3 Mindset Shifts To Completely Transform Your Life & Relationships

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this moment moving forward. We have some big guests and content coming up. Make sure you're following and stay tuned to this episode on the School of Greatness. Do you think anyone can have a beautiful, amazing life if they live in a blaming mindset? No.

No, you don't why because what I didn't realize as a young adult is that when you say somebody else whether you mean to do it or not you get the keys to your life. You give them power. They got your whole life in the head because you said you said they didn't do this and because they didn't because they got the keys. Now I'll be honest, the reason why we don't want to take the keys because we got to drive.

We got a drop and I told you today, I was like, I got too much to do. I normally drive. I'm like, I got too much to do. And it felt good to be in the car driven. It felt good. Yeah. Like, I'm going to phone talking to my wife. We have a worship doing our thing, making a couple of business calls. Like, I don't have the responsibility of traffic, paying attention. He moved over and got, I was like, why is he stopping in the middle of?

But it was a trap truck. So, yeah, to move up. I didn't know what was going on because it was the first time in my life that I wasn't really like responsible because I normally drive. And that's why people don't want to drive in their lives. They don't want to be responsible. It's so much easier to say, my life is messed up because you did this while you did that. Once you take the keys, you got to go anything. But I'm going to tell you this.

This is why I like it. While it's more responsibility, it's more freedom. It's more independence, it's more control. Opportunities more. They limit it. But the deliverance when you take the keys. And so I took the keys in my life. That's my thanks. Thanks for not being there for me. You gave me a dog. You gave me a passion. You gave me resilience. You taught me how to make it when the very thing that's supposed to be there for you isn't there for you. And I tell people,

What I want, some kid asked me on the day, he's like, man, wouldn't you say your son is lucky because you're in his life and his mom is in his life? I said, yes and no. I said, yes, he's blessed to have his mom and dad.

But he ain't got that dog. He doesn't have the hunger. My son is a great kid. But he doesn't have to drive. He ain't got the same drive I got. And that drive came without some stuff that I lack. That stuff came from lack. And so I say to anybody, you got to understand it could go either way. But when you take the, you take the, it's like I walk into a school and I ask, how many of y'all 50 kids? How many of you kids in here? A thousand kids? How many of your dads, one in your life, was not living in a house?

90% raise that. And guess what? I automatically can relate to him. That's the Genesee Quad that my daddy wasn't there. That's the effect there. If my father had been there, I might not be able to go in here and relate with my videos and go viral. People are like, OK, maybe if I just had Eric Boyce or if I just scream and I just look past you.

That's not what it is. It's when I speak, you hear it because I've been through what you've been through. And so you recognize that voice, you recognize the pain, you recognize the struggle, but you recognize I overcame it. And that's why you're like, I want to rock with this dude.

because this one ain't some kind of way arrogant the one that's making us feel like, oh, it's okay that you went through this and it's okay that this and it's okay if you don't want to grow and it's okay if you don't want to know what you're hearing from me is a coach that's saying, Jordan, you got six rings in you, but you got to stop playing this way and you got to start playing this way. Kobe, you got great, but you got to do it this way. Serena, you got a Venus, you got a daddy, which Williams is saying, he's not out there just

He's teaching training, but he's also correcting. And so for me, they hear my voice, I'm not letting you get away with murder because greatness is in you. The greatness is in you and now it's time to go to school. It's time to go to work and bring that greatness out of you. So just anybody, anybody could be successful. But as long as you're playing the blame game,

You have, you have given permission, the license, registration, the keys. You give it all over to somebody else. In the day you take it.

is the day that you could start deciding which direction you wanna go. Wow. So that sounds like step one, take the keys back to your life. Take the keys back. What would steps two and three be for setting people up for their ultimate life? Would that beginning process, is it get clear on a goal? Is it start with motivation, start with discipline, like change your habits? What would the next couple steps be to set up the mindset for success? I would say step two. And I don't know why they don't teach this in school.

be your first best friend. You know, like get to know you. We're so busy wanting to be in a community that we don't realize we are a community. Right? And look, I'm not trying to be deep. You know, people could, you know, you believe this, you don't believe this. But what I was taught, you know, in school, especially Catholic school, it seemed like

Adam was by himself first. It doesn't seem like it was like somebody else is like Adam was first and then whatever happened after that. So the first man was by himself. And I think that's important for those of us who study that. Why? Because all of us think we have to have somebody to be somebody.

And his guy started on his, he started his journey on his own before he connected with somebody, whatever. He knew his purpose. You know, he, he walked at his confidence. He walked and a lot of us are going, I hear people say all the time, well, I'm not doing a good life. Why not? I don't have nobody. I'm not in a relationship. I'm saying, you, you're telling me, you know, listen to me very closely. Do you think for one minute,

that getting in a relationship with somebody, it can't be the key because so many people have gotten in relationships and got to have it so they can't be the key. Now, two healthy people, not perfect, but two healthy people coming together. Oh, no, that's different. It's expansive. But guess what has to happen? You've got to be healthy with you.

You could be with this. So we even messing each other up when we have two dysfunctional people trying to connect with each other because we think two functional people don't come together and make each other that it's not going to work. So I just think the first step after the first step is you got to figure out who you are and love you and feel good about you and show up in the room. You and not care what nobody think about you.

And that's why this relationship has worked so well for me over the years because when we're together, it's never been a thing of, why you do that? Or why you do that? Or why you do that? It's always been like, you have a unique set of skills that make you great. You have a unique set. And so we've always focused on what's our unique skills and what do you know that I don't know and how can you help me get there? And so a lot of these young key kids are

joining things they shouldn't join and being with people because they think their happiness is going to come from being with somebody else. And I just think if you be, if eagles aren't trying to, they just are, they're not trying. Lions aren't, what do you think about me? We think about my war. You think I'm too loud when I roar? They're not concerned. And so I think step two, figure out who you are, love you, and step three.

Figure out your North Star and wake up every single day going after your North Star because when you have a North Star, you know, and the people that you love and you spend time with, have a North Star, have a purpose. And look, that purpose might be

We both have people whose purposes that help us with our purpose. They don't necessarily have an individual part. Like, they felt like they were called to help us with our mission. That's it. So we need a North Star so they can know what that North Star is. So that would be my third one. It's like, you've got to figure out what makes you happy. And again, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it. First time I did a behind the scenes coming in here. Just because I was like to my Patreon community, like, yo, y'all need to understand where I am and what's going on.

But I don't, if you follow me on Instagram or TikTok, wherever I'm on, you don't see behind the scenes. I think that's a phenomenal tool to show other people what, but my wife is private. So, so for us, that does not work. She does not want to be seen in a lot of lives. She doesn't want to be in Dubai and stop and go, let's take a, let's document what we're doing. She doesn't like that.

So for some people it works, but I don't have to do that to still find a space, right? There's some people, you know, they do tours, right? I don't do tours. That's not my thing. I used to do them. I don't do them now. There's some people that write books. Some people don't write books. Like it doesn't matter. But what matters is

You have to find a thing that wakes you up at 3 o'clock or 6 o'clock or 10 o'clock. You got to find a thing that brings the life out of you, the joy out of you, the happiness out of you. And you can't do that following somebody else's north side. So my last one would be, man, figure out what you was put on this earth to do. And I mean, every single chance you have to do it. Do it. And when you're not doing it, enjoy your life. My son was like, damn, I'm tired. I said, you're tired.

You've burnt out for what? Look at your mom and dad. You work for the family company. What are you doing? Well, I've been up the last six days working tips for a lot. I said, for what? What would you be doing that for? Like, why wouldn't you take advantage of them? You said, what should I be doing? I said, you should figure out what it is you do. He's a designer, right? You should be designing clothes Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, whenever five, six hours a day.

And then Saturday Sunday or Friday Saturday, because of your family, you should get a trip somewhere and go spend it with a friend. You should go see the, you should go to Italy. You should go to Rome. So you should go to South Africa. So you should go to the Gold Coast in Australia, son. What are you, like you should, what are you doing?

You should work, but a part of work also is, where is your play? You should play. We worked hard. So you could be bad. So don't be like us. We grew up in a working class home. We grew up in Detroit. We grew up in class. You're not a blue collar. So go enjoy your life. Be balanced. So I'm not just saying, find your no star in terms of what you've been called to do for others, but there should be a

healthy amount of time that you spend enjoying your life, you know, and enjoying the little time that you have here. We both know, we won't be doing this podcast a hundred years from now. Sure. We don't know how much longer we have, but I won't be 154 sitting down tight, right? So how much time I have left, I need to work hard and I need to enjoy that time. Absolutely. Those are beautiful, man. I've heard you talk about a concept I want to share in a second.

But I feel like there's a group of people we've been talking to, you've been talking to that are the people that maybe don't have the opportunities they want. They don't have the life they want. They feel like people are holding them down. That's one group. Then there's another group of people, which I feel like is a majority of people that have a good life.

It's okay, it's good, but they're not living a great life for themselves. I think they got a good job and they're pretty healthy. It's got a decent relationship, but there's something missing. I think if that resonates with anyone listening or watching, comment below or leave a like if you feel like, yeah, my life is good, but I feel like something's off.

You have this great concept called creating a mental rock bottom to push yourself towards your goals. Can you share more about kind of some practical steps of creating your own mental rock bottom so that you can go to the next level in your life? Okay, I want to use the term that you use and you say create.

And I just think so many of us have stepped into careers, that group. We have worshiped, create, create our careers more than we worship create. So the first thing I was headed that group is what would life look like if you did it on your terms? Cause right now you really not doing it on your terms. What you've done is say, yo, if I want to survive.

If I want to strive, this is what I have to do. And you have a loud people to tell you, okay, you need to be an engineer or you need to be a, and you need to move it. So you've done a phenomenal job and being obedient. You've done a phenomenal job in complying. Like you've done a phenomenal job.

You follow the rules. Yes. Congratulations. You show. You're like, you didn't rob a bank. You don't say like, you haven't done anything illegal. You did exactly what a good child should do. And I have a daughter that have to get on her sometime because she's that child that's like, yo, dad, what do you guys want me to do? And she's over here. She's over here.

Don't always be obedient. You need to sit down and ask yourself, if you weren't thinking about the family's name, if Eric Thomas, ETD hip operation was not your father, what would you be doing?

What would you be doing if you didn't have to worry about honoring, you know, the dynasty? Oh, and you do a phenomenal job of honoring this dynasty. I'm not saying anything. Went to school, handled your business. You've never been in trouble before. We've never had to spend money doing anything. You've been a phenomenal child. But what would you do if you live life on your terms and you were able to go where you're going to do? And so that's the first thing I would ask them to do. I want you to think about your life instead of the life.

because that's what you've been thinking about, the like, not think about your life. And I want you to start putting it everywhere. Now, the next thing I want you to do is I want you to know that if you have the ability, like I never forget CJ was like, okay, you know what you're missing that the big boy, all the big boy speakers, you know what you're missing. I was like, no. He was like, the New York Times been selling.

Now, I'm not telling you you got to do it, but I'm saying that's missing. You got it. So he was like, first of all, do you want it? Do you want it? Don't do it because I'm saying, but do you want it? And he could elevate you, but do you want it? And I was like, yeah, I want it. The next question becomes, what does it take to do it?

And then am I willing to do what it takes? That's it. Because it's a lot. It's a lot. But here's the thing. I believe if you think about it, it is only because somewhere inside of you, you have what it takes. Now, capacity is there. Willingness is something totally different. That's different. But I want every human to know.

You wouldn't be watching the school, you wouldn't be watching or listening to the school of greatness if you didn't believe you were great. I'm just, I'm for real. You wouldn't be spending time with this man on the regular basis. I'm telling you, I wouldn't be going to Columbus. I drove to Columbus.

Bruh, it's not a trust me when I tell you, it's not a, you don't get off the freeway. It's not 65, you get off. Why did I go? Because this man is great and greats want to hang with greats. I need y'all to understand. Look, y'all may not know. Listen to me. I've got no mad suitcases that I still carry this day because he gave them to me. I didn't buy a new one. I've carried these facts.

was that he gave me and my son bought a set because I had a set because it reminds me of him when I travel. It's like greatness, great. So you wouldn't be watching. You wouldn't be locked in. Something your spirit has you tuned into this bed because you know you're great. Now you got to say to yourself, am I willing to cooperate with the greatness that's in me? And then once you do,

and you start consistently operating in that, you're going to feel good about it. Here's what you have to do. You have to understand, hundreds of shields, I think, said the top of one mountain is the bottom of the next. So you get to the top of the mountain, but you understand, the GED was just one, the foreign degree was just one, the massive just after the PhD was the New York Times. After that, it's the assessments, it's the training, it's the coaching. I'm in Masterminds.

I did coach, right? And so it's this idea of yesterday's greatness can't be enough because I'm alive today. So if I'm alive today, it must be some more greatness in me. And it's my job, like the toothpaste.

It's my job not to just I don't know about you, but I will just use a little bit of it and get another one. He getting the last drop. I'm squeezing. I got money. I'm squeezing that two pays. Why? Because I'm trying to get everything out the two. Wow. Before I go to another and with my life before I get out of here, which is why I could murder myself.

that I didn't realize at 12 that I was great. And that's why I said you got to check in 2025, you 2025, right? Because I didn't know I was great. And once I checked and realized how great I was, I was like, bro, we gonna keep doing this.

And to the day we die, as I would just say, you're watching, you're in this space, you're reading his books, you're going to his conferences because you know it's in you and it's time to stop being lazy and it's time to activate. I love that, man. Well, here's the thing why I think a lot of people might stay stuck is they

They allow their feelings to keep them in place of frustration. You have this great example that you say execution should be fact-based, not feeling-based, but people feel the overwhelm of the economy or the government or their parents or their partner or whatever the responsibilities of the world. They feel anxious, avoiding, overwhelmed, burnt out.

like doubtful, insecure, and they allow feelings to consume their inaction.

So how, what's an example of how someone can shift from being driven by emotions into fact-based actions towards it? What's your teacher, man? The meditation thing, people don't think it's serious. Yeah. This is the time to get control of your mind. And for most of us, our mind is in control of us. So when you talk about meditating, it's like, this is a habit of the grades.

And one of the habits of those individuals, not where they want to be, I'm not trying to be funny, but it's like lazy. To actually meditate regularly is a discipline. It is, man. It's not easy. It's not easy to get control of your, I'm like, where did that thought come from? Right? So some guys, let's go back to the 12 year old that found the birth certificate. Right? We found the birth certificate.

We found the birth certificate in emotional state. We found it in emotional state. Listen to me, I'm not the first kid who has ever gone through this experience. And you know what I had to ask myself in that mirror at 16, 17, 18, I had to keep asking myself, when you saw it, why did you see it that way? Why did you not call your mom and say, mom, you wouldn't talk about this?

Why didn't you go, hey, Ma, the counselor? Can we go sit down and talk to the counselor? Hey, Ma, call dad. Can we just sit down and listen to me? I went from, I can't believe that you would do me like this. I went from a ball of emotions to living in a band of buildings. It was the stupidest decision I had probably ever made. I put myself in so much danger as a 12-year-old, 13-year-old. Homeless? They thought emotions. Only emotions. So the same document, nothing changed about it.

But if I could go back as this adult and look at that, I would look at it as facts and go, wow, your mother protected you. Wow, your mom loved you so much that she didn't want you with your biological father because she thought he could be a threat. Right? One more indifferent. Your mom didn't do this because she was trying to hurt you. Your mom did this because she was trying to protect you. Your mom brought you into a family. Your mom didn't try to hide the identity. She wanted this man

to be your father. He changed your name and gave you his last name. Wow, he treated me as if I was his own. Wow, he didn't lie. He made his family treat me as if I was and don't ever say anything about my past because my past has nothing to do with him making a decision at the courthouse to be my dad. It's the same document.

What? Emotional? The other one is factual. Your mother loves you. Your mother cares for you. Your mother's trying to put you in a healthy environment. Your mother has a job. Your mother married somebody who was a foreman at GM. He has a job. He has a college degree. He played basketball. He's a responsible man. He protected from taking, but emotion wouldn't let me be rational.

Emotional would let me think rationally. It had me irrational. So I would say when you make emotional decisions, you get emotional consequences. But it takes meditation. It takes controlling of the mind to say, how should I behave? How should I think in this situation? And what's going to give me the best outcomes? And I'm going to be honest, I've learned we can save the emotions for when I'm looking at the no man bag and going,

Man, that's my boy. Thank you. Wout to even Bobby. Like, what would make you think of, and this is a perfect gift, you know what I'm saying? Like, I didn't think to buy suitcases for myself. That's where the emotion should be. Me coming in and seeing you hugging you. What's up, fam? But when it comes to business, when it comes to being a leader and a decision maker, we're not doing emotions. We're doing empirical evidence. We're doing facts. What does the facts say? What does the research say? What does the evidence say? Okay, and based on the research and the evidence, this is the game plan.

Let's go. It doesn't matter how you feel. Yeah. Don't matter how you feel. Man, I love this. Yeah. Again, if we're.

We're talking about really developing kind of a bulletproof mindset when the last five years for a lot of people has been a lot of stress and overwhelming anxiety. In order to have a more powerful, resilient mindset, how important is it for not just me and you? Because I didn't know the answer for me and you. How important is it for everyone to have mentors in their life? It's everything, right? Listen to me.

I never even thought about being a multi-millionaire or a billionaire until I was in a room. We're Warren Buffett.

I didn't even know how much it was worth when I was in the ruins afterward. And then this all started making sense. Okay, now that I know who I am, you 2025, like check, I know who I am. Now it's, oh, oh real estate is away. Oh, so you mean to tell me that being a blue collar? Okay, that's what my parents knew, but you don't make a whole bunch of money work. You make more money when you put your money to work. Oh, that's real estate. Oh, helping kids who are talented, figure out their talent and taking a percentage.

Oh, okay. I didn't even know this stuff exists. Got it. And so it is, it is important. Bob Proctor pulling me to the side. How much do you charge? You should be charging Les Brown calling me and said, I meet you in Orlando. Les Brown, sit me down, talk to me, listen to me, coach it is everything. Why? Because I just said, think of Michael Jordan without Phil Jackson. Think of Venus and Serena, Venus and Serena without Richard Williams.

Like, you know, I just want you to pitch a Kobe without Phil Jackson. Think about Tim Brooke without Mike, without him growing up. So coaching is critical. Here's what's going to blow your mind.

When you get to our level, you really need more coaching. We didn't exhaust it all the stuff. You really need coaching. After Jordan, after Jordan won his first championship, he didn't say, I think I've got to figure it out on my own. I don't need a coach. He said, let me find Tim to train me. Let me find the mindset coach, the recovery coach. You know, make sure we're getting to the next level. They said, they said, I read it, but it's research. I'm almost sure it's true that LeBron, look at LeBron, what he's doing right now.

It's amazing, man. Bro, 40, a 40 second dunk in our 20 year old. Whoever had the arguments, you know what I'm saying? Because there were those of us who was alive. Yeah. We watched Jordan do his thing. But bro, when LeBron is doing right now, but when I do my research and not emotional about, oh, how is he doing? It's just eight. No, when I do my research, he spent a 1.5 million.

on his body, recovery coaches, meaning dietary coaches, meaning mental and emotional coaches, acting coaches, like he got on. And so you see the decision he made. And you see, okay, yeah, he was great. But that investment that he made in himself?

And now look at his son is in, and then he got another son as part. These are decisions that he's making. He's not emotional. These decisions are based on facts of experts. And then we're seeing the outcomes of, we're seeing the numbers that he's putting up at this age versus the, and nobody's ever put these kind of numbers up at this particular age. So we already coaches, you know, and so that's why I made the decision that he,

The one area that you need to step up in, speaking is good, traveling the world, talking, but you gotta, the same way people open up doors for you and walk you through.

You have forgot to do the same thing. And I've literally, the last two years, have had a small group of people that every morning I wake up with. And I train them for an hour, every single morning. It's amazing. And what's amazing about that is to see the difference between people I coach and people who watch me online. It's a difference. You watching me online, you're getting the motivation, but you're not getting the daily schedule.

You're not getting the things to do this. You're not getting the mindset. You're not getting the analytics. You're not getting the blueprint. So it's like you're watching and then you were in turn, and this is why I think all your books are good, but I think.

training with our books are good because people will read our books and interpret them in a way that we didn't intend for their interpreting. So when we do the training or they get to come to a conference where they get to watch the podcast, they're really investing more to what was

What was he really saying? And if they could do what you're saying that habit, they can get the outcomes it means. Yeah, it's also being around other people who are in that mindset, who are pushing and you're seeing them grow and it's influencing you to grow and you're, yeah, since the community aspect of we're getting coached together, we're growing together, we're working our goals and all that stuff.

You've got an amazing challenge coming up here. It's u2025.com where you're going to put people through a lot of what we've been talking about and more 21 days. 21 days every day, coaching, teaching, mentoring, giving them schedule.

what I actually do, not just the passion and stuff, you hear it online, but the actual and for free, what you, I'm gonna walk you through how many steps I take a day, what I'm drinking, why do I decide to wake up at this time? Why am I doing this so that?

you can start the year off. There should be like in class, especially you go to college, it should be like you, you owe you 101, you owe you 215, like you owe you 312. Like literally, you get to sit down and go, who am I? What are my skills? What are the things that I'm challenged with? Like what industries would I be best in? We spend so much time trying to get that we, I don't think we spend us a significant enough time

who we are, like who should we become? Yeah, that's beautiful, man. So they can go to you2025.com to register for that. That's powerful, man. I feel like I could talk to you for a long time on this. But I wanted to ask you a couple more questions before I wrap up. Again, we're going back to the 12 year old you who's down and out figuring about you. Your dad's not your biological dad in your life, your mom's life, challenges in life.

And we're talking about where you're at now. Where do you think you'd be without a spiritual relationship with God in your life over the last 30-plus years with all the ups and downs? Where would you be in life right now, the ETU, with no spiritual relationship? I'd say the day. I'd say day. Really? Yeah, because I was an extremist. You know, everything I did, I did it to the fullest. You know, so I think I would be dead, honestly.

I would say this to simplify for people, because sometimes when you talk spirituality, for some people it's just too deep. I would say to you, what happened when I made a commitment to God?

is that I connected with the person that made me, that knew me like nobody else knew me. And he coached me from the 12 year old tonight. He coached me. He's like, bro, I know you, I'm major. I know I know what's the best environment for you. I know who's good for you, who's not good for you. I know your temptations. I know your, your vices. You know, I know your good habits, your bad habits. And just let me, let me teach you, you know? And so it was maybe five, six years of fighting.

Resisting, you know, and then, because he introduced himself to me at eight, and I guess maybe it was too young, but homeless, I was like at 16, like, okay, I'm ready to get coached. Where's the coaching program? I'm ready for that coach. And so from 16 to maybe 25, you know, it was like, okay, I'm gonna come to coach in some days, some days, I'm not, some days I'm gonna come in, and then my son was born. I was almost 25 years old, Jalen was born.

And, um, General was born in 1995. I turned, um, 25 in September. He was born July 20th. And when Jalen was born, it was the day coach said to me, this is why I've been trying to train you. Because I wanted you to be the best father you could be. And so you miss him. You miss him classes. You miss him lessons.

Your son is here now. He needs the best version of you. We can't repeat the mistakes of the past.

I need you to hurry up. And so when Jalen was born from that day full, I remember when he was born, I held him. And it was kind of like he lifted me like, you the person that's going to take care of me. And that was the day. And this is what a lot of you are running from is to our word. And I get it because it's tough. Responsibility. That was the day where it's like, oh, you got to be responsible for somebody else. Yeah. You cannot.

You got, I've never played a video game since Jaylen was born. I've read more books since Jaylen was born that first year or two that I ever read in my life. I took my career seriously speaking. I start, you know, Zig Ziegler, you know, Nightingale, you know, Aug Mendino, you know, Proctor, all these drugs, you name them. Dennis Kemper, like I went, I went.

deep, I went heavy. You know, Arthur Ashe, you know, Dave's a great man. I read everything. I was in the library like I just studied and studying and studying and it was because I didn't want the

I didn't want some of the consequences of the past to come in this generation. And so for me, it was like, yo, your sons here, you got to handle your business. And I just heard I was more attentive. I started getting up at six, and then I played this game. Daylight saving times would come. I would say, don't follow it. Stay up at five. That's the new. And then the next year, the four, and then I got started getting up at three.

And I started getting up at 3 o'clock in the morning because it was still. There was no dogs outside. Nobody was driving around. The family was sleek. And I was like, okay, coach, I'm sorry. Let's go back over the lessons I didn't get. And let's go over the new lessons where I coach me, show me, show me, show me. Nobody knows me. And I tell people I either brand new Cadillac, man, 10,000 miles in the engine blue.

And I immediately took it back to Cadillac. I didn't take it to BMW. I didn't take it to Honda. I took it straight to Cadillac. And I went right back to the creator. I was like, yo, you made me. And I'm tearing this car up. I'm not putting oil in it. I'm not changing the rotating tires. I'm not putting fluid in it. Show me how to take care of this. And he began to show me how to do it. It's just like amazing to see.

when we're on one accord and I'm following, he told me, he was like, I think I called you maybe last year. And I was like, no, no, you're just supposed to call him and say, what's up? And then this time, it was like, yep, you need to do it. I was like, all right, I got a brand that I think.

And I was like, all right, you know what I'm saying? So just listening to him doing what he's telling me to do and let coach me. So I would say, you know, don't spiritualize it and make it too. It's the coach and just get a relationship with the coach. Let the coach get a relationship with you and just do what he tells you to do when you go and let it results. And so I don't want to just be happy. I want to create it a go.

Yeah, I'm grateful that I created you. And I see you're doing in the world what it was that I wanted you to do. And now, also for yourself, what I wanted you to do, because I wanted you to be happy to. I didn't want your life to just be about work and being a blessing. I wanted you to be blessed as well. So that's it.

You're a very driven person. You've shown that over your whole career, right, in your life. Overcome a lot of different challenges and adversities in the first time in so many different ways. When someone is going through a dark time,

And however that looks for them, a breakup, a death, a letdown, any type of dark time in a life, is it possible to keep being driven in your career and your goals and your dreams when you're going through sadness and darkness and grief and loss without also being able to heal and on the process? Can you heal and be driven at the same time?

Or is it only you can be driven because you're masking the pain and the suffering and you're not actually addressing it? Is it possible to do both be driven in the darkness? Yeah, but that's what's so beautiful about this experience in life, right? Is it like we don't have to be one-dimensional that all things can be true at the same time.

You know, it's the reason why it's like, I remember once shortly after Peter had died, I was sitting with a friend and she was telling me a story and I started laughing hysterically. You know, it was like, yeah, it was like from my belly, you know, the kind of laugh that makes you want to fall over and slap something, you know, that kind of laugh? And then almost stopping short because I was like, oh, I'm supposed to be sad. You know, like I'm not supposed to laugh like this. The truth of matter is that like, isn't that what life is?

Even when you're grieving, you can have belly laughs that take you out of that pain for however long that is. Maybe it's a second or maybe it's five minutes or maybe it's a few days. So if you're in a dark place, can you still be driven? Of course you can. It's not a constant ether though, where being gentle with yourself and knowing that even when you're in the darkness, there will be times when you don't feel like getting up. But it's not forever.

you know, or to feel badly that you're driven even though you're going through something, you know? So like even when, yeah, it was like, when I decided to move from New York and take the next job, and people were like, shouldn't you be in a cave somewhere, buying your eyes out? You know, like, why are you so ambitious? Sit down.

You know? And yeah, I did question myself too. Like, why am I not sitting down somewhere? Like, why am I still out here pushing? You know, like, there were, there've been many, many moments like that. And I don't think that there has to be only one definition for how we are, you know? So like, yes, if you're in a place

where you feel like the textbook expectation should be that you should take one step at a time, take it one day at a time. I hate that phrase by the way. Instead of taking one day at a time, what should we do? Oh, we should take it all. Do everything. All at once. Make it messy. Make it unpredictable. Defy logic.

Like, why does it have to be so ordered? One day at a time for what? One step at a time for what? Sometimes I'm gonna run. Sometimes I'm gonna skip. Sometimes I'm gonna go backwards. Sometimes I'm gonna lay down. Sometimes I'm gonna sit up and look at the world. And sometimes, yes, I will take one step. But why does it have to be so ordered all the time?

And so the freedom in that I think allows us then to be multiple things at one time. So that yes, you can be driven and in a dark place. You can be hurting and still laugh. You can be healing and still trying to figure out how to avoid the next hurt. You know, like all of those things can be true at the same time and doesn't have to mean that you're wrong or that you're doing it wrong.

It's like there's no definition for how you're supposed to live your life. And I think that's also the other beautiful thing.

You know, the fact that like, no one has ever been where I am before. Not a person on the planet. You know, and so it's like, why would I subscribe to the steps somebody else thinks I should be ordered for me? Right. There's no plan. No one fully understands your life experiences. They might be able to relate to some things, but they don't fully understand and comprehend everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there's so much freedom in them. Yeah.

It's like, you don't have to listen to anybody. Right, exactly. You know, so it's like, yes, you can be hurt and trying to heal, maybe taking the steps to healing, you know, whether that's therapy or you're working on something that you feel like are taking a risk that you would have been fearful of before, but still like being driven about this thing or like being, you know, like, okay, I'm going to accomplish this even though I'm not 100%, like that's the thing that always like I'm thinking about is it like,

Again, you don't have to have a full tank of gas to get to the other side of town. You know what I mean? Maybe you're at a quarter tank and you know that it's going to take you like, you know, just up to that, like, right at that quarter to get there. You know, it's like, go anyway. Why does the tank have to be full? You know what I mean? So for me, I'm constantly thinking about that, like, I'm still in the process of healing.

that that whole statement about like time heals all, heals all wounds is a bull. Okay. It does not. Well since I can say that because my I've got an emotional coach that I work with I was talking about pretty much every two weeks and

She says, like, healing's a journey. It's not like a destination where you're like, okay, now I'm healed. It's okay, now I've come to an awareness about the things, now I've started processing it, now I'm integrating the lessons, now, oh, now I went back two steps because I've triggered again. Now I reintegrate and I process it some more and time helps, but it may not heal all. You know what I mean? So it's our constant awareness of it.

constant grace in the process of being a human being. Yes, of it. You know what I mean? Yes. You know, he just made me think of something because this idea of like waiting to heal before you do the thing, that's like the opposite of living the urgent life. You know, because if you're constantly waiting until you are

healed, or you're constantly waiting until that next thing happens, or you get to the right spot, or then you won't be fulfilled in your life. If I waited to be totally healed from the trauma of my husband dying, I would not have moved across the country. If I was waiting to be healed from the death of my first child, I would not be a mother today. All these things that we're waiting to accomplish, we're waiting to be fixed.

before you can do the next thing. It's just, it's like a waste of time. Yeah, I think it's inspiring when we have the courage to do the next thing and be aware that we're on a healing journey. Yes. You know, I'm never going to be fully healed, but I'm in the process. I'm working on it. I'm doing this and I'm going to do it anyways. And there's no shame. Yeah, exactly. There's no shame in that. You know, by the way, that's another like whole unlock.

that I had for myself and in my career, believe it or not, was that I opened this vulnerability that I had closed off before. This idea of the perfection, that things had to be great and complete in order to move to the next thing. And very quickly,

I was kind of thrown into it when I accepted the job with Jimmy that I had no idea what music streaming was. I had never done that before. I was not an expert in it, but it didn't mean that I couldn't go do it. And guess what? I figured it out.

You know what I mean? Or like, moving anything in my life, which has felt like, gosh, I need to really have conquered this thing in order to move to the next one, has been a lie. And it is actually how I counsel a lot of women, especially, who are early in the career or mid-career even, that who are waiting.

to rack all the things before they take the next risk. I'm just like, you know that that actually doesn't work. You can't wait until you've checked off every box before you jump to the next thing that you gotta do. You gotta leave some room for growth. Your cup is, if it's all the way full, how are you gonna put more stuff in it?

You know what I'm saying? You gotta have a little bit open at the top in order to pour more experiences in there. If you're ever just full to the brim, if you've checked off everything, then there's no more growth for you. So as I even look at myself, that is where I am now, where it's just like, there is no more growth if you're all the way full. If you're checked off everything before you take the next risk, where are you gonna put the stuff that you're getting? So yes, leave the tank like quarter full.

Well, that's why I think it's really cool because in this offseason that you're having in this last year, you're filling up your cup of your health and wellness, you're filling up your relationship cups, you're filling up your adventure and travel cups, you know, your relaxation cup. You're filling those up, but you're emptying your cup of career and success and this to see the space of what can come in next, to see where you can grow into next.

So I think it's a great analogy. It's like, you know, fill your fill another cup, you know, yeah, but that cup you got to empty it out. Yeah, exactly. Get more cups.

It's like, maybe my corporate cup is full. I have a brand new cup. But you look like you're in your best health and wellness phase of your, you know, since I've known you, not that you were not in great shape before or emotionally in a good place, but you feel energetically peaceful. I see you training. I see you like getting healthy in even better ways.

I see you with photos with your daughter and things like this and just like enjoying life together, traveling and bringing her in your life more and those trips. I'm sure you did that before too. And so you're able to experience things in a different way to allow for things to open up. Absolutely. Absolutely. But that's also, like I said, part of the learning of this, you know, which is it's like I don't have to have had things complete.

in order to move to the next thing. I'm sure there are people who would look at my career and say, oh, but you haven't done that thing yet. Don't you think you should do that before you retire? But do I need it? Probably not. So it's like, why continue to do that thing? So again, I think a lot of it really just has to do with self-reflection at the end of the day.

You know, listening to your own spirit, listening to your own needs and wants and making sure that you're not lying to yourself, you know, based on the stories that other people have told you, based on narratives that are running around the planet that you've accepted.

as the truth and maybe we're lies. You know what I mean? So I feel like there's such an opportunity for me too, you know, to re look at everything and yes, be a healthier human and focus more on like, yeah, my physical health. Yes. And focus on my relationship with my daughter, you know, explore the planet in ways that I haven't before. You know, like in 2022, I did a little Instagram reel about this that I every month last year, I worked out in a different country.

You worked out in a different country. It's pretty cool. It was fantastic. That's awesome.

But, you know, it was like, God, what a dream, you know, to be in a place where I'm financially secure enough to do that. That's cool. Where I have the time to do that. Yeah. You spend 20 years building your career and you're, you know, stacking your income and saving and investing so that you have the opportunity after 20 years to do that. Yeah, and to take advantage of it now. And enjoy it. Yeah. And have an urgency around it. Man, because like, what am I going to do? When I was 75? Well, hopefully I'll still be working out and still healthy. But you know what I'm saying?

Waiting for that is not the answer. So even in that, I have urgency.

So there's this, you know, I love your story about you were satisfied at 20 something years old in the back of the, you know, the cab or the black car and you're satisfied now. And I think a lot of people hear this concept of never be satisfied, but we were just talking about how, you know, be satisfied with where you are, but also be striving for your purpose, your mission and stepping into that. And what are your thoughts on the idea of never be satisfied?

You know what, I understand why somebody would say that, you know, like you should always be hungry, like you should always be chasing as a good motivator, you know, to get the next thing so that you wake up and you want to go get it. But that's a terrible way to live. You know, it's like completely, I vehemently disagree with the concept that you should never be satisfied.

You should be satisfied. You should be satisfied. You should wake up feeling satisfied with your life. It doesn't mean that you don't want the next thing. Of course, you want the next thing. But like, if life were to end today, would you want to have lived an unsatisfied life? Would you want, like, I think I really do think of Peter at those last days

You know, and think about all the things that he was unsatisfied about. I don't want that for myself. I don't want that for you. I don't think any of us should live that way. So be satisfied. You know, and that doesn't mean lesser than. Be satisfied, even if you're just starting out as an assistant, getting coffee, if you're the CEO, if you're anywhere in between, if you're in an off-season, be satisfied. Yes, be satisfied. Be satisfied with like how wonderful

You have it. Even the least of us, even the people who are in this terrible play, like I said, we can be satisfied. The day after Peter died, actually no. It was a few days later because we were having his funeral. He died on December 11, 2013. It was four days before his 44th birthday. And so on his 44th birthday, December 15, we had his funeral and made it a party.

And I was sitting there and, you know, kind of in a haze, but then also, you know, that moment of clarity where I'm looking around the room and like his fraternity brothers are drinking beers and they're sharing stories about him. And, you know, my daughter's like sleeping on my mom's lap and I've got my sisters like in the corner trying to busy themselves, you know, like getting out plates of food and whatnot and see people connecting.

And it was the oddest thought. I looked around and I was just like, wow, this is a good group of people. This is a great place to be, to have this. And so I was satisfied in that moment. The most terrible thing had happened in my life. But I was looking around and feeling very satisfied.

with who I had around me. And that, I think, is what I would like for all of us to consider. That even when things are bad and going wrong, you can still be satisfied. You can still feel like, this is it. And it is OK. It's OK. I'm a big fan of the title of the book, The Urgent Life.

And when I saw this, I was just thinking to myself, yes, right away, because we have like similar, completely different experiences, but similar feelings probably from experiences we've had. So my father got in an accident. He had a traumatic brain injury and was in a coma for three months when I was 21. And I remember, we didn't know if he was gonna live or die, but he eventually woke up after three months.

And he was a completely different person. Like he was physically alive, but emotionally and mentally kind of gone. Took him a while to learn how to talk again. He wasn't able to work anymore. He had amnesia. So when I'd see him, he'd be like, what's your name again? It was just a different type of relationship, right? I had to learn to love my father for who he was and start to grieve the man that he once was before, right? And I remember thinking he was in his early 50s when this happened.

He had worked so hard for 30 years as a life insurance salesman where he finally was starting to make money where he could like travel and have some freedom in his life. And he was starting to feel like he was happy for the first time, fully happy. And then this accident happened. And I remember being really angry at life that my dad didn't get to go live the rest of his life the way he wanted to.

And I felt like I had so much urgency to go pursue everything I wanted, like from that moment on. I was like, I'm not gonna let any fear or insecurity hold me back. It might still be there, but I'm at least gonna take the actions on my goals, my dreams, and live urgently, because what if this happens to me? What if I get in a car accident tomorrow? And something like that happens to me, I'd be sad that I didn't at least go try.

And this, you know, again, completely different experience you had, but it created a feeling of urgency in your life with your ex-husband, right? With your husband. Yeah. And which was almost 10 years ago. Yeah. Is that right? 10 years into December. And can you explain the story about what had happened with your husband around wanting to get divorced and then cancer situation and how this

How being in a very dark, sad, challenging time, sad time.

wanted you to create urgency at the same time and living to your best self during sadness. Can you explain a little bit about that? Well, first of all, I really appreciate what you just said and shared about your dad, you know, because I feel that for all of us who are living this life on this like hurtling rock we call home, we don't always have to have had the same experience to understand essentially the concept of what I'm talking about.

you know this need for urgency and it's not necessarily about the rush through life it's about the intention you know knowing like you said like you know I want to do these things because what if so then you're intentional about saying okay I want to live a big life or I want to go do this thing that I'm dreaming of or I want to push a little harder

Because like, what if, right? And the same thing for me in that, like, I don't think of the end of life in this morbid way where I'm just like, oh, today might be my last say, I don't think of it in a morbid way. It's very inspiring to me, actually. It makes me want to get up and go do the thing. You know? And again, it's not about a rush. It's like, I want to make the best use of my time.

that I have, I don't know how long it is, but I want to make the best use of it. And I'm also conscious of the fact that I won't do everything. And so that means that I have to be very intentional about the things I choose to do. Because if you walk around thinking like, oh, I have the time, I'll just do everything at some point.

that maybe you don't get to do anything at all. So I'm intentional in knowing that like, oh, okay, I might not get a chance to complete everything. So what's the most important thing? And then I want to do those things. And so at the time in December of 2013, when Peter passed away, we were there. The stories are true. You're sitting at the deathbed.

And you're talking about all the things you wish you'd done. Is that what he was saying? Oh, yeah. We talked about so much. Oh, man. The things he wanted to do was hopes and dreams, what he wants for Lael, our daughter, like what he wanted for her in the future. You know, all of those things. And I was sitting there listening and thinking and crying and making promises and all of the things and knowing that I need to change the way I live.

You know, he wouldn't have a chance to do it over. So I need to do it, you know? And it was such a dark time also because we were already going through so much on top of being at Deaf's door, you know, that like our marriage had fallen apart. We had been separated for a couple of years already and through so much.

Oh gosh, additional traumas that happened to us, misunderstandings, anger, you know, that we couldn't overcome with just love, you know, you think it's like- On that expectations, everything, yeah. Oh man, you think love conquers everything and no one does not. Love is not enough. Love is not enough. You know, love is not enough. And it was all of that turmoil

that led us to that moment where I am sitting holding his hand at his breath gets shallower and shallower. And thinking about all the things I would have done differently if I had a shot to do it again. It's not necessarily that like, oh, I wish life had turned out differently. It's just that I wish I had been motivated differently. What were you motivated by before then? Oh, man.

I think at that time, I was motivated by just my own need for my own life. Not really focused on anybody else's. And that sounds very selfish, but that's where I was. It was not, I was a mother and a wife, but I was so only focused on myself. Really? Yeah, that's true. I mean, it's like, there was so much that

had happened on my path to motherhood. And it's another one of the things that like, you know, now I talk about so openly because we also paint motherhood like it's supposed to be like this great, amazing thing that like, oh, you get pregnant and all of a sudden it's like, oh, all this love shows up from nowhere. And you're just like encapsulated by this person. It's like, no, that actually doesn't happen all of the time.

Moments of that might happen. Moments of that might happen. But during the time it's probably like cleaning diapers and feeding and pumping and all the things that moms have to do. And sitting there and being like, oh hell, I made a mistake. This is not what I wanted in my life, you know? And struggling with that. And there were so many times where I thought,

about that. It was like, wow, is this life what I actually wanted? And so then at that moment in December of 2013, I was like, oh no, I have to make the life that I want. I have to make it. I have to be an active participant in it. You know, just sit back and let the life happen to you. You have to make it.

Wow. What was the biggest lesson during that time? You feel like you learned about his regrets, about him not doing the things that he wanted to do. What opened up for you during that time that shifted if anything did shift for you or that? This might sound funny, but I think logic is what surprised me most, the logic of things.

The writing down. It's like almost like the writing down of the plan. Yeah, things that make sense. Because you're like, oh, I'm going to do these things. I'm logically going to take these steps in order to get to that thing, right? And all of his regrets, everything that he wanted to do, that he didn't get a chance to do, was based on the logic of the steps to get to that thing that he never got to. Like just scheduling it in the calendar, or like making the trip for it. And then it's like, oh, I'm going to do this, and I'm going to do that. And then all based on logic,

Life is not made of logic. Life is magic. It's the accidental encounters. It's the things that you can't explain. The feeling that you get in your belly that makes you feel alive and glittery or it makes you super sad or you don't want to get out of bed and the sky just looks great. And then maybe one thing happens, you're like, oh, okay, I can do it.

You know, that's life. And being open to that is actually what gives you the experiences. So therefore, when perhaps you don't accomplish everything that was on your plan, you still feel really happy about the things that you did do, because it was also magical.

You know, and I'm not talking about like these big firework things. I'm talking about the little stuff too. You know, the new person that you mean on the way to somewhere, you know, or like the like meal that you had that you didn't think was gonna be delicious, that you just really savored. It was like, it was just magically amazing, you know, and just being appreciative of those moments. So again, it's like the life is not just about like the big, big, big stuff. It's not the headlines.

You know, so to me, it's like logic is what I then throughout the window. Interesting. It's like, oh, I'm not gonna live a logical life. I'm gonna live a magical life. The kind that is open to all of the things I can't explain. Mm-hmm. You know, that like the writing down of the list and the making the stabs and the, ah. You know, and I'm not saying that you walk around just like, oh, not daddy dog, whatever happens today is what happens. You know, like, look, we all gotta be responsible at all. Sure. Okay.

But the truth of the matter is that, like, how many of our plans have been stopped because of logic, the things that you said, like, ah, well, shoot, I can't do that because of this reason and that reason and that reason. And sometimes other people's logic that actually stops you from doing things you want to do. And so I want to stop that.

I've been active in being like every time I approach a new ambition or a new idea or like, oh, I want to take a trip here and that logic starts to come in. I'm like, girl, where's that magic? YouTube, you better just step out and let the magic find you. You don't? And not stop yourself because the math is, is mapping.

Right. It doesn't make sense logically. No! It doesn't make sense logically. Allow wonder and sacredness of these things in your life. Yes! To happen! Loose, I can't tell you how many things have happened in my life that don't make sense. Right.

The fact that I've had the career, I've had doesn't make sense. It's not logical. There's no stat. Even when you look at things like, oh, you know how many black women, CMOs, I've had jobs for like Fortune 50 companies, there's no math. There's no data point that it doesn't exist, but I exist. So can you explain that? So opening yourself up to these things is what actually creates

your destiny to run the way that it should. I'll give you one example. When Peter died in December of 2013, I was at PepsiCo. I'd been there for 10 years. It was a great job. I'd done many iterations of things, and at that time, I was the head of music and entertainment marketing. And so I had been part of the team that did deal with the NFL.

for the Super Bowl halftime show, I put Beyonce on that stage. It was huge. It was huge. I have a great, exciting career. And then Peter died. And I looked around and I was like, man, I think I want to do more things. Am I going to sit here for another 10 years in New York City doing this, or have I had enough of this? And as I formulated that thought,

I went to, I think was NBA All-Star or something like that.

And I met somebody that I knew very lightly, who told me that Jimmy Ivey and Dr. Dre had started their company Beats Music off of the back of Beats by Dre, and that they were looking for a head of marketing what I'd be interested in. The job was in LA. My husband had been dead maybe two months. I had a four year old child that I was trying to figure out how to raise by myself. Like all these things. And so Logic would tell you, there's no situation down. You know what I mean?

situate your life, figure out how to be a widow and a single mom and the main breadwinner, like figure that stuff out, calm down, get some therapy. You know, just like sit and be quiet for a second, grieve. Let a year go by and then figure out what you want to do. But instead, I was like, it really doesn't make any sense for me to leave Pepsi, a long established company.

and go to Beats Music where it's barely a company. Some new thing, yeah. I didn't know what music streaming was. I had no idea what that was, but no idea. But I came and came to LA and took a meeting with Jimmy and he was talking about stuff that I had no idea about. And when I resigned from PepsiCo to take the job,

Everybody told me it was a bad idea. It was gonna tell you there was not one person who supported it. Not even my mother. No one. Everybody thought I'd lost my mind. People thought I was acting out of grief. Maybe I was. But the magic was that that opportunity opened up the next 10 years of my life.

It was the magic, the spark that I needed. It changed everything for me, Louis. Everything. And what would have happened if you would have listened to everyone else's fears and not made the jump? Well, my friend, that's a great unknown. I don't want to get to the end of my life and ask that question.

I don't want to sit there and say like, oh man, who would I have done if I'd taken that leap? Just tried that other thing. Maybe you fail, but that's okay. You know, you can pick yourself up again? Sure, for sure. And so sometimes I look around and like, especially when I'm like, you know, talking to a friend who's just like, I'll go, I can't do that because it's just like, but why? Why don't you believe you can do it? You did that thing and that thing and that thing. And again, it doesn't have to be like the world changing thing that got headlines.

but like your everyday accomplishments and did this thing, simply went into that workplace that you feel like demeans you and you still had a smile on your face. Like what an accomplishment that is, you know? Or anything that you did. So it's like, why then do you not feel like you have the power to be able to overcome the things, even if they're unknown to you? Yeah, that's how I feel.

What are the three biggest reasons why people fail in a relationship, why they end up getting divorced, end up getting separated, breaking up, why do you think the, what are those three things that caused that? All right. So number one, lack of healing. Lack of healing because lack of healing probably leads them to choosing the wrong person to begin with.

which is the foundation for disaster because at that point, there's not everything else I'm about to mention. You can't really work it out with this person because you're just not in alignment with them. It's not a good fit. And so a lot of people are trying to make things work with someone they just can't match up with properly. Is that trauma bonding or what is that?

How does that play the part? Some of it is trauma bonding. Some of it is individual. So what's happening is this phenomenon, if you want to call it, that people are choosing individuals that are quote unquote good enough to be with, but they don't really make them feel deeply about them. Because if I'm a man or a woman and I've been hurt before and I've been hurt when I let my heart out completely, I fear being that vulnerable. So now,

You don't really ever learn how to not feel deeply about someone if they're just that person, but people learn who I can deal with and not fall deeply for. So okay, I can be with this person and maintain emotional control. They don't take me there. So I don't ever feel like I'm too vulnerable in this situation. Do you think a lot of women choose the safe guy as opposed to the right guy?

Absolutely. And the safe choice is almost always, if not always, the wrong choice. Oh, man. Why is a safe choice always the wrong choice for a woman? So think about it. In order for it to be safe, it means you are not deeply invested. You may be invested. It may be deep compared to certain people's perceptions of deep, but it's not as deep as you know you can go.

It's not as deep as to where you feel like you'll be devastated by it. So you're starting from a deficit as far as I'm not fully into this. I'm not fully into this guy. But again, he made me good enough for me to work with and try to be with. But because you already have a built-in void, so what happens is this. She chooses this man. She's not really into him. Let's say she's not that attracted to him. And it's not that he's not a good looking guy. She's just not attracted to him like that.

Well, because you don't have that attraction, you're not going to pour into him at the same level that he needs you to. You won't be as intimate with him. You may not talk to him the way that he wants to be talked to. You're not going to give him the same energy that you would someone you're actually very much attracted to. Well, that void, initially he may not catch onto that or let that bother him because if he is indeed

a man who is of a lower position than her or lower quality than her. He may just be happy to have this woman. Oh my gosh, I can't believe I have her. So he's infatuated. He's going in. He's blinded by his desires for her. But at some point, the smoke clears.

And then he realizes, wait a minute, okay, I have her, but I'm not being treated the way I want to be treated. I'm getting walked all over. Exactly, it's all about her. Yes, I don't get the respect that I deserve here. And here's what's crazy. When that woman dates that man who she's not really into like that, and let's just say she dates, she dates down. Well, she just raised his stock to every other woman that's watching this. They're looking in this saying, how did he get her?

What does he have? He must have something. He must have something. He must have something. Big pockets. Big something. So power something. Now, these women want to find out. Do you think women really think that way when they see a guy who maybe is of, you know, hypothetical less quality or seeming less quality than the woman that they're with, that they start to be more attracted to that guy?

Yes, and even if it's not of a lower quality, if as a man, you are seen with an attractive woman, a high quality woman, a desirable woman, you become more desirable to other women. I've talked to friends where they've even gone to clubs. They'll go there with a woman and they'll get more attention. Wow. And when that woman walks away, some of these women will try to slide in and slip in a number here and there. Why do women do this?

It seems like women don't have ethics or they don't have integrity. As opposed to saying, hey, I appreciate and I'm happy for you too. Why is it that some women want to get in there and try to quote unquote steal the man or influence the man to stray?

Well, so it starts with the fact that women have this perception that quality men are, they're not in abundance. They're scarce. Yes, they're very scarce. So when you come across one or you think you come across one, a lot of them have the mentality of, oh no, I have to try to get my foot in the door and see if I can get this for myself. If they thought it was abundant out there, then there'd be less press to do that. But what happens if a guy, okay,

leaves the person he's with for you. Is that woman then going to be confident that he wouldn't do it again? It depends. I think there are some women who convinced themselves, like there's plenty of women who have taken a man from a woman or who have accepted that man leaving one woman for her. And to her, she's good. As long as she's getting what she needs, she's good. But I do think that in the back of their head,

Once something starts to go wrong, that's when those thoughts start to creep in. I wonder if he's talking to someone else. Why isn't he giving me the attention to me? Exactly. And I think it's even more likely that someone who knows about the situation will remind her, well, you got him this way so you might lose him the same. And now the insecurities really start to kick in and it starts to become a huge problem. You talked about attraction and it started to get you off track. No, bro. You talked about attraction.

What do you think is more important sexual attraction or spiritual attraction for a woman? I'm going to say spiritual attraction more than sexual attraction. But I'm saying that with hesitancy. You're positive. I'm not 100%.

The only reason why I'm leaning towards spiritual is because I believe that women value intimacy, non-sexual intimacy, way more than actual just raw sex, okay? So if you had door number one, hugs, kisses, caresses, you know, being emotionally available, door number two, just straight sex. Women are choosing, most women are choosing door number one. Most men are choosing door number two.

And so because of that value for the deeper levels of intimacy, I feel like spiritual attraction kind of fortifies that. Whereas sexual attraction may not get them those things. So that's why I would pick spiritual attraction. Wow. What would you say for any guy listening or watching?

If they wanted to attract the woman of their dreams or essentially any woman that they really desired, if they wanted to attract that, who would they need to become in order to set themselves up to attract an incredible lifelong loving partner who gave them a fulfilling, joyful life? I would say they would have to become their most confident masculine self.

Whatever that looks like, it's going to look different for every guy, but at the foundation of it, there must be confidence in who he is, and he must exude that masculine energy. Not saying there aren't men who can't get them a loving partner, not being the most masculine dude, but

you have a better chance at achieving it when you can walk in your mask energy. That's the power of the man. What if there's a man who is extremely masculine but lacks confidence? What type of partner does he attract typically? Well, I think lacking confidence undermines the masculine energy. It's hard to be that masculine presence. If you are lacking in self-esteem, lacking in self-respect, the things you're going to allow a woman to get away with is going to start to lose

cause her to lose attraction for you. So it's almost like if you become her yes man. A lot of women don't want a yes man. Most women don't want a yes man. It might sound good to some initially, but over time, she gets tired of the fact that you can't think for yourself, that you aren't giving your own perspective, that you aren't confident enough to stand in your own vision and your plan.

that immediately takes you out of your masculine energy because now you're trying to become so accommodating to the point that you've lost yourself in that process. And that doesn't work well in the long term. I mean, whenever you hear stories of nice guys being run over and getting played, it usually involves this man who is just trying to do everything the woman wants and just putting all his desires aside to make her happy. That doesn't work. Not like that, it doesn't.

That's kind of like the safe man, right? Yes. So the safe man is not always the right man is what I think I heard you say, right? Yeah. Typically. But doesn't a woman want to feel safe in an environment with their man? Yes, but the safety

So the safety that's being achieved by picking the safe choice is I don't have to be too vulnerable in this relationship. So I'm able to guard myself from devastating hurt and disappointment that I've probably experienced at least once before, at least at a level that I felt like I don't ever want to go there again.

That's very different than the man who she is completely invested in, completely in love with, and he understands the need to provide safety and security for her, the need to make the situation, the relationship more stable for her, where she can rest in her feminine energy so to speak while she's with him. That's two different types of safety. So it's like, okay, if you choose a safe man,

But essentially it sounds like that's a space where you don't have to fully open up and be vulnerable. It's a space where you probably know you're in control, where you probably have more value to offer, or this person is desiring you way more than you desire them. And that's the big one.

It's a situation where she feels like he wants me or he loves me more than I do him. And that's where they feel like it is safe, but again, it doesn't work in the long run. Never. Yeah, I want to say never. Never. I should never say never, but I'll use that word right now. Because if someone, if you are in a relationship like that, and maybe you're not even conscious that you're doing it in the beginning, but you realize a year, two years in, okay,

you know, the person I've chosen really doesn't step into his confidence or his masculine energy. He'll do anything I wanted to do at all times. He stops his dreams from my dreams, whatever it is.

What is typically the women you've worked with? What do they say about that? What do they feel about that? And what is their struggle? Is it they want to leave? Is it they just feel bad? They don't feel the connection anymore? What is it that they feel? Well, so it's a tricky place because at that point, it's hard for them to fully express what's going on.

Like one thing I tell women is that one of the worst positions to be in is with a man you're not truly in love with a good man, you're not truly in love with. Why is that the worst position? Because at that point, if she's feeling empty, she's feeling bored, she's feeling unsatisfied.

Who can she run to and say this too? That won't say, but wait a minute, you have a great man. You can't do that. Oh, just work with, like, no one's gonna say, oh yeah, you know what, I get it, just walk away. Not, I won't say no one, but most people aren't going to allow that to be a good enough reason for her to walk away. So she knows she's gonna get pushed back from people, but not just pushed back from people from her own self. It's like, okay, wait a minute, do I leave this great guy who loves me so much?

which is so safe here, even though I'm not really that happy, I'm not fulfilled, or maybe I'm not that attracted to him, that's a tough position to be in because it's like, it would be so much easier if he cheated on her. It would be so much easier if he was abusive or something. Then she can easily validate, oh okay, I gotta go.

And that's why some women in that situation, what they do is try to create turmoil. Yes, they're trying to find something to give them the exit to say, okay, I don't have to be here anymore.

or to make that man want to leave them. And in fairness, this happens on both sides, but I've literally talked to clients who, they cheated, hoping it would make their partner leave them. Oh my gosh. Because what was happening was, in this instance, she was trying to tell the guy over and over, I don't wanna be here. But again, he's this good guy, I love you, I don't wanna lose you. I'll do whatever you need, I'll change. Exactly. And out of guilt and sympathy, she stays with him.

But she's so not happy. So now she's thinking, okay, he won't leave me. Even when I tell him, I don't want to do this anymore. Even when I tell him this is not working. So what can I do? And some will actually cheat on purpose. Let the man find out. Hoping he would find let go. And in some cases, he still doesn't let go. And he still wants to work it out with her. And she feels trapped.

And so it just continues like it's just a never ending cycle until either one of them finally gets tired of it or I don't know just it just it's crazy. There's not much stress. Yeah. So what I heard you say for a man to attract the you know

a joyful, loving partner that they really desire and have some of that they really are inspired by for, you know, a long term. I'm hearing you say that that man needs to step into their self-esteem, their confidence, and their masculinity. They got to step into that leadership, masculinity, quality, right? That essence. If a woman really wants to attract the right healthy man, someone that is

safe in terms of they can trust, but where they have to fully, they have to feel a little vulnerable to really dive in and they really care about this man in a big way. What does a woman need to do in order to attract that ideal partner for themselves? It's the same as for the women in reverse. It's walking in their true feminine, confident self, whoever they really are, but being that best version of themselves.

to what you were saying, it can't be find a man who you can be feminine with. It has to be be your feminine self first and you'll be able to attract the man that you can continue to be feminine with or that will honor, respect and value your feminine energy and protect your feminine energy. That's what you want. But what's happening to so many women is

They become detached from their femininity or they're viewing it in a negative way. They're viewing it as weakness as when I'm feminine. I get played. I get taken advantage of. And so the mindset is, if I find the right man, I can be that. So you'll hear a lot of women say, well, I am feminine in a relationship. The problem is he can't see that far in to know that he wants to get in a relationship with you.

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