708: Hidden History Of Dogman

Markle? This was all circulating around the base that a giant had been killed but no one was supposed to talk about it. I saw three long boing fingers reach up underneath the door, hurl up to grab it and then disappear. When he came over to Nate, dude he slithered over to me.

out of the cave and they're all frozen. And he starts running and firing up the giants. For the giant move, he's got a spear in one hand and he's running really fast and spears Dan blows him up like this. Somebody else shoot him in the face, shoot him in the face, they basically decapitate him. That person, that person, that person when he's got about 15 yards away from me, I've raised that four days and I blow this head off.

I feel something pulling at my leg and I look over and there are two small gray entity pulling it and there literally I'm getting pulled off the bed. I reach my hand in this bush and I touch air, couldn't breathe and it couldn't move because I know I'm seeing a monster.

Welcome to the show. Everybody listening to the professionals podcast. I'm your host Tony Merkel. Thanks for being here. If you have a crazy wild experience, want to share with me on the show, go ahead and shoot me an email. My email address is contact at theconfessionalspodcast.com. That's contact at theconfessionalspodcast.com or go to the website, theconfessionalspodcast.com. Hit the contact section and you can reach me that way as well. Otherwise for me, just get ahold of me. If you want more shows on a weekly basis, we have you covered.

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Also, check out mercmerch.com for all your Merkle Media apparel. We launched our own apparel line. I'd say about eight months ago, and it's been great. People have been loving it, and we're working on some new designs right now, so stay tuned for that at mercmerch.com. All right, friends, today we have Seth coming on the show. He came in studio to talk about ancient historical dog man. He has been mapping out historical documents that state seeing

dog-headed human-like people. These are historians that talk about this to ancient explorers all coming and saying, yes, we have encountered or we've heard stories of these dog-headed people in faraway lands. He has uncovered tons of documented evidence and he comes on today to talk about it all. Let's get set on right now.

When I went to Utah in September, I did a dog man talk. They reached out to me and they wanted me to speak and we arranged it all. But in the beginning of it, I said to them, I'm not sure if I'm your guy for this though. I was like, I'm not sure you want me talking at Phenomicon. I said, I'm really weird.

And they're like, no, that's perfect. I'm like, okay. And so they said they didn't care what I talked about as long as it's on topical, paranormal-ish. And I was like, well, I definitely don't want to talk about ghosts or like anything that those guys are going to be speaking on anyways. And I knew Skinwalker Ranchers right there and all that. So I figured Dogman might be a good blend into that. I had no idea that nobody ever, F&MCon talked about Dogman before.

And so yeah, yeah. And so like I get up there and they give me 90 minutes and usually it's like 60 minutes and they're pushing off the stage at 50 and like they give me 90 minutes. And I go up there and I open up the whole talk with a historical dog man. And so like,

I went into the historical figures that talked about these things, right? And I used your website a lot. In fact, all my slides had your website right there up on the corner. I think I sent you pictures of that to show you, yeah.

I do that talk where I opened up with historical dog man, then I go into manufactured dog man, and then I go into metaphysical dog man. I just migrated through to topics pretty smoothly. To the point that I actually had a rush at the end to get my talk done, which was crazy that I didn't have enough time with 90 minutes. Another feeling right now.

But I was like, I think I even said in the beginning of the conversation or the talk that I said, you know, this first part is historic a dog, man. I'm not sure how much you guys are actually going to be into this part, but I find it interesting. So I'm going to talk about it. And I can't tell you how many people

came up to me afterwards saying the most fascinating part about the talk was historical dog man. Let's go. It changed their paradigm because they thought that this idea of dog man

or werewolves or lichen is all just fairytale talk. It wasn't based in reality, especially for this group of people that were more focused on aliens and haunting type stuff. I don't know how much they put into the cryptid world. So maybe Bigfoot might be something like, okay, we have gorillas, sure, but an upright walking dog is kind of crazy. And I agree. It's crazy, but it's real.

When I when I kind of laid that stuff out and I actually read quotes from some of the historians and all that stuff like, like, they said that was the most impressive part of the talk and I was like, sir, tell me like, dog man on military basis, snatching soldiers into bushes isn't interesting.

my favorite part. How can we hunt these things down when they're interdimensional? And they're like, no, historical. I guess the main attraction part of that talk to you because it wasn't until after I had you on the show. I forget what episode number that was. Maybe Jack can look it up. I think it was 652.

Yeah, it sounds about right. Sure. But I think I just called it historical dogman or something like that. And we put it up for the members and they loved it too. I was like, I got to have him back in studio and we were already planning on it.

The first one wasn't in studio. Now that now you're here in studio. And so I want, I want to kind of unleash more. And because I think when we just did that conversation, you told me you're like, there's so much more. They really, I'm like, how, like, how is that even possible? And you're like thousands of documents. I'm like, what? Did you, did you?

Did you ever find another person to start interpreting the Latin? Because you said that the previous guy. Yeah, I texted you about that. No, I haven't yet. Because yeah, I had a professor and some students were helping me translate some of the texts. And they did. But then like, you know, student graduates, I've got crazy for the professors. So they haven't been able to help me out recently. So yeah, I reached out and was like, you know, anybody who can translate Latin stuff or that would actually translate Latin stuff about Dogman? Yeah.

No, I haven't found anybody yet, so I'm still looking. Is that guy still in the table still, or is he kind of too busy right now? Maybe, maybe not for a little while. Before we go too much further, because I actually want to talk to you about this, how that relationship starts, and what does that professor think of all this stuff. But why don't you tell people listening who you are, and where they can find the content and information we're going to be talking about today, because you have a whole website that's dedicated to this stuff.

Sure thing. Yeah. So my name is Seth Vannebrook. I am a biblical and historical researcher. Last time we talked, my full-time profession was actually cybersecurity and software engineering, but my full-time job is now actually studying the Bible and answering Bible questions. For real? I can't deny it. How did you learn that? It was totally the Lord, man. It was literally the church that I go to reached out and out of nowhere was like, hey, so we get

hundreds of Bible questions a month that we can't keep up with all of them. And we need a full time position. And everybody thought that you might make sense for that role. What do you think? And I was like, what? My mind was absolutely blown. So, so I now do that full time. So I study the Bible, other things that might come up where people have questions that are, you know, related to the Bible, whether like, Hey, what about this? Like I hear conspiracy theory stuff and they're like, what about this? And what about that? And flat earth and this and that. And so I'm like researching and replying, like,

Well, yeah, this person claimed that and that person claimed that, but that's not the case. So I love it. It's literally my favorite. Yeah, like your job is to study the Bible. It's like dream job. You want to host my show, take over the show and I'll do your job. Like that sounds awesome, dude. Yeah. No, I absolutely love it. So yeah, I literally spent all day answering Bible questions one after another.

A lot of them are really wild. And some of them are people reaching out kind of like challenging like, well, you should change your mind. You guys should teach this. And so a lot of it kind of becomes his like scholarly debate kind of stuff, which again, I actually really enjoy. And then a little bit on the side is actually we have a school, a middle school and high school where we, you know, it's Christian private school. And so I'm the substitute Bible teacher there. So I'll fill in for the teachers that are teaching Bible. And there's a little bit of history stuff that I've jumped in for as well. So I absolutely love it. It is the best.

Did you go to school for this or was it just like the church you go to respects your intellect when it comes to the Bible and your passion? It's the latter. I didn't go to school for the Bible. I didn't even finish my degree because I went straight into programming because I'd been doing it all growing up, worked for the government, all sorts of stuff. I just didn't need that degree. So I don't even have a degree.

Um, and people have brought that up when I'm like, I'm teaching the school and teachers like, Oh, that's great. Like you must have, you know, an MDiv or whatever. And I'm like, no, like I just read a lot of stuff. I read the Bible like crazy. And I read all sorts of historical documents from the Greeks, Mesopotamians, Egyptians and the Jews.

And it just kind of works out. So it's honestly, it's really encouraging because ultimately, like I don't have any credentials, right? But it's a calling. It's not, you know, God doesn't call the equipped, he quips the call. And so that's what happened. Like he called me and that's the only explanation I can give people. It's like, well, I read stuff. He gives me the answers and I give the answers to other people. So you're just a middle man. I'm just a middle man.

I didn't write the book. I'm just telling you what the book says. That's cool, man. I agree. I don't think you need a Bible degree to teach the Bible to answer questions about the Bible. The Bible should be the main resource anyways for most people. Really, all you have to do is

Hey, I have a question. You're like, actually, first Timothy, you know, verse two in chapter five, you know, is there five chapters? I think there's five chapters. But it's just like, you know,

That's what it is. Yeah, it's plain simple. But yeah, but so, you know, back to why I don't care at all what I have to say. So yes, I studied the Bible and I researched it in the last several years. I've been researching, just been curious, went down the whole rabbit trail of, you know, what are the Nephilim? I mean, I grew up curious about it. My mother has actually raised Roman Catholic. And so I was curious about that when I asked about it. She was like, Oh yeah, well, there are actually these other apocryphal texts and other things to talk about it more, but the Bible just mentions it briefly.

And I was like, well, that's interesting. And so I grew up with a lot of curiosity. And when I started digging into the Nephilim, that's what just kind of sent me off that crazy rabbit trail. And then I started reading a lot of stuff by like Michael Heiser and Dr. Tim Mackey and Ryan Peterson and all those a lot of that stuff coming out more more recently, at least in the last like five or seven years.

And then that sent me down all those rabbit shells like, okay, wait a minute. Well, I have these skills where I can, I already know how to study things and look at the primary sources, look at those original languages and get answers from people who know what they're talking about. And so I just started digging into it and I was fascinated by this crazy statement that angels were able to come down and

have children with humans, and what happens after that? Crazy stuff happens after that. And so I read Enoch, read tons of apocryphal texts to see, like, okay, what are they claiming? What does it say? And I always clarify with people, like, I don't think that first Enoch and Jubilee's and Jasper and these other things.

are actually under God's holy inspired word. I don't consider that in there where I don't think it's perfect. And for people who aren't Christians in general, I still tell them, no, I don't think because I've been to kids of this a lot, like, oh, well, you're the type of person that just believes that if it's written down, it's true. Like, no, I really don't. I'm super skeptical. Contrary to maybe popular belief, I'm a super skeptical person. I want to see a lot of evidence before I consider something being possible.

That's why even with dog meeting with all of the research and evidence that I found, I still, I'm an open minded person. So I say, hey, I have a lot of evidence that tells me that it's probable that they exist. All the stories that you hear that are on your podcast, I've enjoyed listening to a lot of the stories that people have told. I've encountered this and I believe them. So I'm like, I look at that and I go, look, I think there's high likelihood that this is a thing, that it's been a thing for thousands of years.

but I'm always open to being proven wrong. You know, it could be that we die a good heaven to find out that, you know what, it's actually demons can do a lot more in terms of hallucination than we thought. It can feel physical, look physical, like, I don't know. But as far as I can tell, things point in a very certain direction. And so I'm able to hold things loosely, but also I'm like, I do want to see evidence, you know, and so I'm reading those passages and reading all those things and I start coming across these concepts of, hey, there's more than just tall giants.

And that's where I started talking to a lot of people. They're asking a lot of questions. That's what made me start my blog, which is the answer to the question previously, which was, you know, we're hopefully Jack has already put it up on screen somewhere. Yeah, I know. We're already like, what, 10 minutes into it. Yeah. So project leas are calm is my blog. I put a lot of stuff up there.

The thing that I believe in because of what I've just said is that it bothers me when I read things, not just listen to podcasts as well, but when I read things or talk to people and they're like, oh, well, we know this is true because of stuff. And I'm like, where's the stuff? Where's the proof? Where's the I want to see it? Like I want to read it and I would like to read those things.

A lot of times they don't give you those sources. They don't give you the citations. So my blog is very focused on I'm going to give you links to stuff. I'm going to give you the exact citations. I'm going to tell you where you can find these things because that's what I want. I don't want someone to just tell me that this is a thing. I want to see the profile and see the evidence. I want to see the sources. So.

That's what my blog is all about. It's mostly focused on the Bible, but in general, it's just a lot of what I find interesting. What is mysterious in history? What are things that come up that just kind of go against the general paradigm that the modern American has? Because I've continued to be challenged on my beliefs as I read things and I connect dots and I go, okay, well, we have methods for deciding that something is probably true.

Right. And those methods we use across the board, but a lot of times when we're looking at things that are strange, like Dogman or like, you know, ghosts or giants, people disregard those standardized methods.

Like with the Bible, we have, you know, we refer to as hermeneutics and it's, there's a process. It's like set in stone. It's, it's very logical. It's all about this is how you approach any literature, really. Like it applies to a lot more than the Bible, but, you know, that's just the word that we use in, in that realm. But when you use hermeneutics, like there are rules to say some time to people who are like, well, we can't really know. I'm like, no, we can. Like there are rules. So there's methods. There are things that we can use to have certainty about what scripture means. And we can use the same rules for

all this other literature. And we can connect the dots, we can do the research and we can find out what's actually going on. So that's what I try to do with the blog, connect the dots, show you a whole bunch of different, you know, here's what the Bible says. Also, here's what all these other texts say. Here's what these Jewish texts point out. Here's what ancient Jewish scholars say. And here's what Plato said. And you know, let's connect these dots and see what's actually going on here.

Because there's more than meets the eye with all these topics. Totally way more. And I think that we might be in a golden age right now where moving forward in the timeline, I think maybe people are going to be more open to hearing some of this stuff.

And you know, stuff that goes against their upbringing or what their traditional thought process was on certain things, you know, when I was growing up.

And probably even the idea of ghosts was kind of ridiculous. And now it's like, oh no, people are definitely experiencing things. That's tangible real stuff going on. It used to be, you sit there at home in the living room when I was a kid and you're catching some kind of TV show and it's like a mysterious show and this person says that they had a ghost in their house like, whoa, that's kind of crazy, probably not true, but crazy. And now it's like, of course.

Why would we even make a TV show about that? That's the main attraction. It's so much crazier. I think we're in a point where things are going to start snowballing in the right direction for people like you and myself. Before we get into this stuff though, let's bring it back to how this professor got involved with you because you do your own study, you do a lot of reading, but you also have the aid of somebody who actually can read.

Latin and some languages that you can't to help you discern what's being said. Right. So, yeah, honestly, it's not a long story. It's really just I reached out and was like, I talked to a couple of friends who I knew knew some Latin.

And it was like, hey, I'm working on this project. Didn't really get into the details. I was just like, yeah, I'm reading some old texts. Would you be able to help me out with this? And they're like, no, but our professor, he's great. Had him years ago, you should reach out. So I reached out to him. And it was actually at a college where I worked on that campus, the smaller Christian college. But it wasn't for the college that I worked for, this nonprofit, Christian organization.

And so, um, so I reached out and was just sent an email and was like, Hey, I'm reading these texts, it's kind of some crazy topics. Um, there are apparently, you know, I've reached out to the library of Congress. They're telling me there's no English translation of this stuff. Like, can you help me out? And you just like, sure.

He just took it and was like, yeah, I'd love to help you out. That looks really interesting. I didn't get what I didn't do as I wasn't like, hey, can you help me study dog man? I didn't say that. You let him connect the dots. I'm noticing that everything you send me has something to do with dog headed people. Yeah, it's true. What are we doing here?

Exactly. It was like, well, look at this chapter. I mean, it would talk about a lot of stuff, right? So it was like, oh, yeah, Egyptian stuff. And look at all these monstrous races. Cause we've talked about that last time. I was like talking about giants and I was talking about, you know, these, the headless people and all these different concepts and documentaries in there. So I don't know, he may not even fully know. I've just been feeding him texts and being like, Hey, can you help me translate this? Um, so I think, I mean, it's been great. It's been really useful, but, you know, things are crazy as a professor and I totally get that.

He's lost some of his better students because they graduated. But he did say he's still down to help. It's just that right now, it's not working out. So if you know how to translate Latin, specifically ancient Latin, and you want to help out, I would really appreciate it. Yeah. Contact. There's probably a good chance that somebody listening right now does know how to do that. Project delays are at proton.me because

On how I like their you like encryption. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's what we run our our email through to really yeah proton mail so when people when people email contact at the Confessionals podcast calm They're emailing to the proton server gotcha. So yeah, you have the domain, but it's yeah, yeah, I love proton good choice. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I

I still get people emailing, you know that certain created proton. I know, I know. Nothing safe. We can't enjoy life. Nothing to make us smile. You know?

I don't know what else to do. Google the best option then? No, but what do I do? Well, there's this one obscure one that I found on the dark web you start using. The security professionals who are really into it, like you should host everything yourself, run your own internet, have everything locked out. I'm like, yeah, that's expensive. Rent a basement in a commercial building, put all your servers in there, run it all yourself. It's going to only cost you about $50,000 a month.

It's secure. I say that. I was totally that kind of person. I didn't go that far, but that was my industry. I thought about it back in 2020 around that era when things were going real berserk. I was looking into how can I run my own servers so that I can't be taken off the internet. I got about as far as a cup of coffee on it.

I was like, I'm done. It gets complicated. I was like, I can't figure this out. It seems pretty expensive. Comcast it is. Yes, it is. Let's get into it, man. Where are we going? That's the foundation of how you got into all this stuff, but where are we going to go from here now?

Yeah, so I kind of wanted to start by thanking your community because we did a members only episode and you guys are awesome. A lot of you guys reached out. I was surprised. A lot of you reached out to my Instagram and my blog and email and were like, Hey,

You're doing great stuff. Keep it up. I appreciate it. And all of you, like, have you read this? Have you looked into this? What about that? Have you looked into this? And I'm like, actually, yes, actually, yes, actually, yes. And I know a few people were upset that I didn't talk about St. Christopher were actually not going to talk about St. Christopher. I'm sorry.

Okay, let me just do the thousand foot overview for people. St. Christopher was a dog man. From what I understand, I looked into it and correct me if I'm wrong, thousand foot overview. The suggestion is that he comes from a tribe of, oh, I had it. Sinocephaly. Sinocephaly. He got it.

And I guess he converted to Christianity. And that's why in these ancient depictions, a lot of them have dog-headed St. Christopher. It'll show him talking. Yeah, there are tons of, the reason why I don't want to get into it is because

It's one of the more confusing ones. Is it really? Yeah, there's so many versions of the story. Interesting. It's kind of like Cinderella, how it just branches out and you have so many versions or like King Arthur. It gets really confusing because you have so many different versions where it's like, he wasn't really dog headed, he was, he was king of knight, he was giant, he wasn't a giant.

Like there's so many variations of the story you can get so lost in the weeds and eventually it's just not entertaining. It's kind of boring. So that's where I'm like, I don't really know that it'd be worth going into that. But it seems that the older stories.

referred to him as being a Canaanite giant dog headed person that got saved and then was witnessing both his type of people and others. Supposedly, supposedly. It's so far back to how do you know? How do you know? But so many stories it gets confusing. So I'm sorry to all of you who really want to talk about.

But the good, the good news is if, if they know about St. Christopher and they're so interested in saying Christopher and you're saying that's actually one of the more confusing ones. We're in for a fun ride then. It's true. Yes. Yeah. Hopefully you'll find this fun ride. I, I'm going to go over some of the more, um,

I don't know if eye-catching is the right word, but some of the ones that really stand out because it's some of the names that people will recognize more easily. So I think it's going to be a fun one. But yeah, so last time we, we covered stuff like we talked about Herodotus, Tejas, ancient Hittite, cuneiform tablets. We talked about hieroglyphics of Herodot below, St. Augustine. We talked about the perioris map and we actually led with that map. So what I'd like to do is start with map again. Sweet. Because there are plenty of maps.

I love it. So let's start with another map. I kind of like this story because there's a little bit more of a story that goes along with this map, but Martin Voldsemuller. That's a fun last name, which I'm almost as fun as yours. Vandenberg is pretty wild. So Martin Vansmuller, sorry, Voldsemuller, 16th century, which is the same century as the Perry Rees map that we talked about last time.

Um, he is actually the, the cartographer that in 1507 put out the first map that showed America labeling it America. So, and he said that he was basing it off of America, America of Espucci made all those connections.

It was a big deal. It was a big map, big part of history, right? Well, tenish years later, he comes out with another map that according to his own words, was like a lot more accurate. And he like basically nerd it out, did a whole lot of historical research and corrected it and said, no, it's not America named after America of a speech. It's still called it America, but he actually attributed it to not

America being the first guy to discover it, but Christopher Columbus, of course, now we know that people before that and then we learn about people for that. And if you're really going on the rabbit trail, of course, people like us are like, the Venetian Giants were there way before anybody. But anyway, so he updated it and said, hey, this is way more accurate map.

In this map, you can look it up like it's on Wikipedia. Now I will say, if you really want to see the pictures that have a dog man, it's better to go to the Library of Congress. They have high quality images of all the different sections of it because it's a big map. You had to piece it together because it's huge. Really? Yeah. So I forget how many sections there are. It's like over 12.

So a whole bunch of sections and in one of them in this region of Northern India, unsurprisingly to people like us, there are dog men. Of course, like before I would have been like, what am I looking at? And I told you that's how I got into it in the first place. So I was looking at maps and I was like, why are these dog headed people here? Like what is going on? And that set me down this whole rabbit trail or dog trail, if you will. Okay, so with that,

What was the genesis for you then to getting into this topic? Was it seeing that stuff or was it being aware of these legends and then looking into it? It was maps. Wow. It was a, I think my blog I even said like on a summary day.

I remember it was like a summer day, I bought a couple of old maps because I'm that kind of nerd, and this is so excited. I was like, they came in the mail, opened up my map, started looking at them, and I'm like, wait, this is really weird. What's going on here? Why am I seeing dog-headed people in South America? What is this? That's the thing that introduced me to concept. I hadn't really heard of it before. I think I had

I'd roughly heard of people in modern days, like, oh, you know, Michigan dog, man. But I'd only heard the term. Never looked into it. Never thought you'd think about it. It's like, OK, those people are crazy. Yeah. Sorry, everybody. I don't think that anyone. But, you know, I was like everybody else. I thought all this stuff was nuts, right? It took a lot of time looking into the stuff to see if there's even anything to it.

But yeah, it was the maps. I got the Perry Rees map. That was the first one I thought I looked at and was like, what is this? Looked at more maps, more depictions of these sinuscephaly and almost like, what's a sinuscephaly? So looked in the size. I was like, oh, that's a Latinization of the Greek word and the Greeks are talking about. Whoa. And then I just, it was wild because I found all of these documents and all of these writings. And I was like, how is there this much? Because, you know, this is repeating a little bit from last time, but I'm like,

you look into like big fight, you're finding some old stuff. You're looking into unicorns, you actually find a lot of stuff on unicorns, but looking to random different things in past like mythical creatures, you'll be like, oh, there's actually some written stuff about this. You come across the dog-headed people or the sinuscephaly, and you will find such an overwhelming amount of stuff. Now, to be fair, maybe half of that stuff is actually like easily readily available.

or maybe a little bit less. But a lot of it, to be fair, you do have to dig even deeper for. And that's where I've been the last year or so is finding those harder to find sources. But you can easily get jumpstart and find a whole lot of stuff. And you'll run across blogs and people are like, oh, yeah, this and that. Now, a lot of those Reddit pages or blogs

won't actually tell you the exact sources or point you to those things. Some of them do. I'm proud of those guys. But a lot of them don't. And so it's funny because you could say, well, set all you did is you put it on your black. Same thing. And that is true. But it wasn't really me trying. I wasn't trying. I wasn't going out like, oh, I'm going to go study Dogman.

I'm going to find a bunch of resources and I'm going to put stuff out there. It wasn't that at all. It just kind of accidentally happened. It came across it. And then I basically, a friend of mine was a pastor. This was lovingly, he was like, you're so stupid. Why are you spending all your time researching dog head? This is like my best friend. And I'm like, and we were just busting up. And I was like, no, I,

I was like the things I can't sleep at night because it doesn't make any sense. I can't reconcile this with reality. But I'm like, I know hermeneutics, I know stuff from anthropology and history, because I'm total nerd. And I look into that stuff and I talk to professors and I learn how you're supposed to study this stuff. And by all accounts, like this,

You know, if you're just following those rules, this should be real. But that goes against everything that I've been educated on, right? And so I was like, I couldn't sleep at night because I couldn't reconcile these things.

So I just kept researching it. So that's really what got me into it and how I kept digging into it. So, side tangent. That's wild. So anyways. I love it. So back to Martin Valtzemüller. So he made this map. So 1507, he comes out with that map with America. Then in 1516, he comes out with this new map called the Carta Marina. And I'm sorry, getting a call from my best friend.

And in this map, it's in northern India, in the mountains, which lines up with a lot of the people we already talked about in the last episode that we're talking about. These sinuscephaly, these dog-headed race of people living in northern India in the mountains.

So when you look at the map, it is pretty wild. It's not like, oh, it could be something else. It's like, no, these are definitely dog-headed people. And then you read the inscriptions, and it says flat out, like, yeah, these are dog-headed, monstrous people that live in this region. And when you look into the story of it, he does tell us a couple of the sources that he used. And one of them is,

is this guy named John of Plano Carpini. I always go to say Caprini, but it's Carpini. And he wrote stuff in 13 AD. Again, John of Plano Carpini from 13 AD, he wrote, it's called the Mongol Mission.

You can get this on like the, like archive.org. So like, you know, internet archive, the book is available there. And in this, he said this, and this, this is a little, we're going to start with something a little weird. I say that a little weird. Right place. Yeah. We started something a little weird, which is why I was taking a little, but I was trying to get back in my head because these guys as we're about to read are a little different from the rest of the, the races that we read about.

and it has to do with their feet. So here's a quote from the Mongol mission by John of Plano. It says, pressing on the Tartars reached a land bordering on the ocean, where they came across monsters who were, we were told for a fact, had human shape in every respect, except the extremities of their feet were like the hooves of oxen.

And although they had human heads, they had the faces of dogs. They would speak two words like human beings and the third, they would bark like a dog. So he's just trying to say like, they talk a little bit with human language and then they bark like a dog. And they broke into barking in this way at intervals. However, they always came back to the matter at hand. So it was possible to understand what they were talking about as well.

That's why. Yeah. From there, the Tarders returned to Comania. Yeah, Comania and some of them even stayed there until now. So this is a brief mention. A lot of the stuff that we read about docket people is actually more believable than this. This part's a little weird because it's like the more consistent

narrative is that a lot of these dog-headed people can't actually talk human in human languages. And that's part of the whole discussion for centuries is like, well, they can't talk, so they must be animals. Like, well, to be okay, to be fair, it's not that they say they can't talk that their speech is not human speech. So a lot of them say that they speak by barking and that they have their own dog language, that they can't understand. And then others say that they use sign language to communicate or both.

This is one of the few, and there are a couple others, but this is one of the few where he claims that they could actually kind of talk in this discernible manner in a language that was close enough to something they could understand. There are more writings that discuss these wars against the Tartars and these dogheaded people. And this is why Martin put them exactly where he did.

on the map, because there were these writings about the Tartars who basically at the time was more or less what we now refer to as Mongols that had gone that far into Asia, they had taken over a lot. So they're in that region of Tartaria, and they're pushing back against the dog-headed people, and they're at these wars, and they're fighting over land, as everybody does.

And basically the, the documented people end up in that region. So that's what he's basing his sources off of. You know, that tool is historically accurate. I have no idea. But that's what he did. And that's what he, you know, those are the sources he was saying he was using. There were a couple others that we won't get into.

But it's a wild map. It's really fun to look at because what he depicts, and if you pay attention to the different depictions of the sinusophila, some of them have their mouths closed and some of them have their mouths open. In this case, it shows in two different regions. I get it people with their mouths open and their tongue wobbling. That's supposed to symbolize the fact that they could speak.

I assume the answer is no to this question. Because you said, we're going to get weird. I'm like, OK, let's get weirder. But you're talking about the multilingual aspect of these things, where they use sign language, kind of speak for a human to understand. And then barking, obviously, very fluent. First language. Native tongue. Yeah.

I've talked to people who say they have communicated with these things and there is a suggestion that there is a telepathic communication at times with these things. Have you ever come across anything like that and these writings were suggest that these things are able to communicate without actually moving their mouse.

Yeah. So earlier you mentioned, what were the three things that you mentioned that you talked about in Utah that was the historical manufacturer to metaphysical? Yeah. So I have the reason on all three of those. Okay. And the way that I understand this to be, and it's kind of funny. I know a lot of people who don't have the context for this is just going to sound absolutely insane, but this should click in your head.

But having the understanding that these are highly likely descendants of Nephilim and Nephilim adjacent creations, this would mean that they are in fact

demon brood, to some extent, right? That they would have this super, they would have supernatural abilities. A lot of these writings will get into some of them, at least one or two that talk about magic that they perform because they're consistently understood to be, okay, consistently is the wrong word frequently, frequently understood to have magical abilities. So stuff like controlling ocean waves and forest magic and stuff like that. They were considered in South America from a lot of like oral traditions,

that they would be like kind of these spirit guides or have these spiritual aspects to them where they could vanish and very like honestly just demonic stuff right where they would have these magical abilities and then some of that stuff yes they would speak telepathically but I really do think that's because of you know if this is legitimate.

then my biblical paradigm tells me that this would be through supernatural means that they're able to telepathically communicate with somebody else. And who knows, maybe that's where some of this confusion is, because to be fair, it can be confusing. There's so many different sources. And you have to map it out and say, OK, well, these people are talking about these tribes in this location doing that. And these tribes in that location acting like this.

And we'll talk about Marco Polo a little bit later, but he talks about the ones that he saw look like bullmastiff dogs, but ones in Africa, they look more like jackals. And so there are variations. And when you talk about ones in Australia and certain islands, people who are South America, they're like, oh, well, they're cannibals.

Maybe they were because they're cannibal people too, right? Again, they say, because they say cannibal, but they're not talking about eating each other. They're talking about eating humans. Yeah. They want eating humans. And so they're like, oh, yeah, they eat whoever they catch. And so you'll hear like, okay, well, this tribe seems to be these wise sages. And this tribe seems to be a very civilized and this tribe will listen to be cannibals and barbaric and all over the place. And so sometimes you can read these things and go, oh, well, you know, it's inconsistent.

They don't know how could we know what they really are because everyone's telling a different story. Actually, no. They're telling consistent stories to certain locations. Yeah. And there's different tribes just have very different. They're like us. I mean, you know, it's like the different tribes you in and we do different things. We look different. We act different when we have different practices.

You know, we do magic. You know, let's acknowledge that. Absolutely. I mean, let's just, I mean, put it into perspective of, I mean, imagine if, you know, we're not going to this topic, but say millions of light years away, there are aliens that exist and they visit us here. I mean, that's a rabbit hole. I don't want to touch today. But imagine if that happened, they come here, they report back and they're like,

Yeah, you know, like we're all green here, but there, there's some like pale skin ones and some dark ones and some middle ones and some eyes look different than the others. And they're all the same species, but they look so different depending on where you go on this round ball that they have. Here it's flat. We just have this flat disc that we sit on. There it's a round ball. And it's just like, it's this perspective that might be shifting. And also,

with the supernatural angle of this. I feel like I say it a lot, but I'm increasingly becoming aware that we have new listeners that maybe aren't familiar with the old episodes. I have a twin brother and sister.

We know what twins are, but they came out looking very, very different. And I'm Puerto Rican and they're Puerto Rican, but my sister, like blonde, it's light brown hair, very fair skin. You would never think that she's Puerto Rican. And then her brother comes out darker than me looking like a Puerto Rican Mr. Bean. I mean, they look so different.

It's like they're twins. So the idea that all Nephilim types or these creatures that are off the side shoots of what happened have to all act and look the same, I think is kind of ridiculous when you just look at my own family. When I look at my family, they come from the same stock, but yet they have different attributes. So is it possible that some of these things have

more supernatural capabilities than others. Why not? I think it's exactly right. We talked a little bit last time. I don't know if you remember what we talked about about writings in

in the Second Temple period, Jewish literature that talk about the Nephilim. And they, like in Jubilees, that is Jubile's chapter seven. And first, you know, chapter seven, plus happens to be chapter seven. And they describe them as being, well, actually, you know, there were three races, we mentioned, I have a whole blog post on this, but like the three race article, you can look it up, but there are three different races and talks about like,

The first were these great giants, and then there was the Nephilim, and then it was these Eliyud, or the Eljo. And we have no idea what that last word really means, or what it comes from. So there's kinds of these different races. Then we see this stuff from the Book of the Giants. That's another text that's from the Dead Sea Scrolls. And it's talking about, you know, it says,

from those angels that impregnated women. It says, and they bore giants and monsters. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. M

So it's in his book, they took me to the Jews, and I think it's in book five, chapter two, section three. But he talks about them being looking entirely different from humankind.

entirely like entirely different. So it's like this, these people don't even look like people, it's what he's saying. And so when you look at that, when we say there's tons of variety and they don't even look human, it lines up with a lot of the stuff that we're talking about. When we talk about these different, you know, cryptic creatures or races, when we're talking about a dog headed person, or we're talking about a goat, a goat person, right, like a seder. And I was going to bring that up because of what you said, you know, when you were like, oh yeah, I would look at humans and look at all the variety.

There was this guy, Philistorgius, and we have some of his writings because of Fodius. The names I know are kind of funny, but Philistorgius, he wrote about, he was trying to find a way to talk about them. And the word that he ended up using for it was eight. He's like, there are these different types of apes.

And he talks about there's like the dog headed dog head when he uses sinuscephaly, and he talks about saders. And he use he goes back and forth. He uses the actual words. He refers to them as an ape and then he says, but it's this mythical creature, right? But he's pointing out the fact that they're humanoid, chimeric creatures. And by chimera, I mean, like,

a combination, a hybrid combination of animals. And so he actually goes into detail about, um, he mentions, oh yeah, there are these, he's like, I've seen a cedar. I've seen a goat man. He's like, it was actually captured in India and it was transported to Constantinople, which is where he was.

and the king constant in the whole had as a gift from the king of India. Wow. And he's a gap was caged and eventually it died and they used salt to preserve the body. And he's like, it's really wild looking. He said it was super ferocious and it was really hard to keep in place. And it goes into detail about it. And he says that his theory was he's like, well, this was clearly a seder.

And so he says, oh, I think now this is from, you know, Phil Storges was a Catholic, right? I forget what rank in the church he was, but he was a Catholic and he, so he didn't believe in the exist, even in the existence of other gods, whatnot. So he said, hey, I think this is where the Greeks got the concept of their God pan. It's like that they saw the real creature that I've seen and that they invented the concept of pan.

And now what I would say to that is, you know, if this legitimate, I would actually think it's the other way around. I think that it would be that there's a fallen angel that looks like that, that had kids. That's what exactly we're on. And so I look at that and go, well, this would be a type of Nephilim race that survives and you have these satyrs.

And Seder's stuff is wild. Maybe we could do an episode on that someday. But Seder's stuff is up there with science, definitely, and so much documentation. And have you ever gone to Europe, Tony? No, I don't. I don't go to you. I don't like leaving the boundaries of our country.

Well, if you go to Europe, I've taken so many pictures, but it's wild. You will see Seder stuff everywhere. Really? Yeah, especially in like Spain in... Oh, what's it? Picasso? It's not. No, wait. Yeah, public Picasso. He is known for doing a lot of art of Seder's.

Here's the thing. He said himself that he actually wasn't like, I'm going to go draw these things, paint these things, and sculpt these things because a bunch of different mediums of art. He said, no, I was actually guided by something. But there was something in my mind that just told me to do this. Really? So I'm like, this guy had a demonic influence and he just started making tons of satyr stuff.

It was like, go ahead, head person here. Go ahead person there. Good thing there. Like you go around, you go to the museums. You will see so many sculptures. You'll see it on rails in the Plaza de España in Sevilla, Spain. If you walk around, I went there with my dad. If you walk around, you will find like on the pillars, on the rails, on the floors, on the walls.

just like snuck in there, like it's not obvious. But if you pay attention and you look in, it's like the different details show this like go ahead with these horns and this person with his creepy smile. And I'm like, this is weird.

Why is it everywhere? It was like, oh, it's just art. I really don't think so. I really do think that this is a connection to something that's demonic. And the enemy is guiding people to worship them and celebrate them all throughout their cultures. And that goes even into our modern day culture. Art was the Hollywood, right? Art was what people

It was entertainment. It was to be admired. That's why they spent so much time in these churches creating such beautiful art. That way they trick people to go there. The idea of Hollywood and today's art, I just want to clarify. I was just kidding about that, by the way.

I know somebody's going to take me serious on that. But you look at today's art form is mainly driven by Hollywood and what's put on the screens and the hidden esoteric messaging that we see in today's modern art. It's like it's a new medium but the same tactics. It's very interesting. That's very interesting. And what you said about the fallen angels

You know, that's something that isn't hit on. It's not like a, I know, I know you didn't like it wasn't an original thought or anything for you, but like it's something I don't know if it's hit on a whole lot that the idea that, you know, the all these angels that rebelled.

The idea that they all looked the same is more of a construct of our modern commercialized understanding of angels. Right. Which mostly comes from medieval Catholicism. Because it's like, oh yeah, it's a person with wings. Not according to literally anything in the Bible. The Bible just does not depict them that way. Right. And I'm not even talking about like the wheels and wheels and all that stuff.

which actually is not what they look like. I don't know if we want to get into that, but it's linguistic stuff, so people misinterpret that. But when you look at descriptions of angels, they do look like us, first off. So when you see a normal angel, an average angel that appears, they just look like us. And Paul says, yeah, this is why you can mistake them for humans. That's how much they look like us. So sometimes you mistake them, sometimes it's, well, what did I just see in your freaking out in the Bible?

Other times you have specific type of not, not angel, because angels as a role, it's a messenger, but the ones that aren't necessarily messengers, those ones look crazy. And that's when we're talking about cherubim, seraphim, right? So cherub and a seraph, like those guys, we're talking about like.

They do have wings, like six wings, four wings. It'll talk about like the head of a ball, the body of a man, the feet of a ball, or the feet of a ball, the head of an eagle, or we got the head of a lion, the face of a man, like different crazy combinations. You look at Revelation, and it's talking about in the end times, we're gonna be, well, not us, but we're gonna be, as a God's wrath on the wicked, there's going to be this

the swarm of these creatures that have like the face of a human, but the teeth of a lion and the long hair like a woman and they have a tail, like a scorpion, a body, like a horse, and like all this crazy stuff is going on. That is the spiritual realm. That's what these things look like. It's crazy. And so we're talking about like Egyptian gods style stuff.

and crazier. And like, when you look at the different myths and you're looking at the Greek mythology and the Egyptian mythology and you're especially like, you know, if you look at, if you go to any of the museums in Europe and you're looking at the Assyrian, these Mesopotamian statues and you've got, you know, griffins and you've got sphinxes and all these different things, these guys are crazy combinations that actually line up with the concept of what these cherubium look like. And

And they're they're calling basically the same thing like this is a guardian cherub creature right. And it's lining up a lot with what the Bible is talking about and it's not one for one and there's there's plenty of lies, plenty of exceptions, plenty of confusion. Stuff is made up. I'm not saying all mythologies accurate, right? Sure. Sure. You know, don't don't think that's what I'm saying, but I'm saying there's a green of truth in a lot of these things back to what you originally said. Oh, you really believe everything you read. No.

No, but what we can see is we can see this pattern, and you know, I understand for someone who doesn't, who doesn't believe or doesn't, doesn't follow Christ, doesn't believe that the truth is that the Bible is truth, and they aren't truth, and it's proved correct time and time again. I mean, a lot of historians can even just say, hey, it's historically accurate book, but I understand that if you don't take that as full truth, a lot of women saying just doesn't line up, and that's fair.

But because of my spiritual experiences, because of me having personal empirical evidence that Jesus is real and that I might, I can't tell you how many times I've been saved from crazy demonic experiences. Like, you can tell me all day long that God doesn't exist, but when I call the name of Jesus and I'm being pinned against the wall by something I can't see,

His name saves me. So call whatever you want. But I'm like, for me, that's real. So for me, I read the Bible and I go, this is 100% truth. And I work from there.

I understand that doesn't really work for people who don't believe that stuff. And you have to dig even deeper, but you can still find it. You'll still find all those different texts and you can connect the dots. But for me, it's a lot easier because I'm able to say, okay, I know that these creatures exist because the Bible says so, and then I can go from there. Like, satyrs. Satyrs, one of the ones like Dogman, debatable, he might come up in this one passage and, you know,

in Isaiah, but only maybe it's debatable. Saters show up several times in the Bible, even show up in the laws of Leviticus. It's Leviticus 17-7. So literally God is like, hey, you guys can't do inappropriate things with Saters anymore, and you can't worship them. He literally says that, right? Yeah, he's going to pull it up. It's wild. Pretty sure it's 17-7.

When you look at stuff like that and then you have Isaiah 34 and 14, you have these different passages. They're talking about satyrs. The Bible recognizes them as fully real. And when you read it in most English translations, it will actually say goat demon.

So like these are demonic creatures. Yeah, seven, uh, uh, uh, lega 17 verse seven. So they, this is a ESV. So they shall no more sacrifice their sacrifices to goat demons after whom they whore. Yeah. Don't hold back, bro.

Yeah, this shall be a statute forever for them throughout their generations. Wow. And this is what, you know, this is stuff that was going on all the way up through Jesus' time, Caesarea Philippi, right? When he's saying, you know, on this rock and he's talking to Peter, I say your name is Peter, he's standing near the temple at Caesarea Philippi. What did they do there? They did adult things with goats. Why? Because according to legend, back in the day, they did it with not just goats,

But they did it with goat people with satyrs out of worship of the satyrs to the God pan. Supposedly the father of those guys. You know, we're kind of going down the satyr route, but just to keep it going. This reminds me of a hard right turn, but

Years ago, I was still driving truck and I get a phone call from West from Sasquatch Chronicles. And he's like, hey, man, I'm going to send you a link and I need you to listen to this conversation I just had. And he's like, he's like, I don't know what to do with it. And I think he actually, he, I know he, he aired it because I egged him on. I was like, you gotta air this, man. Who cares? You gotta air this.

This guy had an interaction with Bigfoot. But it was he went to this lady's house, an old lady's house, and she was co-living with these things. And he said that, I forget the whole story, but the guy continually emphasized the physical characteristics of a female Bigfoot. And the way he said it, I was like,

I'm pretty sure you would, bro. I'm pretty sure you would. And so with what you're saying and stuff, this idea that they would, you know, cross breeze or what, but like have sexual relations with these things. Just but judging off of that one story that popped in my mind and stuff, there's probably physical characteristics that wasn't too hard of a stretch for them and be like, okay, you know, like we're thinking like this.

this upright walking goat that just is scary to look at and very much physically, you know, a goat. And it may not be the case, you know, like it might be this hybrid looking thing that you're just like, put a bag over the head.

I'm like, we don't know what these things actually look like. To me, it's not too far of a stretch to say that people maybe didn't have so much of a hard time even committing those acts. Unfortunately, a lot of these writings that I come across are adult material.

Even with Dogman, there's some weird stuff that comes up with Ivan Petuto, who's an Arabic traveler, and he came back and he wrote all this stuff, and he writes about them. I wasn't planning to talk about it, so I don't have the citation in front of me, but he writes about them in his travel log, and he's talking about like, oh yeah, and this guy who like,

had sex with him a whole bunch. He said this tough. I'm like, whoa, I didn't want to need to know that. And so that, unfortunately, that stuff happened. And it shouldn't be surprising because if these creatures really are demonic, sexual worship and magic is a thing.

And unfortunately, it was incredibly common in the past. I'm sure it's still happening in cults and stuff like that, but it was a big deal. And this is why

God was speaking against it and saying, you guys can't do it. Like this is super bad, right? This is really, really bad. And I was going to talk about this part later in my notes, but since we're already on the topic, we're just going to keep it rolling. We're going to let this recording go as long as it needs to go. I wanted everything we wanted to cover today. I want to hit on it so I don't care how long this takes.

I have countless times come across stories of people talking about

a connection between dog man, werewolf type creatures and the occult. And sometimes in the same location at the same time. So would you just said rings so true to me that like, there is a connection here. I'm actually going to be having a lady come in studio here probably in 2025 sometime.

to go into some detail when it comes to this specific thing. But yeah, I don't know where I was going with it other than making that connection that people have often contributed to the conversation when it comes to the occult and these dog men, like even Shane Cashman from the Tim Pool Camp.

That's when I first heard about this connection. I was driving to Kentucky and I'm listening to him talk about on Tim Poole, how he talked to a witch who was in one of these magic schools, school is a mystery. She said they were learning how to open portals and they opened a portal and an upright walking. He said an upright walking dog came through. I was like, what? That's wild.

I've heard stuff like that. I've even heard there have been episodes on blurry creatures and stuff that they've had people come on and talk about some crazy stuff there, too, where it's similar thing. There's this book, I don't even recommend that people read it, but just so you know my source, there is a book called Science and Literature in the Middle Ages and Renaissance, and it speaks to the fact that there is a

that the concept of and it connects all the stuff that the cult had had and has this at least the very least in the Middle Ages, but it seems like it very much still does. This concept that there are these different types of spirits and that it talks about some of them.

being, you know, these, these dog headed people and it meant just several other kinds of things. And when you read it, it's connecting fairies and folklore and all sorts of creatures that you'd be like, there's no way. But it's saying this is all spiritual and it's connecting, connecting the dots to it. You know, I understand now and took me a lot of research to get to this point as a believer. But like, what I understand now to be, you know, when, when a Nephilim type creature dies,

according to not well, actually, so directly according to a lot of other Jewish texts, spirits of the dead Nephilim stick around and they become demonic spirits.

indirectly, but critically stated, you can connect the string in the different passages throughout the Bible. It is actually indisputably pointing out that that's the case. I was kind of following over my words because it's very linguistic. It's very like you have to dig into the, go beyond the English basically.

But it is when it all comes down to the understanding of what the referee more in the refram were connected to them that filee and we understand the red word. Refine changes over time as the Bible's talking about them and first it's talking about them as these giants that are live. Then it's talking about them as giants that are dead but still here and it's talking about them as these departed spirits evil spirits that are doing this bad stuff.

So the language is there that they were once alive. Now they're dead, but they're still here. You get more detail into what people believed that meant from other texts outside of the Bible. But the Bible itself does prevent it. And if you want really good literature on that, honestly, like Michael Heiser is one of the better people who points to a bunch of scholars and shows how that makes sense. And it was one of the other people that really explained it to me well.

Um, because I've heard other people mentioned like, oh yeah, this is the thing. I'm like, where's the evidence? Like I want to see that that's the thing. Cause I'm not reading that in my English translation of the Bible, but it's there. You just have to really, really dig for it. Um, but yeah, unseen realm and the demons book by, by Michael Heiser, he, um, he really explains that well and goes step by step.

What's the second book you mentioned demons demons there's like a subtitle that but I forget is like the powers of darkness something but it's the most is the only book that I feel like I can recommend on demons because not dark. It's just hey here's what the Bible says and here let's go in depth and see. Linguistically what's actually going on here because he was a linguist yeah that's what he did so.

That's the only book that I can really recommend on that anyone he could read. I've missed that one. You should check it out. I missed that one. I think you would connect a lot of dots for you. Yeah, I think I think is it easy to read an unseen realm? Because that one was like a head trip.

That's probably similar, but it probably would be easier for you to read. I never read an unseen realm. I listened to it several times while I was driving truck, which was, oh, that's hard. It was terrible because it's like, yeah, it rewind that 10 times and I wish I could take a note right now because I have this thought and I got to remember it was terrible, but I listened to it a lot. That's the kind of book you really want to read. Yeah, physically. Yeah. Yeah. And I got the demons book physically and that

So that helped a lot. Check it out. So I would highly recommend getting that in not audio form, because that would be confusing. But yeah, he does a really good job. I would say it's easier than Nancy and Roman the way that, like, if your paradigm is already set in place to understand that stuff, it's not really that big of a

stretch and unseen realm is like challenges a lot of modern paradigms. I don't really feel like the demons book does. So in that sense, I feel like it'd be easier. Yeah, I agree. And he's actually came out with several books that helped support unseen realm in a more, I don't want to say rational way, that's the wrong word, but a coherent way for normies. Yeah, like supernatural. Yeah, supernatural is one of them.

I'm drawing a blank on, I'm looking at the shelf over here, if I have it up there, I don't think I do. I see he has the companion book for, I've had over there for, okay, you know. That's a good one. Yeah, it must be in storage. He also has angels as well. Yeah, angels is great. I have that as well. Yeah, but anyways. So where are we going? We just haven't trailed. I said we weren't doing rabbit trails today, man. And you said, well, I made HD and I'm like, oh, shoot.

It's all good. Two of us, man. We're going down this rap trail and I was planning on talking about this. I'm just going to jump and go back. We're already talking about it. It's so funny because I was like, oh, I'm going to present this coherence step by step. We're just going to the craziest stuff right up front. Yeah, we got it. We got it.

When you come to my house, we got to get the crazy out right away. That's right. Yeah. It's the Merkle way. So genetics. There is this, we're talking about angels, talking about them having kids, we're talking about them. This potentially being what's going on. You can start studying like Nephilim bloodline, how does that affect stuff? I've been reading a lot of stuff and realizing that when you look at the monstrous races,

The consistency throughout it is that is the concept of physical deformity. Because when you, if you read, and there's a lot of literature on the monsters races, when you're reading this kind of stuff, they're going to be like, oh yeah, here's a guy with no head in his face in his chest. Well, that's wild. Here's a guy with a dog head. Well, that's wild. But then there's stuff that's like, oh, you know, semi-swin. You're like, oh, well,

We have those. We have those. That's a thing, right? And then it's like, oh, yeah. One-eyed person's like, well, that's actually also a modern physical deformity.

And then it will talk about polydactylate, right? And having six fingers, six toes. That's also. And of course, you know, first chronicles 20 says that's literally an ethylene trait. And so you can connect these dots and realize like, I think a lot of human deformities. I don't even know how many. Who knows? Maybe it's all of them.

I wonder how much of human physical deformities actually come from the corruption of the Nephilim bloodline in the human race, because you can very easily connect to these dots and see that these deformities are pointing back to the Nephilim. The sixth finger is very easy, very cut and dry. But then when you're looking at these other monsters' races, it's like, oh, yeah, well,

Cyclops, like one eye and you're a giant, that's an ethylene, but we still have people who have one eyes, like I wonder if that's connected, you know, and we still have people who are born as giants, but they don't live as long. Well, neither do the kids with one eye. Why is it that over time people who have these deformities are dying sooner and sooner and sooner and sooner? I'm not totally sure, but I am seeing this connection there. And a lot of these, a lot of these deformities

connecting to these master's races, make you wonder, wait a minute, what if it's just all the same thing? We can look at it and say, oh, well, these ones are real and these ones aren't. But what if we're wrong? What if they're all the same category? What if the deformities are more spiritual than we thought they were? And what if the spiritual crazy stuff is more physical than we thought it was, right? And it's actually in the middle. And so this is one of the things that really opened my mind to that, that concept because other than the stuff I just mentioned,

I was dismissing a lot of this for a while, but and I mentioned this to you. This actually goes back to we were talking about the when you when you spoke in Utah. Yeah.

when you called me that day and you were like, oh, hey, can you send me some of the stuff you have? I was in the middle of teaching in class at our school. And fortunately, they were taking a test for it. So it was like, OK, that's fine. So I stepped out and I was like, what's going on? And when you asked about that, and then we talked a little bit more about stuff we might talk about later, I had mentioned, I'm like, oh, yeah, there's this thing I came across that's about

these conjoined twins, where one head is a human head and one head is a dog.

I don't know if you remember, but I mentioned that and you were like, well, for sure, talk about that because that's crazy. So this is something that I came across. There are a lot of these different writings that I'm talking about in Cyclopedias and history books that include illustrations. And I'll send you guys an image so you can throw that up Jack. But there are a lot of these different illustrations of Siamese twins, where one head is a human head and the other head is actually a dog.

That blows a lot of paradigms out of the water because it's like, well, hold on. It's not even just a separate race. It's like, this would mean that the genetics would be in the human race because what they're saying is this is just a normal woman who just has a child and is like, what is that? And a lot of them grew up and had lives. Now, this is not common. It was rare.

But because it was rare, it was a big deal. And so they would include it in these different books. So one example is from the 17th century. I'm probably going to say this name wrong, but Fortunio Lachete. He wrote the monstorum natural, which means like on the origin of monsters. So on the origin of monsters, 17th century book, you can find it in like the rare book collection kind of stuff.

There's this page, again, we'll throw it up on the screen, but there's this page that's talking about this exact deformity, and it compares the two, like it literally puts up a person next to just a dog. That's like standing upright. And then it shows the Siamese twin where it's like, this is fully human, but then just the head is a dog.

Um, that part's absolutely wild. And when it goes into detail, it just says, Oh yeah, there was this, you know, Duke who had this wife and she had this child and it was weird. And that was, you know, that was wild. And it just moves on. And similar thing in some, in some of these others, um, by Giovanni Battista.

in 1585. He writes this book on monsters. It's called Monsters from All Parts of the Ancient and Modern World, versus Modern World was a couple hundred years ago. But he depicts the same thing, and it's like they're dressed in monk garb.

And you have, again, Simon's twin, they're conjoined at the hip, and you have the head of a dog and one the head of a human on the other. And then the other one, which is an example from a book that I bring up a lot, it's one that I have a rare copy of. I'm super proud of having a copy of it. But it's a Nuremberg Chronicle from the 15th century.

Um, and that I had read some of and, and connected dots cause that's kind of the, I give you pull up what could be, you can put in the science actually, like the picture that you see is from Nuremberg. Okay. That's kind of like the go to picture. Um, and so you can read about that.

But it also, what it brings up later on in the book that I only came across more recently is the same thing. It has these two people, they're in monk garb. So it's like, you know, why are they wearing those clothes? I don't know, it doesn't tell us. But all it says is a woman bore a monster, double bodied, having a human face in the front and a dog face in the back, and it just moves on.

It's like, yeah, that's what happened in this year of 1000, whatever. Completely normal. It's like, oh, yeah, that's something that happened. Wow. Yeah. So I was just going to say, like, this is something that is genuinely hard for me to.

believe, but when I look at them like, okay, if this is a thing, that means that this is genetic. That means that like, you know, if I'm to believe that this is likely connected to the Nephilim, that means the Nephilim bloodline, those genetics are in the pool somewhere.

where people have the potential to maybe have kids who just like they have the potential to have. I'm not trying to freak anybody out. You're not going to do it. You're not going to. I don't think you're going to have a kid like maybe it's possible. But like, like people still have a Cyclops child, like people still have, you know, what's his name, Robert?

Wadlow, I think it was. It was like the last giant who was like nine foot, whatever tall. Yeah. He was like eight, nine or something better. Yeah, something like that. So like super tall. And he died young, but from like an infection. So it wasn't because of how tall it was. It was because of how tall it was. Interesting. But.

They do say that like there was a lot of physical ailments that came from it, like not malnutrition. He didn't exercise enough. So like he had a lot of atrophy and it was really hard for him to stay and he had to lean on things a lot. So I don't know how much of that is like he just needed exercise. I don't know. But whatever it was, you know, life was rough for him and I do feel bad for him. But there are a couple of other people not going to go into it because it's on rabbit trouble. If you look it up, it's funny because people like giants can't exist. I'm like, literally the Guinness Book of World Records has so many giants in there.

They're a thing. It shouldn't even be debatable. Anyways, so you look at that and say, OK, this seems like the same thing where every now and then there's this rare moment where the gene kicks in. Someone has a kid and it's like, whoa, what is that? And that's something that comes up in a lot of literature. Do you ever see? I think it was.

It was, what was it? It was an NBA player, that's what it was, Mike Conley. His wife is white and blonde and he's a black guy and their kid came out looking white and blonde.

If you were like, oh, you better get a DNA test. And it's like she didn't cheat on. It was just the genes that kicked in. It happens. And it makes you wonder, man, Jersey Devil story. You ever hear the origins of that? Yes. Do you want to talk about that? Sure. Let's talk about, because what I'm thinking is, wasn't it something about how

like it was a normal family. The 13th child came out looking like I had like I had half a head of a horse and a half of a goat. And it was like this devil creature, you know. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. So, excuse me.

I was reading stuff by, um, do you know, Lauren Coleman? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So he, he claimed that he kind of disproved the Jersey devil thing. Next topic. I know. No, I'm like, I don't know. I don't want to hear this. I'm just curious. Cause he, his whole thing was he was like, yeah, I looked into it and it seemed like it was actually a really good ploy by real estate moguls. We're trying to get people out of the town to buy up.

I don't know if that's true, but that's what he said. So I've always been kind of curious about that. Is that the case? Is it not the case? I don't know. Does Lauren Coleman put weight into dog-headed people and creatures? I actually just went to his museum a couple of weeks ago. Really? The International Museum of Cryptozoology. Where's that at, Maine or something? Portland, Maine. Portland, Maine, yeah. They're actually about to build, I was talking to the staff, they're actually about to build a way bigger one. I forget where, but nearby, still in Maine.

but closer where he lives, not in Portland. And there is stuff there on Dogman. He doesn't go into it as much. I'm trying to get ahold of him. I've been reaching out, and I talked to the staff that I was hoping I could run into him there, but I talked to him. I was like, hey, how can I get ahold of fluency, because I'd really like to talk to him, because he's one of the last really legitimate cryptysuologists. The guys got degrees and all that stuff.

He, I like his approach. Um, he's always like, look, it's not because people are like, what do you believe? He's like, it's not about a belief. It's a matter of evidence. So he's always focused on like, it's just about like, is there evidence? Okay. Maybe there's no evidence. Probably not. Like, I don't know, but he doesn't rule things out either. And so he's gone on. He's, he's proved some things to be real and he's disproved others to, to not. Um, and the rest of them, he leaves in the gray area and the document are in the gray area. So.

He sees a lot of that as like, maybe probably not. But that being said, you want to make a black and white form. Well, I just know, I want to ask, I'm really curious. Am I okay? So like you're well educated on this. This is something you do. What are methods that you would apply? If you apply those methods to the things I've found, what would you say? That's what I really want to hear from you. Like what would you say to all of this evidence connecting all these dots? Because

There's so many modern arguments because scholars, here's the thing guys, like most people aren't talking about dog headed people, but the nerds and universities like Harvard and Cambridge are. They talk about these things and there's academic articles on these things. It's not nearly as much as other stuff, but it's still there and it's still coming out. It is actually kind of increasing just a little bit. So they're talking about it, but they're talking about it as, oh, people were dumb. They misidentified stuff. It was probably just baboons or stuff like that.

I look at it and I go, okay, how does that hold up against when you put all the evidence together? Because we talked last time, I'm like, yeah, you guys are saying about Boone's and the father of virtual zoology for our humans, who I'm actually a big fan of.

In his book, he talks about the sinuscephaly. He dresses it head on. But he says, oh, I think it was a misidentification. I think it was actually this tribe of monkeys over here. He thought it was baboons as well. And it wasn't exactly baboons, but he thought that it was probably monkeys. And he points out Teasius. He points out Pliny of the Elder. He points out, I think, Megathenes as well, probably because

Pliny mentions those two. So maybe that he just read plenty and he got the other two from that. But then he goes on to say, oh, but, you know, I went to this region, I like to talk to these people, looked at this stuff and it's like it was probably this monkey that they confused and he points to the fact like, well, because it mentions the tail and it mentions the, like the long beard and whatever. And that looks like this monkey.

I think maybe he only read Pliny the Elder because as we talked about last time, he just describes a whole nation of 120,000 people. He describes in great detail their hygiene practices, the clothes that they wore, the things that they that they bought and sold and made and traded and like great detail. And there's just no way that you would say that about a monkey. And so you come to these logical conclusions where like, okay, this person is claiming this.

Either they're lying, right? Either they've completely made it up, or it's not a monkey. You know, like that's what I'm seeing when I'm looking at this. Like you're either a liar, or if you're telling the truth, it's not a monkey, so what is it? So, and when you apply that logic to all these different sources that we're seeing, it's like, okay, well, it can't be this, okay, well, it can't be that, okay, well, it can't be that, because all these different sources are, you know, like playing Sudoku, right? It's like, it's eradicating these other possibilities, process of elimination.

The only things you're left with is, you know, I'm sure some people disagree with, but from what I can tell, because there are so many angles that are covered from all the different writings, I'm more or less left with two options. Mass hysteria across thousands of years in every language and every nation across the world, which seems unlikely.

Everyone or yeah, I'll go out. I'll say three because the other one may be that everyone in the world has always been lying for thousands of years

That seems even less likely, so I wasn't even really gonna bring it up. Or that this is legitimately a thing. And it legitimately being a thing, there's some wiggle room there. Some people are like, well, what if it's real people, but they're just a little deformed in the face, so they're calling them dog face. So, well, that doesn't hold up because you have these writings that are describing in detail, this is how long their teeth are, and this is how long their snout is, and it's like really emphasizing the snout. So, it's not that, right?

I'm, for me personally looking at all the evidence I'm left between like the whole world is, is deceived and it has been deceived for thousands of years and maybe that's demonic. Okay. Sure. I'll hold that as possibility. Or like this is a thing. And again, I still hold everything loosely, but that's why I, I, that's why I was like staying up at night. And that's why I kind of struggle with this concept because I, I can't disprove it.

that makes sense. I'm like, I'm not bold enough to say concrete 100% if someone asked me the street, are they real? I'd say probably. I'd say, no, no, are they real or not? I'd say probably because I'm a very, like, we don't have one in the cage. Like, okay, I get it. That is the only 100% concrete proof because there is deception. There's demonic stuff out there.

It's hard for me to say that, honestly, looking at all of the evidence, looking at all of the writings, looking at everything that's going on. And that goes back to time. OK, we don't have one in a cage.

What if they don't have one in the cage thousand years from now and they're going to be in the same spot we're in now because you said was it hundreds or whatever years ago was they had a body of a Seder and they even put salt on it to preserve the body after it died. Like they had something on the table at one point right we don't have it now and we're back to the same thing of saying well maybe it was as I doubt it though is probably just mythical creature.

And back then, they're like, no, it's right here. And so no, we don't have one on the table right now, but if we had one on the table right now, future generations are gonna be the same boat that we're in right now. We have to make a leap at some point and say, okay, just because we don't have the body doesn't mean that this is impossible because it would negate hundreds, thousands of years of history of people saying, no, we did have a body right here. We saw them, you know? Well, what are you supposed to do with all the people that come on your show?

And they're like, I've seen one. And I have literally, like the people who talk about you can tell you're traumatized by people. I don't know. I mean, everybody has their own thought process on things and stuff, but I mean, I just for me personally, I just go to.

is it kind of what you were just saying? Is it possible? Okay, mathematically, probably possible where everybody is lying or really, really dumb and misidentifying things and you know, the up close personal interactions with this stuff. I mean, talking face to face, it almost swallowed me whole kind of thing. You know, like episode 335 is a classic one. Like he said, he literally said on that episode, it was so close, he could look down the back of its throat.

You don't get much closer than that. Are all those people lying or really dumb? For my simple brain, it doesn't compute. I'm like, I don't think so. No. Are some people lying? For sure. For sure. Are hoaxes a thing? 100%.

Are we just did we just did an episode a few weeks ago, the art of the hoax where I have the guy who runs Instagram account, Squatch Me Now. He his friend Brock is like six, seven, six, eight. And when he puts on a Bigfoot costume, he's over seven feet tall and

and they actually, this is one of their things, is that they're trying to show and understand how hard is it to actually hoax good footage. And he just so happens to have this giant of a human being. But like, is that a thing? Yeah, yeah, that's a thing. But is it a thing for every single case? I mean, where we're over 700 episodes on this show now, and I'm just a drop in a bucket of stories out there. It's like, are they all

lying and just really dumb people. Mathematically, probably possible. But in my simple brain, I don't think so many. In my simple brain. There's this guy Paul the Deacon, who in the eighth century AD, he was a Benedictine, I say that wrong, Benedictine monk, scribe historian, and he mostly wrote about the Lombards, which is like a Germanic tribe that like,

occupied a lot of Italy. This is actually a hoax. But this is a pretty cool takeaway from it. So he says that the Lombard military heard that the invaders were coming and they're like, we can't take them. So what do they do? They spread rumors saying that the sinuscephaly, they hired a whole army of sinuscephaly.

and that they were camping with them. So what did they do? They went around and they lit fires for a bunch of fake camps. So that when they came, they would see, oh, wait, there really are a whole bunch of camps. This hoax doesn't work unless you believe that there could be a whole army of dog-headed warriors. And here's the thing, it worked. Being to hire invading army turned around and literally ran for the hells. They were like, we are not fighting those things.

So they left. Wow. Wow. It was a hoax, but it had so much weight because the belief in existence of those creatures was 100%.

There was no, in the 8th century and 9th century, there's so much material from the centuries because people, that's when we get all these monks who are like reaching out to them. They're like, okay, we're trying to evangelize to these guys. And they're like, how do we, that's, you know, in the 9th century, it's not very long after, you know, Paul Deacon, we have what we'll talk about later. But, you know, Ratramnus of Corby was talking to Rembert of Hamburg Bremen and he writes in this letter and they go in detail where, you know,

remember, it's out there on the field in Scandinavia, which by the way, doesn't have baboons, so it's not baboons. So he's in Scandinavia and he's meeting these creatures and he's getting reports of them and how they live their lives and everything. He's reaching back and he's like,

Do we ventilize to these guys? Can they be saved? Are they from the line of Adam? What's going on here? Having that correspondence and the letters is absolutely wild. That's from this time. Everybody was convinced by a lie from far off lands. It was in Europe. People were seeing them. In Europe, people are mentioning, maybe we'll still get to it, but I was going to talk about Cicero. Cicero is a famous

The famous orator, lawyer, historian guy, he's the first person to say that Herodotus was the father of history. This man was super well respected in Rome. He was high up there in the National Islands of society. And he and his letter to Atticus

I should probably pull this up so I can give the citation for it. But he in his letter to Atticus, it's in, yeah, Epistolate at Atticum, which means letters to Atticus and Latin. But if you look that up, you'll find it. And he says in his sixth letter,

He just randomly mentions this. He's like, oh, yeah. So he's actually gossiping. I love this. He's like, oh, yeah, I was told this is this is actually a word for word quote. I was told all this by P. Wettius, the last name, a hairbrained fellow enough, but yet an intimate friend of Pompeys.

with two chariots, a carriage and horses, and a sedan, and a large suite of servants, of which last, if Curio had carried

his carried his law, he would have to pay a toll of a hundred, uh, sestory a piece. So what he's just saying is, okay, this guy who's a total in that case, like showed up and he had this huge caravan with him. And he's like, you know, if our friend, what's his name gets his law passed through, he's like, he's paying a hefty toll for bringing all this stuff through. So that's what he's saying there. Then he says, there was, uh, there was also in a chariot, a dog headed. Now here's what the English translation says, a dog headed baboon.

You can probably guess that's not actually what it said in the letter. It says sinus habla. Is that word? It uses specifically the word sinus definitely. He says, as well as I just lost the place.

as well as some wild donkeys. I never saw him work stravigant fool, not the sign of saffle talking about his friend. He says, but the cream of the whole of this is that he stayed in late to see you with Pompeius, Willardess. And there he deposited its properties and coming to see me and blah, blah, blah. And he goes on to just kind of talk this guy down, be like, oh, this guy is such a nut. But.

Part of why he brings it up is like, oh, like this guy's a moron. Like why is he a moron? Like what is he doing that's so dumb? Because he has a caged dog.

a dog me and creature who's trying to break out of his cage on this chair and he's like, what kind of fool brings us into the middle of the city, right? Now, what you could very easily do is you could read and go, oh, you know, hold on, Seth, like, let's be reasonable here to which I would agree we should be reasonable. And say, well, you know, you know, it's saying it was long there with donkeys. So what if, you know, what if it really was a baboon?

And the problem is, linguistically, he didn't say baboon. Baboon doesn't come up. And this is what I run into a lot. But these things, you find something, they'll say something and that's not what happened. Really, the actual language said this and you're like, that's totally different. Totally different. And it's the bias. It's like, oh, well, you know, scholars are translating and scholars believe that they were baboon. So they will add baboon all over the place and just say, oh, it was a baboon. It's like, that's literally not what he said. Here's part of why we can so easily say that this was for sure a dog headed person.

Cicero, red Herodotus. He's the one who famed him and called him the father of history. He knew that the Greek word, which is really a kind of Kefeloy, or kind of Kefeloy, but in Latin, which is what he wrote it in, sinicephally, he knew that that word meant a race of dog-headed men. We're talking about a lawyer, an order, a speaker. He doesn't misplace his words. He's like, well, yeah, I meant to say it was a monkey.

but I specifically used this academic term for dog-headed race of men. It just doesn't line up. Those are the things that we can see. This is a personal letter. He's not writing to convince someone. This is a well-respected, well-educated, well-spoken,

individual, high up in society, who's just talking about gossip to his friend. And he even says in the letter, he's like, you know, I love talking about gossip. He's just gossiping with his friend. And he brings up this topic and just wins the passage. He's just like, oh, yeah, this guy's an idiot. He just brought a dog headed person over on his cage in Moozone.

It's the most normal thing in the world that someone's like, oh yeah, that exists, but why would you bring it into town? Because that's ridiculous. Why do you have him caged? When you look at that, that concept of being caged, you can even point that back to what we talked about earlier with Phil Storges, where he's talking about a cedar being captured and caged and being dragged over to the king of Constantinople.

Apparently, people were doing that. That's wild, man. That's wild. This is so interesting because

You're saying that basically there was inserted words, you know, and when you look back at it, it's not exactly what it, you know, and it goes, this is kind of, you know, rabbit hole. So we're going to just circle the top of the hole. We're not going to actually jump down it. Okay, but in second Samuel, 21 verse 16,

It's talking about, they're on a battlefield and there's a Refiam, a form of Nephilim, ish by Ben Benab. I think it was a descendant of Goliath. One of the descendants of giants who spear weighed 300 shekels of bronze and who was armed with

a new sword thought to kill David. In the original, it does not say sword. It was wielding a new weapon. It was a new modern warfare invention. It was like, okay, so what are we talking about? We're talking about the dude, David, who has seen everything on the battlefield, and there's something new.

Yeah, like what is they constructed this is so wild because like, okay, giant slayer and the giants are like, we have to forge a new weapon to take out the giant. Yeah. Like, like, there's these weapons and he's beating these weapons. We need to create some kind of alchemy chemical weapon to take out this.

thinking man and back by God. It's just, when I wrote a whole article about that years ago, I'm thinking probably 2016, 2017, and the backlash I got from my fellow Bible college classmates and stuff, because when I was in Bible college, first of all, I didn't graduate. I was not the best student. And so they just look at me as this moron that couldn't pass, and I am a moron.

I changed over the years, and I looked into things, and I forget what they actually said because they were commenting on it and stuff, but it was very much based on, we know 1 plus 1 equals 2. Therefore, this equation

Reasons to believe means this and it's like, but does it when you adopt the supernatural worldview and overlay it onto the ancient culture, you know, and it just it changes the whole thing. And I just find that interesting that like we see this pattern of.

making things fit for the audience of the day, when the original writers said, no, no, no, that's not at all a cute story, but no. It's interesting. And I think it's important to point out that.

I've had to work on this even for myself. It's important for us to have grace on both sides. Because everyone is trying to do the best with what they have. I was reading a book. I honestly couldn't even tell you which one it was.

Because I read too many things, but I was reading something. It was actually modern and there was talking about this perspective that can be useful. The way that God is looking down on us and it's like, oh, that's cute. And there's a child that's playing with their blocks and their dad doesn't show up. And they're like, hey,

Like, why isn't my dad here? Why isn't he playing with me? He told me he'd play with me and the dad isn't, you know, EMT or whatever, and he's saving someone's life.

The dad gets home. Well, all that kid knows is a whole world is like, you know, let's say it's two or three year old. All they know is that why wasn't my dad here and then dad arrives and it's like, why have you wronged me? And we can do that same thing with the Lord where we're like, oh, like we, I'm working with the pieces I have. All the information that I have is that he was supposed to be here and he wasn't here. Therefore, bad dad. Like the same logic. Like, well, I've walked to do it. This is logical.

I have a bad dad. What's the truth of the matter? You have a great dad. He was saving someone's life. That's huge. And God is doing that all the time where he's working all the timing out. Yeah, I know you want this right now, but not now. Because if I do it now, it's going to affect that person, which affects that person, which affects that, you know, he's got the whole thing. And so he's working at this higher level. That's why Bob says that your ways are higher than always. How am I supposed to? I should trust you because you know way better than I do.

And so in a similar way, well, in a different way, but in a somewhat similar way, we should have grace on other people who have different paradigms who don't have as many pieces to the puzzle, right? Because I understand I didn't have those pieces before. Like literally me six years ago listening to me now would be that this guy is a nutcase, right? He's lost his mind. But I have more pieces now. Does that mean I'm correct about everything? No, because I still don't have as many pieces as I could have.

And so there's all of us have a certain number of pieces. All of us, there's more that we could have. We're just trying to do the best with what we have. And so it helps me have grace for people who have less and helps me have grace with myself recognizing that other people have more pieces than I do. And so when I realized I have something wrong, I update the blog article, right? When I have something as wrong, I say, Hey, new comment, my bad. It's actually this, you know, it's like, I'm, I'm going to do my best to have the answers. But when I find out I'm wrong,

If I'm going to ignore it, that's a problem. The best thing we can do is get as many pieces as we can, recognize when we're wrong, and move forward from there. That's what got us into this mess as a culture and society to begin with. People who have thoughts and opinions on things find out they're wrong and won't acknowledge it and just keep going with it because...

It's too late down. We're too far down the rabbit hole of my personal conviction and belief on something. I don't want to hear any other information on it. This is set in stone for me. Do you want to hear about a crazy weapon that shows up in the Bible? Yeah. It's in Ezekiel 13. Do you already know this? Talk to me. Let's go. Okay.

I feel like I bring this up frequently with my friends and they're like, what? So, Ezekiel 13, 18 through 20. This is in, just happens to be in NASB, 1995.

And say, this is God telling Ezekiel to say, thus says the Lord, woe to the women who sow magic bands on all wrists and make veils for the heads of persons of every stature to hunt down lives. So they've made magic bands to hunt down people's lives. Will you hunt down the lives of my people, but preserve the lives of others for yourselves?

For handfuls of barley and fragments of bread, you have profaned me to my people, to put to death some who should not die, and to keep others alive who should not live. By your lying to my people who listen to lies, thus says the Lord God, behold, I am against your magic bands, by which you hunt lives as if they were birds.

and I will tear them from your arms and I will let them go even those lives whom you hunt as birds." He's talking about the Egyptians making magic wristbands that can apparently hunt down people and extract their souls somehow. Holy crap.

What is that? Oh, man, brain breaking. Okay. Wow. All right. So all right. That's a thing in Egyptian mythology, by the way. They claimed they had those. It's in Egyptian mythology. Oh, yeah. Having this wristband, like keeps you from going to hell or this wristband, which like can store number of souls to pay the cost of whatever, like

as pretty wild. To suck the souls? I mean, it seems to, I added the words suck. I mean, but it's saying to take the swords and to keep someone alive is not supposed to be alive and to kill someone who's not supposed to die, right? And to be fair, he also lumps in like part of that is through listening to these lies.

But it's sandwich and the whole discussion is about these magic bands that God has actually again. He's against these magical bands that they use to hunt people down, hunt down their lives, which the word is soul, hunt down their lives as if they were birds. Oh my gosh. Like you don't fully even know like what that means. Me neither, but like dude, so advanced technology, bro.

Yeah, but all right. I'm trying to think of how I'm already going crazy. Sorry, Tony. Yeah, but it's all right. It's all right. They're used to it, I guess. Episode 637, I called it Soul Trappers.

Oh, I didn't listen to a bro. And then I had her back on recently for episode 700. Her name's friend. She's on X and long, long story short. She in 2020, when everything was shut down, I think she's out in Idaho.

She's a former, she's a retired police officer, and she started deciding to journal right down her dreams. And through a process of revelation, she realized that these are not dreams that she's going through. These are things that are actually happening to her. And she has well over 250 entries at this point since 2020.

And one of the things that she talked about on that first episode was that these beings, these entities that she's dealing with, I'm not sure if she talked about it emphatically or she felt like, no, I'm sure she talked about it emphatically, like she's experienced this not personally, but they have a technology.

that can suck the soul out of people. There's a whole other thing that comes up.

I'm so glad you're here. Just for that alone. Just for that alone. And I can't wait to send that to her. I'm going to text her that. Oh my gosh, dude. But like, all right. So. She said technology. What you're saying here is magical bands. Yeah. Technology, magical alchemy. Like. Same thing. Dude. Dude. Yeah. Like.

I know this episode is not supposed to be about this. My brain is like, okay, you just had this whole other thing around full circle match the pieces now. I'm like, I'm trying. I'm trying. I'm matching the pieces, but I can't do it right now. So we're going to move on, but holy crap, dude. Holy crap. You said you said the new weapon. And then I was like, oh, yeah, as you go 13, I pulled it up. It's wild. It's pretty wild. I think about it.

More often than I showed, it just pops to my brain. I'm like, what is that? These are the things that catch you up at night. I'm not sleeping at night. I'm not sleeping at night at all. It's not happening. I'm just going to replay, replay, replay. Wow, wow stuff. How do we get back to Dogman after that? Well, I'll just non-psych, but I'll just jump right back in. Because something that I want to talk about last, I said I would talk about last time, but I didn't bring up.

was, I'm trying to decide, should I do something that's, maybe, no, I'll do this and then we can end on Alexander the Great House then.

Okay. Yeah. I mean, we're just going to keep the recording going. So we're going to do hit with the first half. We're going to do historical and then what the second half are going to do what? More Catholic Church and centuries. The history of that. Okay. So we're going to do that. That's going to be an overtime, but we're just going to. I don't want to. Okay. We'll just keep. I just got you. Jack will split it because like this chemistry is great. I don't want to lose it. All right. So yeah. So them not being likens them not being werewolves. So

I was assuming I was like, oh, this is an obvious difference, right? These are creatures that are born live and die this way. Very different from a person who transforms into one. But apparently. Unsurprisingly, I'm not the first person to think of this, but apparently there are plenty of writings where people who write about the talk had to race the science. They're like, oh, yeah, but like werewolves, that's ridiculous. They didn't believe in werewolves, but they did believe.

in dog-headed people. They didn't believe in the shape-shifting aspect. I do believe in the shape-shifting aspect of demonic stuff I've seen. But these people didn't. So this is really interesting because to anyone who's like, oh, well, they're just believing in folklore and fables, actually, they're not. They're saying, no, that's ridiculous. This, I know to be true, which is fascinating. It adds a lot of credibility.

um, histories by Herodotus book four, um, same book where he talks about the sin of cephalate. He then goes on to say, these men, it would seem are wizards for it is said of them by the Scythians and by the Hellens, the Greeks who are settled in Scythian, but in the Scythian land that once in every, in every year, each of the, I don't know how to say this knee or I,

becomes a wolf for a few days and then returns again to his original form. And then he says, from my part, I do not believe them when they say this, but nonetheless, they say it and swear it more over.

So this guy who previously was like, oh, yes, anyways, there's there's elephants and lions and dog-headed people. And then just keeps going, right? He's like, that's normal. Doesn't make any comment on it. Then it's like, oh, yeah, these guys claim they can turn to wolves. That's ridiculous. I don't believe that. So it's like, so these guys have this sense of this is obviously true. Well, that's crazy. That couldn't be true. You know, and it's like,

What to monitor to us? It's like, okay, we put those in the same category. Well, for that, I'm like, no, completely different category. This is obviously true. But werewolf, that's crazy. Similar thing with plenty of the elder. He also talks about it in his book, Natural History. He's like, yeah, the sign is definitely there for sure thing. Well, in this, in this section, in

Natural History, book 8, chapter 34, lines 2 through 4. He says, that men have been turned into wolves and again restored to the original form, we must confidently look upon as untrue, unless indeed we are ready to believe all the tales which for so many ages have been found to be fabulous.

But as the belief of it has become so firmly fixed in the minds of the common people, as to have caused them the term, excuse me, the term verisypalis.

Yeah. Yeah. That's right. That's correct. For sure. Absolutely. To be used as a common form of impreaction. I will here point out its origin. And he's just like, oh, this, they made it up blah, blah, blah. So that's his, that's again, his claim. Guy who believes in the existence of dogated people is like, oh, but that's ridiculous. Why would we believe that people could turn into one or specific or sometimes specifically turning into a wolf?

City of God, this is by St. Augustine, book 18, chapter 18. He says, indeed, we ourselves, when in Italy, heard such things about a certain region, there were the land ladies of inns imbued with these wicked arts were said to be in the habit of giving to such travelers as they chose, or could manage something in

a piece of cheese by which they were changed on the spot. So they eat the cheese, change on the spot into beasts of burden and carried whatever was necessary and where restored to their own form when that when the work was done. Sorry, I mean, it's like this get me guys. Yet their mind did not become bestial, but remained rational and human. Just as a Pelius in the books, he wrote with the title,

with the title of the golden donkey. That was a joke, it's the golden ass. He has told or, or feigned that it applied to his own self. So it's a little confusing how he's saying this, but he's saying this other guy wrote a book and said that this very thing happened to him, right?

On taking poison, he became an ass and while retaining his human mind. These things are either false or so extraordinary as to be with good reason disbelief. So this is interesting because he's not, he's not completely saying that this cannot be true. We got since like this, either this is just blatantly not true or it's so fantabulous.

then it's reasonable to think it's untrue. I'm like, okay, fair enough. And he says, I cannot therefore believe that even in the body, much less the mind can really be changed into Bisto forms and linomens by any reason, art or power of the demons. That's what I'm saying. Like he just doesn't think that that's a thing.

Um, he then, he then says these things, same chapter, these things have not come to us from persons we ought to deem were unworthy of credit. She's like, that being said, these people respect who are saying this. Says, but from informants, we could not suppose to be deceiving us. Therefore what men say and have committed to writing about the Arcadians being often changed into wolves.

by the Arcadian gods or demons, rather. He's like, well, they're demons. And what is told in song about Cersei transforming the companions of Ulysses? So it's back to Homer. If they really were done, may, in my opinion, have been done in the way that I've said. So basically it's like, okay, okay, I could be wrong because there are really good, credible people who are saying that this stuff can happen.

And then he says, like, this could just be demonic witchcraft seems unlikely, but it could be demonic witchcraft. This is really interesting because he actually brings up Homer as a source. This is one of those things where it's only within the last couple hundred years that we've said, Oh, Homer made up stories. According to everyone ever until recently, not made up stories.

Modern scholars, look, they're good modern scholars. I don't want to poo poo in all of them, right? But there are plenty of modern scholars in the last 100 years that were like, Troy doesn't exist because Homer made up the stories. So Troy isn't real. Then one dude who wasn't a scholar was like, what if I took this book literally when exactly where it, Homer said it was and found Troy? It wasn't even hard. Like he found it.

So the scholars were definitely not boots on the ground. You're not boots on the ground. And that's where a lot of the stuff comes to come into play is, yes, scholars say this or that. And they're like, oh, blah, blah, blah. But they're attic scholars that are up there, and they're attics, and they're typing where they're reading and they're writing. And I appreciate that. I mean, that's more or less I'm doing, or I should have traveled and looked into this stuff. But more or less, that's what I'm doing. The difference here is simply the fact that I'm doing my best to have an open mind here.

and they're looking at this and they're like, well, this couldn't possibly be real. So why even try at all? And I'm going, hey, let's try at all. Let's look a little bit at what's going on because, you know, for me, it's giving me up at night. I'm like, I want to figure out the truth of this situation.

That guy had to forget his name. That guy had the same reaction. He's like, Troy is probably a thing. So he goes out and he finds it. And now we know that Troy was real. It's like, wait, so then how much of it was real? When you read Plato, you read things about Socrates.

Socrates is talking about Homer, and he's saying, oh, yeah, and these things happen. He's quoting it as history. He's not quoting it as a story. And he says, yeah, but some people misinterpret that, and they think that it's the songs that they're singing, or the way that they're singing that somehow, the sirens somehow pulls them off the boat. We say, but in reality, they're just singing spells, and it's the spell that pulls them off.

So he's talking about like his matter of facts. Yeah, they're just singing spells. Everybody knows that. Like, it's those silly people who think that it's just the sound of their voice. And a lot of people would be like, excuse me. Like, what do you mean sirens are real? And it's not that they are magical in and of themselves, but that they are performing witchcraft on the fly.

and speaking spells of these people. This is from Socrates. Somebody that everybody, you know, fans is like, oh yeah, being so logical, so rational, right? He himself professed that he was a sorcerer. He performed magic all the time. He talked about fixed elections.

using magic, using enchanted amulets and stuff like that. He's like, oh, yeah, I helped that guy get his position in. He says this guy says, I'm pretty sure this was memorabilia and by Xenophon talking, quoting Socrates saying, yeah, I helped. What's his name? I forget his name. I helped. What's his name? Get into power by enchanting his amulet or whatever it was. And yeah, now that everybody in the city loves him.

That was magic. Did you hear about recently how the witches were complaining that they were trying to cast spells on Trump leading up to the election? It wasn't working. They're like, the line from Hercules just keeps going through my head when they're trying to cut the silver cord and the cartoon Hercules and like, what?

wrong with these scissors. I can just imagine these witches were like, what's wrong with our spells? Why are they bouncing off this man? That's interesting. I mean, it's just nothing's new under the sun, right? I mean, it's just repeated history that these things happen and it's to be taken more serious than what our modern minds have been taught to take serious. Wow. Socrates even said, he said, well, of course I dabble in, because someone was asking me, like, do you do magic? He said, well, of course I do any reasonable man of science would.

It's like they viewed it as science. He's like, well, yeah, I'm dutiful. I pray to the gods, right? I have a relationship with the gods, demons. I have a relationship with these guys. It's like I pray, I perform witchcraft. How would I be in the high-reshelon of society if I wasn't a good mathematician and philosopher and scientist and magician? Like, come on. It's just what you do.

But people remove that. I mean, if you get this guy, this isn't a secret. Just buy the books, buy memorabilia by Xenophon. Xenophon is a general and a historian. Xenophon and Plato are the two main guys who wrote about Socrates. I was just reading that because I wanted to read it. But I came across it and I was like, what?

And there's so much stuff like that, where it's like, this was the world, the world always recognized magic. The Bible recognized magic all over the place, right? It's like magic has always been real. These crazy creatures that the Bible talks about, that other people talking about, they've always been real. It's always been talked about. And then what happens is the last couple of years to get, unfortunately, the ironically named enlightenment. And the enlightenment was really a blending on everyone's eyes, the eyes of their minds. It was really

And I understand it too. I'm also not trying to be like, oh, I do believe we're in an evil age, but I'm not just trying to be like, oh, it's this person's fault or that person's fault. It was understandable. We got a whole bunch of wars. That's when we got all these different. We got the industrial revolution. We had the American revolution. We had the French revolution. There are tons of revolutions, tons of wars. Nobody had time to write books anymore about magic and monsters. Right. Understandable. But unfortunately, during that period of time,

spirituality got ripped out of things because then we included other things like materialism and Darwinism and all these other things start popping in that even though all of those were legitimate human efforts to try to further progress of science.

Isaac Newton played into this. They were all just trying to be enlightened. They were trying to find the truth. But unfortunately, the natural caveat to that, or consequence rather, was that they ended up going, oh, wait a second, because of Isaac Newton, we don't have to believe that the stars are magical anymore, because we can map them out. We know exactly where it's going to be and when it's going to be there.

we started, as we understood things better, disbelieving. Now, what modern scientists would say is like, yeah, see, it proves that it was never magical in the first place. If it's not magical, why was God literally saying stop worshiping the stars? I didn't allot them to you, allot them.

What do you mean? This is like Deuteronomy four, I think it's like first 19 or something like that. It shows up several times in Deuteronomy. I love your brain, man. It shows up several times in Deuteronomy. Deuteronomy 3289 is kind of like a classic passage that pops up with Michael Heiser and other scholars like him, where they're talking about like God, a lotting the sons of God over the nations.

And when that happens, he's like, no, I allotted those stars. I had a lot of those angels, I had a lot of those principalities over these different nations. You're not supposed to be worshiping them. Stop. He's telling that to Israel and like, wait a minute, are they supposed to be worshiping them? And the answer technically is no.

Right? Because then in Psalm 82, God's like, why are you receiving worship from humans? Stop. Yeah. So he's yelling at everybody. Yeah. It's like, you're old. You're old and everybody's hands. Stop. You're old thing. But yeah, but he's in that narrative, like he's admitting to the fact that there are these gods over these nations, but they were principalies that he put there in place. Those stars are a thing. There is magic going on there, right? There's a reason why they're worshiping them because they're answering their prayers.

They were doing stuff. Look at Plato and Socrates and how they're talking about, yeah, I pray to Apollo and then he literally does magic for me. That stuff happens. Even Plato spoke to the concepts of the gods being allotted. In his book, Tameis and Criti, as he talks about three or four times. Oh, yeah, when the gods were allotted. Now, he views it as the gods allotted it amongst themselves. God says, no, I allotted them. I put them there and then they fell away from me.

Plato is like, oh, yeah, the gods, a lot of themselves. They took the different regions and they became, you know, what we refer to in Ephesians, you know, sex is the principalities and powers, right? But he's viewing them as, oh, these are our gods, you know, same old thing. When you read that, it's like one for one. It's totally lining up with what Moses is talking about in Deuteronomy.

It's totally lining up. When you look at all these dots connect, they all connect and it's like, yes, we can look at things and we can better understand them, but that doesn't somehow make them no longer supernatural. Just like as we study anatomy, that doesn't suddenly mean I don't have a spirit in a soul. I better understand my body because of those things, but I also know that me personally, I have had an out of body experience. I've been pulled out of my body and I know for a fact,

that my body is not the only part of me.

I've had too many supernatural experiences to believe that. You've been pulled out of your body? I was, yeah. Really? Yeah, by a demon. So you've said, you've been pulled out of your body, you've been pinned against the wall by a demon. We're over here talking about historical dog, man. I feel like I got a whole episode with you and your experiences too. Yeah. Too many to talk about, but I've experienced things all growing up. And I really believe it's because when I was a child, I was possessed before I was saved. Really? Yeah. Yeah.

I heard the gift that keeps giving things. Yeah, it is a little wild. My life has been nuts, but you're only what? 25, 26, 25. Yeah. So they, I had too many experiences growing up where.

demons would show up. They would pin me against the wall, pin me against the bed. I couldn't speak all that sort of stuff. What happened? Um, literally just for years, for years and years and years and years. Um, and it would happen all time. I just lost count so long ago, but recently things have been nice. Things have been good. Um, Jesus. Well, no, I know, even as a believer is his thing, like, like, because what happened is like before, you know, I wasn't saved. Um, I got saved pretty young, but before I was saved, um, I,

I would say things and do things I literally was trying not to i was like i'm going to go in this room and my body was like no. And i would do something else i for a long time as a kid i did not understand it was when i was older that look back on my word i was literally like that's what i was wow because as a kid i was like why and i was i would try because i was like why does my body never do what i wanted to do. Why do i not say the things i want to say why do i go and say hey mom good morning and i come and i said i hate you yeah.

Wow, how old were you when that was going on? Like six all the way up through seven. We don't even want to look at our children that way. I have a kid that's about to turn seven and I look at him and that that thought, I wouldn't even want to entertain the possibility of that being true. And it's not like it happens all too frequently. For sure. I don't want to freak a bunch of parents out. They're probably just being difficult. Jesus Christ saved you.

But, you know, but like for me, like I can look back and I can say with certainty because now from having all this to my experience that I look back and I go, that was the exact feeling, but I had it. I always had it. It was all the time. You didn't go away. And then when I was saved, I was literally freed from that. It was palpable. All of a sudden I could control my mind. I could control my thoughts. I could say what I wanted to say. It was, I was literally set free from that. So this is where I'm like, yeah, no, I can't doubt God because

What, what, then what was that? What happened, right? And you can come up with whatever, but I'm sorry, I don't believe you because that was my experience. I was me putting my faith in Jesus Christ to save me from that, nothing else. And as I went on and had so many different experiences and I'd have dreams where like I'd go to sleep, have a dream and it wasn't a dream and I'd see the room and I would literally see a demon going at my little brother. And I'd be praying and I'd say like in the name of Jesus, like get out of here.

And i would literally fight for my but he i don't think he knows that wow so i don't i don't think i ever told him that one but dude that's not happened i know so yeah i know these things are real and it's just from the topic. It's because i've seen things that are like different sizes big ones like tiny little ones but also crazy demonic yeah yeah and like as in the three shadow ones.