#2264 - Lenval Logan & Jason Sands
en
January 29, 2025
TLDR: Lenval Logan and Jason Sands, retired U.S. Air Force officials involved in UAP investigations, appear in various documentaries and share their experiences through their respective projects: Phenom app and The Firsthand Fund.

In this episode of The Joe Rogan Experience, hosts Lenval Logan and Jason Sands share their insights and experiences related to Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAP), their military backgrounds, and the implications for society regarding the existence of non-human intelligence.
Background of the Guests
Lenval Logan
- Former U.S. Air Force Intelligence Analyst: Served as a B-52 crew chief before transitioning to intelligence roles, focusing on UAP initiatives.
- CEO of Phenom LLC: Developed the Phenom app, designed for reporting UAP and paranormal experiences.
Jason Sands
- Retired U.S. Air Force Veteran: Served 22 years and also contributed to the UAP program.
- Founder of the Firsthand Fund: Aims to assist those who have experienced UAP encounters to share their stories.
Key Topics Discussed
Encounters with Non-Human Intelligence (NHI)
- Both guests recounted personal experiences with UAP, emphasizing their surreal nature and the commonalities with other reported sightings.
- Jason shared a childhood memory of seeing a red orb, which sparked his initial interest in UAPs. Lenval discussed his involvement in the UAP Task Force and insights from captured communications implying NHI presence.
Distinct Types of UAP
Greys and Tall Whites
- These entities are often sighted in relation to governmental UAP interactions, particularly in military contexts. Logan noted distinctions between the two and hinted that their cooperation could stem from longstanding arrangements with the U.S. government.
Reptilians and Mantis Types
- Lesser-known entities mentioned include reptilians and mantis beings, with a sense of unease surrounding both. The discussion suggested a complex hierarchy of beings interacting with humanity, shaping various cultural narratives.
UAP's Connection to Technology
- Both guests elaborated on advanced technologies allegedly recovered from UAP incidents. This includes implications for the military-industrial complex and ongoing research for reverse engineering these phenomena.
- Logan presented the notion that non-human technology might vastly exceed current human capabilities, leading to unprecedented advancements in our understanding of physics and engineering.
Personal Experiences and Observations
- Telepathic Communication: Jason described his experience communicating with an NHI telepathically, sharing that the conversation felt intimate and illuminating.
- Public Skepticism and Stigma: A significant concern expressed was the social stigma surrounding UAP encounters. Participants discussed how public perceiving these experiences leads to reluctance in sharing and normalizing such accounts.
The Role of the Government
- The guests discussed access to classified information, indicating that the government is aware of these intelligences but remains discreet about the implications of revealing their knowledge to the public.
- A notable example by Jason detailed how military administrations over the years have handled reported encounters and communicated that these occurrences need to be viewed not merely as threats but as part of a broader understanding of our universe.
Future Implications
- As awareness grows regarding UAP and NHIs, both guests expressed hope for a more open dialogue about these phenomena. They highlighted the need for serious scientific inquiry and public discourse surrounding intelligence not of this Earth to help expand humanity's collective understanding.
Conclusion and Takeaways
- Open-Mindedness: Approach UAP sightings with a critical yet open mind, considering the implications of these encounters.
- Importance of Reporting: Use platforms like the Phenom app to document sightings and experiences to foster understanding and acceptance.
- Support and Resources: Engage with communities that support witnesses to bridge the gap between experienced individuals and scientific inquiry.
In summary, this episode serves as a compelling reminder of the complex intersection between military operations, unexplained phenomena, and the exploration of what lies beyond our comprehension.
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The Joe Rogan. Experience. Train by day Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. Okay. Channel. What's happening? Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you.
Both you guys were in the program, which is a UFO disclosure documentary all about what's going on behind the scenes. Why don't you tell everybody before we get started, Jay, tell them what your background is, what you do.
I'm a retired master sergeant from the Air Force for 22 years, retired 2007, started off as an airframe guy, ended up in Intel and that's when things got strange. I had my second duty assignment as an Intel guy and got introduced to the program and that's how I ended up in the movie as I had some strange experiences that I could talk about.
that were unclassified so I came forward and that's where James founded me and we got it all home pretty good and everything is a history from there.
And Logan, you were in the documentary as well, so tell everybody what you do. So, I am a... Pull this up, two-faced. I'm sorry. It's okay. So, I'm also a retired master sergeant from the Air Force. Started off as a B-52 crew chief, cross-trained into Intel, retired after 21 and a half, and I ended up being part of the UAP Task Force, and I was one of the first people to come across J here, and some other people, and
From that, James found out about me and said, OK, we need to talk. So him and Leslie Keene approached me, and I was like, yeah. But I kind of got out of it by Jay Stratton. Everybody was ganging up around me, and he around him. And he was like, why are you asking me Logan work for me? And everybody went, OK, I guess I'm out. Oh, boy.
So, let's start with you Jay. What was your first introduction to this whole concept that we are in possession of alien crafts or that we have communicated or there's been some contact? What was your thoughts about it before you had these experiences?
I had had a childhood experience with a UFO previous to that when I was 10 years old. So I didn't really get an interest in UFOs at all. I just thought it was strange. I also shared experience with my mother. What was the experience? Well, it was just a red orb that came down and looked like it came from the atmosphere, you know, distance and then kept approaching.
my bedroom window and ended up kind of hovering near the bottom of my street and I was screaming to my parents you know there's a strange light outside and nobody responded so I ran out to get my binoculars my dad's binoculars and ran out to the front lawn and finally my mom was the only one that responded and we both got to see it taken off as it came across the rooftop of my friend Eddie's house at the bottom of the street and that's what she's got to see him another when I
Did it make any noise? Zero noise. Now, it just looked like a total mirror, completely polished mirror kind of oblong kind of a ship or craft. How big was it? It was about 30, 35 foot. Really? Maybe even 40 foot. Yeah, it was about the half the size of my friend's rooftop if you were to measure it from front to back. So, you know, it's pretty big. It was enough for probably your eye to stand up in it and walk around a little bit.
And your mother has the exact same recollection of the experience. Actually, I've been asked to write a book. So I've got her writing her part of that. And I'll have the same thing. I've had another couple of experiences that my family members and other friends will probably write up soon. And so this was all when you were young. And so you had this memory in your head when you started working for the government. But when were you introduced to the whole idea that this is a real thing?
Well, I know it's on mission because I just kind of filed a way that UFO experience at 10 years old for many years. And I just was kind of even skeptical sometimes about, well, maybe it was just something, you know, in aberration in my mind or eyes or something. But anyway, so I got really convinced that this was real when I was at Wright-Pat on a mission.
when I was in the program, and we intercepted some calls that literally were speaking about an NHI presence in the program, and they were working in labs. So, Wright-Pat for everybody, Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Ohio, and NHI non-human intelligence, right? That's correct.
And so they were saying, how much can you say? Is any of this top secret? I can pretty much talk about the culture and the presence of the NHI, but I can't talk about weapon systems and the technology they're developing. That's all going to have to be national security stuff because we don't want our enemies to know what we got.
Of course. So what was this talk of NHI? What did it entail? Well, you first heard it. Well, it was between two people that were talking about the day's interview with this NHI that they had, they called it an Eben.
In an interview. Yeah, he had had an interview with him and he was relaying what was talked about in that interview to another individual. Probably his boss or somebody that is going to pass it on to the rest of the folks in the group or whatever. Do you see this written down?
I did not. I had had it recorded just like you would with anything else that's, you know, it's recorded in such a way that it can stand legal forensic kind of analysis. That that's the level of stuff that you have to do with an Intel guy is you have to be really specific about what you're recording and make sure it's accurate. Even whether you believe it or not, what's going on, you have to be able to transcribe that word for word the way it goes.
So you heard the recording. That's how you found out about this non-human intelligence thing. Well, it was an active phone call. That's what I did on the red team that I was on for the program because I was monitoring for the Air Force. And in this case, I'm monitoring for the program.
Can you say how the conversation went? How did someone bring up non-human intelligence? Was there any discussion before this non-human intelligence of UFOs at all, or aliens at all? Yeah, there was quite a few times. We had a scientist on the team that was an officer. He was a nuclear scientist, and he was able to give us some insights and stuff like that, because we'd have some really strange things like
Things that were turning at 90 degrees and how do you not break that piece of machinery or are not kill the occupants? And we were hearing stuff like that. And they had like very technical parameters that I can't just cannot discuss, but they were talking about these and we'd get the scientist to come and talk to us and he'd say, oh yeah, that's this, this and this.
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and enter the code Rogan, that's meundies.com slash Rogan, enter promo code Rogan for huge, site-wide savings. Meundies, comfort from the outside in. And so how does the conversation go where the non-human intelligence gets brought up? That was just like the two of them that when I picked up the call and started the recording on it, there was some guy that was there at right pat and apparently he had been talking to this even.
And he said, yeah, up to day session, yeah, we've got some more information you need to hear about. This is what is going to happen. You know, he says that there's going to be another meeting and that if we don't return the equipment and the prisoners, there's going to be some bad things happen. We have prisoners. Yes.
This is what they said on the phone call. And the other guy's like, well, hey, what if we can't get them to return all the equipment and the people? And the guy that had given the interview, he's like, you don't want to do that. And the guy's like, well, why? He said, if you don't, they're going to be put to death. And I was like,
I literally stepped back for a minute and I was like, what's going on here? So I had to finish out the call. They talked about sundry other things, the stupid stupid. Can you be a little bit more clear, like who was going to be put to death? The program folks that are responsible for keeping the tech that's not theirs.
and also doing things to these extraterrestrials. How did they allegedly acquire this tech? Retrivals. Yeah, when I was first introduced into the program, one of the very first things they asked me was, do you want to be part of the retrieval program? And I said, well, tell me about it. And when they said the things they said, I was like, no, number one, it sounds gross. Number two, you probably can't give me enough PPE gear and hazmat gear to make me feel safe around these things. And no, I'm not interested in that. Thank you very much.
So how do they describe it that freaked you out that much? They're talking about biological entities that are retrieved along with the crash. Yes. Why do they crash with their so fucking smart? That's always the big question, right? Well, I think the new guy on the block, Jake Barber, he is describing some of the ways that you can do this. Sionically, I guess a sionic team is going to start showing some of that to the world that some of this is some of these crafter are manned and piloted by consciousness.
and apparently they have a scionics team that can actually get in the headspace of these craft and cause them to land. So it's not really a force landing, it's just kind of a mutual thing. So wait a minute, the United States government has the ability to contact or interact with these craft and force them to land.
Yes, and then there's other ones that are done kinetically, which is more the scary side of it than the ugly side of the program is that what you've got here is it's not so much the military doing this, but the corporate people like Lockheed Northrop and all these other companies, they treat this stuff as very high value target kind of stuff, and it's very valuable for them to get the retrieval. So you've got really what
amounts to a bunch of treasure hunters that are hired with mercenaries involved as well that go out for these retrievals. And that's where Jake Barber comes in is that he sees some of these people that are hired to come out and retrieve this stuff and he's done that. So the idea would be that the retrievals would be very valuable because you could back engineer the tech, figure out how it works, make weapons systems, make superior crafts. Exactly.
How long has this supposedly been going on for decades? It's been going on for a very long time. And but OK, so it was born. But if the tech that we have now that allows us to tell them to land didn't exist before, why did they crash before? Like what is Roswell? Well, Roswell.
The most accurate account is the one where the microwave radar waveform upset the onboard avionics inside these craft that these NHI were flying on that day in Roswell. But it just radars just a detection signal, right?
Right, but if you look at some of the stuff like Gary Nolan said about how, you know, even at the very molecular level, these things are organized very minutely. So you can imagine what even a flow of electricity, if it affects it wrong or is at the right wavelength, it does break down the electrical current and the electromagnetic or whatever drive that they might have. And that seems to be what happened at Roswell is that they actually
accidentally went in and we're just sweeping like a radar and it caused this crafted crash. What a shit design. You know what I'm saying? Imagine if you bought a Tesla and the wheels fly off when it rains out, you'd be like, what the fuck? Did you guys have this super advanced vehicle that you can come here from another planet and radar makes you crash? That kind of stuff makes people incredulous, right? I'd like to add something here.
Someone gave me an analogy to say think of it as
There's a type of metal that is totally non-magnetic, but as soon as you put a current through it, it becomes magnetic, all right? And he said, imagine this. You're in Roswell, you're cruising along, you're checking out, everybody's doing their thing. And then, because remember that night, there was a huge electrical storm. That's one of the big things they keep talking about. If one of those things gets hit, and all of a sudden, they slam together because now they're magnetic.
And then they bounced off. And that's why you had one that landed in Roswell area and the one that landed somewhere else. Yeah, there were two. So that was what someone told me. Now, I've never been able to figure out if that's the actual truth. But the two most likely possibilities is that one.
There's actually another person that was approached by, you know, the same race of NHI. And this guy says that they actually recounted what happened is that they thought they were attacked by a directed energy weapon. And then they quickly found out that no, this was just accidental. And this was some sort of a radar system that just caused their
They're on board computer to go haywire for just that second enough to call us to crash that happened. It almost doesn't make sense to me. Because if you were going to go visit an uncontacted tribe in the Amazon, you would assume that they have weapons. You'd assume they have bows and arrows. And if you got hit with an arrow, you'd be like, this is crazy. I can't believe I got shot by an arrow. But you wouldn't be surprised that they have arrows. You would probably read, hey, man, we should be real careful that they might have arrows. They might shoot us.
So if you're visiting the human race and you're so advanced that in 1947, you can come here from wherever, another planet, another dimension, whatever you're doing. Wouldn't you know about radar and wouldn't you have like a system to prepare yourself for storms? Yes, and that's something that might have taken them by surprise because you talked about 1950s, radars were not all that new, but they weren't all that old either. When was radar invented, you know?
Yeah, it was World War II. So it was right around the 1950s, right? Right around the same time. Right. So it may have been unexpected technology for them and maybe they just didn't have their countermeasures up or something. And there could have been some type of arrogance there because think about it. If we, based on our understanding, we believe that they've been coming here for thousands of years. Nothing's ever happened. And then all of a sudden,
All of a sudden this new technology and it caused their ship to crash. So you have to think about the timeframe of when this radar stuff was actually being, and besides that they do not always, I intercept at a different call that states that they do have a periodicity between when they come and go. They're not always here or they're out doing other things I guess. And I treat this like a segment on the Arsenio Hall Show.
things to make you go, hmm, I'm not sure. It just seems dumb. It just seems dumb that radar could take them out. But one of the things about the Vargina crash, which is another James Fox documentary, which is excellent, which is all about the crash in Brazil, which is like heavily documented, including the guy who handled the body wind up dying of some unknown bacterial illness.
that they have no idea what it was. He was a young, healthy guy. He supposedly carried this being, put it in his patrol car, took it to a hospital. They wouldn't accept it, had to take it to another hospital. And then two weeks later, this guy's dead. He got unbelievably sick. There's nothing they could do to help him. They flooded him with antibiotics, all kinds of different things. There was nothing worked. He died very quickly.
When you hear about that story, the big thing was that there was some sort of crazy electrical storms that night. But again, you're going to have a Tesla. You would assume the wheels won't fly off when it rains. You're going to come here for another planet. What's on that planet?
Well, they occasionally have lightning. Let's not fuck around. If they have lightning, let's not go into the storm. If you're in a plane, you can go above the storm. You know how like your pilot says, we're going to take this plane above 45,000 feet to let you know. And then you look down, you can see lightning below you in the clouds. It's kind of crazy. How come they can't do that?
You got me I was born in 63. This has happened happened earlier than I even got there I'm just trying to go off of what I heard on I understand I'm just I just I'm just you know playing devil's advocate or and I agree I kind of had the same thoughts but at the same time You know we've made similar stupid decisions when it comes to battles and I know but I would just assume they're way better than us I
Right I would assume they like you were talking about arrogance. I would assume they don't have that anymore Well, I think that that's true to an extent, but I think also they're very common they have things in common with us as well that they do have you know The same sorts of you know desires to want to live their life well and all these other things
So yeah. Well, it seems like if you want to go and do something, anything, like you want to explore the universe, you want to accomplish things, you want to make technology, it almost seems like some kind of self acknowledgement or some kind of ego has to be present. Yes. Like, otherwise, there's no motivation to do anything. Like, this is the question about artificial intelligence.
We were talking about this, and I said, but if artificial intelligence doesn't have any human needs, it doesn't have any, it doesn't have the desire to spread its DNA, it doesn't have the desire to achieve status, why would it do anything? Why wouldn't it just sit there and just observe and just watch us be stupid? And maybe it would say logically it would interfere if we were about to blow each other up or something crazy like that.
But other than that, why would it do anything? Why would it have any desire to take over? Well, look at us. And this is where I think there's a commonality between us and the NHI. We're intelligent people. Some of us. And then go on TikTok.
I've seen that stupidity, right? Oh, yeah. It's everywhere now. It's typical of what I said. No, obviously we're intelligent and broken. But they probably have a desire for an entertainment, which we do have a great, you know? Oh, yeah, we're very entertaining. We love that. Yeah. And they probably have a curiosity as well. They have to, right? If they're exploring while to they explore. Yeah. So it's whatever it is that made us us, you know, from ancient primates to what we are today,
A big part of that is all these needs and desires and you got to wonder like at some point in time
does that get engineered out of the biological system? And if it does, that system seems like it wouldn't need to explore at all. Unless it's facilitating a process, unless there's a very delicate process where advanced life forms like ourselves are experiencing this new technology. And a lot of the people that are in possession of the technology aren't even the ones who created it.
So they have all this insane responsibility, but they've done none of the work and they have power over this technology, which is what we find ourselves today. It's real weird. Imagine that's a process that all intelligent life goes through as it's evolving all throughout the universe. Maybe they know this. Maybe it's a precarious thing and maybe it has to be monitored because like, oh, you know, star 15, remember that third planet? You know, they fucking whacked the whole planet. You got there too late.
And then we realized, oh, that took like four billion years to make intelligent life that could figure out cell phones. And these dipshits blew each other up. Yeah. And now there's nothing but, you know, microbes, and it's going to take billions of years that it might not even work because they might be too far from the sun by then. And I've run other test kits.
So let's, uh, let's prevent these territorial primates from killing each other. And just maybe that's a thing that they do throughout the universe, like farmers, like, you know, make sure the wolves don't eat the calves, you know, just like protect it until it gets to this next stage.
And I have to say that on mission that I did get that feeling that no matter where the NHI were mentioned, it was not a cup of static free for all exchange of technologies at all. It was very controlled by the NHI. If there was a lab environment, the NHI demanded that no human being in the lab while they're there or watch what they're doing and record what they're doing. And then they would leave and then the humans could come in. So it's very precarious little game they're playing.
So how long have they supposedly been having these interactions with NHIs? I'd say since... I don't like calling them an HIS. I don't like calling them aliens. For me, it wasn't. Yeah, I like just calling them aliens or whatever. But yeah, I think it happened in the Eisenhower days, you know, that that's when it really started to come because that's when they were saying that this UFO came to Holman and landed and actually talked to the president at the time and all that stuff. Imagine a UFO talking to Trump.
Oh yeah, he probably tried to tax him. So my biggest question, anytime someone brings up NHI aliens, my first thing is which one? Which one? Because they talk about it as if it's one entity. Oh, they did that. Oh, they did this. But when you break it down, we're hearing some like us and want us to evolve. Some don't like us and want us to kind of
pull back pull back and they want to control certain things so I'm like well which one and then they look at me with that deer in the headlight look like oh I don't know right so there's the idea that our superiors that the military the top levels of government they even they are not given all the information correct
Because probably we're like a bunch of children. You know, we're like, you're too stupid to figure this out. I'm not going to tell you what a nuclear bomb is, just duck and cover. However, we could be the greatest show in this part of the universe. Oh, I'm sure. We're a great show. Yeah. I mean, imagine when we talk about the things with the nuclear bombs, where the missiles silos, they started counting down or whatever. Maybe it's like, hey,
Let's see how far they'll go if we do this. Right. And everybody gets all excited and then I was like, okay, we're just getting, we'll turn it off and go from there. Well, perhaps, I mean, listen, we run experiments all the time on animals.
all the time, and we have collars on bears, we send them loose. Like, let's follow the bear, where's he going? We do that all the time. We do that with all kinds of species. You would do. And I think it makes sense. It only makes sense that they would do it with us, especially since we literally have the ability to annihilate all life on Earth, and we're pointing at each other. Multiple times. Yeah. Multiple times. Yeah, mad world. It's a mad, mad world. I had that argument with Neil deGrasse Tyson, and he was like, why would they be interested in us? I'm like, why are you talking? We go to the jungle to study a frog.
You know, like, of course they would come here. We're so strange. And we protect the turtles in that one little area that EPA says, oh, no, you can't mess with those turtles. Yeah. Imagine Elon gets to Mars and we do find life there. And we'd be so interested to figure out how it works, what makes it tick. You know, they believe they found actual water on Mars, not frozen water now. Yeah, on the poles. Yeah, I heard about that. That's nuts. Yeah.
Because if there's actual water in there and they can find something in that water that's alive Yeah, but if we don't if we're gonna expand out into the universe, which is what Elon Musk says The fact that we don't have to bring water with us, right? That's huge Brian can marsh water tap water and I definitely drink in Mars water
bro imagine if it's like filled with crazy minerals and you drink a glass of Mars water and you just feel incredible and then we have to shift Mars water from Mars back to LA. That's a war right there. That's a war right there. People are going to be like how come they have it we don't. Right, there'll be water wars. Mars water just makes you go back in time. You look 20 again.
Yeah, you know I mean who knows of the fucks in that water I don't I don't know but those are the kind of things you write though that that's kind of how we are it's that we're very curious about what's on that planet yeah, we can utilize the resources that are there like the water and everything else and We're gonna learn some stuff and but I'm take a long time But I'm really curious about is what was Mars like before it lost its atmosphere?
Me too. And was there a time a few billion years ago where Mars was like Earth? That seems to be what people are saying. That's the craziest of all theories, right? And the most interesting. But if, you know, Earth still exists 5 billion years from now and now it's cold and dead and there's nothing, how much would be left?
How much is left after a couple of billion years? What is really left over? What does it look like? Does it look like Mars? Because Mars looks completely desolate. But we know that Mars had water. And we know Mars had a warmer climate. So you kind of just assumed there was something growing there. What does it look like a couple of billion years later? Probably like Mars.
which is great. If we do find out that Mars at one point in time housed biological life or maybe there's microbial life or something like that that still exists on Mars, just the climate is so harsh it can't advance past that stage, that alone would just change our whole view of the universe itself because then we would start to consider okay maybe this isn't just this one thing that happened. Maybe the Fermi paradox is just that we don't have the ability to detect all these things that are out there.
We don't know. Or maybe they really do pass by and keep their doors closed. Can't vlogs. Right, we're fucking shooting fireworks in Fourth of July. We're nuts. We're the craziest species on this planet. By far, everything else is normal. Everything else just kills what it wants to eat. Everything else, you know, does normal stuff. They fight over resources, but that kind of makes sense biologically.
Honestly after my experience in the program I found that it seems the more I think about it the more that they are very much like us in a lot of ways, but they have
It's probably a world government that we do not have. In other words, they can get along in their own society much better than we can and their former government is not all broken out. I think if you branch out into the solar system and then into the galaxy, like as you start spreading out, if you do become some sort of an interstellar species, you kind of have to be united as a planet.
right you gotta go look at all this bullshit about the this country in that country was let it go let's let it go mean i don't want one world government because i don't trust the government but if i did trust the government like one world governments the way to go everybody should have the same resources everybody should have the same access
healthy food and water and clean air. It should be the same for everybody. It shouldn't be that you can make an iPhone in China because they can make it for 15 cents because people are working like slaves. It shouldn't be like that. It should be like the whole world has the same rules. But the problem is you can't trust the government.
So what do you do? Well, if you get to a point where everybody's so advanced that we don't have all of the same greed and lust and all the bullshit that ruins human society, if aliens get to that point, then it only makes sense that they would operate.
as a planet, but then they would have like their interest in ahead of these fuckers on that other planet. So along those lines, it's those things that you talked about. Those are the things that inherently make us human. So the question would be,
Depending on what we change how you're thinking about right what inherently makes them them and how compatible are we and what we're looking at because those could be some of the things that attract them to us or Detract them away from us. What I'm interested in is Are there things just like us?
is this like if you you know like there's similar plants that exist in similar ecosystems all over the world where ideally the seeds have never been able to get back and forth but they're similar in at least in some ways it's just a matter of climate resources
over millions and millions of years, these same kind of plants grow. Similar kind of animals. There's rats all over the place. There's a pattern to it. Yeah, there's a pattern. At an atomic level, there's a way that things occur naturally and they form different things. So a bird, I agree. I think when I talked about it the first time we spoke on the phone is that, yeah, there probably is a bird, kind of looks like a bird on another part of the universe, but maybe it has two sets of wings or two heads or something.
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On behalf of Boot Hill Casino and Resorting Kansas, 21 and over, age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Void in Ontario, new customers only, bonus bets expire 168 hours after issuance. Four additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see DKNG.co slash audio. Something similar, like, I mean, the birds vary so what? I mean, you can get a sparrow, you can get a fucking eagle or a condor. There's so many different kinds of birds, too. But I wonder, is there
Is this the only kind of way life evolves or are there planets that are just radically different that are planet and life forms in a completely different way? Yeah, I would think that that's true also is that there's exceptions to the rule just like there are here on Earth that we've got some really strange creatures that roam around like people are starting to say octopus octopi and and stuff they don't fit the normal way that things evolve around.
Right. And there's no bones there, so you're not going to find any fossils anywhere. Yeah. But if you think about some of the things that we're being told now, 99% of all life that lived before is all gone now. Right. So if this is what's left, maybe some of those unique things that were out there,
there's something similar because one of the things that I ponder is there's got to be some grand design because when we see these aliens when they whether they talk about it's a gray it's a Nordic it's a draconian or if it's a mantis
They're all standing upright. So is that a part of the grand design that is as intelligent as you get further up the free chain? You start to stand on your two legs and whatever. And then I think about if it's a mantis, whatever, how do they build their ships if they don't really have opposable thumbs and you know,
Those are the things that we're always taught. These are the things that make us unique as humans, and we can build things, and that's why the other animals didn't, you know, the only other animal out there is what the chimpanzee or the gorilla or something primates. But obviously nature finds a way, and it's not human nature, it's something other type of nature, and they do something else. Well, it could be genetic engineering too. It could be that they... We don't even mention that.
They reach some point where they say, well, what's the best structure for a body? A mantis structure way better than a person's structure. We break so easy. Mantis are insanely strong. You ever see a mantis catch a hummingbird at a feeder? Yes. It's nuts, man. You know, taking out tarantulas and scorpions. They're so little and they just snatch that fucker up and you can't move. And like, if you looked at them, like the hummingbird is probably four times heavier, at least probably more than that. And he's just like,
Notcha. It's like that design, the exoskeleton design is superior in terms of durability and also lobsters and crabs and all these kind of insects like that. Dementis regrow limbs.
Oh, let's find that out. All I know is that crabs do. Yeah, no crabs can. Lobsters and crabs, all I think of them is just armored spiders. Yeah, good bugs. And if you think about when they said that the oxygen level was at 30, 35% and some other stuff, they're saying some of these spiders were the size of small dogs. I'm like, yeah, that's not a place I'd like to live.
So they can. So praying mantis undergo incomplete metamorphosis. Sometimes if their cage is too dry, a mantis may have trouble shedding old skin will lose a limb in the process of molting. If it happens, it's possible for a mantis to regrow the lost limb, but only when they molt again. So they molt again, then they regrow that limb, but they do regrow the limb. They regenerate limbs as long as there's at least a coaxa remaining, whatever that is. It won't regenerate right away. And maybe a tiny nub and then they molt it guess.
Wow, that makes sense because the harder shell would prevent that way from continuing to grow. But it just seems like that's a superior form of a structure. So if you get to the point where technology is all done with the mind, right, we've developed artificial intelligence and quantum computing and the being has been generated over genetic engineering to the point where it no longer has to have sex to reap
to recreate new versions of itself. And so instead, the way they procreate is they do it through design. And maybe they say, look, it doesn't matter what you look like anymore. No one's fucking, let's all become mantises.
Right? I need to reset now. This soft shit on the outside. We're like fucking water balloons. We're so vulnerable. Wouldn't it be better if you're hard on the outside? We don't need to use your fingers and thumbs anymore. We do everything with our mind. If it gets to the point, this was the thing that I've heard about people that have supposedly worked on crafts is that one of the most remarkable things that there's no
There's no gears, there's no levers to turn, there's no buttons, there's no controls that everything is done somehow or another where the being and the craft are won. Yes, consciously. I've had discussions about that. Have you talked to anybody that has said that any of the crafts have controls in them?
No, all I've heard. Basic, yes. Basic controls? Well, I was talking to Jackson Foddy about it. There was a craft that did have some place where the hands were in there, but it was only to sort of do some minor adjustments for the craft is what he was describing and other people have described. That's not what I was going to say. There's just all I've heard is that there's been
two places for you to put your hands, and maybe for other parts of the crew, but that's about it. Maybe that's how you don't use your phone, so you don't get distracted, just use your hands. Put your hands down on the thing. So there's no biology in this part of it. Maybe they have something similar to cell phone addiction. So if they're putting their hands on the thing, wasn't that what Lazar said as well? Didn't he say there was something similar to that? Yes, he did. So no controls.
And somehow or another putting your hand on it syncs you up and then they're just using their mind correct Yeah, did they try to explain how this was developed? There's a lot of people that are looking into it now and they're starting to see that yes, it's possible
And I think that's again, some of the new whistleblowers can shed some more light on to how this happens. And I think we need to hear a little bit more about these folks that came forward about the psionics team. And what exactly is this meditation? What are they linking up with? Does it feel mechanical? Does it feel like an entity? Because, you know, when you hear Jake talk about his experiences, he had a really spiritual experience with one of these things. While he was carrying it to the next place, he was literally crying in the interview.
This is that egg looking thing. Yeah, he said that he felt well, it was he called it the eight gone. I think craft that one is the one he had a spiritual eight gone eight gone like a hexagon, but he has eight sides, but are octagon. I think would be the actual term, but he said it had like a eight sided kind of a disc.
So this is not the thing we're talking about with a helicopter. This is a different one. So he encountered a different one. I didn't see that interview. Yeah. Well, the detailed one, I think you can pull that one out of there, but he mentioned that that one, he had like a real no kidding. It was beautiful. And he cried about it because it was so beautiful of an experience.
Wow. And I have a question about all those things because if they can get into our minds, my thing is that how do you know that that's not what they're putting into your head? Because like what they experienced at a skin walk ranch when they saw them.
the creature on the top floor, they said as they approached it, they started feeling fear. And as they approached it further, the fear just kept intensifying to the point where it was like a physical change in the temperature. So if someone can put fear into you, why can't they put love into you and all these different things? And I'm not saying that it's not genuine, but
Part of being on the task force, you have to question everything. Well, we can do that to each other. Yes. You know, we can do that to each other through threats. We can put fear into people. We can do that. You know, there's a crazy documentary called Holy Hell, and it's about this guy who was a cult leader. And one of the things that he would do to these people, he was a hypnotist, too. But one of the things that he would do to these people, he called it the knowing.
and he would put his hands on them and they would say that they would experience God. They had to be prepared for it. It was a thing that was very difficult to get. He had to prove you for it and all these people wanted it and they never got it. It was like a thing he held over your head and then when he actually did it. Even though this guy turned out to be a complete fraud and the cult disbanded, all those people talk about that moment when they had that experience with that guy and they say it really happened.
Because the human mind is weird right and if a person can do that to you by touching you It just makes sense that some like super advanced being would say like what is the best Feeling that I could give to this primitive entity that's studying me to let me know like don't blow me up Don't fuck with me 100% and this is the best expression that you can have in life What is the best expression you have in life is love pure love just pure just
Just untethered love. It would make sense. It would like put that in you so that you would protect this thing.
Mm-hmm, and that may be part of it And I think that's what their desire is just like we you know would try to put our best foot forward if we knew that we were Similarly being scrutinized sure, you know, we'd want to we want to do that when we visit on contact to travel to give him free food Yeah, but just like we're here for you guys, but see that's where my fear is that's why I came forward is that I was hearing stuff that actually brought concern that you know in the way I kind of
package that up is that the military happens to be, unfortunately, the face of humankind here in this situation when it comes to the program. Because it's definitely not the public. We're just, you know, apparently having people come forward with, I got abducted or I saw this and I saw that. But in the military, that seems to be where there is an interface going on.
Right. And I'm just wondering, is that too heavy-handed because they're not seeing the full human? Right. They're only seeing the military humans. Right. And that's why I'm kind of took the tack that I did instead of going through all the other channels. I just was like, let me try something new. Let me talk to the people. I get to know the people, what they feel about this. And I'll just tell my story, whatever happens happens. Yeah, I took some spears.
You know, most of the most part, people are ready for this. People definitely want it. Whether they're ready for it, we'll find out if it actually becomes bigger and more profound than what we've currently experienced. I got asked a question and they said, if you were going to go to Congress and say, here's what we need to know about the U.S. pay experience. What would you tell everybody?
That's a good question. And my answer was, we don't need you anymore. Because so many groups now have caught on that if they attune themselves to whatever it is, they can talk to these things directly themselves. Now, whether it's good or bad, but because of the badness that has transpired over the years, more and more people, like you, you said you don't trust the government,
There's people, they don't trust the government at all in this other thing. So they're like, let's reach out by ourselves. You've got people doing RV and out of the body experience and all that other stuff. You've got people that are being contacted directly. So now they're trying to say things. And also, too, we're evolving.
So as we're evolving and other things start happening, you have to start questioning, why do we need the government in the middle of this? Please don't take this the wrong way because people get angry. It's kind of like the Catholic Church.
I was always told, if you wanna talk to God, you talk to God. But then why do I need a priest? So the government's always been the middleman. So do we really still need him? So when you're saying that all these people have figured out these methods, how to communicate with the aliens, what you're talking about is like people sitting down, this is something I'm hearing a lot lately, sitting down and supposedly summoning them, putting out like an intention and that they will come.
Yes, that happened with you. You ever try it? I haven't yet. So why wouldn't you try it? I tell everybody I'm black and I'm afraid of the woo.
But at some point, I know I'm going to have to embrace it because it is part of the experience. So like, I'm good friends with Travis Taylor. And when we first started talking, he was like, okay, I'd like to talk to you about coming out to the ranch. You and some of your friends, your intel guys. And we talked about it. And then I kind of put it up in the room and said, hey guys,
If we had a chance to go out to the ranch, who would go? And all the white people put their hands up right away. All the black people were like in the corner going, now, let's think about this. You're actually asking. And I sat there and I go, why is it that we're so reserved about going? And I remember something that someone told me was, when the woo happens, you embrace it.
But you don't run towards it because that, whatever that experience is, it was probably meant for somebody else and now you're interfering when you run towards it. Right, so if you summon the UFO, like if they come to visit you, that's meant to happen to you. What if you're summoning them? Yes.
Yes. You may be causing a distraction. So what do you, I mean, people say that, yeah, if I could, if I could experience UFO contact, I would. Well, would you really, because that might fuck up the whole rest of your life, like what if it does happen? And then it never happens again. And then you have a wife and kids and a house and just sitting in your fucking living room trying to pay attention to this football game. When you're thinking about,
I've seen a fucking alien. I've seen UFOs. They've come down and communicate with me telepathically. I know they're real. They're real.
Well, it would ruin your whole life. Remember that movie with Ben Affleck? I think it was called Chasing Amy. Chasing Amy, I remember the name. I don't remember a movie. Not that Amy. No. But there was something that was set in there that always made me think, after you have a first experience, and in this particular case, there was talking about your first orgasm.
you're always chasing after that first best feeling that you ever had. You're never gonna get there, but you're chasing it. And this is the same thing. They could talk to you about heroin too, because chasing the dragon. Yes. So if you're one of those people that had a really profound experience with a creature from another world. Yeah.
You can't really explain it to everybody else. So you're looking for something else to make it seem real, because you start questioning everything that you know. And that's how I was. My first experience was when I was a kid in England, and me and a friend were just throwing a ball, back and forward. And in the old days, people used to wrap the sneakers around the telephone lines.
So I just happened to see that there were some sneakers up there and then all of a sudden I look off in the distance and there's this UAP UFO that looks like an iron.
that you would iron your clothes with. The whole bottom part was glowing. The top part was just dolish-grate because, you know, England, the gray skies, whatever. Was the shape the top like an iron as well? Yes. Yeah. So like a hump to it? He kind of had a hump to it. So I'm sitting there going, well, what is that? And he goes, that's got to be a helicopter because it's just standing there. And I was like, but I don't hear any noise, you know? And then next thing you know, we saw, I believe it was two F4 jets coming because you could hear them. Those engines are loud.
And these two jets come out and this thing just goes, and this is when I was living in Nottingham, England, because I'm British by birth. All right. So, you know, our parents were like, eh, too much imagination, da, da, da, da, da, da. And I just kind of kept it in the back of my head. And then I saw things later and I just kept questioning them. And finally it was like, I'm really going to have to look into this. So how old were you? I was about 10.
10 so you were and you said you were like 10 as well 10 this is one of the things that I keep hearing about This idea that children and their innocence or they're they don't have this blockade in their head to keep them from They don't think it's ridiculous to think about aliens. They're they're they're open to it more We talked about this another program is we get mature. Yeah, we don't want to be fools right so
I believe, and this is just my belief, not anybody's, but I believe from the mid-1950s, all the way up to the mid-1990s, I think there was a deliberate attempt by these entities
to reach out to school children and going to the schools. Because remember the ruin. That one's crazy. That's crazy because all those years later they all have the same story. They all drew the same thing independently. They pulled the side. And then there's the stuff in Australia, there's the stuff in England, there's the stuff in France. I think the Australia one's real similar too, right?
Yeah, I think his name was Preston Dennett. He wrote a book. I hope your viewers read it. Or take a look at it. It's like the top 100 school sightings. And half of it is based on just the sighting. Another part of it is based on the actual thing landing and trying to communicate with the kids. And I sat there just thinking, were they doing that to prepare us for now for when they do come back so we're not so afraid the kids are more open-minded?
I'm not sure, but you have to think about those things and go, you know, can't art your own senior hall. Things are made to go. So those are some of the things that we just started thinking about and going, well, what if? And then I hate to play what if games because my favorite what if is what if worms had machine guns, birds wouldn't mess with them. But you have to play that game sometime and just kind of draw it out and then see if it
If you have a hypothesis that can start repeating itself and then you go, hey, there is something to this. Well, the real question is...
How long have entities been visiting us and are the same entities visiting us over and over again or like the Zimbabwe incident? Is that like the first time that species has ever been here? And did they just seek contact and didn't know that they're dealing with little children in a school? They just knew they were dealing with a group of intelligent beings that they could communicate with? They probably don't even have the concept of a school, right?
Right. So if they're landing, I mean, they probably understand basic culture for human beings, but as they land and interact with people, this might be the first time this species is interacted with anybody. We don't know. I mean, we're dealing with hundreds of billions of stars just in this galaxy alone. And personally, just my belief in it is that we have millennia of these sorts of encounters, all through manuscripts, even towards Washington's got his story.
George Washington's story? Yeah, he met a green somebody before he actually went into a battle. Yeah, pull that up, Jamie. Yeah. George Washington had a UFO encounter. Well, he had an entity encounter. An entity. He just said that this was... George Washington also had lead poisoning. Shane Gillis has the best bit about George Washington. I don't know if you've ever seen it. It's fucking hilarious. But going to the George Washington Museum and seeing George Washington's teeth,
And George Washington's teeth. Well, no, they were slave teeth. First of all, they knocked some of the teeth out of slaves' mouths, and the other ones were from horses. And it was set in, it was all in lead. So they had lead in his mouth. I always thought they were all in.
So his joke is all about like George Washington being fucking mad with lead boys. Like fucking killing everybody. He was out of his fucking mind. It's a great bit. But but the point is like George Washington was being poisoned by, you know, medical science at the time. They didn't know that led was bad for you. Yeah, it's crazy kept lead in his mouth. Yeah, but I know, but like,
makes you wonder, like, what are we doing right now that the future people are gonna go, these fucking idiots were doing that? But George Washington, have you found his account, Jamie?
I mean it's from ancient aliens about the founding fathers. Good enough, solid reference. Ancient aliens. It's legit. Yeah. Get Georgiosu close to say it was wild hair. So all those things that happened to those kids, we don't know if it was.
I mean, we're hearing stories now that they can mess with your mind. We don't know if they're pushing these kids forward mentally. We don't know if they're, you know, dumbing them down because they know that these kids are going to be the ones that are going to make a difference because it all depends on what they're doing. Well, they're all adults now, right? Yeah. Are any of them like real exceptional or any of them like PhDs or something like that? I have not, I have not gone to check any of that. But one of the things that coincides with that that I kind of, I think there was,
Exceptional people usually have to do some exceptional things to get noticed. And I think even if you're exceptional, you may not have fit the right block to get noticed. So that someone would sit there and go, hey, what's going on in your past, whatever. And then there's a lot of these people they just don't want to talk about. Right. Because of whatever the stigma, but now that the stigma is being lifted,
Yeah, the sting was being lifted, but people still live with the haunting memory of the stigma being a part of their life. So I think people that have had an experience a long time ago, even though the stick was lifted, they're still reluctant to talk about it. It's like
There's still people that are in the closet. Like homosexuality is like way less taboo than it's ever been in modern history, right? But yet there's still people that have been in the closet for 20 years and then trapped and they just like fuck and they can't get themselves. They can't get out.
I think for a lot of people that have had these crazy experiences, they probably had some moments where they told people, friends, they got mocked and people called them liars. They felt like an idiot, but I'm just not telling anybody this anymore. Which totally makes sense. Yeah. It's the same thing that's happening on X and other platforms as well as this people coming forward trying to speak their truth. And they get shut down by people that don't have never been there. They're just coordinating.
Yeah, but that's just toxic internet. That's just a lot of hundred percent. I agree with you. I just human beings online. They're just not good at it. We're not good. It's too new. We suck at it. We're real shitty to each other. And too many people, it's like they're mentally ill. And what I mean by mentally ill is if you're on Twitter, 12 hours a day, and you're constantly tweeting before you go to bed, you're mentally ill. You might not think you're mentally ill.
Just like when you're an alcoholic, you're mentally ill. If you're gambling addict, you're mentally ill. You're not well, right? You're fucking trying to bet your house on a football game. You're already fucking mine. You're addicted to the problem. Yeah, mentally ill. You're mentally ill. If you're on Twitter all day, just arguing with people. It's just the nature of the technology and the very crude way that people interact with each other, which leads you to think that as technology evolves, and it gets to the point where we're communicating telepathy through telepathy telepathically, like supposedly they can,
It sort of eliminates the need to even know our language. They can just come and give us thoughts and express things in a pure way without the need to decipher it through syntax. But there's still the worry of misinterpretation because my family was pretty religious. And when I was growing up, they're like, God is omnipotent. God knows everything. God doesn't make mistakes in everything. And then I was like,
Yeah, that's not exactly true. But if you think that God is omnipotent and He's communicating with everybody, how is it that all the leads of a servant church have different views on how we're supposed to talk to God? If God is... Right. Why isn't He just saying... It's the personal experience, really. Yeah. And it's the same thing with the, I think the NHI is that, like you're saying,
You'd like to put a pattern to it, but maybe there's not. There's some very random things that have happened in other encounters, but there's some of them that do seem to be have a concerted effort, a prolonged effort from even millennia, because we do see old stone ancient monuments and monoliths that do have these depictions of what look exactly like graze.
Yeah, you know the craziest one is it in Australia the one that's on the wall where there's all these dudes of the big eyes There's a there's a couple of places where there's a couple of those K paintings that are like that where there's from I think there's some down in South America
I saved one
Well, because I just sent it to Jamie. We take a look at it right here. Jamie, you can throw that through a Google search. You can find out where it is. Or I'll do that while you put it up on the screen. It freaks me out because these people were starving. These people were like barely getting by, right? They have stone tools. And they took the time to draw these things with these like weird helmets on and these big black eyes, which is
very similar to so many different encounters that people have. They all describe a very similar thing, a big head with giant black eyes. So those are the typical grades, but I heard in South America there were people that they showed that picture to them. They called them the AMP people because they said they came from underground.
Yeah. Well, that's, that's the other question. Like we're just sort of assuming that these things are definitely from another planet that they're not here and they haven't been here all along. Yeah. So yeah, this, these are aboriginal drawings or aboriginal paintings. Yes.
Yes. So this is from Australia, which is just wild. And you get them all over the world. All over the world. And real similar all over the world. You got them in Ireland, you got them in the United States, Central America. And the vast majority of those children that saw UAP that came down near their school, if there was an entity that was there, it was usually the typical gray looking ones that were there.
Well, the ones that they saw in Vargina Brazil are kind of similar, but they seem like a darker color. Like it was almost like a purple, right? Yeah, with reddish purple or something like that. But they did have the black eyes and the large heads and they had horns though. They had horns. It was a very specific thing that they said.
The pictures that we're seeing for Varainia, this one had red eyes. And the reason why I'm bringing that up is because a friend of mine contacted me, a mutual friend that we talked about. Oh, okay, yeah, yeah. He was talking about something known as the Dover Demon. And it's over by Dover Delaware. And there was supposed to be an incident where a UAP came down and there was a creature. And it looked a lot like the Varainia creature with the red eyes.
whatever. So he was asking, that's what the vargenian thing was. Oh, that's the Dover demon. That's the Dover. Yeah, that looks like a shoe bill bird. That crazy bird. Yeah, but he said it had bright red eyes. Oh, fun. Imagine that. Imagine running into that thing in the night. Right. So the question was blowing eyes. Never sleep again. Yeah.
Oh, I know is I like a traffic. It does look a lot like the Virginia one, though. Yeah. Go back to that last drawing you drew, Jamie. You pull up, pull that rather. Now, if you can, will you pull up the image of the Virginia drawing? Because they had an artist who talked to little girls that saw that. And those women and, you know, the, the really that look at it. Come on, man. That looks exactly the same. Yeah. And there's those bumps on the head, though. Yeah. Yeah. You can see that maybe that's exactly the same fucking thing, man. Right. Like literally exactly.
So I told Travis, if you ever get me to come to Skinwalk or Ranch, I said, know that I've got a plan. And he was like, what are you talking about? And I said, I will not be the slowest runner. However, I will not be the fastest runner because I don't know what's really going on there. I don't want to run from one thing into another. So I'm going to make sure I have an escape plan. I want the Skinwalk or Ranch.
Oh, you did. Yeah, how did it go? Well, I was doing it for a television show, and we interviewed a bunch of people that lived there, and one guy. There was a lot of people that they wanted to be interviewed, and then when we got there, they chickened out. It seemed like there might be some drug use going on in the surrounding areas. A few people seemed like a little on tilt, but I think that's a good part of America. I think there's a lot of people. You could find some packets of people in America that are just doing drugs.
So I wouldn't say that that was what it was, but this one guy that I talked to didn't seem like that at all. He seemed very respectable. I don't remember what he did, but he was a very smart guy, a blue collar guy, and lived in this very modest house, and he had this story of this thing that flew into his yard and through his house. And he said it was a small orb, and he said it seemed to be communicating with him.
Wow. This guy didn't have any other bullshit stories. You didn't have any claims of just this one experience that he said was beautiful. He said it was incredible that this thing seemed like it was alive. It seemed like it was communicating with him. And it went right through the walls and then it went through the wall again and disappeared. I've had a similar case. So every March I go to Seaside Oregon because they have a paranormal conference and I
I'm not into the paranormal stuff, but my friends are. So I want to listen and I want to learn. Because this is me trying to get over my fear of going in there. You have a fear of paranormal or a fear of being around the people that believe in paranormal? No, the paranormal because of certain things that I've heard from when I was a kid. And you have to overcome some of those childhood fears and stuff like that. OK.
So when I was there, I was giving us talking about my app and all this other stuff. And these two Asian ladies were watching me walk on the stage. And I was like, why are they looking at me like that? And I was like, is my fly down or something? What did I do? And as soon as I stepped off the stage, I said, Mr. Look, what are they? What are they? And I was like, what do you mean? She pulls out on her phone the most beautiful
pristine picture of an orb sitting in a doorway. And I'm like, what happened there? And she said, it was my birthday. And she said, all my family was there. And she said, but I got tired. So I was laying down. And she said, I heard like this electrical discharge going on. And she said, it came right through her wall, started floating across her room. She said, it got to her doorway. She screamed.
And all her family came and the sun, I guess, it was, took the picture of the orb. And I was so amazed by her story, I even forgot to ask her to give me a copy of the picture. How long ago was this? This was like two years ago, weird. So fairly modern phone. Yeah. It was an iPhone. They were from Northern California and they drove up to this thing. And I'm just like, so what happened? She said, it actually sat there and did this,
like a heartbeat, getting bigger and smaller. And then she said, it just kind of went back out the way it came in. And she goes, what are they? You were on the task force, don't you know about these things? And I was like, whoa, you know, we're not, we're trying to learn just like you are. And every year I've been back there twice now. And every year I go, hey, if those two ladies are in here, can we talk? And they haven't shown back up.
But he sounded just like your story of what happened to this other person. Yeah, he was the only guy that was compelling. There was a bunch of other people that had goofy stories of bulletproof wolves that appeared out of the mist and like, okay. They just seemed like some people just wanted to be on TV, which is normal, right? Show up with cameras, people tell stories. And this is another show that I worked on once. It was called Game Show in My Head, and this is pretty funny.
We told people so there was a the game show was we would take a contestant the contestant knew that they're gonna pull pranks on people But they didn't know what the prank was gonna be and so we had a piece in their ear and we would put them out in the public and my thing was that I had to tell them that they are a news reporter and
in that someone had just seen a UFO and had an encounter with an alien right there in Hollywood. But the person who was the witness took off, would you be willing to go on camera and say it was you? And everybody said yes. They all did. And people had crazy stories. They talked about being abducted and being on the ship and experience. And they were communicating with me. They just fully made up stories.
And that was an eye-opener for me. I was like, wow, you put a camera on people. They just are so hyped to be on TV that just bullshit you. Yeah, they can. Because the guy who was in on it was shocked too. Because he was like, I can't believe that these people just started fucking lying.
Yeah, when you're getting grand eyes like that, that's where you kind of have people that do that. It's just when grand eyes are enlarged themselves. Sure. Everybody wants to especially put a camera on people. And with other people like the whistleblowers, I know they're pretty much giving up everything like me. But this guy was not interested in, you know,
much attention. He just wanted to tell us his story. And he was a regular dude. Like we talked about all kinds of stuff. He had a big trout on his wall. He had a trout. Like when they make trophies out of fish, they don't really make trophies anymore. Now that what they do is they take a photo and the measurements and then they make like a plastic version of that fish that looks exactly like it. That's how they do it. But this guy had like a real trophy fish that he had mounted. I'm like, they don't even do that anymore. So I started asking him questions and came to show my head. Yeah, that's it.
Um, but long time ago, but the point is this guy was a sincere dude. He was telling me how he caught the fit. You know, when I'm asking people questions about stuff, I want to know how you think, you know, when I'm talking to some guy that tells me in any counter with an orb.
Want to hear what you talk about like how do you talk about you at work? How do you talk about you with your kids? How do you how do you treat your dog? You know how do you you know I'm saying like I'm trying to like get a gauge of this guy He seems super sincere. She's a regular good guy very accommodating like very friendly you would have made a good analyst Maybe because because the thing that we're trying to do is the all-source analyst is to look at all aspects of what happens
Yeah. And sometimes people just go in there, well, I mean, the thing that really upsets me is when I was part of the task force was someone just handing me a picture and just going, so what is it? Oh, right, right, right. No context, no nothing. You're just like, oh, OK. You know, fake. Right. I don't know what the fuck that is. Let me put it through the image analyzer. Right. You know, I don't know if you've had any mental issues or, you know, right, right. I mean, someone showed me something that it was a button on a glass.
And at first I was like, that looks really intriguing, but there was something about it that was just
It wasn't quite right. And I'm like, I think this is fake, but I don't know why. And then finally the guy said, yeah, you know, but not a glass, you know. I was like, it's a thing that, do you know that field? Have you ever seen photos of miniature cars? Yes. Yeah. There's the autistic kid that does that. Yeah, there's what I was getting at. There's something wrong with the car that even in a photo, you know, it's not a real car.
Yes. You know it's a miniature car. Your brain is very good at that. That's a real weird one because it doesn't make sense. There's a perception. You look at it like, oh, that's a miniature car. It's a fake. That's like a hot wheel because they're really good now. You pull up a photo of a miniature Mustang.
There's there's an autistic kid out there that that's all he does He gets miniature cars and puts them in a real background, but he's not yeah, I've seen that yeah, so these are miniatures Okay, well that that's really good. That's really good. That's a lot better than normal Yeah, but that's really guys are not resting you know flat like there's a weight to the car. Oh, that's a good point. That's a good point
See, those are things as an analyst you look at in the image, it's just you're looking at things like that. Yeah, that's the kid. 13-year-old kid. There you go. Oh, OK, so he's really good at it. He's really good. He's look, other than what you said, Jay, that you don't see the weight of the tires. OK, that one right there, that Nissan. Click on that one, the blue one. Yeah, that's a Nissan GTR.
I'm looking at that. I'm like, that's a fake car. I don't know why. Yeah, that looks like a model. But why does it look like a model? It's got to be that driver's window. It's the decals to me. Everything looks pretty fucking good. Yes. Well, yeah, it looks good. But there's just little details that your mind is picking up on going, eh, it's not quite right. Right.
I mean, there's something about it, right? And what is that? Something about it? This kind of falls into the area, too, of when you do see a UAP, something about it is what's telling you that it's a UAP, but you're also looking in your mind's memory bank to say, this is fake, this can't be real because it's not doing X, it's not doing whatever. And then sometimes you end up going,
It's just not real, I'm throwing it out of my head. And then all of a sudden someone either tells you something that makes you go back and go, oh my God, that thing did that. Somebody beat was real. Or you see something weird about it that just triggers you and you're like, OMG. And now,
your whole thing, your whole view on the whole universe is changing because you're like, I did. That's one of the litmus tests I give people when they, you know, because I have a lot of people that ask me, can you vet this guy? He says he's had an encounter. And then I kind of go through the experience because, you know, the one that I had in the desert, there was a telepathic kind of a thing that happened during that conversation I had with that gentleman in the desert. And there's parts of that, that people have only really experienced it. They actually know about
Like the residual data that or information that's left behind in your own mind Because you're sharing a mind space and things like this and there's certain things that when I ask questions of people that you know Sometimes I can tell right then and there you weren't there, you know, there's no experience But the people that do describe it and I know that they're telling the truth
There's certain characteristics about that communication type that you only get when you've been talking, no kidding, telepathically with them. Right. Well, especially you as a person who's had an experience. Correct. You have something to gauge. There's certain things like in your field, like if you ran into a dude at the airport that was a faker, you know, there's a lot of guys who have put on like fake military outfits and pretend that, and then they get questioned by reading the baller. It's weird.
It is. But people are weird. People will make up crazy stories. So like when you're dealing with the craziest of crazy stories, which is UFOs have been in contact with me. I'm special. They chose me to talk to me. I don't feel special at all. I was accidental. Well, that's probably because it was a real story. So when he first showed up, I was one of the first people to get his... He knows my whole history, man. When he first showed up, first thing I read through everything, I was like,
Hmm. I'm gonna have to run a background check on this guy. Right. He might be kook. Right. And then I was like, so I did the basics and then I called up David Greschen. I was like, boy, do I have a doozy for you? I can't do anything with this guy because there's not enough here for me to do a thorough background check, but boy, you got to listen to what this guy has to say. And from there, David took it on and I was like, he came back to me because
Well, this guy looks to be the real deal, and I was like, holy crap. So we kind of teased that then. So let's get to your experience. Why don't you tell everybody what happened? Just doing my job at Nellis. We had two things we did. We did the telephone monitoring. Where is Nellis?
That's in Nevada. So working at Nellis Air Force Base for the debt three, and that's where the program, they have a shop that of four guys. That was one of them that we go out and monitor for the program.
So anyway, the other side of my job was also doing monitoring for everybody else that wasn't in the program. And when you say monitoring, what do you mean by that? You're actually plugging into like, just like you heard tapping, telephones, all the ways we tell the community, you know, all the telecommunications type, we make sure that we listen to radios, we listen to radio waves.
all that. And we gather it all in. And what we're tasked to do is, you know, say a commander at Wright Patterson, you know, we went to do it. It's always a two week mission mostly, unless it's part of an operation like Desert Storm. And you stay for a month or two and then you change out teams. But two weeks is the standard. So we go two weeks to Wright Patterson. We gather all the information we can and all the telecommunications means. And we also have an OSI team that's trying to sneak in the doors and get into the facilities they shouldn't be at.
just to test the security and that's all we're there for and at the end of the day on the last Friday we go in and we talk to the staff and then about 90 days later we put in a final report and give that again back to the staff and that's kind of how we rolled so
We're going up range. For those kind of things, we don't do the telephone monitoring. When we go up range to the test range at Nellis, that was what we called red forcing. And what our job was there is we were also trained to do combat ops against our own pilots so that we could help them survive in a wartime environment.
And that was done at the top of Black Mountain. And that we call that a little schoolhouse there. And then if you walk up another few yards, there's really this big golf ball looking radars or satellite dishes were up at the very top. But anyway, that's where we were heading this one day. So we all packed up. We're in Beatty, Nevada, which is the burrow in. I can tell you that's where we all is holed up at. And we take off from there every morning to go do the AM and the PM push. That's what you call it when.
The war is on, you call it the push. So we had one in the morning called AM push, one in the afternoon PM push. So we were all heading out for the AM push in a convoy. There's three vehicles, probably about three to four people per vehicle. I'm in the lead vehicle with the ranking guy. He's driving and I'm right behind him and then there's another gentleman in the passenger seat across from the driver and then there's a young lady next to me.
And we're all going up. And the ranking guy had been there the week before. And he had seen the craft fly by. Because that was, and that one's out there on the internet. You can pull down the video. There's a report that goes along with it. This is the video that we can watch right now? Right now, yeah. What would he search? Search for, let me think, Nellis Test Range UFO 1994.
This was filmed by the operators on the range because we're putting these pilots in a risky situation by playing war with them, but we're training them. So if there is any kind of a mishap or a pilot or plane goes down, everything needs to be recorded. Do you have that right here? Yes. So this is being taken, this video is being taken by one of these cameras that's up on the range.
and along the bottom you see that this is also trying to lock on to the craft so it can follow it as it goes in and out because this is the kind of way that you want to track if there's a craft that is having problems. This is moving very radically.
Right. So this is what my, the ranking guy saw. Can I pause for a second? This tracking, is this manual or is this like this automated system? It's an automated system. So the automated system is having a hard time locking on locking onto it. If it locks on, you'll see a big spike. And that means that it finally locks on right now. It's trying to, but something is stopping it from locking on. And they think it was the craft.
It's moving like crazy side to side all over it. There's actually a recording that goes with it where you hear the guys going, hey, does anybody know what this is? What's going on? Can you hear that?
I don't know.
OK, the sound is terrible. They need better mics. Honestly, it has to be a podcast marketing. Oh, I'm sure. But he's saying, what is that? I don't know. We're having a hard time locking onto it. Right. This is the video operator. So the following week after this happens, this video is taken, the ranking guy who had been there the week before and saw this thing flying.
He takes us in, when you go on the range through this one gate here, it goes up a little ways, and then there's a contoman area. It's got a very small place where you can change your tires, get gas, you know, minor maintenance to get you but home if you have a car that's busted.
And then in the back of that contaminant area, there's two huts that look like campers, really, glorified campers. So the video operators are in the one that's off to the north east of the contaminant in a very corner of it. And the ranking guy just says, we all have to go in here. We're going to go talk to the video operators. We have to do this.
And this was because the week prior, everybody came back to Garrison, or back to our unit, and they had seen this thing. And they were all talking about this UFO. So we go in there, and there's the video operator. He has us all write our names down, whether we were there and saw it the first week or not. Then he mixes all sit down and watch that video. And he says, do you know what this is? And we're like, no. And then he just said, OK, thank you. And then after everybody that was there,
saw it and had wrote their name down, we were allowed to leave. And that was all that was required. And so I was like, what was that all about? But then as I'm exiting, this lady that had been sitting against the wall on the far part of this little hut that we were in. And she like grabs my arm and she just says, there's somebody on the range. Don't talk to them. And she was really, really freaked out.
And I'm like, thanks, strange, freaky lady. Got it. And I'm like, whatever. So we all hop out, we get in the vehicles, and then start taking off towards Quartz Mountain, because right at that Comton area, there's a hard right. There's a hard right that goes off to Quartz Mountain. And about a mile, half a mile to a mile, down that road. It's all dirt road up, by the way. There's this guy. It looks like he's wearing a uniform like we are.
got battle dress uniform on. So he sees us and he starts to look like he's running and he's got this really weird run like his arms are kind of flailing behind. It's like he was running against a hurricane wind and it was like he was going to fall over at any time. And I was like, yeah, it's a bit windy today, but ain't that bad. So it looked really strange. And then I began to notice his skin tone looked like he might be hypothermic. And I'm thinking, oh crap, this dude's been out here. It's freaking freezing out here.
because it was a very cold day. And when it was blowing, it was, you know, those cold days where it didn't matter how many layers you had on. And so as we're getting closer, I'm talking to the ranking guy, hey, we need to slow it down. So anyway, I'm thinking this guy's probably in big trouble. I need to pull off my jacket. I need to give him something to get warm.
real quick. So I'm starting to do that and we're approaching and by the time I get my jacket most of the way off, he's right there at the corner of the front of the car. So he looks pale, is that what you're saying? He looked like an albino with a very bluish kind of undertone. So you're assuming you're immediately associating that with like he's freezing.
Yeah, because that's, that's all I could equate it to. And then, um, as I'm starting to open my door to try to, you know, administer aid to this guy, um, the dude in the front passenger seat screams, he's got no ears. And I thought that was pretty rude. Cause I was like the guys in prison, they have a hat on. He's got a hat on and he's got B to use that look absolutely clean pristine. And when you're up range, you do not wear your cleanest uniform.
You're in a dirty environment. You wear your scuffed up boots. You don't take them with you. So he's got a clean battle dress uniform. Everything United States military. Very out of place. Yeah, it looks very out of place when I finally do it. But anyway, I step out onto the roadway and this guy screams that he's got no ears. And I just think it's really rude. And then it closed the door and I look up and he's got no freaking ears. And his eyes are twice as big. And I just am like, yeah, what the hell did I just walk into?
This guy's not from around. How far away from him are you? Probably from me to love. Just a few just talking distance. Okay. And I'm starting to freak out, but then he starts to talk to me. And it's not my language, but it's coming to the understanding is like coming into my mind about every word he's saying. Because he's actually saying words.
He's saying words, but it doesn't sound like anything I've heard before. But you're understanding what he's saying. But I'm understanding. So I know there's a telepathic thing going on here, and it calms me down at the same time because I'm having to respond to him. And he's like, hello, I'm having trouble with my craft. I need some repair material. Do you know where I could find some Trentium? And this is what he's talking to me about. And I'm like, you mean titanium? Because I didn't know anything about Trentium at the time.
But titanium, he's like, no, it's not it. And I'm like, well, at this point in my career, I had just left the program. So I knew where Dreamland was. And I pointed to the mountain range, because you can see for days in the desert. But I pointed towards the mountain range. And I said, Dreamland's just over there. And this wave of emotion hit me like disgust. Like, I am not going to talk to those barbarians and murderers.
You know, and so he was saying that to you and his reaction to going to the military base exactly. Yeah, I was not like it. He said I am not going to talk to those people. And then I was like, well, she and it was barbarians and murders. He literally that was what he called them. Yes.
And mentally, that's what it was. But this is emotion. Trentium, is this a real thing? Well, that's what I've had a lot of friends. There's analysts also that were on the top secret network that were trying to help me understand what material they're throwing everything at. And we're like, is it best?
is a business. And then finally, that's the one when they hit Trintium, I was like, that's what it was. That's what he said. And what is Trintium? It's a type of, well, can he bring it up on the? Yeah, sure. Yeah, because it should pop up on Wikipedia pretty quick. But it has some properties that probably. Are you saying Trintium?
Yeah, Tridium is, that's the stuff that's in loom. Like in your watch, when your watch glows, or they make those where they, they're basically radioactive isotopes that stay lit. So like if you get like a marathon watch, marathon makes military watches and the, it doesn't need like this car, this watch, you need the light and light charges the loom. And then when it's dark out, you could read the hands for like a few hours.
that has to put on the end of the guns, right? Exactly. They still do. A lot like SIG has on their guns. Look up Tritium also put it in this. I did that. That's not giving me much. So Tritium, chunky glow in the dark glitter. These are all like these are game websites. Oh, I say. OK, so it was Tritium then maybe mispronouncing it. But Tritium is that's that radioactive isotope. That's the stuff that emits light. Yep. So it emits a weak form of radiation.
Yes. A rare radioactive isotope of hydrogen with a half-life of 12.3 years. Mm-hmm. OK. So this is what he's asking me for. So he's asking for you for that stuff? Tridium? Yep. And I'm like, I don't know where to get that. Oh, look at that. It's used in boosted fission weapons and thermonuclear weapons. Oh, great. That sounds pretty good. I wonder what the fuck it's doing on your wrist? This is what the best image that we have of what he could have looked like. Oh, boy.
Can you send that to Jamie? Yeah, I don't know Jamie's number, but I will find a way to.
Yeah. Is that an iPhone? If I had my phone, I would, but it's out there, I think. Yeah, airdrop it to Jamie. Do you know how to do that? There was a three-dimensional image of the craft as well that is really spot on from what I saw that day. Yeah. Because not only did I see this guy running towards us and talking to him, but off the shoulder on the north side of the roadway, that's where the craft was just resting on the desert floor.
And that's I got a really good look at it at that point. And this guy did a 3D rendering of the description. And it's like it's spot on as I've ever seen. It's almost perfect. So he asks you for tritium. You tell him dreams. This is what it looked like. This is what the guy looked like. Pretty close to it. The nose was a little bit rounder on the end, but that was a really good rendition.
But yeah, his eyes just, his eyes almost came out to here on the temple. Wow. And that would freak me out. It freaked me out. I mean, honestly, I'm not an easy guy to get, you know, to get freaked out, but that really put that like you're, you're, you just saw an alligator pop up out of the water. Right. So when we tell him go to Dreamland, it says, I'm not going to go where those murders and barbarians are. And then what happens?
And he said, no. So I was like, well, where else can I possibly point him to? Because I'm like, I don't know any metallurgists or whatever. So I'm thinking to me, to myself, and I relate to him. I said, well, I'm taking classes down in the city of Las Vegas.
at the community college, but I have a geophysical professor that I'm, you know, taking a class from. Maybe he has a metallurgist friend and he's like. So you're thinking at this time though, it's a metal. I am, yes. Right, because you're thinking it's some kind of like titanium, some type of. Right, right. And there's also, this is the 3D image with the craft. That is almost as spot on as I've ever seen. That is about it right there. That's almost exactly what I saw rusting on the desert floor.
And so you're trying to find different people that you can connect this being to. Yeah. And what is it saying to you why? He thought that that was a good idea, I think, or he was like, hmm, I mean, made him, he was, he had that kind of, hmm, and he wanted to take action. So he just, he doesn't really even say goodbye. He just kind of turns and off he goes back to his craft.
And I'm thinking, well, okay, and I get back in the car. And sometime during that conversation with this entity, I remembered looking over at my friends in the car, and they had the weirdest look on their face like they're all zonked out, totally zombied. Like they couldn't even, they were just drooling on themselves. Were they just because they were flabbergasted? Or was it because something was going on?
Well, I've figured out that maybe it was done by this entity because none of them seem to even remember the incident. Only a few people seems to remember that we stopped, that we had talked to somebody on the roadway, but it was mainly the people that were in the back of the convoy.
So they didn't see it up close, like you did. Right, like we did. The people that were right there. How far away would they be? They'd probably be a good two car lengths behind us. That's still enough to detect whether or not someone looks blue though, right? Correct. And that's probably what they saw. But you know me, I'm kind of wide and I'm big. I was very muscular back then. And you're standing in front of this thing. So they'd have a difficult time because this guy stood about a good half foot shorter than me.
And so they probably could see his arms from time to time, maybe kits a glimpse of his face or something. So they probably didn't get a very good view because if you're looking at me, I'm standing right next to my door. And they're behind me, kind of almost obfuscated by just the angle that they're looking at him.
So all the windows are tinted in those vehicles, and they can't just see through the windows right to whatever's on the left side. And the people that were in the car with you, you feel like something happened to them that like froze them? They did look like that, yeah. Like you said, just a look of just utter like, the guy who said it has no, he has no ears. Does that guy have a recollection? That guy, they can't find him. They can't find him.
No, I was asked by the UEP Task Force, David Grush, to reach out to these folks, the people in the car. I got a hold of one, got a hold of him on LinkedIn, and we started talking, and, you know, just how's the wife, how's the kids, that kind of stuff. How much that UFO we met? And as soon as I did that, the guy just disappears and goes to me.
And I can't, I don't know what happened. But he was the ranking guy in the car. The guy that was the passenger, nobody can seem to find him because they did try to verify the people in the car and I gave the names. And the young lady that was off to my right, I don't know if they contacted her, but I've heard from other people that were part of this background investigation about my story.
They found two people that verified my story and I don't know who they are. They've been told to keep their mouths shut by somebody and I'm kind of pissed about that. But I think James Fox knows who they are and knows exactly who told them to shut up as well.
What was that incident where James Fox and you were on a show? What's that? I shouldn't have said that James Fox knows the guy who told him to shut up because I'm not sure if that's true. You think you might know. So this thing, does it tell you why it needs a tritium or just says it needs it to fix its craft?
Yeah. Well, along with that, this is the other part that was telepathic. When he mentions this metal and the part that is needed. But it's not metal, right? Do we think it's not metal or do you think maybe it's a metal that we don't have? I think it's something or an alloy that we don't particularly make a lot of and or just can't make. But when he spoke about this, the telepathic image was almost like he opened a Sears catalog in my head that had all the specs for this part that he was needing fixed.
and it was the strangest thing. It like described some of the nano channeling of electrical and electromagnetic stuff that was flowing through it that caused these toroidal energies to emanate on both sides of this piece of the equipment.
So you, because it was describing it to you, you all of a sudden had access to all this information, like downloaded into your head. It was like me, if you and I were telepathic and we were talking about a science project. And he just uploaded all the information. Yeah. Yeah. And I could just give you all that instead of talking it out. That's what he did. Did you then try to talk to someone and relay that information and like download it?
I've had, well, once, because in the forum, we have scientists and stuff like that that, yes, we're very interested to get me in a room and talk to me about this. I had people from DARPA wanting to talk to me, people from people from threats, departments all over the place that wanted to know more. And even when I talked to Jack Cerfati and Gary Nolan about this stuff,
I was telling them things before they even opened their mouth about like when I talked to Gary Nolan, I just said, you got that part and you know that it has that nano-sized atomic level layering that can't be reproduced unless you actually physically are putting these atoms one at a time next to each other.
And he's like, yeah, yeah, that's it. So I'm telling him this, and he already knew. But that was the first thing. And so that's why I knew that what I'd been given in my head, he was giving me that high sign that, yes, that's exactly what I analyzed as that piece of material I had. It sounds just like what this guy described to you and gave to you telepathically.
that these really minute little things that create toroidal forces. They're doing things at a very small level. And then I talked to Jack Sarafati later, and he's got all these fantastical physics equations about how things work. And I'm looking through his documents, and no, I can't do the math, but I can understand what he's doing with it. And I just flat out asked him, I said, so the smaller you get,
because there's always that resistance level when it comes to, you know, putting in energy and then losing it due to, you know, atrophy and all these other things that work for it. Anyway, the whole thing was this that when you get smaller, it actually reverses itself. Is that now you get even more power out of things. If you have a small enough energy source that works out of various, it's kind of like miniaturizing a fusion device of some kind.
And so did you talk to someone from DARPA? You said these people wanted to talk to you? I emailed back and forth again what information I could. They didn't want to interview you. They wanted just email. At the time, that's the way it went. I've had a couple of meetings, though, with different places that I can't discuss. But they did talk to me. Yes. And is that information stealing your head? Yeah.
So does it seem like a memory or what does it seem like in your head? To me, it's like a very clear, like this is, it's just like a picture that never goes away. Could you draw that picture if someone gave you a pad and a pad? Yeah, I've already done it, yeah.
Is that available online? Could someone see that? I don't know if I pulled that down off the top secret network, but I can reproduce it. All I did was just recreated in like a PowerPoint draw thing. But does it remain in your head like normal memory? Like, you know, like you learn certain things in school. Yeah, the telepathy felt absolutely normal. I mean, there was no headache. There's no dizziness, no buzzing. What I mean is, is the memory the same as a regular memory? Oh, yeah.
No, I remember it as just being part of the conversation, just like a normal conversation. That's what it feels like. But it just somehow or another in that conversation, he put this information in your head. Exactly. And then it just leaves.
And then he leaves when he realizes that maybe there's some other venues, maybe mentioning that there might be a metallurgist on staff somewhere that prompted him to think, oh, yeah, maybe I should go research this or that. And then maybe I'll find somebody that I could talk to. Something like that may have happened. Did you get a sense of where this thing was from?
Yeah, there was a star map from that day, but it also relates to the lunch hour after we started going back up to Black Mountain. I had a very strong compunction to go eat my lunch outside, even though it was deathly cold. And I don't know what prompted me to do that. Again, maybe he was giving me a telepathic message, but
After I walked about 150 feet down the road, the dirt road from the top of Black Mountain, I don't remember what happened after that. All I have are two images that keep on flashing back. I remember seeing the schoolhouse from about 150 feet above or 200 feet above the schoolhouse. I remember looking at the rooftop.
And the only other memory is I've got this star map in my head. And David Grush made me reproduce that on a PowerPoint slide. And I handed that into him because I have no idea what it was. But he's like, do you understand what this is? And I was like, no, I have no idea. He's like, do you know what star constellations are? I said, I know what the big dipper is. That's about it. And he's like, this is the constellation Leo. And I'm like,
Oh, I didn't know that. And so he's like, yeah, this is a really close rendition of that. I'm like, well, that's kind of cool that I could reproduce it just out of my head and not even know what the heck it was. But I did know it was a star system. And for some reason, you just felt compelled to draw this particular star system.
Well, just after David Crush asked me to, yes. And was there a specific planet in that star system? Yeah, the red star, that's kind of like, you know, there's a part of the Leo system that has like this, like, very sharp turn into it. I guess it's like it looks like a nose or part of a triangle. And at the tip of that is the red star and it's reticuli, I think.
But anyway, that one seemed to be... What did I always say about Alien Zeta Reticuli? Yeah. And then the strangest thing about this, this is what I'm talking about when it comes to telepathy when you're sharing that mind space. There's some residue memory there because Dave kept pressing me on it and he said, can you tell me about the Red Star? And at first I'm like, well, known and I was like, and all of a sudden some memory came back and I was like,
Holy crap. Yeah, that's where he's from. That's his home star system. And he came from there. That's his home. And then we just went on from there and he said, did you know that they've actually just now discovered a few years ago that there are exoplanets around that star?
And I was like, no, I had no idea. So all these things started coming together at that point. And that's when they started saying, OK, well, we're going to do some more vetting. And within about a month or so, they were bringing me to Congress and everything else happened after that.
What is the rest of your life like after that day? So you have life before you experience this creature, and then now you know that this is a thing. It's a thing, yep. And it changed me.
How do you explain this? If you could imagine the entire human race, you and me, you don't have to talk to me, but you can feel my presence, you can feel who I am, my personality, and sharing all of that. And then imagine that by millions, the entire planet, you can actually commune with them. It brings with that a level of civility in the control of your thoughts, because
Right now, we don't read each other's minds. So our minds are like, oh, look at that girl. Oh, look at that, you know, the sports over here. There's a football game on. We're so distracted. But this guy's, when I was engaged with him telepathically,
It was like civility to the maximum. It was like very courteous. He waited for me to say. He, he talked. And it was like, just like we do, we have certain etiquette. But on top of that, there is this part of him that he left me with that was part of the community of the consciousness that he is able to feel all the time. And that has never left me is that there's a community of consciousness out there that
when they've been living for so many years with this sort of ability, it has changed them for the better because their minds are under control, finally. Their emotions aren't running them. Like you were talking about addictions and things like this. They don't run their lives like that anymore because of it. And if you do, they end up in a criminal list somewhere, I would imagine. But ever since then, that feeling of peacefulness and civility is what I'm strived for.
Never has left me. Never has left me. Wow. Um, it stays with you, but what, like, what is your experience trying to relay these thoughts in this experience that had to be weird in the sense that like it's very hard to believe. I mean, I believe you, but it's very, it's, it's one of those things where, you know, you took what you talked to an alien. Like that's most people are going to think you're ridiculous.
Well, yeah, and honestly, that's why I need people to back me up on it because this is the thing that we're trying to do with the whistleblowers. We all kind of know each other, just like Logan would tell you, just that, I call them low for short sometimes. It's a slip up. Understandable. Anyway, we get to talking about stuff that we don't know what's going on daily with each other. It's like I've brought whistleblowers forward to Congress since I went forward.
But I don't know their lives. I don't talk to them every day like I do some of them. And it's a strange thing. But the more we seem to be coming out now that we've got these few weeks now where we've got folks like, you know, Jake Barber and folks like that coming forward. Now I'm starting to piece things together in my mind because now I'm hearing his side of the story because I didn't want to be part of the retrieval. Well, guess what? He was on it. And he's telling that part and I'm like, Oh, no wonder they did that to me at all. That's that makes sense. You know, now I'm making those conclusions now because of what he said.
But then if you try to put us all in a room, we're all deathly scared that some jerk is going to come out of the Department of Defense and shoot us all or do a drone strike on us and kill us all, just have done with it and then get on with their lives again. So you've got this problem here with us coming forward in a group. You're really worried that much that someone would try to take you out. They've already messed with my clearance. They've already shown me that they can break into my car on the NSA campus.
They're letting me know. They were trying to intimidate me. Because they don't want you talking about this. Exactly. But do you know why they don't want you talking about this?
Yeah. Why? It's because they know that what they have done, that there are some parts that were really bad decisions in the long run. And they don't want anybody to crack open any part of this because they know it's going to cause questions to happen. And they're going to get put on the spot. Okay. So you finally are coming clean on the fact that we've got any child here, but we've got other whistleblowers that have these concerns. That's what they're going to have to face.
And when you say bad decisions, what do you mean by bad decisions? Well, think about it. If Roswell did happen, what'd they do? They chop up some, you know, think about it. You'd have etiquette if it was a Russian craft that fell. You'd catalog every part of that craft site, and you'd repatriate the dead bodies to where they came from. We'd give them back to the Russians in honor. And here we are. We've got a civilization just crashed there in Roswell,
and look at what kind of crap we did to them. And we took all their stuff like it was some kind of a treasure trove. And now we own it. Hell no. You're talking about a craft that was manufactured on another part of the galaxy or something that they can't explain. Nobody knows where it came from.
And here they are treating these people like they're just some kind of a lab experiment. Let's chop them up a little more, you know? And then, you know, if they ever got approached by the people that came to look for them afterwards, I wouldn't want to be the person that answered them, well, I'm sorry, we chopped up your buddy. We had an interesting talk about this. There's a video online where it shows like some gray kind of strung up and they're asking him questions and whatever. And I was asking him, I said,
If you were an NHI and you saw that, and this is what the humans are broadcasting, sorry, and this is what the humans are broadcasting, I said
I'd be like, yo, they got Jimmy. Look what they're doing with Jimmy. Right. It's on. We're going to earth. You know, we're going to go get Jimmy. Video of the alien. That's fake, right? The video of whether I truly believe it is fake because like we've looked so fake. Everybody says they talk. Yeah. They talk telepathically. And here he is. Oh, here's this voice coming out to whatever. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's but.
where we've always assumed that they've got the same type of, some type of emotions a lot like us, but maybe they're much more controlled, much more refined. Kind of like how we can, not that I'm saying it. Kind of like us now versus us 50,000 years ago.
Yeah. Well, honestly, when I had the telepathic experience, it was very difficult for me to distinguish what emotions and feelings were coming from me as opposed to him. It was very obvious when he felt disgust about going to ask about things because I was like, well, I'm not disgusted at him. And I had that ability to go, that's not me feeling that it must be coming from him.
Right. But it was your emotions. Right. But everything else felt like we were sharing literally not only the thoughts but the emotions that went along with it. It was a true sharing of a mind space. And he felt just like me. His inner voice is just like my inner voice. His feelings are just like our feelings. He feels sadness. He feels all the things that I do. What is the general consensus in the people in the program about Roswell?
They don't like talking about it. I think that was where they probably are trying to bury it even amongst themselves because they know they made some very bad mistakes about that first confrontation that could have been a lot better than what happened. So the general consensus is that this is a real event.
Yeah. And they don't like talking about it, but does everybody sort of agree? Or are there people that are dissenting? Do they have dissenting opinions about whether or not it's a trash show? And they've heard of dissension. I've heard people say, I don't want to talk about it.
They don't want to talk about it, but that it wasn't ours. Great. Well, the only thing this is, again, when we talk about the intel analysts and everybody else that was on that forum, it's totally weird that you can go through all these different things as an intel analyst and say, OK, it's not China. All right, it's not that. All right. Let's look at Russia. Anything. No, it's not Russian. Is it one of ours? Well, hell no, it's not one of ours. Well, who the heck is it then?
Does anybody talk about it? Is there anybody that has shared information about Roswell to you? Yeah. Is there anything that you could talk about? No. No. It's all top secret. I just gave the person the confidence that I would not mention. Got it. Got it. And Logan, have you had personal experiences other than the one when you were a child?
Yeah, but I didn't know what I was seeing, but after the program came out, I mean, not came out, but after James Fox finished editing everything, he said, well, you haven't seen everything put together, so here you go. And tell me if you don't like the way you look or whatever.
and I'm going through it, and he starts showing, I see the stuff about Calvin. The Calvin, um, Scotland, uh, image? Have you seen that one? Yes. So that image was taken, if I remember correctly, in August 1990. Pull that image up? Yeah. Yeah. You can just type in Calvin, UFO, whatever. So I'm going, I had just cross-trained from, yeah, that one. I had just cross-trained from,
maintenance into intelligence, and I was going to my first intel assignment. And I'm flying from Philadelphia to Frankfurt, Germany to run my airbase. Somewhere between Iceland and Scotland,
This thing is zipping around in the clouds doing this ziggy zaggy thing. I don't know what he was doing, but he was doing this. The sun was just coming up and I'm eating a Philly cheesesteak and the other guy's with me is eating a hoagie and the other guy that's standing up over the top where I'm like, anybody know what that is? And they're like, dude, what is that? And then all of a sudden in my head, I'm like,
Oh, this is my first Intel assignment. I'm gonna get clued into some cool ass shit But I don't know what the hell that is but I'm just thinking it looks just like that It looks just like that and the way it was moving into clouds It was like because the shadow is like going from like that color to like dark
And then light again as it was moving in and it would go into a cloud on one vector and come out on another vector and I'm like, what is that? So didn't know what was going on. So I called James back. I was like, dude, dude, where's this talk to me? You know, we're all excited. And he goes, explain to me everything. And what happened was I got to my unit.
When I talked to them and I go, we have a weapons tactics guy. They're the best of the best and they're leading the group. And I was like, so what is that thing out there? And he goes, I have no idea what you're talking about.
Now, this is in January of 1990. That picture is August of 1990. And what I didn't realize was that the Belgian wave, I don't know if you were familiar with that, a whole bunch of triangular devices were seen over Belgium for almost a whole year. So they just call it the Belgian wave.
police officers saw it they launched f-16's after them whatever the photographs of that at all uh... no but the general that's in charge actually gave a briefing to everybody and showed what the f-16 radar was seeing and i guess every time they tried to get close to it it would just pull away just far enough you know that they can catch it and then when they would try to cage it in the radar system it would move to the left and you know it was it was playing with them
But I didn't know any of that, so I just kind of was like, eh, okay, I'm stupid. Maybe it was part of my imagination, but what I saw as a kid kept coming back into my head. So, Desert Storm happens, whatever, and I'm at my base, and British AWACS shows up.
They're looking at me there. I still had my accent my British accent. They're looking at me going What are you flying with the yanks for? And I'll go what do you mean? They said You know and I told him my my family thing. They said why don't you come fly with us? I'm like Sure, let me ask my boss. My boss says you ain't got nothing going on go fly with them So we're flying around and finally I go I go hey guys
What's that thing in the sky that does the ziggy zaggy thing? Do you know what I'm talking about? And they're like, you know. And I was like, no, I don't know. They'll play with me. And they're like, come on, Logan, you know. And then finally they pull out this tape and they plug it in and it shows Europe, all the aircraft flying around.
And you see this thing go through the middle of it real fast. Like all the other aircraft, the sweep of the radar, you just seen these minute movements. This thing is like, it's gone. And I was like, who's that? And they go, you know, I was like, look, stop playing with me, you know, kind of find out. They said, well, that's your ASAR 71. And I was like, well, that ain't him. And they're like, okay. And then he looks at the other guy and he said, show him the other one.
And they show me this radar scope again, and this time there's a target in the middle, not in the middle of the screen, but off to the side. It was like, could have been like East Germany or whatever. But every sweep of the radar, he was somewhere else.
And I was like, that guy, I was so excited. I said, that MF right there. Yeah, who's that guy? And they go, you know, look, stop this. I don't know. And they finally said, we don't know either. They said, we just assumed it was you Americans playing with us. We don't know a lot of times. Yeah, we don't know. I was curious to think that too. Everything's America if they can't explain it. Right. Did you see the Trump administration address the drones today?
We heard about it, but I didn't see it. Yes, I had a friend tell me they made an announcement, but we were getting in the car at the time. Yeah, essentially they said it was all ours and there was some sort of scanning that was done that was approved and the other ones were hobbyists.
and some sort of test that they were doing, but they were saying that it's ours, which is very, the whole thing stinks. It does, because stinks. I actually had, I actually had
a person that was up there, and she said, one of those things came down low and slow over her house. And she said it had the sound of a helicopter. So she was like, her and her husband were like, oh, you know, it's a helicopter. But then all of a sudden they realized, she said, Mrs. Logan, were you ever air crew? I said, yeah, I was in special ops and I fell on helicopters and da, da, da, da.
And she goes, when it came down low, it had the sound of a helicopter, but you couldn't feel it. And I go, huh? She goes, you know, when you can feel the rotor wash and it's hitting your chest like, boop, boop, boop. She said, there was none of that. She said, it came down slow, low over a house. And then it went back up. And then she said, it looked like it went back into formation with something else. And she said,
That's not any drone I know of and she said it sounded like the the actual noise of the helicopter and several of the other noises from the drones were all pre-recorded just to make them sound like they were conventional aircraft. And those are the same things I've been hearing too because a lot of people are shoving videos at me a lot in their descriptions of things and some of the stuff you know looked like maybe it could be a spotlight from a helicopter and then when the light
Moved then you could finally see the helicopter behind the light then there was these other ones that was like This is really weird my friend mark saw one mark Norman what how did he describe it Jamie? He said it was triangular, right? I'm saying SUV size. Yeah, he said it was the size of an SUV. He said it was triangular said it moved really fast and
So when they initially came out, they said, oh, they're all manned, all right? I think it was John Kirby, he was the speaker. And I used to work at the FAA, so my first thing was, well, if they're manned, you just call them up and say, cut it out. Simple. But it kept going on. And then later on, there was a report that DHS said,
Oh, one of the drones has come down in a mall parking lot. But DHS has assessed it's just a regular drone. So when you hear that, what are you thinking? DJI, Mavic, something small, whatever. So one on X is on a train going by that exact same spot. And they show a drone next to two police cars. And this thing is as big as the police car.
And I'm like, so I have no way of confirming if that's what it really was. But I have no reason to believe that this particular person was leaving. He said, you guys, I don't know what you guys are thinking, but I'm passing that mall right now and take a look.
And it's like a maybe a 30 second clip or something and you see this thing. It's as big as the SUVs. So what does it look like? It looked like kind of like a gondola with like large blades on the four corners.
So it looks like a very large conventional drone. Very large conventional drone. So I'm sitting there thinking, was this a test that nobody knew about? What is going on? And nobody got any answers.
Well, the other thing that is they stay in the sky for like five hours. Yes. That's what puzzles me is that that takes industrial sized power generation. Yeah. Yeah. What are you using? Like, what is that thing using? Jamie, can you see the right cold fusion? Can you find the video of the disclosure today? It was. Yeah.
While he's talking about the disclosure, the one thing I do want to mention is when I talk to the AWACS group, I thought it was kind of interesting because I said, so how many know about this? And he goes, the whole squadron knows about it. And I was like, what? He says, yeah, but we just don't talk about it because people lose their jobs over this. And I was like,
I've heard that as well. And I was like, so this is an AWAC. And I said, am I to assume that if you're British AWACs, then American AWACs can see it, French AWACs can see it, NATO AWACs can see it. And he just kind of, yeah. And everybody does know what it is to no one's talking about it. And everybody just says, it's got to be American. Let's hear what this lady says.
And before I turn to questions, I do have news directly from the President of the United States that was just shared with me in the Oval Office, from President Trump directly, an update on the New Jersey drones. After research and study, the drones that were flying over New Jersey in large numbers were authorized to be flown by the FAA for research and various other reasons.
Many of these Jones were also hobbyists, recreational and private individuals that enjoy flying Jones. In the meantime, it got worse due to curiosity. This was not the enemy. A statement from the president of the United States to start this briefing with some news.
Part that gets me is the hobbyists being included in that. Well, they definitely were hobbyists, too, because there was hobbyists in Austin around that time. There was a ton of drones. And just people were like, whoa, it's a drone party. Everybody was like, everybody with drones is just flying around. OK, well, that kind of makes sense. Kind of makes sense, because there's so much drone activity talking. Here's the thing that I got to look at it from an analyst point of view. The first thing that came up, I was like, so they knew this the whole time.
Why couldn't they have said that from the very beginning? It's a different administration. Right. Right. And then two, why were they required to have a skiff briefing on drones?