial and error, but some of it we also know. We are a more luxury product. So we're not going to be in just regular grocery stores. Probably we're in more of the niche grocery stores like Lucky's and the more natural focused grocery stores.

Yeah, I think looking at where do you fit in as you're growing? As as Guy said, you know, you're looking at scaling, but where are you going to scale? What does that look like? What is the consumer? I mean, I'm thinking, do you belong in department stores, right? Like higher end ones, like Neiman Marcus or Nordstrom, you know, because body cares a lot of places and spas and all kinds of stuff.

Yes, yes to all those. See, you just answered the question for me. I still, I've, I started falling into this backwards and I still am. Like you were saying, you're just always figuring things out. So yes, definitely that is a dream. And also to be in hotels, we're working with some hotels, not being just given in the rooms, but being in their mini bars. Cause people really go after that stuff when they're traveling, especially to dry climates. Yeah.

Guy, do you mind if I circle back to one thing that you were saying about the authenticity piece? I think the fear is not that we're being authentic or not, but that it's not very often that you see a brand where the founders are the face of the company, their customer facing, and it's a big part of it. And so as we expand, I'm just not wanting to

lose that because our bigger mission really is to inspire people to, as I said, rewild themselves as we were before we even became joint readers officially. If that makes sense.

So the question, I guess, is the question, how should we remain the face of the brand? Yeah, I don't know how it works, right? When you start getting into these bigger stores, I don't know what they expect of you. I don't know if I'm gonna need to stay on my ground. When we start to talk about maybe selling, Laura, you said that you stayed on for a while,

I just don't want to lose the bigger mission of the company as we move into that.

I mean, you've only been around for about a year now, right? I think so. I mean, you've got a ways to go before. I just think before you have to worry about that. I think that you've got a lot of work ahead of you. I think it sounds like it's a great product and you've got interest in the product and there are people who like the product. And so I mean, I think this is a conversation or a concern that you might want to really have in like two or three years as you start to see growth and scale.

That's just my view. Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. I don't disagree with you, Guy. And also, Alison, Denver was my incubator place. And it's a great way to test things out. See what works. Does it work being in the grocery stores? Are you better off in a different spot? And what we did as a company is we used Denver as a testing ground. And what worked, we would do other places as we expanded the brand. Got it.

I also think that if you look at, and by the way, there are lots of brands that we've had on the show where the founders are the face of the brand, but then you look at a lot of products that are deeply tied to the founder like Spanx and Sarah Blakely or Laura Barr, which is literally the name of the person that is on this call with me.

And at the end of the day, it's the product. I mean, very few people bought Spanx because they love Sarah Blakely. She's lovable and terrific, but that's not why people bought the product. They bought it because it was really effective. So at the end of the day, it doesn't matter whether Alison is interesting or funny or, you know, that's great. You don't, you don't not want to be those things, but it's, do you make a good product that people like?

Yeah, yeah, actually a lot of things just clicked. So thank you for that. I think I've been really messaged forward coming from my psychotherapist background. And what I hear you saying is if the product is good, then everything else that I've been talking about with who we are and what we're trying to inspire just comes along alongside that or a little bit behind it.

I think so. And I think it's great that you went to the trade show and there's some interest in carrying the product. I mean, I also think that small boutiques are really effective. I mean, that's how Sunbum really began its growth, you know, by going to small boutiques and places like Hawaii. I think you mentioned you're in Hawaii, right? So Hawaii tends to be a really great place to put these things in because you've got a lot of tourists. They're walking through shops and looking at products that got time and they picked things up.

Laura, any final words of wisdom for Allison? I would just use this time to just pay attention to everything going on, make sure that the product is stable and it's packaging and all of that before you get distributed out widely, right? In my world with food, it was, what's the shelf life? But you have the same thing in body care.

And you want to make sure that you're dotting your eyes and crossing your T's with that stuff so that you know that when you go to a bigger retail that wants you, you're like, you're solid on that. You know what works, what doesn't. And you're still going to learn on the fly. But this is a great time to really do that research and development. Yeah. Thoroughly. Yeah. Thank you. Indeed. Allison Rep, the brand's called Joy Breeders. Good luck. Thanks for calling it. Thanks for calling it. All right.

By the way, speaking of skincare routines, I would say in the last two years, I have started to do something I never did in my life. I use a mineral sunblock on my face every day. A friend of mine as a dermatologist is like, if you're not using that every day, you're basically exposing yourself to skin damage.

And you're on the West Coast now, right? And so you have to pay attention to that stuff. I'm out and walking every single day. I'm in the Bay Area. We're lucky. We get to do that year round. So I'm all about it. As I approach the age of 50, I'm all about it. Wow. That's an exciting milestone for you. Yeah, it's exciting.

All right, after the break, another caller with another business challenge. I'm Guy Raz, and we're answering your business questions right here on the advice line on how I built this lab.

Hello, ladies and germs, boys and girls, the Grinch is back again to ruin your Christmas season with Tiz the Grinch Holiday Podcast. After last year, he's learned a thing or two about hosting, and he's ready to rant against Christmas cheer and roast his celebrity guests like chestnuts on an open fire. You can listen with the whole family as guest stars like John Hamm, Brittany Broski, and Danny DeVito try to persuade the mean old Grinch that there's a lot to love about the insufferable holiday season. But that's not all.

Somebody stole all the children of Hooville's letters to Santa, and everybody thinks the Grinch is responsible. It's a real Hooville who'd done it. Can Cindy Lou and Max help clear the Grinch's name? Grab your hot cocoa and cozy slippers to find out. Follow Tiz the Grinch Holiday Podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Unlock weekly Christmas mystery bonus content and listen to every episode ad free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts.

They say Hollywood is where dreams are made, a seductive city where many flock to get rich, be adored, and capture America's heart. But when the spotlight turns off, fame, fortune, and lives can disappear in an instant. When TV producer Roy Raiden was found dead in a canyon near LA in 1983,

There were many questions surrounding his death. The last person seen with him was Laney Jacobs, a seductive cocaine dealer who desperately wanted to be part of the Hollywood elite. Together, they were trying to break into the movie industry. But things took a dark turn when a million dollars worth of cocaine and cash went missing. From Wonder E comes a new season of the hit show Hollywood and Crime, The Cotton Club Murder.

Follow Hollywood and Crime, the Cotton Club Murder on the Wondery app, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of the Cotton Club Murder early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus.

Three, two, one, liftoff with an entirely new way to play. Wondery kids and the number one kids podcast, Wow in the World, are making stem toys fun like never before. Tinker with slime bubbling volcanoes, build rockets that bark and uncover dynamite dinosaurs.

For the first time ever, be wowed with exclusive, engaging companion audio that comes with each stem toy. And as you play, Guy Raz and I, co-host of WOW in the world, bring you and your family bunker balls facts about the natural world, like how crystals and rainbows are related.

And each STEM toy includes a bonus science tool and three months of Wondery Plus free so the whole family can listen to their favorite podcasts like Wow in the World Early and Add Free. Shop Wow in the World Toy Collection today at amazon.com slash Wondery Kids. That's amazon.com slash W-O-N-D-E-R-Y Kids.

Welcome back to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz. My guest today is Laura Meriken. She's the founder of the Energy Bar brand, Laura Bar. So, Laura, let's get right into it and take another call. Can't wait to meet the next caller. Hello, welcome to the advice line you are on with me and Laura Meriken. Welcome. Please tell us your name, where you're calling for a man a little bit about your business.

Hi, my name is Mariano Cuesta. I'm based out of Miami, Florida. I'm the founder of Max Brands, which is the owner of Max Caffeangum and Max Caffeang Mintz.

We provide an alternative to coffee and energy drinks and also provide the caffeine cake and fix that you would like. All right. So, Mariano, a lot of questions for you. First of all, how did you get into this business? I don't think you were the inventor of caffeine. I'm sure that versions of this have been around for a while, but how did you get into making this product?

So it was an afternoon where kind of the light bulb went off. I was working late and it was about four or five in the afternoon and I'm a huge coffee drink. I used to work in finance in New York and coffee was life pretty much. And this day in particular, I didn't want more coffee, but I was a little bit sleepy and I wanted more caffeine.

And that's kind of where I started going down the rabbit hole of like, okay, what alternatives are there? And after a lot of research, you're right that there were there was already chewing them. I'm not the inventor of chewing on a caffeine, but I did realize what was out there wasn't either very good was very expensive or not effective. So.

I thought, hey, I think we can do something here. I imagine that there are plenty of people who probably want this, like people have to work later. By the way, does it have the same effect? Let's be honest, because when you drink a lot of coffee, you have to go pee or something else. Does this have the same effect?

I'm so glad you asked that question. When I started this company, my focus was on people in finance and people that work late. When I started going and showing the product off to people, I started to realize this is much bigger. You've got the Uber drivers, the truck drivers who appreciated this because they didn't have to go to the bathroom after drinking coffee.

Educators, athletes, athletes, I hadn't even thought of athletes. And athletes end up being like a huge segment in this world because they don't want to drink a lot of coffee or an energy drink and then go run a few miles. They don't want that slush in their stomach. So the world of what this product, who it's applicable to and who find a lot of benefit to was a lot bigger than I originally thought.

And that was very eye-opening for me. Got it. And from what I gathered, this was at one time available in some stores, or I think even in Walmart, but it's not anymore. Now you're mainly selling direct-to-consumer.

Yeah, absolutely right. We sell direct to the consumer. We are in about 50 smaller stores. We had a test to run with Walmart. All over the country or just in Florida? It was all over the country. Originally, it was going to be 100 stores and ended up being 450.

So it was quite a ride, learned a lot. We kind of got some guidance from the buyer in terms of how to package this for the candy aisle, which ended up hurting us just logistically. Put you in the candy aisle. Yes, correct. And is that where you want it to be? Did you want this product to be alongside just regular chewing gum and candy? Originally, we did. We did. It was either that or the sports section.

It ended up being a pretty big issue, and we're back online. I am still fighting to get into stores. I mean, awesome that you had that opportunity, and you learned a lot from that. But basically, people were confused. Like, what is this as a supplement? But it was in the candy section, a lot of confusion. Before I get to Laura, what's the question you have for us?

Right, so it's actually based on what I just talked about, just a little bit of background. Since we left Walmart, we tripled our sales online, more than triple our sales online. We continue to grow the brand. The category itself is growing. There's data behind this. And yet we're having trouble getting our foot in the door with some of these major buyers. I understand they're inundated, but my question would be that. How do you get your foot in these doors?

Yeah, Laura American, a lot to unpack here. This is a cool, cool idea. What are your thoughts on this?

Well, first of all, I think it's a very innovative product. And I like that you've taken gum and caffeine because it's a very easy to use product for people, right? Gums everywhere, caffeine's everywhere in the form of coffee, mainly, and energy drinks. And my question to you is, where are people going to buy this? I was thinking, as you were talking,

Where would I go to buy this? But what are you finding out about the marketplace right now? It's a great question. Some of the stores that we're in have put us actually next to energy drinks as well. It sells well in those places. We haven't had many people put in the supplement section. And then we have had people put it in the candy section. So in terms of just trying to figure out where it sells more. And obviously that's a function also of

Is there enough shell space to put a product like this? Because, you know, energy drinks in that section is very full. So we've had to find ways around it. We actually started selling them in like clips. You can hang the bags. You don't have to move anything. So Mariano, what is the competitive landscape like? Cause there have to be other caffeine gun brands out there. Absolutely. Yes. There's, there's a couple of other brands, big, big brands.

done a great job I will say that when I started looking into this stuff the problem I had was I didn't like it didn't feel like gum or it was so expensive and one of the things we really wanted to do with this gum is

We did put a lot of caffeine into each piece. We put 125 milligrams of caffeine per piece. Just more than what I'm seeing from the competitors, they have like 50 to 60 grams. Correct. And our goal was like, we want you when you chew this and that you feel it, like you are ready to go, ready to take on anything that's going on in the day. And that was our goal. So, you know, just for the listeners, 125 milligrams of caffeine is equivalent to about a cup and a quarter of coffee.

So we really wanted that to be a differentiator. Yeah, you're packing a punch, right? So that, to me, is a competitive advantage over what's going on in the marketplace and why somebody would want to bring you in to compete with somebody else.

correct. Also, another big thing we have going for us, we're cheaper. And that was done absolutely by design. When we saw what the pricing was out there, we were just like, why would anyone pay this much? Because at the end of the day, we're going to be compared to chewing them, right? So why would anyone pay so much more for chewing on my understanding as caffeine? There's definitely a value out there.

be paying 10, 15 times with normal chewing gum, I didn't think that was right. One of the things we really set out to do was provide a better product with more caffeine at a lower, more affordable price. One of the things that I think is interesting about the opportunity here is that

Everything that you've talked about, you've told us here in this conversation, is not reflected in the product when you see it on the shelves. Like what you want to start in the storytelling side of it is with the packaging and with your whole kind of theme on your website. It says, world's strongest caffeine gut, but what does that tell me? It doesn't tell me anything. I need to understand all the things you just told me in just a few words right from the get-go on the packaging on the website.

in your brand Bible that clearly, you know, you haven't put together and you should put together because it's going to really help you. I would agree. I had the same issue. So when I started Lara Bar, it was, you know, fruit and nuts and nuts have a lot of fat in them and people would freak out about the fat. So, so good. And I would have to figure out, yes. Well, it is that fat at the time.

No one was on that bandwagon guy. Nobody had educated us. And so I had to, as a company, lead the way. And I had to articulate it in a way that it was fun for people and interesting. And they felt like they knew something. So as as Guy was pointing out, like, if you want people to pick your product up, you've got to make it compelling. Why is gum and caffeine compelling?

Right? And then I'm going to go back to, you were talking about, they want to put you in the candy aisle. I had the exact same problem. I remember we were getting into a major retailer and at the time I wasn't clear about where I saw a Lara bar and they decided out of nowhere to put it near candy bars. That would have been the kiss of death for us in terms of going straight out of that store because we didn't belong with candy bars. We were a nutrition bar, a healthier version, kind of indulgent and delicious.

And i really push back and we didn't end up going into that retailer which was a good thing because you have to be in the right spot where people are actually going to find you. Absolutely absolutely critical point here i think which is sometimes even when the opportunity seems amazing you've got to stick to your.

your principles and your vision around this product. This is not candy. To me, this is something that you would discover at a GNC, or in the protein powders aisle at Whole Foods. Where I think you have an opportunity, you've got 125 grams of caffeine.

30 grams more than the cup coffee. And to me, it's like you could have a tagline on your bag that literally says, you know, rocket fuel for your workout. You know, I understand you're trying to reach people, Uber drivers and nighttime people and hospitals. But maybe you want to just start by focusing on one of those categories.

And the other ones may follow naturally. It's like you start with a tribe, Lara started with hikers.

Now, Laura Barr is consumed by Matt. It's a mass consumption product. What do you think, Laura? And you can disagree with me, Laura. You can tell me that I'm full of it. You're not full of it. You have great ideas, guys. You're a natural entrepreneur. I think it's very smart, like little test groups. You know, you can test the Uber drivers. You can test the athletes. You can do your own little focus groups and figure out who's using it and why they're using it. What is it doing for them? Right. Right.

lead with curiosity, people will tell you a lot. And I would also say that, like, people do know what caffeine is, but they don't know, right? They know they go to say Starbucks to get their coffee or the coffee shop, but what are you offering that's different than that? Like, how can you replace that? Like, for Larabar, it was portable food, right? You're eating real food still, but you're on the go and you still have that quality there.

Right, right. Yeah. Simple messages, simple value proposition, fuel your workout, whatever it says, but it's simple few words on there that tells me what it is because Max doesn't do it. It's not, caffeine gum is not enough. Okay. Perfect. I appreciate the advice guys. Thanks. Thanks for calling in Mariano. The product is called Max caffeine gum. Good luck, man. Thanks for calling in. Thank you. Appreciate it. Bye.

I mean, I think I'm going to try this. I'm definitely going to try this. I am too. I love tea. I love coffee, but I think there's a great market for this. It's just a matter of connecting with people, right? Yeah. All right. Let's take another quick break, but we'll be right back with another caller. Stay with us. I'm Guy Raz, and you're listening to the advice line right here on how I built this lab.

American Scandal is a podcast that brings to life some of the biggest controversies in US history. Presidential lies, environmental disasters, corporate fraud, you name it. In their latest series, NASA embarks on an ambitious program to reinvent space exploration with the Space Shuttle. By 1985, they announced plans to send teacher Krista McAuliffe into space aboard the Challenger, alongside six other astronauts.

But just moments after liftoff, tragedy strikes and the challenger explodes. In the aftermath, investigators uncover a series of preventable failures that led to the disaster. Follow American scandal on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. And if you want to experience all episodes, add free and be the first to binge the newest season, join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Start your free trial today.

Welcome back to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz, and today I'm taking calls with Lara American. Lara, what do you say? Let's bring on another caller. That sounds great. All right, let's bring in our next caller. Hello, welcome to the show. Hello, thank you for having me on the show. I'm so excited. I can tell. Tell us your name, where you're calling from, and a little bit about your business.

Okay, my name is Loretta Nakwacha. I am the founder of Loretta's British Ginger Tea. It is a New York-based company and I am currently in Costa Rica. And Loretta's British Ginger Tea is a blend of unique proprietary, functional, ginger-based beverages.

Okay, so let's kind of break this down. So this is ginger tea made with ginger root. Like it's strong and spicy, right? Like it clears your sinuses kind of ginger. It is so strong and spicy. I mean, I give the option on the bottle on the label that if it is too much, you can water it down with, you know, so that you don't get the potency, but you still get the health benefits. And you can have it hot because we Brits, we love to have our tea hot and we have several cups a day.

So I actually drink it hot. And then on the weekend, I drink it cold straight out of the fridge with a bit of tequila. So, Laura, how did you tell me about the idea behind the product? I mean, were you in food and beverage? What were you doing? How did you start this thing?

Darling, darling, I'm not even in any, like I don't come from business. The only business I came from was show business. I am an actor and singer, and I've done it pretty much my whole life. I went to the Royal Central School of Speech and Drama in London. The same school that Judy Dench went to. Anyway, so then, okay.

Fast forward 2009 I'm pregnant with my first child in New York and like many women I had all four dreadful Morning sickness now morning sickness is supposed to last for the morning for maybe the first trimester. I eat yes three months Yes now mine went on all day for about six months. Oh my gosh

Yeah, marvellous. So what I did was my doctor said that ginger is really helpful to kind of quell the nausea. So I would sip on ginger ale. I'm not really a soda person, but I would sip on this thing and it helped a little bit. Yeah. Fast forward five years. I'm pregnant now with my second child in 2014. I said, you know what? I know what to expect this time. I'm not bloody going to drink ginger ale. I'm going to find something else that's going to help.

My doctor recommended that I take anti-nausea medication. I said, no way. I'm making a human. I don't want medication. No. Yeah. She suggested ginger candy. I said, OK, let me give it a try. It was basically sugar. Yes. I thought, well, I don't need diabetes while I'm pregnant. So no.

So I, my husband, God bless itself, my husband was the one who said, listen, why don't I just go to the store, pick up some ginger root, you can slice it up and make your own. Yeah. And that was the first time I'd ever set my eyes on ginger root. So I sliced it up, boiled it up, it worked, it was amazing and I loved the way that it tasted. So I would drink it every single day, it helped with the nausea and I've been drinking it every single day since 2014 when I made this.

I love this. And by the way, ginger also anti-inflammatory. It's just an amazing root. There's so many things you can do with it. Okay, so this clearly was helping you. And then at what point did you say, I'm going to turn this into a business. I'm going to bottle this up and try and sell this.

Well, I've got my sister Helen to thank for that because basically I would make batches of tea when any of my friends would get sick. I knew that Ginger was helpful for, you know, calls and flutes, so I'd make them a batch, deliver it to their house for free. So my sister saw me making these little mini bottles of very cute little things, showing you how to make a hot toddy, so a little bit of a brand-ish and my ginger tea. Yummy. So she was like, she was like, Laurie, why'd you keep giving us a wipe? Why aren't you selling this?

OK, I don't know anything about business. Why would I start? Because I don't know. Research it. OK, I did it. September 2021, I made my first sale in the farmer's market in my little town, Babylon, Long Island, New York. And so I then managed to basically take bottles and go to various stores, all the sort of health food stores. And it had to be refrigerated. The shelf life was so short, like six weeks. So I had to realize, OK, I have to do something to extend the shelf life if it's possible.

and also get it out of the fridges. So I took everything off the shelves literally a few months ago while I started working on fundraising to try and figure out a way to have it formulated. So you haven't been able to figure this out yet. You're still at this point where you're trying to figure out how to make it shelf stable or how to make it last longer, right?

Yeah, and also get out of plastic bottles. It doesn't align with what I'm trying to give people this helpful, helpful drink. I love this. I love this. Okay. So, are those basically your questions? Like how do I figure this out? Or do you have an additional question?

Well, my question is, how the bloody hell do I fundraise when it's tough to, you know, I've applied for so many grants, pitching events, all of that stuff, but how do you fundraise effectively when you're just doing everything yourself? Yeah. And can you give us a rough estimate of how much you put in already? Like several thousand dollars?

25,000. That's not an inconsiderable amount of money and obviously you've got something worth pursuing. But here's where you have a massive competitive advantage versus every micro brand out there in all categories. You are an actor. You have a background in acting. You have incredible charisma.

There's an infectious quality to your personality. To me, it feels like you can really use those qualities to build this brand up slowly and methodically. One simple idea I thought for funding is to try crowdfunding.

I just tried it, I just launched it. I found women, I just launched it. Kickstarter failed terribly because I didn't have instruction as to what to do once I set the page up. But then try it again or try a different one, but you're trying one because everything you've said here is so interesting and makes so much sense. It's the story, it's the product, it's what it's done for you. I mean, this was really helped you in your pregnancy.

What a great way to start marketing or telling a story around a product. And so that's where I think you have an opportunity to start to raise a little bit of cash and to see if you can, you know, maybe raise another 20, 25 grand and find, you know, hopefully other people who can help you kind of begin to take this to the next level.

And do you trust, I mean, Lara, I know you were also doing this by yourself. So how do you trust that you're even doing what you're supposed to be doing and not wasting time on things that you're not supposed to be doing? Because you don't have the other eyes and ears on you or working with you to say, listen, no, that's no good. Let's try this instead. Like right now, this is a great group for me. I think, you know, this is great education, but I don't have that every day. So how do you do that?

You know, I really led with optimism and I was really passionate as you are. And that passion and optimism is future and forward thinking, is really what it's about. I actually just got a degree in that and positive psychology.

Because I'm so curious about your second life and career we haven't even talked about. Because I'm just so interested in what about the human condition and what compels us as human beings. And I think entrepreneurs are very forward and future thinking people.

And so to Guy's point about you, you've got it. I faced those same peaks and those same valleys that you're going through right now, which is why am I gonna do this? At the time I had my idea, everybody thought I was completely out of my mind. I was dealing with an oversaturated category, which is still as today, yet there was still room for something new and different. So there is always a way, right? If there's a will, there's a way, and you've got it going on.

And there's so many ways to really push this out, you know, cold and flu season, just a sipping beverage, anti-inflammatory. I mean, as we speak today, the New York Times has an article about anti-inflammatory foods. And I believe ginger is right on the front of that article. Yeah, of course it is. And even for like, you know, for at one point, I was talking to someone about trying to maybe get into the hospital, you know, the shops in hospitals because

of cancer patients, my mother died in 2006 from stomach cancer and watching the effects of chemotherapy and nausea is a huge side effect of it. Huge. Right? And it just, it depletes your energy. It just, it kills you literally, right? And I just thought, my God, if I had, if this had come across my path, my brain,

When my mother was still alive, this would have helped her enormously. It won't cure cancer, but it would help those after effects. I can't scream it loud enough from any mountain top. The fact that I drink this every day, literally, the minute it touches my mouth, I'm like, oh, every day, every day.

It just like chills you. Yeah, I think it's a great idea. One of the ways to do it is you start with who you know. You start with literally your closest friends and you just ask them, can you put in 500 bucks? Can you put in 1000 bucks? You go to, you know, if there's a community group that you're in, if there's parents at school and you just, you have to put yourself out there and say, no big deal if you, you know, it's a lot, it's a big ask.

I'm trying to raise money and you'll have equity, you'll have a stake in this thing. And I really believe in it. And I'm trying to raise about 20, 25 grand to go to the next phase of it. It's that discomfort of asking people for money. Like I'll ask a stranger if I have to, but with my friend group and whatever, you know, I'm the one that kind of helps with advice and, you know, and sort of wisdom, et cetera, et cetera. Thanks to my mommy. I very rarely ask

for help in that sense. Like, to ask you for money, I'm the one that will lend you the money. So how do I, I was just thinking while you're talking, do I just pretend I'm a different character and to ask them for money? And that makes me even think that I'm stuttering. Lara, Lara, let's put on your positive psychology degree here. Right. Asking is hard. Asking is very hard for a lot of people. It's very hard. It's hard for me, I'll be honest with you.

But I do think that if there's one thing I've seen in almost 700 episodes of How I Built This is that virtually every entrepreneur on the show has figured out how to get over that and how to ask for help. Laura? It's so true. It's just, it's creating a new habit. I mean, you're asking for feedback right now. You've already taken a huge step. You're on this program. You've already asked, like you have it in you to do it, right?

and you just have to just little steps, one thing at a time, right? You're not gonna get to the top of the mountain tomorrow, but one little ask at a time, everybody has their own way of asking, right? Like, I agree, I don't like asking either, but I like to be like a natural fit, right? Like, I like to connect with people because it just like, we have a similar thing. And I did that with the stores when I got in the stores, I was like, I'm not gonna,

I'm not going to knock down the doors of people that don't believe in me, but I'm going to go where the energy is flowing, right? The people that believe in me and people like that. So that's what I would do.

If you don't ask, you never know. I know. And if you don't ask, you don't get. Oh, I have all those. Okay. All right. You got this. You got this Loretta's British ginger tea. Look for it. Look for it in your stores. One day, Loretta, congrats. Good luck. We're cheering you on. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So great to meet you. You too.

So Lara, we are at the end of another episode of advice line. And it's so cool to hear one of my favorite things. And I mean, I'd be lying if I didn't say it was one of my favorite things is when people call in or people stop me at airports or wherever and they're like, I listen to this show every day building my business. It's so heartening because that's why we do it. That's why we brought you on all those years ago. We do it for that reason to give people the energy to keep going when it's hard.

Yeah, I think we all need inspiration. I'm still inspired by the show. I'm an entrepreneur and I listen to these episodes and every time I learn something, I love learning new things and understanding how there's a lot of different ways to get there.

Yeah. And I should mention, you are embarking on a new chapter in your life. I mean, you built and scaled a successful company and brand. You've been an investor and a mentor. I know you were doing that for a long time. Still do a lot of that. But you on the side went on and did like a graduate degree in psychology, right? I did.

typical of me on a whim, just like Laura, but I didn't plan it. I had my undergrad psych and I was a social worker many years ago. Then I got into this program and then I started dissecting how did I get to where I was as an entrepreneur using grit and resilience, perseverance, optimism, all of that stuff.

And I just realized like, this is where I really want to put my energy and how I want to help people using those, you know, these core concepts. It's so cool. Congrats. And so tell me a little about how you're thinking about doing that.

Well, it's early stages guy. But one of the ways is really coaching people. I think that I've learned I've done a lot of that myself and it really helps me. And when you, you know, coaching is about leading with curiosity and really asking people those questions. I mean, you're very good at that on your show. You're curious. You ask people really crucial questions that get you them to think

And so I'm starting an organization with a cohort member of mine and we're going to do educational pieces and coaching and just make it really fun and approachable. As entrepreneurs, you know, we

It's not just the business prowess. It's the psychology behind it. How do you get up every day? Loretta, how do you keep going when you're faced with an obstacle? What do you do? How do you get the inspiration? How do you reach out when you don't feel like you want to reach out? Yeah. I think we all need that support. Yeah. Thank you so much for coming out of the advice line. Thanks for having me. Such a pleasure.

That's Lara American, founder of Lara Bar, and more recently, co-founder of Anther, a coaching service for entrepreneurs. By the way, if you haven't heard Lara's original high-built this episode, you've got to go back and check it out. You can find a link to it in the podcast description, so just scroll down and check it out. And here is one of my favorite moments from that interview.

Well, the trademarking attorney called me at the 11th hour and we were getting ready to launch. It was the year 2002 summer and she said, I think you're going to need to change the name. And I just thought you're joking, right? I've left working at Whole Foods and we're supposed to be launching, but we don't launch. And everybody's backing out because nothing's happening.

Thank you so much for listening to the show this week. Please make sure to sign up for my newsletter. You can sign up for that for free at GuyRos.com. And every week we put in tons of insights from entrepreneurs, my own observations and experiences interviewing some of the greatest entrepreneurs.

ever. If you are working on a business and you would like to be on this show, send us a one-minute message that tells us about your business, the issues or questions that you'd like help with and hopefully we can help you with them. And make sure to tell us how to reach you. You can send us a voice memo at hibt at id.wondry.com or call 1-800-433-1298 and leave a message there and we'll put all this in the podcast description as well.

This episode was produced by Sam Paulson with music composed by Ramteen Arablui. It was edited by John Isabella and our audio engineer was Neil Rauch. Our production staff also includes Alex Chung, Elaine Coates, Carla Estves, Neva Grant, J.C. Howard, Chris Messini, Devin Schwartz, Katherine Cypher, and Kerry Thompson. I'm Guy Raz, and you've been listening to How I Built This.

If you like how I built this, you can listen early and add free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey.