#2250 - Raekwon

The Joe Rogan experience

That's it. The chef is in the building, ladies and gentlemen. What's up? What's up? Pleasure to meet you, man. You are a part of the most iconic band in all of hip hop. There is no question. There's one Wu Tang. There's only one Wu Tang. Nothing else is even close. You guys were so different than every other band that ever existed. It was a giant group of you. Yeah, man. And everybody was a killer. Fucking mob, man. It's a crazy band, man. No one is, if you think about it,

There's been a lot of hip-hop duos. There's been a lot of producers and MCs. There's been a lot of people that get together in like small groups. But there's only one Wu-Tang. There's only one group of nine assassins. I tell niggas that all the time. It's kind of crazy. You ain't gonna get another one of these. It's crazy that it worked. Yeah. Because it's so hard to keep all those alphas together. It really is crazy to make it work.

the most hellish shit, some shit that I never would have thought would ever exist. It was able to exist because we tried it, but it wasn't

It wasn't normal. It wasn't normal. You tried it, but it almost seems like it was just instinct. It's not a business strategy that anybody would ever come up with. Nine dudes and nine of the realest dudes, the rawest, realest dudes, and it worked.

And it worked? I tell people all the time, it was like when RZA, you know, he came with this whole philosophy of wanting to do it. It was like hitting a lotto for him. Like, he didn't know what to expect. It was more a reputation thing for us. It was like, you know, I want to do this. And, you know, he came to block and he took to some real dudes that was really had other shit planned than a life.

You know, but hip hop was always like that backpack that we wore every day, but everybody had different plans. So he really literally came in and started to pick motherfuckers that he felt had potential. So it's like the mob. It's like, you know, you know, lucky Luciano prime example.

You know, he knew that more fuckers had potential, right? He knew dudes had potential in any way. He's from a different party. He's from a different party. He's from a different part. But show what we could do right here is we could make money. So put your fucking feelings down or whatever the case may be.

And let's talk about some money. Yeah. And that right there, kind of like, yo, you start shaking hands across the table. I know you didn't really fuck with me like that, yo. I never had anything against you like that, though. But it just, it was just something that he felt like at the end of the day, let me try this shit.

Well, Riz is a genius, and it's amazing that he was able to coordinate that. Because that's often the case, right? With other killers, like when a dude's a bad motherfucker, they always assume that everybody else doesn't like them. Though he's assumed that everybody else is the enemy or competition.

So to have nine of you guys together like that as one group, you know, we always, I told you when I want to send you a message, I said that we play protect your neck. It's like whenever we have a police escort, that's what's the most hilarious thing. So we do a reading shows. We hire a police escort. So it's like fucking sirens and shit. Protect your neck. The whole time. It's like the perfect song to play when you when you're getting a police escort.

I know, I know, trust me. These young kids that I have at the club, like I was explaining Wu-Tang Clan to them the other night, I go, do you have to understand how wild this band was? I go when old Dirty Bastard was in Rikers, they went to Rikers and performed in Rikers. You remember that? Yes!

I told everybody I was like, you know how crazy that is? You're talking about like the biggest rap band in the fucking world and they're performing in a penitentiary to one of the members who's one of the biggest fucking hip hop stars in the world who's in jail and then you guys go into the crowd.

God bless his soul first and foremost. Oh, my God, old dirty bastard was a yo Joe is the funniest shit because when we came in and when we seen him, he was eating the cheeseburger laughing.

You know, he reminds you, he never was, you know, dirty. I don't even think, I've never seen him eat meat like that or whatever the case may be, but we came in, he was eating a cheeseburger and shit, laughing. So we was dying laughing and they kept, you know, the people up in there, they kept telling us like, yo, y'all can't, y'all can't go into the crowd with everybody, you know, we not gonna hold no responsibility or something happened. So you know, be like, all right now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now

Once we got on that stage, it was like, fuck the stage. We out there touching everybody. Wow. It was love, man. It was a lot of love. Man, it had to be what? I say what? 90, what? 90, 98, 97? Wow. 98. No internet. I'll be like, yeah, none of that shit. None of that. Was there even a recording that anywhere? No, I don't think so. I don't think so. You know, while that video would be,

I never knew that people seen that. I don't know how the fuck you knew that shit like. Oh, I heard about it. Yeah, I heard about it. I mean, it was in the news back then that you guys performed in Rikers. Yeah. Yeah. The 90s for hip hop. It was like people need you have to understand for young people. You grew up with hip hop. You're only 20 years old. I get it. But you have to understand from my perspective, in the 19 in 1980, there was no hip hop in 1992. That was all anybody gave a fuck about.

That is crazy. Yeah. For a new art form, it will be. So I'm murdered, right? Right. I mean, there was like Sugar Hill gang, there was some hip hop, but it wasn't the thing until the 90s and 90s hip hop. It got big. It got big. Yeah. It got so big. I remember, I remember it's so crazy. You said that because I tell people all the time like disco to me was hip hop before hip hop was, you know, disco, R&B,

Everything was a mixture it was a mixture so really when hip-hop came like you said it came like Maybe I'm gonna say 80s 85 it had to be 84 because I was in junior high school. Yeah. Yeah, we was young boys right so I would definitely say You heard something and it was like oh shit. Well fuck is this rhyming?

Wow, the shit sound cool though, you know what I mean? It sound cool. But really, it was a way to bring people together. You know that was going through different shit in their life, you know what I mean? Yeah, and you know what, it was earlier than that because in 84, I was in high school. So it had to be 80 because I was in high school. I was a freshman in high school in 81. So I heard Sugar Hill Gang when I lived in Jamaica Plain, which was in 1980. So that was the first time I'd ever heard any kind of hip hop.

Yeah. So like, yeah, like we said, you're 80. Yeah, I was 10 years old. So me probably really, really gravitating to what I probably was like 12, like you said.

What was the first hip hop that really grabbed you? Do you remember? Do you remember like what was the shit that you were first into when you were a kid? All right, folks, it's that time of year. Everyone is on a mission to improve their health and wellness habits and set the tone for 2025 by sticking to a routine. And while sticking to a healthy routine isn't always easy, it's so worth it.

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Um, the first shit that that grabbed me was, like how you said, sugar hill game, you know? Um, rap is delight. Yeah, rap is delight. That was the shit. Oh my God. Now look, I had cousins that had wild cousins and shit. They was, you know, they was wild. They was selling drugs. They was, you know, smoking weed and sniffing coke and, you know what I mean? Doing whatever they was doing.

And they used to live two floors above me. And I used to sneak up there and shit. And just being a business, being a world, and they would be playing music. They had the record player. You see Coke on its able and weed and everything. And my cousins, they was cool. They were like, come in, man. You don't give a fuck. Just don't tell your mother that you was around this shit. You know what I mean?

Nah, nah, nah, I ain't gonna say that, I ain't gonna say that. And I would just be watching and, you know, I would see weed on the album covers and, you know what I mean? Just more fuckers running back and forth in the room and, you know, they end the shit, but they always was playing music and a lot of the music was R&B, you know, disco. You know, when the next thing you know, I heard this fucking record on Sugar Hill gang and I'm like, the groove was dope. I'm like, holy shit.

This is what I want to be. You know what I mean? I'm looking at the whole vibe. I'm like, this is who I am, right? Yeah, you know, but it's so crazy how it emerged. I mean, it emerged. Yeah, nobody expected that, bro. Well, it was a totally new thing. Yeah. And there was a lot of resistance. I mean, for people that don't know those little warning labels on your, when you used to have CDs, that all came from Al Gore's wife.

Get the fuck out of there. Al Gore's wife, Tipper Gore, she was a Democrat. She wanted to censor rap music. Because this is the first time anybody heard like iced tea, you know, like that six in the morning, everybody's like, what the fuck is this? And that kind of explicit lyrics, they wanted to put a stop to it. And these dumbasses, they didn't even understand, it's so way more albums.

Because that's what kids were looking for. Where's the fucking, they don't even swear. Get this shit out of here. Once they got the label on it, it's like I want it. Exactly. Once the floodgates got open and kids got turned on to like real hardcore hip hop, you couldn't sell the regular shit. The regular shit would get out of here with that.

But that's what you guys got through with regular shit, but it just didn't last. Nah, it definitely didn't last. But like you said, though, everybody wanted the raw shit. And you got to remember at that time, it was a tough time, man. Too much shit was going on. I mean, it was to the point where it's like, yo, in our neighborhood, we had like crazy people. Like if they catch you at night, they'll kill you. Like they'd be dressed up like a fucking drag or whatever, all it's makeup on.

You know, I remember one time going to the incinerator room. My mom's made me go. She made me go to the, um, to the, um, take out the garbage and shit. I forgot to take it out. And she came home later that day and I was laying down and she fucking smacked me in the head with a broom. Like, yo, then I tell you to take out the fucking garbage. So now I'm going down to the incinerator room, you know, walking. It's on the same floor. And I remember when I cut the corner,

I seen a motherfucker sticking his head out and he had his hair all while his shit was like green and red and all this and he had lipstick on all crazy and His eyes is all fucking bugged out looking and he looked at me and when and I got the garbage pair with me and it's like girl once I seen him I just turn I just dropped the shit and ran mine

You know what I mean? You know what I mean? You know what I mean? You know what I mean? You know what I mean? You know what I mean? You know what I mean? You know what I mean? You know what I mean? You know what I mean? You know what I mean? You know what I mean? You know what I mean? You know what I mean? You know what I mean? You know what I mean? You know what I mean? You know what I mean? You know what I mean? You know what I mean? You know what I mean? You know what I mean?

You had that dope, that dope, that dope. So more focus is mixing dope and coke together and getting high and shooting it. Yeah, everything. You know what I mean? It was a serious time back then, man, but you know, that's how far to me.

Music went back, you know, listening to the ladies night, you know what I mean? I had people on my store that had a candy store right on the same floor, but it wasn't a candy store. They had a bunch of penny candy just to make kids feel cool, but really they were selling coconut back. Coconut dope though. So, you know, all this was going on in the community, man. It was a serious time. Scary times back then.

But if it's not for those scary times, you don't get the kind of band that Wu Tang was. That has to emerge from an authentic experience. Absolutely. It has to. And that's part of the appeal of it is that everybody kind of knew that.

You know, it was part of the appeal. There's never been like a genre of music like that that's so connected to like the grind and poverty and crime and ghettos. Like the whole genre of me to be authentic, you had to come from that. You couldn't experience that. Like some rich kid from the suburbs that was talking about some shit you never actually experienced. Nobody wants to hear it, which is kind of crazy. Right, that's true. I mean, you know, back then,

You know, hip hop was really an expression for the ghetto. You know, the way that out, you know, being that we was living in fucked up situations and nobody had shit. Nobody had no fucking jobs like that. It was like, yo, we needed something to keep us cool, keep us in the vibe mode. You know, back then, gangs was still relevant. You know, we never looked at ourselves as a gang. We might have looked at ourselves as a tribe.

That yo when you from a neighborhood and you stick to your neighborhood, you know what I mean? And that's why even back then it was like a lot of times You know, you would beef with people that wasn't from your neighborhood just because you wasn't from here It's like yeah, what the fuck you doing over here? You know, then it creates this animosity thing and I remember for us, you know being a

being in an area where it was like, you go up the block, up the block, stayed up the block, down the block, stayed down the block. So for me, I was in the middle. So, you know, I lean more towards up the block, you know, but then we would go down the block just to start trouble and, you know, then they would come up the block and they would start trouble. And next thing you know before, you know, we all fucking with each other, you know what I mean? So that was our way of getting to know each other is the

test each other's heart, and whatever may happen was happening back then. But the music, believe it or not, the music was keeping a piece. Now, the music was keeping a piece because they would do block parties, right?

They would do block parties and everybody knew all these different DJs was coming from different places and going to play some music and shit. So we knew every time they did that, we knew something was going to happen at the end of the night. It was just mandatory. It was just because people from all over, different neighborhoods would come out.

And everything would be nice. And next thing you know, you see them all fucking riding down the street all crazy, you know, you know, trying to hit motherfuckers and swinging the golf club out the window and shit. And, you know, somebody, mother might have got knocked out, you know what I mean? You know, but the music is still playing.

You know, so yeah, that's the type of shit that to me that made it fun, but made it spooky. But it still was fun because it was something I remember. It was like, well, it's fun because you survived. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, you know, but we were young. So we didn't we didn't care about we didn't care about.

whether we live or die at that time. We didn't give a fuck. It was like, whatever's gonna happen is gonna happen. That's wild. But the music, the music is what kept things in order for us, you know, because we always felt like that was a vessel to being calm. You know, when you come from somewhere, that's fucked up, Joe.

And it's nothing there. You can't get a job because of your community. Your zip code don't allow you to be like, yo, he's hired. No, it's just too infested over there. So you kind of become relaxed with that mentality of saying, well, fuck it.

I'ma live off the land, I'ma sell weed, I'ma do whatever I think that is gonna make me survive. So everything is just survival. When music always kept us calm and you always wanna listen to what's the next being played. I grew up on R&B music like disco and all that fun shit, roller skating.

You know, no more focus in the neighborhood that was roller skating. You know, we would get off of Staten Island sometimes and go to these different parks and jams in the city. That was fun, too. That was fun times for us. So was it RZA that there was initially all nine guys? Like, how did it get formed?

Well, number one, it was RZA, his cousin JZA, and his other cousin, old dirty bastard, that they were super close. Now, old dirty bastard and JZA, they were from Brooklyn.

RZA from Staten Island. We all Brooklyn babies too, majority of us in the clan. We all resided in Staten Island, but majority of us grew up in Brooklyn. But anyway, it was those three that were closest shit. So RZA,

Back then, Riza, he acknowledged herself, which was, you know, being involved with the nation of Islam, and also Jiza in old dirty. They were a part of the nation at that time. So they would go to a lot of rallies.

This is a place where everybody go when they build. They talking about mathematics and all of this, but it was just an old dirty who instilled the hip hop into RZA. So RZA was a DJ back then, but he knew how to rhyme too. And he knew how to rhyme because of his cousins. So they kind of had this gang called, not a gang, but they had this thing called the all and together now group.

which was them three, and they would run around and they would battle, you know, different gods from different cities and move around. So, you know, some was kind of new what they were about. You know, a lot of us, you know, found out later who they were, but when Jason O'Dirty came to Staten Island, they came and they hang out with their cousin.

So, you know, we started to see them a little bit more and know that, you know, or heard about your rhymes and, you know, and dirty. He was just a crazy, more fuckable than he was crazy. But, yeah, they had their own little thing going on.

And then, you know, next thing you know, Jiza caught a record deal. He caught a record deal, which was rare back then. Like, if you had to, if you fucking caught a record deal, that mean that you had to have relationships, you had to know where to go. You had to have some cut, some type of connects. So that's what gravitated RZA into wanting to do it because he's seen at his cousin.

had was able to, you know, crack the code on making a record. So when that happened, it was almost like it magnetized RZA to be like, yo, I gotta make a record now. So, you know, and the next thing you know, they had, they movement going on. So us from the outside looking, it was like, oh shit, yo, we know them, we know they super passionate about, you know, being in a game and doing whatever they gonna do, but

We wasn't thinking that far. We just loved the music in general. Wow. And then so RZA is essentially the mastermind to put all the pieces together and to bring all you killers into one, under one roof. Absolutely. Absolutely. Amazing how we saw that. Because again, that's not something that existed.

Yeah. It's like Eric being rock him. You know, there was, you know, there was a few EPMD. There's a few people. You know your shit. Yeah. You know your shit. Gangstar. There was a few people that were together, but it wasn't like you guys. Nah, nah, because it was kind of scary. It was like, God damn, when you guys had a show, I mean, I heard stores that it was just like you guys would show up like 300 people.

Yeah, that was, you know, that was some neighborhood shit. But, um, yeah, like you said, that was so rare to see a group that come out like that. And it was really a mistake. It wasn't really designed to be that way, but when RZA had a record situation and they tried to make him be something that he wasn't, and then, you know... Always the case. You know what I mean? He was like, yo, fuck that. I don't even care about this shit at this level no more. I want to create this now.

and I'm bringing in all my guys and, you know, he just put that number together. So, believe it or not, I was one of the guys that he called first because we used to hang out. Like, I tell people all the time, like, yo, I might have been Riz's first, you know, big fan. So I kind of seen something, and then I'm already I seen something. I'm like, yo, this guy really, you know, him and his cousins and I'm like, yo, these more fuckers really got talent.

You know, not only the ability to rhyme, but they was clever. Like, took my clever rhymes. Right, right, right. You know, and he was mixing it with the knowledge and, you know, smart rhymes. Not these fucking regular Humpty Dumpty lines. Like, I'm talking about serious rhymes. I'm like, damn, you know what I mean? Like, yo. So, you know...

This is something that I felt like I would want to go chill with them just to be in the mix and be a fly on the wall. Wasn't even thinking about being no fucking rapper. I didn't give a fuck. I just love the music, but I'm watching these more fuckers. I'm like, something about these motherfuckers that I love. You know, when next thing you know, when RZA, you know, RZA,

went out there and he came back to the community. He was like, yo, I quote a record deal. So, you know, I was there. I'm like, we see this shit looking at the shit. She was the fucking, oh, yeah, I'm looking down here. Like you said, the, the what's the name? The fine print. Yeah, the fine print is shit. I got this motherfucking man, the record. Holy shit, yo. Bow, Staten Island, that's what's up. We up, you know, but his situation ain't work out the way he wanted it to. And that's when he came back and he started to be like, yo, chef,

This is what I'm trying to do. Well, the dangerous thing for young artists in every industry is when you have potential and you're young, you sign a fucking contract and you don't know what's going on. And then you get locked into these people. And then a lot of times you're getting fucked. And you don't even know. Because the mandatory mandatory mandatory.

You're getting fucked, which is how they make their money. They make money by fucking young artists who don't know any better. And by the time someone gets to like a prince's level, he's like, oh, you owe me? I'm a fucking squeaky line. Suck my dick. And he performs as a symbol. I mean, that's why he performed as a symbol because they owned him. It's crazy. You take like the most talented people in the world and they get owned by people who provide no value, especially today. Today it's even crazier, right? Because there is no record sales anymore.

It's all gone. It's all gone. So for a young artist, it's so important that they stay independent as long as they can. Just like you're hanging off a bridge. Hang on. Hang on and keep grinding. Don't sell it. Don't sign. If you sign, you're going to be fighting that shit 10 years from now. You're going to be in court 10 years from now. You're right.

that somebody's gonna be getting, not just 50%, but like some fucking, like Bill Burr was explaining this about his first comedy CD, and he got a 60-40 deal. He's like, oh great, 60-40, but it's not really 60-40, because he has to pay for all the distribution, all the printing of the CDs, everything came out of his money. Well, I actually had a question.

Put yourself in an audit situation, right? You have talent, right? You have talent. Here it is. I got everything you want. Yeah. You gonna have to make some sacrifices. For sure. Because you know that, yeah, you may feel like y'all got talent, but I don't have the resources. Right. So those resources come and tell you, yo, look, I'll give you a shot. I'm gonna give you a shot, but either you take this shot,

or you stay in the hood. What are you gonna do? You're gonna take the shot. You're gonna take the shot. And I agree with everybody who takes that shot. I'm just letting them know. I'm just letting them know. You're getting fucked. You're getting fucked. But see, it's the sacrifice that I'm trying to explain to you that every artist takes that sacrifice because at the end of the day, you have to start from somewhere. So even when labels are being them,

In my mind, I'm saying, yo, I get a chance to have a job, Joe. Niggas ain't never had no fucking job in their life. And now we get a chance to do something that you could maybe think that you could change the world with and love. It's like you're going to go for it. So for us back then, being kids, we didn't give a fuck. We didn't care about signing. Yo, I signed because

What the fuck I gotta lose? I don't been through everything. I didn't been over here. I didn't been kicked out of everywhere. Fuck it. I just want to be heard. So a lot of time, that be the protocol is just to be heard. To be heard, to be able to say, yo, something happened. I don't give a fuck.

A lot of artists got robbed. A lot. A lot of artists, and especially our OG's that did it before us. Like, you know what I mean? Sugar, hell gangs, all these different guys. They all have been manipulated to do what they had to do, but it almost gave them power, too, because they became famous. They became big. They became less. There's an argument for that, but I think it should be more fair.

Oh, listen. That's all it is. Of course you are. On which you are. But we just talking about the sacrifice. You have to do it. You have to do it. Sacrifice is everything. If you're a young kid and that's step one and now you're on the runway, OK, you got to take it. You got to take it. But it just should be more fair.

Oh, and it shouldn't be. It shouldn't lock. And I'm sure later on, things worked out. And, you know, now that you've proved yourself, once they become undeniable, it's like I tell them all fuck it is. I'm like, you'll imagine you were a hustler, right? And you run into the connect and the connect say, yo, you talking like you know how to move shit.

I'ma give you 50 pounds of marijuana back then, you know what I mean? Now, you may feel like at the end of the day, you can handle it, but I'm gonna fucking tell you, Joe, I'm giving you these fucking 50 pounds. But I need my money back today at this time.

You could either take the 50 because you so fucking confident or take one and say y'all I'd rather take my time You know what I mean? I don't want to be in debt with you. What are you gonna do? You gotta take the 50 you go. Oh, yeah He's gonna take he he wants the fucking get his head fucking chop though. You gotta take the 50 You gotta know people. Yeah, you gotta bring everybody in and you gotta share the money. You gotta know people

You gotta know people that you ain't confident in knowing what the fuck you need to know I advise you don't take you shouldn't be having that conversation if you don't know anybody but if you know some people and you're generous oh that's the thing you got to make it worth these people's while you gotta bring you gotta say listen we're all gonna get something out of this

And see, now, look, that philosophy that you said is what we took on. We took that on. We said, you know what? At the end of the day, we'll take this little bit of money, but we're going to go. We're going to be willing to sell ourselves to get to this level because we know what we believe in. See, it all starts from what you believe. Yes. If you don't have the belief in yourself, then make it happen.

You fucked. It's a rising tides, lifts all boats thing too. And with Wu-Tang Clan, that was for sure a big thing because anybody that was associated with Wu-Tang Clan was automatically respected. Automatically people wanted to listen. Automatically. Automatically.

So that just lifts everybody. But it's hard for people to see that. Everybody thinks about themselves, especially when you're struggling. When you're struggling, then you're scared. And scared money doesn't make money. That's what it is. Everybody gets paranoid. And they think, no, that's when you got to bond together. That's when you have to find real people and stick together. You said the key word. You got to sell that 50. You got to sell that 50. Talk to Carlos.

Go down the book take it. Let's make a deal man. We gotta make some deals. I guess that's what it is that he danced with the devil for the right reason and you know we took we took some scars we got hit. It was a different world back then to it in terms of the industry because today all you need is a social media account spotify sound cloud you can blow up.

Yeah, you can blow up today. Yeah, back then you needed the radio. Yeah, you needed, you know, you could sell mixed tapes, but it's hard or you had to be some undeniable talent. Yeah, you know, like I we always play the video of Biggie when he was 17 on the street.

Remember that video? That's undeniable talent. If he stays alive, you can't stop that train. That train's running everything over. There was guys like that back then, but man, to get out there and get your name out there, you had to dance with that devil.

And that business was so dirty back then. It still is, but real dirty back then in the record selling days. Yeah, of course, of course. I mean, but that's what made us learn is that we had to go through those growing pains. We had to get jerk to learn how to say, yo, that was a lesson. So everything is a lesson at the end of the day. It's like if you willing to sacrifice yourself in your time to learn something,

I would always say, go for it. Yes. Go for it. Definitely. Go for it. It's so much better than not going for it. Yeah, because then you're going to be sitting in the same situation, and you're going to realize at the end of the day, damn, I should have took that opportunity. Some people are scared of opportunities when they come. And it's like, if a person over your opportunity, nine times out of 10, it may not work for you the way you want it to work, but it may be an opportunity to help you.

You know, it's all about you trying to help yourself and get out there. It's like, watch your scarface and the niggas told him. He said, yo, give you five grand. And if you fuck this up, Chico. Scarface looked at him and said, man, the fuck is you talking about? We built for this shit, man. You know when he lost, he lost his man in the mix, but

He was able to prove to himself that I could do it. Yeah. That's how I look at rappers like, yo, I don't give a fuck. Yeah, we'll take this. We'll take this little bit of money, but we're going to prove to y'all later on that we know what the fuck we doing.

And for young people listening to this, every chance you take where you fail, that's a lesson to learn. And you just keep taking chances. Keep going. Pick yourself back up. Figure out where you fucked up and learn from that. Now you're better. Now you have more experience coming into this next thing.

Just keep going. Just keep going. Just keep going, especially as artists. It's just like so many artists, they don't hit until they do. And then when they do, it's like, oh, and then people want to go back in their past stuff. Like, oh, this guy had fucking three albums before this. Think about it. Think about all our favorite artists out there. You know, um, Eminem, you know, Eminem been trying to fucking get on, you know? Um, you know, um,

Rock him slick reg all these so they they went through they went through a lot to get on you know I mean biz Markey, you know nobody wanted to fuck with biz at first, but You know he finally figured the cold out and was like yo This is what I'm gonna do, you know, he started rocking shows and different communities and next thing you know people start hearing about them and

It's like, oh shit, yo. The sky is dope. But it's that sacrifice, man. Let's tell people all the time. It's time put in, time put in energy, effort, determination. You got to have some talent. It's just God just gives us something or doesn't.

You know, some people just got it, you know. Some people it's also like artistic families like Nas, you know. He grew up in this like intellectual artistic family and that's why his rhymes are so good. His pops, man. His pops is a musician. Yeah. Like rewind. Yeah. That's like one of the greatest songs of any genre anybody's ever written. It's a genius song. So crazy. I was listening to that shit yesterday. Genius songs back in the gun.

Yeah. Genius song. The whole song backwards. And it's a make-all. I love Nas, especially for lyrics. His lyrics are incredible. They were so good. They were so good. And unusual, like that. Just deciding, only the first guy to make a rap backwards. And make it work perfectly.

I mean, it's just, hey, did you ever listen to any of the shit where the brand new heavies got together with a bunch of rappers? The brand new heavies, I know the name. The brand new heavies are like a jazz band. They did a collaboration with Gangstar Cool G rep, a bunch of guys back there. Some of my favorite shit of all time. Yeah, they was more musical though, like, you said it was more musical, yeah. Have you ever heard Cool G rep's death threat?

My god Jamie play that play that find that we gotta put on the headphones for this. This is in my Long with a bunch of Wu tank. This is in my spotify playlist. This is cool G-Rabbin like I want to say 92. Yeah, 92 listen this I

I've never heard this shit before. How good is this? One of my favorites right there. Turn this chick with small dicks.

Nice. So good. Nice. So good. So this was on a brand new heavy zone. Yes. The brand new heavys did one with Gangstar. They did a bunch of different artists. Nice. And it's 92. Yeah. See, it's the beginning. Yeah. Yeah. I was on a road trip. I was doing a gig in Connecticut with a buddy of mine. It was a comedian. Right. And he turned me on this. Like, you got to listen to this shit. I was like, Oh my God. And then I had a CD and I lost it.

I couldn't find it forever. And then someone brought it up like a few years back, like six or seven years back. And I was like, it's got it. You got to be able to find it. And that's the beautiful thing about today with like YouTube and, you know, some of these platforms, people upload shit that you totally forgot about like Tim Dog.

People forgot about like fuck Compton remember that yeah, he was a wild cat, but he was good though. He was good. Yeah He was well and back then great shit. Yeah, he was well and back then but kooji wrapped that to me was like that defined like road gigs for me in the 1990s when we were drive Mm-hmm. That was when cock blocking came out

Man damn, so you really you really pay attention Yeah hip-hop was a big part of my my childhood or my my young adulthood You know when I was driving around a lot doing comedy gigs like a lot of ghetto boys. Oh, yeah, me too

You know, I was playing the other day in the green room. I was playing fuck a war for these young kids I was like listen this is a song from the 1980s about the Iraq war. This is about George Bush in like the 19 late 1980s

And it applies today. You remember fucking war? Nah, you come up. headphones are coming back, right? Let's go. It's school with me on shit. Like, what the fuck? I talked to Willie D. Willie D told me wrote this song in 40 minutes. Wow. Yeah, it was just angry, wrote this song in 40 minutes. And this is ghetto boys in their prime. Hmm. Hello, can I speak with Bushwick? Bushwick Bill. That was my guy right then, man. This is Bushwick. Motherfucking Bill. That you've been drafted into the United States military.

91. 91. Look at that big phone he's got. Yeah. Yeah. I have one of those before too. Yeah. I don't give a fuck about you. You know that bullshit. You stress it. Fuck a war. Fuck a war.

It's okay crazy Oh shit, yeah

Yeah. He was in the NWA chamber. He was in the NWA chamber. Dude, that shit was good. And that applies today. And that applies today. Not applies today. We were all talking about what's going on right now with Gaza and Palestine and Iran. Listen to this. And see, this is why we love hip-hop so much is because it was educational tools. It was giving us jewels. It was talking about things that

we're going on in the world and that became the television for us, the music, the music, the news too. Like you need to know what was actually going on. Like fuck a war tells you what's really going on. So when I think about those Compton Boys, those NWA cats and all of that that was expressing themselves, it was like that's what we all were

facing and living amongst and you know like I said I never heard that song before so I could tell that was made around the time when NWA was doing anything and you know you hearing about all these riots and shit going on and things happening you know us living all the way on the other side of the world it's like yo we not yeah what the fuck was that right

You know, but you heard it in the song and you knew it was real. You respected it. And to me, those perspectives and music were important for us because we were learning as we were getting older about society. You don't think about society when you pour

and living in fucked up positions. You just think about survival. You see what I'm saying? Survival is the only thing on your mind. And you're dealing with things that's in front of you that at the end of the day, you're like, damn, the fuck was that that just happened? What was this shit? But then when you heard it and rapping and motherfuckers like these was talking about it and all that, it's like now you was like, oh!

Okay, I see what the fuck is going on. Yeah, it's not just here It's all over it's and every everywhere every ghetto or whatever the case may be that's what was happening Yes, so I never heard that before though. You just you just put me on some hell shit Oh, and that's one of my favorite groups right there. I love the ghetto boys ghetto boys of real shit right there

the 1990s ghetto boy era and that like I remember the day I found out about NWA I was teaching Taekwondo in Revere, Massachusetts and I was at the gym riding on a stair climber and I just picked up this cassette and I was like NWA I keep hearing about this

And I fucked the police was the first song I listened to. And I remember I was on the stair climb going, this is wild. You see what I'm saying? You see what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. You're you're hearing people talk about the police, like they're getting harassed by the police in a way you never heard them say it. Yeah. Exactly. The police come in straight from the underground. It was like, I was like, wow. Straight from the. It was a totally different kind of music. It was.

It was like they were rapping and no one was listening. It was like they were rapping for themselves, right? Yeah. Like they didn't get a fuck who was listening. They were rapping, like they were doing it for their friends, but they were doing it to the whole world and the whole world was like, whoa. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 100 miles and running, the whole world was like, whoa. Yeah. This is crazy. So look, you had them, you had public enemy. Oh, yeah. All of them type of guys were giving us information that

was relatable in our community that they be... KRS1? KRS1, the teacher, you know. That's the sound of the police. All that shit right there to me was knowledgeable rap hip-hop. I ain't gonna call it fucking rap hip-hop.

Information information right there like especially KRS one and public enemy. Yeah, they were they were saying something it was like very but it wasn't contrived Right exactly wasn't like, you know, you see people say shit today like ah You just do an effort collapse like they were saying shit to let people know about some information That you're not aware of and this is why you're getting fucked

This is why we're all getting fucked. Absolutely. Come on. Come on. Even when fucking Spike Lee made dude do the right thing. Yes. One of my favorite movies I did. That's a classic right there. Classic. Classic. Classic. Classic. Well, like you said, we was getting information and, you know, you got to remember, you know, at the end of the day,

You know a lot of people that coming out of the you know the hood and just being like I know you you come from the hood You know while I was born in Newark. Yeah, he's born. Yeah, shout out to know so you you seen it I would exactly say I come from the hood because I went to high school in the suburbs. Yeah

I lived in Newark when I was 23 for about six or seven months. And I told you my next door neighbor. He was selling dope and the police raided his house while I was there. They battering, rammed his door and everything. He had a nice Audi. I looked at him like, how does this do has a nice car? Selling dope. He was selling dope. And they got him. But you was around it though. So he would, you know,

Well, that was also the time I was the most into hip-hop too. I mean, that was 1991, I guess, 1991. That was Wild Era, because that's when hip-hop was just exploding. Yeah, yeah. Exploding. Yeah, I would say definitely 91. You had Naughty by Nature. Oh, yeah. They had it merged on the scene. Like you said, rock him in big daddy canes. Oh, yeah. Easy ease and ice cubes. To this day, I go to work because it's one of my favorite workout songs.

Big Daddy King, I'll go to work. Oh my God, I got to work. Oh, he was so smooth and so fast too. You know, Big Daddy Kane had like a very particular style. It was energetic. You know, you heard his style. Like, God, your blood started pumping. You know, you started getting moving.

and see those are the type of guys that paid the way for us to be. So, you know, outspoken on the mic, you know, when I, when I sit here and I think about the Klan, you know, the woo on how we, you know, formed, we formed Voltron. Each one of us had a superpower that related back to those guys, you know, all these guys that we talking about today, um, they was the, they was the light bulb.

Right in the house. You screw that shit on. This is what I see right now. I see slick wreck. I see rock camera, see cube. I see fucking, you know, all these guys that paid the way for it. So the Klan at that time, we were so, you know, inclined on knowing about all these guys.

knowing majority of them, we kept a piece of them in us. That helped us become who we are. Like, I tell them more fuckers all the time. I say, yo, let me tell you something. When we came out,

Naughty by Nature was the shit they was they was fucking shit up on the East Coast side of things, you know And at that time you had them you had EP and D you had Queen Latifah Roxanne Chantay all these you know artists back then were blowing up LL campfront on LL. Oh, yeah

Ella was huge coogee rap one of my favorites. I know that's one of your favorites You know the fat boys all these guys were just right fat boys You know these guys was giving us so much food for thought that We knew that if we didn't come on that level. Mm-hmm. We wasn't built to be in a game at that time

Well, there was so much high quality. The high quality, that's the word. The level was very high. The lyrics were so good. Like you would hear lyrics and just go, oh shit. Yeah. That was the thing. That was the thing about hip hop. Listen to the lyrics, I love it. I love lyrics. That's right. That's right. That was what I wanted. That was the style back then. It was like the most clever guy, the most clever lyrics. It was so important.

You know, there's so many guys that just had, everybody was battling for, so it was like more and more cleverness and more and more intricacies and more and more twists with what they were saying. And it was just a vibrant art form, man. Like how many people cheated on their significant other because of OPP?

How many? It was like a license to fuck. People were cheering. I mean it had the hip hop had so much influence on the culture and it emerged out of nowhere.

That's what's so crazy like 10 years ago doesn't exist boom. I mean even rock and roll I mean rock and roll you had the 50s it starts to emerge then the 60s really takes off and you know it'd been around for a while. Like hip hop just explode and make a lot of other things look lame.

You know, especially for young kids, because when you hear guys like you and, you know, Ghostface and, you know, Method Man and like, you're dealing with real dudes who are talking about real shit and everybody else just look kinda lame.

It was like, they didn't even swear. You guys were wild. It was fun and it was clever. And I think RZA did a genius thing by naming it Wu-Tang Clan. Because it connected it to this Kung Fu mindset.

And I know that she's big on. I know you're big on Kung Fu shit, because I'm coming through your shrine and shit. He got all kind of fucking Shogun Warriors. Oh, I have real Sam right. I'll put it out there. Yeah. But nah, but you know what's so crazy? I tell people it's like, when Wizard, when they was on a Wu Tang shit, we wasn't on that.

I grew up watching

We were living around a lot of hustlers. A lot of drugs was being sold in my community at that time, right? So when Reza had came with the whole Wu-Tang philosophy, it was almost like, yeah, we love karate flicks. We were watching, you know about the karate flicks three o'clock, three o'clock. When we come over and schooled him, shit's his own, channel five, all of that shit. But if you notice and you look at those karate movies, it was about a place that

you know, was filled with a lot of crime and aggressive people that were doing things that bothered other people and you either had to protect your people

or you had to make a name for yourself. Now, when you think about Wu Tang, I'm gonna just give you a quick lesson on what Wu Tang was. Wu Tang was a school that was in Shaolin. This particular school, these niggas was crazy. They was fucked up. They got kicked the fuck out of Shaolin. Really? They got kicked out. Yo, y'all bugged out, y'all wiling, y'all.

But these guys were very good, but they just couldn't sit in Shaolin because they had a different way of looking at shit and doing shit. So when Rizzo came with the whole philosophy of it, it's this movie that's called Shaolin vs Wu Tang, right? Check it out whenever you get a chance. So whatever was going on in that movie, he made a reality of it because really at the end of the day, that's how we were living.

back in Staten Island, you know, so we wound up changing the name and calling it Shaolin because we were the forgotten Barrow. You know, when you think about Brooklyn Bronx, Queens Manhattan, why don't we talk too much about fucking Staten Island? That bothered us. So we didn't, we felt rebellious like, yo, you come out here, you ain't from here? You better know somebody.

you're not fucking coming into projects thinking you're gonna fucking act like you're going over to your friends. I remember we used to see UFOs come through, we call them UFOs, unidentified flying objects. What the fuck are you doing there? Yo, follow him. Yo, we came to see. You know what I mean? Because we had so much to prove, but it was the same thing that was going on in the karate flicks like, yo, you go to a new neighbor. Who is this guy? He's coming to play you? He's coming to play you?

Or are you going to play him? This is all the shit that's going on in the karate movies. You know the brotherhood. Yo, oh shit, my brother got hurt. What happened? Oh, hold up. Let's go. We got to go get back to that. We got to go figure that out. All this shit that RZA was thinking about at that time was a reality check for us at Staten Island. So even when he came with the name, it was almost like, yo, wow, that shit is interesting. You know, Wu-Tang Clan, yo.

You know, and back then he was hanging in ghosts his community, which was Stapleton. So Stapleton was a place that was maybe like 10, 15 miles away from Park Hill where I'm from. I'm from the hill. I'm from up there. They were selling drugs and getting crazy with it and Jamaicans and West Indians and 90s and

You know, it was a mountain pot. You know, it was a mountain pot of different nationalities and motherfuckers. You had the Spanish motherfuckers over here selling dope. You know what I mean? You had the white boys over here fucking doing what they doing. You know, all these things was going on, but in Stapleton, it was nothing but criminals and motherfuckers that want to fight and rob and steal. And, you know, when, um,

Reza was hanging out there a lot. So they came up with this whole Wu-Tang mentality thing that they bought up the block to us. So when Reza came with it, it was like, oh shit, we like that. That's kind of dope. But we see the vision of that.

But it was never for us to look at it at any given time like you're trying to portray us as some fucking ninjas or some shit. You know, a lot of times people thought, yo, your niggas don't karate. You don't know fucking karate motherfucker. We don't do that. But we grew up our older cat. Our older brothers and sisters, they grew up on that. That was some early 70s shit right there.

Yeah, so you know back then you might add a cousin that was a martial art He knew the arts and shit, you know, you looked up to him like y'all the small fuckers L right here You know he know the arts and shit. He know how to fight You know your motherfucker were being back at a building with two double men pinches and shit You know what I mean beating them with fucking laundry Matt hoses and shit and you know grabbing them and hanging them on shit and

You know, back then, that was, you know, that was dope to see your cousins and all of them do it. But reason when he came with this philosophy, it kind of like fucked the soul up in it. But we agreed with it right away. Because Wu Tang was, to them, was always something like an expression. So if you're drinking, this is Wu Tang. You're drinking, yo. You over here, yo, this is some Wu Tang shit or whatever, because he was trying to say that we were just like them in the flicks.

It's crazy. Wanna hear something crazy? Whenever I kill an elk, you know, I go bow hunting every year. Whenever I kill elk, when I text my friend Cam, I text Wu Kang. Like whenever I kill something, I'll show you. I'll show you that that's true. I've seen some of the pictures they did. I know, but I want to show you that that's true. I'm not making this up. It goes back years. It goes back years. This is like our tradition.

Whenever I kill elk, well, I'm gonna find this. I'm gonna find one of the last time I said Wu Tang. I text him every day, so it's gonna take a second to get back into some pictures. But whatever I get one, I say Wu Tang, and then I send him a picture. Oh shit. Crazy.

is gonna take a while because I do scroll, but this is important to show you, this is real. Come on motherfucker. Go back and search Wu Tang and it will show you. Oh, will it show you? Yeah. Oh, okay. Oh, look at Jamie. Under Cam Hans or just Wu Tang. Then when you find Cam Hans, it'll show you. Oh, look at Jamie, tell me how to do it. Sorry. Here we go. See, oh, here it is. Right there. Wu Tang. Holy shit. Holy shit. And then the elders down.

That was from October, but I got I go back like five years of doing that like every time I shoot a hell guy text Wu tag No, I started hunting in 2012 I shot that deer the deer that head that's right there. That's the first Wow Animal I hunted and then I was like, okay, that's what I'm doing. Wow

I was, it was either for me, it was that or become a vegetarian. I watched too many of those PETA films, you know, with those animal factory farming films and torture films. I was like, fuck this, like either I'm going to be a vegan or I'm going to learn how to hunt. And my friend Steve Renella took me hunting. I shot that deer. I'm like, all right, that's what I do now. I've been doing it ever since. I've been hunting for 12 years. 12 years. Yeah. So you can sit here yourself a marksman then?

Well, it's like I'm not really good like compared to real marksman. You know, it's like saying you're a black belt when you're not really a black belt, you know, like I go to the courses. Yeah, like how good are you? I mean, I'm good for regular people. Yeah, you think I'm really good. Yeah, but like for people that are really good.

I'm not nearly at their level. But you know, there's like professional archers that are like super accurate out to a hundred yards. They can shoot like a softball sized group at a hundred yards consistently. I got a couple of homeboys who can shoot like that though. It's a lot of discipline. A lot of discipline. Yeah, but they come from, they live on this side of town too. Yeah, well, there's a lot of bow hunting in Texas. A lot of bow hunting in Texas. Yeah, it's fun. Yeah. I like it.

I got to get out there one day, man. I got to use it. I told you, like, we were talking before the show, like, you want to learn. I could put you on some people, a little 100% teach how to do it. And because you're, you're fairly close. Like, that's a easy thing to do. We're going to look it up. Definitely. You would enjoy it. It's a, it's also, it's a nice discipline to clear your mind. Yeah. You set a target up in the backyard and just shoot the target. It just clears your mind because you have to really concentrate on it. And why don't you do it? You don't think about nothing else.

For a guy like you, busy, so much shit going on. It's good to have a thing like that. It's like a sport to me. It's like something to learn and kind of master that's important. But it's one of those things like shooting a free throw. At that moment, you can't think of anything else other than what you're doing. If other shit gets in your head, you don't have any room for it. You gotta push it all out. And that kind of stuff cleans your mind. It flushes your mind out.

That's what it's all about at the end of the day, man. It's just kind of like, get a piece of mine and bop, bop to something different, though. Yeah. I always say that for artists too, you should find some other thing you like to do, just to give you a little break mentally from whatever you're trying to do. Exactly. You could get too close to something and lose sight of the big picture if you're all wrapped up in it. Sometimes you see something else that you also enjoy outside of it and then you can look at what you're doing. Okay, what am I doing different?

Exactly. Maybe I should put a new wrinkle in this. Maybe I should take a new turn, you know? That's important, man. That's important, man. Yeah. You know what's another cool thing about today is that it used to be thought at one point in time. I think it was like the early 2000s that rap had

that hip hop had a shelf life and that there wouldn't be classics. You know what I mean? Like the Rolling Stones are still touring. You know, they were 58 years old back down like this is crazy. The Rolling Stones are back on the road. But that was like a new thing. It was like old rock and roll guys out torn was a new thing. But with hip hop artists, like if you weren't in now, if you weren't new now, it kind of people weren't in to go and to see you.

Right. Yeah. Well, when I see guys like L.L. and Kane and then perform and slick Rick and Ice Cube, it kind of, it gives me more leverage and more strength to want to do it because I see some of my legends still doing it today. But yeah, man, like you said, just a.

See a lot of guys like the Rolling Stones and Mick Jagger and I'm still performing. It's like, why not? Why not? Yeah. I give up on it, you know. But with hip hop, it wasn't really a thing for a long time. Like older hip hop, right? You didn't think that it would last. Right. You know what I mean? So you felt like

you would get a five year run. They say any artist that was coming out back in the 90s, they was already putting a cap on how long or how far they felt she was going to go. So even for us, we was like, yo, hey, we do this shit for like three or four years. We good. Yo, we'll be cool with that. So they always put us in a, what's the word I want to say?

Was that was a box put us in a box. Yeah to make us feel like at the end of the day Yo, this shit is going to be here for a minute Then it's over. You know, but seeing guys still doing it You know, I don't give a fuck like I listen to Billy Joel Billy Joe, man. I'm a fucking guy right there. That's hilarious People I know people will be like it the fuck

That's hilarious. I love his old shit until he until he had that supermodel wife. Oh, then everything got real soft Too much good pussy. He got supermodel pussy and it's like a town girl She's been living in her uptown world before that you go back to his other shit, you know only the good diet

He's got some great stuff, man. Scenes from an Italian restaurant? That's a great song, man. Captain Jack. Ooh, Captain Jack's a great song. Billy Joel, man. But when he got older, it just became, you know, he was changing as a human. You're in New York at two, right? Yeah. You don't get to the heart right there, right? I sold out Master Square Garden like 300 times.

Kind of crazy. Still going. Yeah, still going. So those are heroes. Those are guys that we we look up to that. You know, they still doing anything. Yeah, it's just beautiful that hip hop is like that now because I feel like in the 2000s, only it was more overseas was showing you guys love.

Yeah. Like a lot of Europe, like a lot of my friends that were like maybe bigger in the 90s, they had to go over to Europe. To come check out hip hop. Yeah. And I tell people all the time, like being from the States, being where we from,

I think they appreciated more because they never really got a chance to grasp it as much as we did. Right. So they come out more. Right. Right. Right. Right now today. The more enthusiastic. They more, they love it more. You know, so... They can't believe it there. Yeah, they can't believe it. Yeah. But for me...

I think I love performing a lot more when I go out there because they come out and they never ever make you feel like they don't appreciate you. You know what I mean? And even to this day, it's like the client still goes out there and makes a ton of cash. We see a lot of people and we see young generations of kids now too. It's like, yo, you look in the crowd.

How old is that fucking kid? We just put him on stage and he knew the fucking words. He might have been like 17, 16 years old. He wasn't even fucking born. Well, there's classic hip hop now. You know what I'm saying? When I was a kid, there was classic rock. You listen to Led Zeppelin. It was classic rock. Now there's classic hip hop.

which is amazing. Well, it just shows that the culture has completely accepted it as an art form. And so now young kids that get into hip-hop, maybe one of their friends will be like, hey, you ever heard of this? And then they turn them on to new stuff. And they're like, wow, yeah, yeah. And this is 1992.

That shit, you know, and I think that that's how we were. We always were infatuated with the music before our time, you know? Like how you just said, like, you know, listening to Sugar Hill Gang, you know? I actually had them in one of my videos before. Really? Well, you know that, and I bought them to my hood too, so you know how that felt for me?

Oh, wow. That's amazing. That was dope, though, right there, man. But yeah, man, that's why I always felt like, yo, I tell people all the time, you have to respect the people that did it before you, man, because they gave you something to dream about, to be able to instill in yourself. Like, if you don't have that, then you're not moving the way you're supposed to be moving.

You know, I remember old man would tell us if you don't know where you came from, you never know where you're going. So having that history, that history is an experience that sticks with you forever. You have to have that. Don't try to front on that. You know, and I think a lot of times people, you know, they look at hip hop and they think certain things is hip hop. It's like history

of hip-hop is something that you gotta know, man. You gotta know it. You gotta know it. You gotta know it. You should know it like the history of the United States. It's something, if you're an artist, that's what lit the fire. Somebody had to light the fire. And if these young guys don't know, hey, this shit didn't even exist in 1979. It didn't even exist.

That's not a long ago. And then all of a sudden, now it's everywhere. Like, what happened? Somebody lit the fire. And if they didn't light that fire, you wouldn't have it. You wouldn't have the embers. You wouldn't have this desire to try this thing. Exactly. And look what it is doing. Look what it did. It's like, yo, one of the biggest genres of music is like, you know, and there's a lot of times people take shots at it. Like, you know, yeah, I don't ain't talkin' negative. I ain't talkin' this. They talkin' that.

It's like, my thing to that is always like, yo, it's no different from going to see a scary movie. Exactly. Jason. Exactly. It's killing more fuckers than he was. Or he was. I hated camp. You know what I mean? Based on that, he just wanted my favorite movies. Great fucking movie. I love heat. You know, De Niro, De Niro and that. But why is it okay to do that in the movie, but it's not okay to do that in a song? Right. I don't understand it. I don't, you know, it's a bit critical.

You know is hypocritical you say it's hypocritical because they say it encourages violence And that's the same thing. They'll say about video games and like you know doesn't everybody Yeah, so what's going on really what's going on really is you have a bunch of disenfranchised people that don't have any hope and if they are around a lot of violence Maybe something will get them excited about violence if they're not disenfranchised and they have hope they're not inclined towards violence, right?

It's a societal problem. It has nothing to do with the art itself. The art itself is representative of real experiences. So if you're telling people that they can't express themselves about real experiences, you're just going like this. La, la, la, la, la, I'm not listening. That's all you're doing. That's how you feelin' at the end of this life. This is these people's lived expressions. Which is why Wu-Tang was so good. The reason why it was so good is because it was real. Like no one was questioning the authenticity of anybody that was in the Wu-Tang Clan. So it's like that,

the message that you guys were putting out, the way you were putting things out, like Wu-Tang Clan ain't nothing to fuck with. Like that is, it was like, from you to the world, you know? And if someone doesn't like that, you don't have to listen. You don't have to listen. But if you slap a warning sticker on it, you're just gonna sell more. You're gonna listen to it anyway, right? You're gonna get caught up in it anyway. It's like, look, prime example, when we made the record cream, right?

Cream was a record that didn't have nothing to do with anything, but the realness of what we were looking at. It wasn't really a song, a rap tool, have fun. It was a reality. It was a picture we was trying to paint. Cash rules, everything around me. Cash rules.

Around me, not me, should never fucking rule you, but around me. You know, in a friend from the neighborhood, he actually came up with that acronym. But I tell people all the time, my cousin, I had a cousin from Brooklyn and he used to come to Staten Island and he used to sell drugs for us and he came up with that word, cream, because he was like, yo.

Y'all your long as I make my cream. I'm good. I'm good. What the fuck is cream? Like, you know what I mean? He's like, yo, cream. Y'all, you ever see Tom and Jerry the movie and, you know, he make those big fucking sandwiches and all that? And he splash all that cream on it. And then, you know, I'm like, oh, the Tom and Jerry, the sandwiches, right? Yeah, when he made the big Sam's stuff, I mean, you're mopping off.

Nah, real shit, real shit. So the cream, the cream that was splashing all over the place, he was looking at that as that's his money. Like, I just want my cream. I just want my cream. You know what I mean? So we like, yeah, you want to get your cream. You sit up in the fucking spot all day. You want to make it cream. You want to get it. So who came up with the acronym?

Um, a good friend of ours from the neighborhood. Um, his name is raid, right? And him and method man is like, they was like real close like brothers. So when we was in the studio, um, right into it, um, he was there and, um, he just sat back and he just came up with cash rules, everything around me and him and meth.

They put it together. And next thing you know, that that was a hook. You know, at that time, for me, I was still writing a lot of stories. You know, so I wrote, believe it or not, I wrote two verses for cream. I didn't write. My mom never started off as I grew up on a crime site. I was writing about drug dealers in the neighborhood like, I know this kid by the name of Jaganti.

Giganti and Teflon with a Diamante. The Diamante's back of the days was like the five-series Benz as far as back then. And a good friend of mine was like, oh, that rhyme is cool. My thing is high. Like, oh, why you like the rhyme? Everybody else like it, he was like, it's cool, I like it. So he made me go back and change it.

And when I changed it, I started to think before I wrote it, I'm like, damn, he said, yo, we need to rhyme about shit. That's something that we could relate to, that we're dealing with around with the fuck we wake up to every day. And that's when I came with, I grew up on the crime side, you know, the New York Times side. So he, he just told you harder. Yeah, he just told me to think harder, harder. Yeah. He said, yo, chef, you could, you could, you could be a little bit more creative.

Well, Cream is crazy because it became viral. That saying dollar dollar bills, y'all became viral. But you know where I come from, the dollar dollar bill, y'all. Dollar bill, y'all. Dollar dollar dollar Tila Rock. Oh, wow. You remember that record? Yeah. Money. It takes money. Yeah. Whatever you've been saying back then. I haven't heard that before. I haven't seen this record right there. Yeah, that's an old school record right now. Fly shit, though.

But, um, yeah, meffin' them, you know, meffin' my man Ray, they sat down and they came up with cash, who would love you think around me. And it was a perfect, a perfect, you know, symbol of what we were trying to express that. We were always trying to get money, but we was dealing with certain things in our community that, you know, that we were trying to get past first to try to make some money.

And it was a sacrifice. It was like, yo, you do this shit. You might be able to get out of it alive, or you might not. So that record, you know, blowing up so big, it wound up being one of our biggest records. And it didn't have nothing to do with it. To me, it didn't feel hip-hop. It just felt like real realization.

Real shit is, we need to start listening. Like, you just played the gettles boy shit, you know what I mean? We trying to give off a message, a message. And that's what I think that people love about Wu-Tang is that we give out messages. We give out, we like an emotional rollercoaster group. We can give you the Wu-Tang Clan ain't nothing to fuck with.

And then we can give you the tears where it's like, oh shit. Yeah. The fuck is right. You know what I mean? Yo, we got to be careful. We got to look at things for real. So all I had a lot to do with being around smart guys, you know what I mean? The smartness allowed us to write the way we wanted to write. Right. And it's contagious. It was contagious back then.

But that's what I'm saying about like really good lyrics and high quality rap. It's contagious. Yeah, yeah, because everybody else's shit has to be tight too. Yeah, and you know when you're coming with a group of guys that yo, he kill it. You better come in right after coming in and say some shit that makes sense like I I give a lot of credit to our first record right protect your neck and I know that's one of your favorite shit

When Inspector Degg said a smoke on a mic like smoke in Georgia, the hell raiser, raising hell with the flavor? Yeah. That right there opened up. Yeah. Something with all of us. Yeah. You know.

I always tell Dick, I'm like, you're Dick, you are like a, you are like a Scotty Pippin. You're always gonna hit if you get the ball in your hand, you know, and he did that. He created those, that first verse that, you notice me, I jumped right in my arm.

Yeah. Wow, I'm drinking the bill, like Schwarzenegger. Yeah. The meth came and you know what I mean? Everybody kind of like... That's what's so amazing about all these killers, all these different voices, all these amazing lyrics, all on one song. Yeah, yeah. But we wanted to show the world that each one of us had a style that was unrecant. Each one of us can paint a picture within our own way.

that you will love all of us. So it's better to get us all now. You know, we'll sacrifice the little look for the bigger look later. Right. You know, and that was one of the situations where we had to dance a certain way to be like, okay, yeah, we'll take a little bit of money, but we know we're gonna be able to sell. Like you said, yeah, give us those 50. Yeah, sell them. Now, we know, you telling me you don't got the money, but you got the relationships. Okay.

Cool. As long as you got the relationship. As long as you got the money. Yeah. We going to go out there and we going to work to make it happen. But this is what's got to happen. And you know, I give all the credit to Steve Rifkin. You know, Steve was the guy that owned loud records back then. He was a part of RCA back then.

And he believed in us. He's like, yo, I'll give you all that deal. I'll give you all that deal. And next thing you know, when everybody started taking off, now you got meth and man over here, you got jizz over here, you got all the bass and over here. So we did something that was so new to the world that.

It's like, oh, shit. From the outside, it felt different because it felt like a movement. Right. It's like Wu Tang was like a movement. Exactly. It was like, it was different. It was like everybody tried the boxes. Everybody tried the boxes as a group. Yeah. So even though we knew we were a group, in our minds, we looked at it. And like you said, as a movement being created, that would eventually spread out.

and hit all corners of everything, and that was the plan all the time. That was a premeditated plan, because they wanted us to still be a group. It's like, nah, we, look, we sacrificing this and that, but we're not going to box ourselves. Right. You know, so Bob's doing that.

It kind of like really paid the way for other groups and other artists and everybody to kind of, you know, follow this blueprint. So now you have, you know, these other other guys coming out and creating their own labels and bringing in artists that they wanted to do. So to me, this kind of made hip hop a little bit more interesting because it showed that artists were starting to get more smarter, which is important. You know, we didn't want to be just

Like you said, yo, just coming in and you sell your soul and you just stay there. Nah, we can't just stay there. It's one of the hardest parts getting the right beat. Oh, the beat is everything, bro. Because it seems like all you guys are very prolific. Everybody can write. But if you don't have a great beat,

And how many great beats can you make, right? If you got an album, then another album's coming out next year, like, whoa, you got to have 16, 20 great beats. And then you got to pick from those beats, what, you know, what goes, what song and try different ways out. And you got to make sure everybody shows up at the studio. How hard was that? This shit was real, bro.

I mean, I tell people all the time, like, number one for us, like, you know, being around so many different lyricists, lyricist guys.

Beats are important. You know, I met one time a fan asked me, he said, yo, what's the most important thing to you to rhyme with a beat? He fucked me up the whole day with that. I was fucked up. And I answered him. I gave him an answer like probably like three or four minutes later. And I was like, you know what? Nobody never asked me that. I said, the beat. I said, you know why the beat? Because the beat

make sure you think about what you want to say and what you want to get across. You know, anybody could make rhymes. I can have you sit with me for fucking a month and you could be an ill fucking rapper. You, I can take you there. But to be able to have that combination factor of making

a body of work or that sound that you want, you need to have the right production. So a lot of times Wu-Tang wrote to whatever they felt. It's like how you can listen and protect your neck and you get that energy from us. Yes. You know, you get a certain energy because of that production. Then you get this energy, when you get

You get a cream, you get that. Right. So, for me, I always tell people to beat his everything. You know, and us just sitting down and waiting for Riz to come up with something. Like, one thing about Riz, he was so clever.

you know he had a team of guys that was around him that was assisting him to helping him come with different sounds and you know he played with different things and of course you know just having his ear for music and listening to other people's stuff he was able to isolate himself away from everything and start brainstorming for us so it's like a home he was like a home

He was like the Steelers back in the fucking 80s, you know what I mean? When they won four Super Bowls in a row.

He was like that once Harry Brash showing on was playing Lin Swan. He was in a zone. He was really in his own way. Especially because it became successful. Yeah. And then there was a lot of motivation behind it, a lot of energy behind it. Yeah. I hear what you're saying, but without the lyrics, the beat is not the same. I see from your perspective as a lyricist and as an MC that you would think that the beat is more important, because it's important to you to get started. To get started. But damn, as a fan,

You have those lyrics to it. Just the beats by themselves. That's not enough. Look, you know, no, no, no, no, no, no. You know how many times me it was what argued about that? And I would tell them, like, yo, listen, bro.

It took, it took all of us. It's a, yeah. You had that, you had this, we had that. That's what, you know. It's a 50-50 proposition. It's always more 60-40. I think it's more 60 lyrics because the thing is the lyrics of the thing that make you go, oh shit. Like a great beat makes you move your head and gets you going, but lyrics make you go, oh shit. Like rewind that.

Well, you know, that, you know, me is 50-50 all the time because if I have nothing to give me that energy to write. Right. Right. Right. Right. How can I give it to you if I don't have nothing? It's a collaboration for sure. It's a collaboration for sure. But it's interesting that people would think, like, what's more important? Like, what's more important? Breathing or having a heartbeat? Shut the fuck up. You need both. You need both. You have to have both.

But that's where the collaboration comes in. Yeah, I had Scott Storchen here the other day. Oh, what? Oh, yeah, I love that dude. He's so fucking talented. So out there, you know, his glasses on, just fucking chain. Like, he's feeling the music. It's like a rare savant. There's dudes like that that are like beat machines, you know, like he just feels it. It comes into his head and he feels it and just coming out of his fingers, you know? Yeah, he's a super talented. Oh, so talented.

But that kind of guy is so special. And to team the kind of guy like that up with Dre or with 50 or any of these people that he collaborated with, that's special. And that's why, like I said, you know what I mean? You can't never front on the maestro. You know what I mean? You know what I mean?

DJ has started it all. Let's be honest. Yes. You know what I mean? A DJ game, scratch records and scratching, you know, they created a synergy to the artist to be like, yo, let me, let me try this. Even, even if you go back to, like I said, look at, look at Quincy Jones, man. Look, look what the fuck he did, man. Right, right. You know, look at, look at Frank Sinatra, like, who the fuck was the hell in his fucking music, man?

Right. He was so clever. He needed a vibe though. He needed something new. Who was that guy? You ever hear Frank Sinatra when he was young? Oh, he was smoking all those cigarettes. It's a super high-pitched voice. It's crazy. It's crazy. It's crazy. You listen to the difference. Like, wow, it had so much range. What was the production though?

I don't know. I don't know. He never really got famous. Well, I think the whole thing back then was Elvis or whoever it was. Whoever was the person that was in front, everybody behind the scenes didn't really get that much respect. But he was a talent. Yeah. Who was that crazy dude that wore the wigs that shot that lady in LA? He produced all the Beatles shit.

He got tried for murder and every day in the courtroom, he'd wear a different wild wig. He created the wall of sound. Fuck, what's his name? He was really insane. Phil Spector. Phil Spector. Phil Spector, back in the day, he was known for pulling guns on people. He pulled guns on people, stick them in their mouths and shit. He was a complete psychopath. Like God? Yeah, and he's Jewish guy, I think. And he shot this lady in the mouth. Was it Jewish?

I don't want any Jewish people mad at me. Jewish people get bad when you say someone's not Jewish and they did something terrible. Hey, look, guys, we dieting. I'm just saying a little bit about it. It's a talented, successful Jewish people in the entertainment business. But that dude, he was responsible for the wall of sound, the Beatles. Like that was a big thing with him. Like he was known for being a guy that would change people's music.

Mmm Russian Jewish poosy. Yeah, what's any was on the Bronx from the Bronx. Yeah, holy shit wild wild boy Wow Shot some lady picked up some lady at a bar took her back this place and shot her in the mouth Holy shit. Yeah, he would put guns in people's mouths like he was known for threatening people like you want to get out of this fucking contract and just shove a gun in your mouth Wow What's that? You pulled a gun on chair

share a call stopping Phil Specter in his tracks when he pulled the gun on her he couldn't pull that shit with me right right right right we had this really strange relationship you don't say you don't say well it's like the music business at one point in time was run entirely by gangsters of course that's the story about Hendrix you know the story about Hendrix is that his manager killed him that's the conspiracy was that his manager killed him because it's more valuable for Hendrix to be dead his music he's a

a maestro like a one in a billion year talent and that they knew that they had all these recordings of him and they could kill him and so that's why his girlfriend jumped off of a building. Yeah, the only shit because he was going to leave his management. His bodyguard wrote a book about it years later and it just came out like I want to say like

10 years ago? One that long ago, whereas the bodyguard said, yeah, the manager killed him. Killed Hendrix and threw the girlfriend off a roof. Oh yeah, they did a bunch of movies on that. They need to do a real Wu Tang movie. I know Hulu had a series, but they need a real like Quentin Tarantino needs to do a Wu Tang. I know Quentin Tarantino. That's what I think. I think we talk Quentin Tarantino because he wants to do one more movie. How will he does a fucking Wu Tang movie?

the real Wu-Tai no point in the high lab. It's like Hulu's great, but it has to be on Hulu. You can only get that so wild on Hulu. You know, like for it to be real, real, it has to be a movie. Let me tell you something. I wrote a book, right? And so on my book, I talked about how Q-Tip, a good friend of mine, Q-Tip, he had me and Leonardo sit down.

Leonardo DiCaprio? Huh? Leonardo DiCaprio? Leonardo DiCaprio, right? And I remember Q-Tip was like, yo, set up a meme for you and Leonardo DiCaprio to meet in Brooklyn at this small pizza shop, one of Leonardo's favorite spots. And he wanted to talk to you. So yeah, that's what's up. So me and Leonardo, we started talking and he was like, yo, Q-Tip was telling me that you was thinking about trying to get guys together to create a movie.

I was like, yeah, this is what I was thinking. So make a long story short. I set up a meeting with RZA, myself, Leonardo's peoples in LA.

And I told Reza, I said, listen, before we do this hulu thing, which at the end of the day, it was a Reza's production thing or whatever he was doing. I said, I think we need to make a realistic real life movie of us. Said it shouldn't be nothing that we should play with because people need to know our real story. So Reza entertained the conversation, but

I don't know for some reason. I guess he felt like he was committed to doing whatever he wanted to do with Hulu. He might already have a deal. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, like I said, at the end of the day, the Klan. Look at that. I mean, yeah. Jamie faster than me. Jamie's the best. It was that night. And I remember that I wish we could have been able to sit down with him because the way I had him looking at it.

It was almost like I told him, I said, this would be like a smash, like the, um, slash of, of good fellas and, um, men's society. Yeah. And extend one. Yeah. You know, to kind of talk about our story and whatever. He was super open. He was like, yo, chef, what we got to do, yo, who do we need to talk to? But at that time, Reza was already in pocket on what he wanted to do. So I said, you know what, one day,

You know, maybe I might get a chance to show my version of it. Because, come on, how many Pablo Escobar movies we looked at? Right, right, right. You know what I mean? You got these guys telling it, you got people from the community. Oh, for sure. It can still be made for sure. So it can still be made. 100%. Just because there's a hulu, that doesn't mean shit. Right. But I think that at the end of the day,

You know, God willing, we will really give you guys another taste of really how we really see it. I think it would be hugely successful. I think for music, from a movie rather perspective. Would you rather see it as a movie? A movie? A movie.

Or you do it like on Netflix where you can get wild Yeah, you know do it like you know like Netflix has shit like Ozark they get wild on Netflix you get wild That's how it has to be it has to be grimy. It has to be as you want it, right?

It can't be in any way ABC after school specified. You know what I'm saying? It can't be cleaned up through a filter. It has to be good too. It has to be like good narrative. It has to be set up. The scenes have to be set up because it's very hard to take an insane career of nine of the best MCs to get together under one mastermind where all these genius talents

And they formed this movement. And you're going to condense that to two hours? Man. See, that was one of his beats right there. He was like, yo, yo, yo, bla, bla, bla, bla. But I think he could be done. I think he could be done. That's what I said. I said, yo, look, come on now. I said, people do it all the time. I said, yo, look at prime example, look at NWA. I thought NWA movie was dope.

You know what I mean? Straight out of Compton, huh? I thought they did a good job, but that was Dre and Cube and, you know, I'm sure, I'm sure you always gonna have somebody around that be like, no, that ain't it, that ain't, but it was so realistic that when I seen I was, it was like, all right, I get it. You know, Rizzi even said to y'all, you know, this is more for the younger generation to kind of gravitate to and everybody loved it. They loved it. So it was like, okay, y'all love it.

We love y'all for lovin' it. It's great, it's great, but hear me out. Opening of the movie, Rikers. Opening of the movie, you guys show up at Rikers to do the concert. We're old daddy bastards inside. That's the opening of the movie. That's the opening of the movie. You want all the real gritty, you want the gritty. But that gets everybody on the hook right away. And then he'll bring them back to the beginning.

right after that you know you put the year when i saw you make movies you pick all the greatest moments yeah and then you start with rikers which is what year was that ninety five what years that when did

What year was the old Dirty Bastard and Rikers concert? Yeah, I'm about to say look up that and what year did you guys start? What was the very first year? We started we started in 90 90 late 92 so you start you start the movie With Rikers and then you bring it back to 92 back to 92. That's what it is That's what it is. I mean just think about the incredible

amount of talent, not just not just rap bully. Jizz is like a world champion caliber chess player. 99, 2000 or so? 99, 2000? Yeah, I got an R of interview. Rizz is talking about it. And doesn't Jizz have some degree in physics?

Doesn't he have some crazy degree? Look that up, please. So you just that alone in the movies, like, come on, this is real? Just that.

Yeah, think of a movie like that. Think of a movie that starts up with the gates opening, and you guys going in, put all your belongings in the basket, the whole shit, getting frisked, checking everybody down, the guy reading you the rules, the warden telling you, do not go into the crowd, do not do the, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, cool, cool, cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we got you, yeah. Wow. Think about it. That's the beginning of the movie. That's an incredible opening for a movie.

And it really happened. This isn't bullshit. This is a bunch of dorks sitting around a table coming up with some nonsense. This is some shit that you lived through. That would be an incredible opening for a movie. And it's just so even credible even more on how we connect it because, like I said, everybody come from almost the same poverty bullshit.

Everybody had different philosophies on how they felt their lives was going into. I tell people all the time, my neighborhood was about making money. Ghost neighborhood was about taking money, taking shit from you. Jizzer being one of the MCs that

could have been down with the Juice Crew. You know what I mean? You know who the fuck the Juice Crew is? He turned it down. Real. It's like they was the hottest shit back then, Master Ace, Ben's Kane, Kuji Rat. All these dope MCs, they asked me, yo, we want you to come and get down with us. He's like, nah, you know what, nah. All these things I remember like yesterday, like... Wow. They turned it down to Juice Crew.

He was like, I love the Jew school, but I just was in this chamber right here. You know, us dirty, us with old dirty like, yo, you know, old dirty always wanted to be like, biz, biz Marky.

He had that personality, that charisma, that energy. So like you said, these are the things that I wanted to see each individual. Like, you know, and like I said, you know, shout out Hulu, man, for doing a great job. But I do agree like you, we need another movie where it really defines who we are. Yeah, you know.

that was his side of how he wanted to tell it. It's a great story. It's fine. The whole thing's fine. But I think there's something missing. And I think the something missing is a movie. It's got to be a movie. It's got to be a big screen, big thing.

And it could be done. I heard it first, man. I heard it first. I ain't have to argue what my brother's about. I mean, just imagine. Imagine when ODB does, baby, I got your money. Oh, my God. Come on. Imagine that. And that becomes this massive hit. Come on.

Massive head. Yeah, you know, yeah, you know, he had the most hits on out of all of us, right? He was so fucking talented man and so real remember when he was on MTV and they started talking about like what are you gonna? What are you gonna give? Where you gonna give your money? I keep my money and nobody's like he's like yeah, he's gonna get back. He was like go

Yeah, everybody was crying. Everybody was so real because it was so real. It wasn't like, well, I think it's really important that we establish some sort of a community fun shot the fuck up. It was just having fun. You know what I mean? But you know, we always gave back in our own ways. Of course. Well, by existing, you give back. By existing, you inspire others, by existing, how many

rap careers, how many hip hop careers were inspired by Wu-Tang Clan and all the members. Countless, countless, so many. I say that we definitely had a piece of watching the new generation grow and kind of

You know, build it, build it off the way we built ours. You know, that's important, you know, to, to reflect on that. You know, back then, like you said, nobody wasn't giving more fuckers this kind of money. Like we used the first group that ever had a million dollar video.

Wow. I remember that day, man. Rizzo was coming up with the storyboard. What video was that? Triumph. Wow. He did the Triumph shit. He was like, here we came up with all this shit. And he's like, yo, this shit's gonna cost a million dollars. You're like, what the fuck is this a million dollars? Like, do it. You know, and at that time, you know, is this it? Oh, yeah. Yeah. This is what my guy Brett Ratner.

They've been seen approaching from Brooklyn, the Bronx, Queens, and Staten Island. See the bees coming through, is it? As we will be bringing you up to the minute information. This just ends. Police are reporting that there's a man on top of the sky that's ready to jump. I'm told that he is possibly old dirty, a member of the Wu-Tang Clan. The police suspect that there could be some connection between this old dirty man

All done, baby.

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that's

Is it weird looking back now? Is it feel almost surreal that you guys did it?

a little bit to me, yeah. It has to. Yeah, to me for sure. I mean, you know, you know, I always believed in my group, man. I mean, these guys is, like you said, very talented, very talented. Sometimes we don't know our power when we come together, but we might be the only group that stick together so long, you know, because we all feed off each other every time. So to be able to reflect back when we was in our prom,

It was like, we still didn't even give our best. It was almost like, okay, yeah, we're going to do it because we have to not do it because we're all in a happy vibe, a happy moment. A lot of times we made great things happen out of nothing, you know, under pressure.

might have been turbulence in the room, might have been arguing that happened that day, but we still managed to come out with something great out of that whole time of that moment, you know? But that's what's incredible is that through all the disputes, you guys still stay together. Yeah, yeah. That's because there's no way you're going to have dying dudes and not have disputes.

Exactly. I mean, especially nine alphas, nine killers. It's hard, man. It's hard because, you know, everybody has an opinion and you want to respect everybody's opinion, you know, but it made me think about sports and it made me think about how coaches and people, you know, outside of the group are so important. See how we were we were designed. We

We huddled up, but we never really had people around us kind of like push the narrative more to show us our true power. So we made a lot of mistakes, you know, of being great, but still handling the business a little bit different from if we would have had some.

some coaches, some guidance. The problem was back then, no one knew what was going on. Nobody knew. Because it was so fresh. It was so new. The whole genre had only existed for six or seven years. So it was emerging and it was chaotic and it was so exciting, but there wasn't a lot of experts in how to manage it. It's like today, you could, you know, a young artist could come to a guy like you.

and say, hey, what should I do? Help me out. What's the path that you think that I should take? And you could give them real advice. We're back then, like, who knew? Who knew who time was going to work? They would have told you that's not going to work. You can't get nine dudes and that's crazy. How are you doing that? But it worked. It didn't just work. It accelerated everybody. It amplified all the voices. That's what was so crazy about it. It didn't just work. It worked better than being by yourself.

Yeah. Yeah. I tell people all the time, I don't, the clan, I think we all got better based on us as a collective. A hundred percent. Nobody couldn't have did it by themselves and be great. Iron sharpens iron. That's right. And that's what it is. Yeah, you guys had so many killers together, there's no way it could be great.

That's what's incredible. It's so hard for people to do that. That's why it's never been done before, which is amazing. If you think about the history of hip-hop, how many artists have come up and not one group has come together and made like a, oh, they're just like Wu-Tang.

Not one. Not one. Yeah, even when it comes to, you know, sales and, you know, each one of us was blessed to be able to go platinum and gold. But we talk about that, you know, sometimes when we all look together, we, we laugh and we say, damn, you know, no other groups did what we did, like come with guys that.

Everybody in the group went gold and platinum and this and that and I can't I couldn't name one person. He was like yo name one person that name one group that did what we did at that level back then I couldn't name it, you know what I mean because Well, everybody was branched out, you know Scarface obviously went on massive career

Did you see his little tiny desk performance? Oh yeah. Fucking incredible. Fucking incredible. Yeah. That's one of my greatest friends too man. And so different than anything else. Like the way he did it, like he adapted the lyrics to the environment. Yeah. Oh, it was incredible. Incredible.

Scott faces a real guy too many real one of the all-timers one of the all-time greats. Yeah, I haven't yet. No, I'd love to have him. I love that dude. I've had willy on I think that like there's so many amazing talents that came out of that 90s hip-hop era that like for a young guy coming up

Someone who's like interested in a career in it now is imperative that you go back go back You have to you got to explore the classics you got to see what started this whole thing Because look and you got to pull yourself in this mindset like

It's hard to imagine my experience of it because you're not going to be able to have it. It's always been around. But for me, it's like when it came around, it was this totally new thing. It's totally new sound. Totally new, like, avenue of music that existed. And everybody was like, wow, and all the young people were excited. Everybody was excited. Like, this is crazy. This is so different than everything else.

You know, and so for the people that are like making a career in it now, like, ooh, you know, I know there's like a tendency to think you're the fucking man and everything else sucks. I'm telling you, you got to abandon that. Abandon that thinking. Go back and educate yourself, you know, because it's free. Just get on. Go get on YouTube, get on Spotify, educate yourself. There's so much classic shit from the 90s that you're missing.

And all we were doing really was just, like you said, just expression. Being in the studio, smoking a lot of weed in a lot of times when we was smoking and just vibing.

It's like we were mentioning things that, you know, like today, like prime example, you know, I own a cannabis business, I'm in Newark, called Hash Gloria, you know, and see you representing us, you know. We said in rhymes, like, can it be also simple, yo, I want to have me a fat, y'all in enough land to go and plant my own sex crops. But for now, it was just a big dream, you know? So we kind of like spoke things into existence that,

at the end of the day, like, you know, now, as I sit here, and I'm my owner of a cannabis business, I'm like, wow, he was talking about things. Yo, my first joint, and it went gold. I put it on my mother's, you know, my mother's living on the wall. You know, we did that. So we were kind of like saying things that meant so much to us back then, but still dreaming.

of it being a reality and next thing you know what happens you know um like how you said you know jizz are being so intelligent and talking about science and you know meth you know talking about certain things and you know now today he's in the movie world and Rizz is a director and you know these are the things that were going through our minds as we were just smoking and listening to production

And just saying, yo, what the right next will? Where do we want to go, you know? And I think that that is important as an artist is to dream and be creative. Don't sit in one box. Like, that's the shit that just be driving me crazy a lot. Where hip-hop today is like, yo, it's just sounding too fucking repetition. Like, let's make it bigger.

Let's take it over here, over here, over here. But it just sometimes is just sitting in one fucking box where it's like, yo, come on, it's not just that.

It's about opening up, opening up the doors for everybody to be able to see so many sides. Like now, it just seems like the hip-hop shit is just being controlled by one person that's saying, yo, we want y'all to stay right there. We want you to talk ignorant. We want you to not grow. We want you to just- Whatever they think it's gonna sell.

Why is that the case? Because the same reason why they were trying to take the RZA and change him and turn him into something he's not. People always do that. They do that in comedy. They do that in podcasting. They do that in music. There's always some executive that thinks they know better and they're going to mold you and shape you and change you. And this is what we're going to do. We're going to hire an image team. We're going to do it. It's all just bullshit. It's non artists interfering with art. That's what it is.

It's when you have middlemen, you know, you have these people that profit off of your talent and they think they're going to steer it in a way that's going to be the most profitable. They don't give a fuck if you're like earnestly and honestly expressing yourself. That doesn't mean anything to them. They just want you to stay in that box because that's the box they're selling. And once it sells once, they don't want you to change it up. Remember when Icedy started a fucking heavy metal band? Oh my God. Yeah. Icedy who played a cop on TV for like 30 years. He had a song called cop killer.

Body count and everybody wanted him to be the rapper and I Steve was like meh I'm gonna do a hardcore album. It's like what? It's like what is this? This is crazy, but it's like he just didn't listen He's like I don't give a fuck what you say. I'm gonna do what I want to do And you have to give an artist that ability to do that they have to be able to change it up anytime they want and

Whatever, because whatever got them to the dance is going to keep them dancing. And they might dance to the beat of a different song, but it's going to be the same person, that same creative force that created whatever you liked in the beginning. Well, you probably like this new direction they're going to go into because it's going to be just as good.

It's like we all like, like you were saying you like Billy Joel. We both like Cool G rap. You know, it's very different. You wouldn't want to see the two of them at a concert together, you know, but that's what you have to give room for an artist. And these executives and these people that are profiting off of art without being creative, their input's always terrible. It's always terrible because they don't have a vision.

They don't really, unless you're like a Rick Rubin, like one of those cats is just like super eccentric weirdo genius dude who just knows what he likes and go, hold on, hold on, do that again. Stop that, stop, stop, stop, do it again, do it again, do it that way. Okay, can you make it echo? Do it, do it, give me an echo.

So but he's working with you cuz he's right right right he's barefoot and chit and fucking do a yoga super weirdo a scott's door type character yeah you those guys be great and they own way though they're artists though

It's like, that's different. But when you get these suits and the suits get involved and they know that, oh, we made, you know, Rayquan sold a million and 700,000 CDs doing it like this. So this is what we want from this one too. We want it to be the exact same one. We want it to do it like that. Do it like that again. Like, oh, no, no, what's this new thing you're doing?

What's this new thing when you talk about discipline? No, no, no, no, no, no, no. But that's one of the most important things about hip hop, too, is like songs inspire people to change their lives. Like gang star song discipline. Like that song inspires you to have discipline. It's a great fucking song with great lyrics. Like I said, like, yo, this shit became knowledge to us, man. Yes.

That's what I miss about hip-hop is the knowledge factor, raising our kids to be smarter and not hiding anything from them. Like you said, once you put that one in stick on it, they don't look at it. They don't look at it anyway, so why not let them see what it is and then say, yo, look, you can make these choices, but you go that way, you know what you're getting.

You go this way, you know what you gain. I think all it takes is someone today to do what you guys were doing and blow up. And then everybody would want to do it that way. If someone today became like this genius lyricist who's like pointing out things in society and became a huge artist.

But you think that music is still, you think you think the radio will play it? I don't think the radio means jack shit anymore. I think what means something now is people sharing it. That's what means. So how do they get it out there? Someone like put it on Spotify, put it on SoundCloud, put it on YouTube. Someone sees it, someone hears it, you send it to somebody, they send it to 10 people, and then it goes viral. That's what it's all about now. I think it's just be undeniable. Be undeniable. Have some shit where you listen to it, you go, oh!

Yeah, and you have your friends like you gotta listen listen listen listen listen first lines first lines. Yeah. Yeah, listen that shit. Oh my god. That's how we always sold it anyway. Oh my god. Yeah, come out of the gate with a fucking haymaker boom. This is what we do though. Yeah See damn you talking like I feel about my album. I'm about to drop Well, you know shit. I just I just been working on this documentary right for the purple team So let me just be honest what you take you back

I've been working on, you know, Only Bill for Cuban Links is my what's going on album, my Thriller album that I made 30 years ago. This year, 2025 would be 30 years. So what we done was we went back and decided to do a documentary about it. A real-life film. So it's called The Purple Tae Files because remind you, Only Bill for Cuban Links was the name of the album. But being that I came with it as a cassette,

Everybody started to call us album, the purple tape. So now, you know, we came back and we decided to do, you know, me and my team from my camp, you know, not this is, you know, the clan, of course, the clan, but this is something that was my intellectual property that I said, yo, you know what? Me and my guy sat down. My team sat down and said, yo, you need to do a documentary about this album, because you can make 50 albums. People are still going to talk about

only built for Cuban Link. So I said, damn, you know what? You're right. So what I did was I said, you know what? Let me invest in it and kind of tell the story of what helped us inspire that album, what helped us be a part of the culture and how it still allows me to still exist today. Like, if you see a lot of these guys today in the game, they still win Cuban Link chains. Yeah. You know what I mean? So who would ever thought that I'm calling my album only built for Cuban Link niggas?

Now obviously everybody named mother is wearing Cuban link chains today 30 years later. So you know that been something that I've been working on and believe it or not, we've been working on it for 10 years. Wow. So I got over 50 influential people that was in my life that was affected by that album.

to be a part of this documentary. So now, this is all in the making. We didn't actually go out there and start pitching it yet. We're finally getting ready to do it right now as we speak, as we speak.

Once the New Year kick in and all that, we will be ready to go out there and position ourselves to go do a deal with a network with this project. It's gonna be ill. It's a great idea. You know what I mean? So my thing is to talk about it in a way to where the way we made the album, all the experiences, all the things that we went through, and eventually that would wind up becoming a movie later on. Because the storyboard of how I talk about it,

is going to blow people minds because it's like, damn, this is what you was going through. This is how your mindset was because I just want people to know that that album was made because I love hip hop man. And you know, we were in a position to make something golden that at that time I was already thinking cinematic. I was already in my Marc Scorsese mindset because when I came in a clan, I was like, I don't do all the karate shit.

I don't know how I'm like that. I don't even know about drugs and hustlers and trying to get from here to there and turn my life around for the positive, you know? So we talk about this in a documentary and we go through some of the songs and like I said, you know, I got some of my guys that, you know, we had, we had, you know, we had, um, conflictions with some artists out there like big, biggie back then, everybody thought we had a beef and

You know, just it becomes interesting, but the bottom line is that's what I've been working on alongside with working on some other music. So I just said that, yo, let me get this done the right way first. And then I'm a, you know, drop some new music. So I got a definitely new album can right come out. Where's I gonna come out? The new album. I say probably like between second quarter right now. Yeah. And I never even mentioned the name of the album, but I mentioned it.

on your show, the name of the album is gonna be called The Empress New Close. You ever heard that Dutch folktale, the Empress New Close, you're familiar with it? The emperor knows where it's no close. Yeah, so that's gonna be the name of it because I feel like the status quo today, everybody follows bullshit. Nobody wants to be genuine number. Nobody wants to call out shit that makes sense. It's like, oh, have you believed it? Or I'm supposed to believe nothing that don't feel like what it's supposed to be to me.

goes back to like you said and I'm listening to everything you saying about you have to do it from this way fuck that fuck fuck radio whatever is gonna stop you from being you

You know what I mean? So this is the same mindset that I'm thinking with my hip hop. My new album that's coming like, yo, I'm not going to let you tell me that this is not what people still love. You know what I mean? I don't care. I'm just, I know what I know from coming up as a kid who loved hip hop and what inspired me so.

I'm gonna have a bowl of shit, man. I got a lot of great things that I want to give the world But yeah, that's gonna be people still love it and I'm telling you these like young kids that I have at the comedy mothership when I play them 1990s hip-hop. They just don't know yet. Yeah

Yeah, they just don't know. And we can't afford them because they wasn't a lot possible at that time. They got so much shit coming their way. Exactly. They're getting inundated by all these new artists, new TikToks. There's so much shit going on. There's so much shit going on. There's so much going on, but you know, I always say that it's always a lane for people that love music. You know what I mean? I don't care. It's like you could be 50. You know, today I'm sitting here as a 55 year old man that still have that kid in him to love

what helped me be who I am today. So I'm still at my best when it comes to making music. Like today, the chef is more of an architect artist now. I don't consider myself a gangster rapper or a funny rapper or an architect rapper, because I like to reflect on things about growth and development.

when people hear this album, they're gonna be like, damn, like, yo, he's still fucking got it. I tell people all the time, don't ever think we gonna lose that shit. That's like sitting there and saying Mike Tyson can't fight. When you know at the end of the day, he ain't lose a fucking bit when it comes to how he feels that passion for boxing or whatever. I feel the same way with my music, so get ready. But then, like I said, the name of the album is called the Emperor's New Close.

Check for that. I'm ready. I'm ready. Listen, brother. Thank you very much for being here. It was a real honor, a real pleasure. You my God, man. Thank you. And thank you for everything you guys have done over the years. I've been endlessly entertained by Wu Tang Clan for a long fucking time. There you go. There you go. And I hope somebody listens to this and makes that fucking movie. Make that movie.

Do it. We gonna make it happen. Do it the right way. We gonna figure it out. I wish I made movies. I wish I was a movie maker because that's what I would make it that way. I'd open up with that fucking Riker scene. Listen, Joe, it's never too late for us to do what the fuck we wanted to do. Never too late. Never too late. Thank you, sir. Love you. Thank you very much. Appreciate it.