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So many episode 1750, the smartest ways to spend, save, and invest sustainably with Cara Perez, author of Green Money. You're listening to So Money with award-winning money guru, Farnoosh Karabi. Each day, get a 30-minute dose of financial inspiration from the world's top business minds, authors, influencers, and from Farnoosh herself.
Looking for ways to save on gas or double your double coupons? Sorry, you're in the wrong place. Seeking profound ways to live a richer, happier life. Welcome to So Money. Release yourself from the expectation of perfection, whether that's with your money or with your sustainable actions, because that's never gonna happen and that's okay.
Welcome back to So Money, everybody. As we face the possibility of a second Trump administration rolling back critical climate action policies, it's not clear if we can rely solely on governments or corporations to solve these problems. The good news? There's a lot that we can do with the power of our own wallets to make an impact.
And that's why I'm really happy to welcome Kara Perez to our show today. Kara is the founder of Bravely Go and the author of Green Money. She has incredible and practical insights on how we can spend, save, and invest in ways that not only protect our financial future, but also help to slow down climate change. In her book, Kara gets real about the challenges we all face, like how social media creates FOMO that pushes us to over-consume, which hurts both our budgets and the planet.
If you've ever felt overwhelmed about where to start, Kara's advice will show us the way. Here's Kara Perez.
care, Perez, welcome to Sew Money and congratulations on your new book, Green Money. Thank you so much for having me and thank you. Very exciting. I know, first time author, after so many years helping people with their money, you know, green money, we want to get into it deeply on this episode, but it sort of combines your expertise and finance and
your passion for sustainable living. You could write probably a ton of other books on different subjects. Why was this particular topic important to you? And why do you think now is the right time for this conversation? You know, I think so many people are really coming to the world of sustainability. And I think as we experience different things happening in the world, like major storms, right, or hotter summers, I think people are really waking up to the connection of
how we live impacting the world around us. And of course, our money is a huge part of how we live, right? And I wanted to write this to really capitalize on this awakening that I think people are having and to be a voice for positivity in the sustainability, the money and the climate conversation, because so often people will think about
I mean, I'm sure you've had conversations with people like, oh, I can't invest, right? It's too much. It's overwhelming. I just, I don't even know where to begin. And it's the same in the sustainable living community of like, oh my gosh, the climate conversation seems so big or sustainable living. There's so many things I need to do. I don't even know where to start. And so I wanted to write this book as a guide of, hey,
here's how you can use your money to live more sustainably. And here's how you can use your money to change the world around us from step one to step two to step three, like I walk you through it. Yeah, you're right. We want the payoff right away. We want to be able to put our money to use, whether that's investing or anything else and like feel an immediate reward. Whereas with investing, the reward may not be for many, many years. And I think similarly in this sustainable living,
market. While there are some things you can do and immediately feel the impact when we think about like recycling and what does it even matter? Right. Like, I think a lot of people think, oh, it's just like one drop in a bucket. If I can't fill up the bucket, it doesn't
And the book really focuses on it all matters. And here are a variety of people. Each chapter starts with a story of people who are doing things differently and really impacting the world around them. And I just think that's, it's so encouraging to see people already doing it. And then you're like, where do I fit in? Right? How can I find my spot? And that's really what the book helps guide people to.
So how do I find my spot? I think you already brought up the overwhelm and the lack of direction. And so what are some practical ways for someone who wants to live at the intersection of making smart money moves, but also being conscious about the environment and living sustainably? How can they sort of begin to develop their roadmap? The first thing I say in the book and the first thing I say all the time is throw the idea of being perfect out the window.
I have been someone who's been working on my money and specifically working on making my money more sustainable. For example, I don't invest in fossil fuels for years. Do I still use single use plastic sometimes? Yes. Do I still have a gas powered car? Yes. So release yourself from the expectation of perfection, whether that's with your money or with your sustainable actions, because that's never going to happen and that's okay.
They're going to be conflicting realities along the way. Exactly. We live in a complex world and our money systems make our sustainable actions more complex. So we have to accept a level of complexity and a level of, okay, I did A, I wasn't able to do B, that doesn't mean I'm a bad person. So you have to throw out the black and white thinking, step one.
The second thing is I ask people, and we have exercises for this in the book, to explore what you're interested in. If you don't care at all about recycling, don't be like, you know what I need to do? Become my town's chief recycling officer.
Because you hate that, that's fine. There's so many ways that you can practice sustainability. Maybe you're really into food. You really appreciate fresh food. Okay, maybe you start volunteering one hour every single weekend at a community garden, right? You get your hands in the dirt, you see how food is grown, and you help provide food for low-income families.
That's a way to align a value and interest with a sustainable action. So I encourage people to think about, what am I interested in? What do I like doing? And then I promise you there's already an organization or a person or some sort of effort out there that is working on that.
At the same time, I'm sure you address this in your book. There is this culture of overconsumption that we live in. Fast fashion is something that a lot of us are getting accustomed to, and it's a big business. There's obviously a reliance on fossil fuels. And these are by and large systemic issues. So while you're volunteering at your local organization or doing things on an individual basis, how do you
How do you care, actually? Here's how you do it. Feel like you are making a global impact, especially when you're just one person and then there are these changes that are really reliant on policies to change and corporations and boards to actually move the needle. So how do you, I guess, say motivated? Yeah, you know, there's a phrase and I'm not
not sure who said this originally, but it's think global act local. And that's what I always, always, always tell myself, I'm not the president of the world, right? Like I can't change policy in China or policy in, you know, Ethiopia around how they manufacture clothing or how they produce food. What can I do in my own life?
Oh, and I need new pants. Instead of going out and buying fast fashion, which we know is an environmental disaster, we know as a human rights disaster, I can host a clothing swap with five women who are of similar sizes to me or not, whatever. And I can meet people in my community. I can get new to me clothing and I don't have to spend any money. So I encourage people to, and there's a whole, again, we mentioned this in the book,
There's a whole section on how to get your needs met without having to spend money in an effort to counteract that easy over consumption that is so common in American life. I think we're really seeing an interest in this with the under consumption core trend on social media right now where people are sick of everything being so expensive.
And people are sick of things being kind of garbage, right? Buying something and it breaks after two uses and you're like, that's $40. Now I can't return it. So that was just a waste question mark question mark. So I encourage people to lean into the idea of community to lean into the idea of borrowing and really acting on local levels in order to build out impact that has a ripple effect.
I love that. I also want to offer that while we're talking about sustainability and trying to save money, sometimes there's something to be said about spending more money on the higher quality product that's going to last. That's not going to be a $10 shirt that you'll just, well, it's $10, oh, well, it's spaghetti stain and I don't care. And then you go and you buy another one, whereas the nicer things that you have in your closet, the more likely you're going to take care of it. And you paid more, but
maybe you also worked with a vendor that is being thoughtful about their carbon footprint. So I just want to throw that option out there as well that spending a little bit more upfront for the higher quality goods that will last is another way to be sustainable, would you say? 100%. There's another phrase that I love. I'm sure you've heard, buy once, cry once. It's like you buy all of that. I had to say, I think about that for a second.
I saw it on Reddit, so again, I don't know who to credit for that, but yeah, you buy something once, it's expensive, and you're like, oh my God, I can't believe I'm spending $200, $1,000, right, depending on what it is, but then I'm going to use this every day, or I'm going to use this for the next two decades, right? And I think about it a lot when it comes to appliances or furniture, like I recently moved and I bought a new bed, and I was,
Shook it to my core at a new mattress price. I just hadn't bought a new bed in about 10 years and I didn't realize they had also experienced inflation, but I thought. Carrot, you sleep every night. Sometimes you just lie down in bed. It'll be noon. You'll be like, I need a little break. I've never heard of a nap. Exactly.
This is something that it's very well worth it to buy high quality. It is going to be better for your health. It's going to be better for your lifestyle. So just buy once, cry once. And so I did, you know, and I'm so glad that I did that. Now I'm looking into getting nicer sheets for myself. I'm really turning into like a bougie betting person, but I do think that that is something to keep in mind of.
Okay, I could buy. Yeah, cost per use. And to your point of if this brand is attempting to make a high quality thing that will last its consumers a long time, that's a brand I can trust as opposed to the she-ins and the team moves of the world that want to sell you garbage so that you come back next week and buy even more garbage, right?
It's a business model. Shifting from spending. Let's talk about investing, Cara. You brought it up a little bit earlier in the show and how investing in general can be overwhelming. And then I often get folks who want to know, okay, how do I layer onto my investing strategy?
this idea of being ethical and sustainable and you talk about not investing in companies that are in the fossil fuel category. We've come a long way with socially responsible investing or ERG, but there's still a lot of unevenness in how companies are being branded. It's hard to understand really what you're investing in and is this company really aligned with my values and even if
The answer is yes, we still want to make money, right? Like we're investing for the purpose of growing our wealth, not just to be socially conscious. That would be great if both things would happen at the same time. But what's your approach and how can we address those two desires, right? To be ethical while we're investing, but also get a return. Yeah.
So this is what chapter six is all about sustainable investing. And I'll use myself as an example. So I don't invest in fossil fuels, right? I don't invest in oil, coal, or gas. So no exon, no shell, nothing like that for me.
I invest in companies like Amazon. Would I say that Amazon is ethical? Absolutely not. But you are never going to find a perfect company, a company that treats its employees perfectly, that has a completely ethical supply chain that doesn't use fossil fuels. Because we live in an interconnected global world that's operating under various levels of capitalism,
which is an economic system designed to create as much profit as possible. So again, we have to release the idea that there's a perfect company out there that I can invest in that will always go up, always make me money, and never do anything bad. That's just simply not realistic to the world we live in. So I tell people, again, find a value that you really care about. For me, it's environmentalism.
And the biggest problem with environmentalism right now is the damage that fossil fuels do to our planet. So I have decided as an individual, I'll take my money out of fossil fuels. I still have my money in companies that use fossil fuels. I still heat my home with oil, right? And that's the compromise that we have to make.
I sleep just fine at night with that because I know I'm making an effort. And I know that there are hundreds of thousands, millions of other people that are also making an effort, right? They're driving electric cars. They are volunteering. They are voting in legislators who want to do carbon taxes and who want to protect our national parks and things like that. And together, we all have an impact.
And just back to your point of, I want to do the right thing. I also want to make money. Yes, that's totally fine. That's 100% how you should be approaching. I think your life and your money in this world. I encourage people to find something that is important to them and to either put their money into it or withhold their money from it as I am. I also encourage people to diversify the way that they think about wealth. So something I recently moved, I spent
11 years in Texas, I did a year in and change in North Carolina. I moved back to Massachusetts where I was born and raised, and all of my family is here. And I moved back because I have that social capital, right? I have family wealth. And since being back here, one of my aunts gave me a free kayak.
One of my uncles was like, hey, I'm going to come over and fix your car. And so there's a way of thinking about wealth in the world that isn't just money in the bank. It is our social capital. It is our skill set. It is how we move and build community in the world. And so as we think about building wealth for ourselves, yes, I want to invite you to utilize the stock market in a way that feels good for you. I also want to invite you to build these other forms of capital.
That is awesome. I love that so much. I say similar things when people lose their jobs. A lot of people getting laid off and feeling as though they've lost everything. But it's like, do you still have your education? Do you still have your network? Do you still have your work experience? Do you still have your gumption and your grit? Yes. Well, let me tell you my friend, those are all assets and resources. Exactly. Yeah. I think about all the time. There's this Arnold Schwarzenegger interview.
I love all these references in the you're bringing up. I know I just
been thinking a lot about all of this stuff recently. And he says something along the lines, like, I hate when people refer to me as self made, I'm not self made, like some in Austria and somebody like fact check me on his exact life story. But I think like his village or his gym, like fun raised for his ticket to the United States, like he didn't have to pay for that himself. When he first got here, he like lived in a, I think he lived in his gym.
And they were like, yeah, you don't have to pay rent. And he's very upfront about the way he's been supported by other people. And I just think about that all the time of, wow, Arnold Schwarzenegger, who now has a ton of money, right? Yeah. Really has such a good perspective on other types of wealth, other types of capital. And I wish more people would talk about it that way. Yeah. Wow.
She want to go and get an interview with Arnold Schwarzenegger now and talk about his money story. I wonder if living abroad and being an immigrant is maybe partly why he has these broadened views on what wealth is.
You discuss eco-anxiety in your book, eco-anxiety. Can you talk about what that is and how you are advising people to sort of work through that in cope with that? I mean, I can already tell you're going to be talking about the existential questions surrounding climate change. And you're right, you said at the top, like everyone's feeling this now.
I think that's a good thing. I think that pain is needed sometimes to sort of waken the world and everybody up to this urgent, urgent issue. Yes. So, eco-anxiety is an anxiety that people feel specifically around the future of the planet or current
ecological health on the planet. So when we talk about like saving the bees, that can cause a lot of eco-anxiety because people are thinking, well, why do the bees need saving? Like, why are the bees disappearing? Which also we've done a great job on helping rescue the bees. The bees are doing much better than they were, thanks to awareness, thanks to people making lots of changes and taking effort on that. But eco-anxiety particularly shows up in millennial and Gen Z who are
legitimately asking, you know, what will water be like in 50 years? Like, are we going to have the same amount of clean water in 50 years? Are we going to have summer eight months out of the year in 50 years because of climate change? And
This anxiety, I think, is important to address and name because it can be paralyzing for some people. And that's exactly the opposite of what we want, both as individuals in our own lives and as a collective. If we're going to kind of write the ship, we can't get frozen in fear. So I do talk about eco-anxiety in the book and ways to overcome the fear, overcome the paralyzation and ways to make changes at the individual level in your own life and at
a bigger picture higher level in the systems we live in. If you are that millennial who's like, what is going to happen to my water source in 50 years, what can we do that will make us feel more empowered towards the fate of water?
It's a good question. It's a big question. I think the very first thing is to really to consider who you listen to, especially if you're just beginning to educate yourself around this. There is a lot of misinformation and disinformation out there. And there are a lot of people who prey on your fears. They want you to be afraid so that you will follow them or pay them, right? They are using fear as a marketing tactic.
And when I was writing this book and when I pitched to this book, I was really clear that I didn't want to do that. I was like, no, no, no, no. This is going to be a very practical book. I'm a very practical person, but it's going to be a very hopeful book because there's a lot of amazing things that have already been done. We've largely saved the bees and there's a lot of people working on these solutions and it's really, it's, it's like disrespectful.
to listen to the voices that are preying on your fear as opposed to the voices that have the education and have the work experience on issues like this. So, for example, there's major drought issues in the western United States, and there are
tons of people who are working on that so i would say if you've identified a fear oh my gosh i'm worried that california's gonna run out of water. Great news there are tens of thousands of people working on that specifically in california so again find them see how you can be a part of that i really encourage people on these levels.
Yes, you can do things like planting drought resistant flowers in your yard or setting up timers so that you're not using as much personal water. But really for things like this, I encourage people to think bigger picture and to get involved at the state or federal level or to find an organization, a nonprofit.
that they can volunteer with that is working on changing that legislation because that's the way that you're going to not only overcome the fear, but move so far beyond it into action. They're like, I even forgot I was ever afraid because look at all of these people and look at myself, look at what we're doing and look at what we've already accomplished and what we're pushing for.
Coming up, Cara is going to give us her best advice for tackling eco-anxiety and finding balance between ethical investing and financial growth. But first, a commercial break.
How did you get so passionate about this, Cara, both personally and professionally? I know that as the founder of Bravely Go, you know, this is a financial education company. Financial literacy is your mission. And then as well, you're promoting sort of social justice, eco initiatives. What came first? And how did you kind of married the two, the two themes eventually? Okay. When I was a kid, like elementary school, I was obsessed with the rainforest.
I just really wanted to move to the Amazon and befriend a Jaguar. I was very befriend a Jaguar. I read a lot of books about kids who survived in the wild. I thought, I could totally do that. They have the Disney princess animal friends. I was like, I'll definitely have a friendly Jaguar. A jungle kid.
kind of like Jasmine with her pet tiger in Aladdin. I was like, yeah, I too will have a pet tiger. So I think that obsession, that elementary school obsession with the rainforest really got me into nature as a concept. And then I was a voracious reader as a kid as well. And I read the Little House on the Prairie series, which is
really all about surviving off of the land and farming and hunting. I just feel like I grew up with this fictional world. I was not farming, actually, but with this fictional world that felt very real to me, that was rooted in nature.
And so I've always been interested in recycling. I've always been interested in biking instead of driving and making these personal changes. That's just how I live my life. And the older I've gotten and the more I've educated myself around environmentalism and the more I've gotten involved, when I lived in Charlotte, I volunteered with a tree planting group for a year. And the more I've realized, this is so interconnected to our money,
I did my early 20s. I was very broke, which is what jump started my interest in personal finance. Before that, I was like, I'm an artist. I'm going to be a writer. I'm going to write the next Casablanca and win an Oscar at 25. Money is for the set in the jungle. Yes, at the jungle. I don't need to know about money. Money is for
Other people, I'm a creative, creative stuff to think about money, which I now think is very wrong. But being very low income, the most sustainable people in the United States are low-income people because they don't have money to over-consume. They are rewearing their clothes. They're fixing their clothes because they don't have money to go buy something if they just get a little tear.
And I just kind of realized, oh, these two passions of mine are so beautifully connected. And I would love to explore that more because I don't really know that anyone else in the personal finance space is really talking about that. And that's kind of been the path that I've been following ever since.
Wow. Yeah, but I also think that there is this at the same time, you know, the $10 shirt, right, or the she and Holes. They're being targeted. The target audience is like lower income, right? Because that's who could theoretically afford.
like the live aspiration to, you know, they kind of create these like trendy clothes. And so you get the look for less. Is there a change you're seeing where now it doesn't even matter what income level you're at? Like everyone's just over consuming because they can.
Yeah, so two things. The interesting thing about Sheen is that they released data around their average consumer, and it's a woman in her 30s who makes $60,000 a year. Now, depending on where you live in the US, $60,000 is not a lot of money.
But there are people who live in New York on $40,000 a year, on $20,000 a year. Not everyone is making $200,000. And then if you're in Iowa, $60,000 hits different, as the kids would say.
But I would say, so the median household income in the United States is something like $72,000, I think, $72,000 to $75,000. So 60K is not that far behind that, right? That's not federally low income is how I would phrase that.
And so that to me says she and actually isn't targeting specifically low income people. It is offering low income people to use your words to get the look for less, but they actually want to target middle class people because middle class people have disposable income. Whereas the actually low income people, they're going to buy maybe one she and top and then they're going to make that top work for a while, right? Because they do improve.
that was my like when i was in my 20s like i said i was very low income i mean i was making 15 k a year 16 k a year i remember i had these forever 21 leggings that were literally two dollars to get new and i was like nope i got to sew these bad boys up like yeah because as your value your money more than your time yes 100 percent and so
I do think that we are shifting, and I kind of lay the blame for this at the feet of social media, because we can view how everyone consumes. So we can see how the wealthiest among us consume, right? There was a woman who had like a $59 million wedding, and she broadcast it on TikTok, right? Or Sophia?
Oh, gosh, there's someone richy? Yes, thank you. I was like, somebody's famous daughter. Was it $59 million? No, no, these are two different people, but she had that very fabulous wedding. I think I usually write that the broadcast in everyone is like, oh, my gosh, I really want that. Like, even if I'm only making 60K, if I'm making 100K, we can see these hyper wealthy people and we compare ourselves to them.
And that leads to the overconsumption, like, oh, I have to buy more to keep up, right? Or I have to, the trends have changed. I have to fit in. I think social media and TikTok in particular have sped up the life cycle of how long something is cool or how long something is trendy. And it's shortening it, which leads us to buy more.
And so I do think over consumption overall is a very big problem. I do think social media feeds that, but I also think that these big fast fashion companies are or any kind of company really will take their dollars wherever they can get them.
Whether it's from low income or high income people, they are focused on that bottom line. This is so fascinating. I feel like we've moved now into an industrial examination. I'm like, what's really happening behind the scenes? The engineering and these companies are manufacturing your FOMO on purpose.
100% and they're no dummies. Like they know, you know, every time you put something in your basket online and you don't actually buy it, what happens? Oh, you get a little reminder email. Hey, did you forget something? Right. Like it's not just we made something available online. And if you happen to find it, great. They're using targeting advertisement or using email marketing. They're using influencer marketing. They are using a bunch of tools to get you to spend money.
How about some good tools for us? Do you like any online resources or even how is there a way to use AI to just achieve more of this lifestyle that is financially smart and sustainable? We need help, right? Even if it's just like, I really like this tool because it could be an investment platform, it could be this AI prompt.
Yeah, so I use for my personal budgeting, I use Empower, which is a free to use dashboard. And I use that because you can hook up all of your ideas. I use it. Yeah, I mean, it's not an ad. Hashtag not sponsored.
But yeah, it's great because you know I have my credit cards hooked up I have my investments I have my bank account so instead of having to log into three different companies I can just log into Empower and I can see oh what did I spend on you know the capital one? What did I spend on the amx? And then I also have a personalized budget spreadsheet which I know not everyone is a spreadsheet girly and that's totally okay I am I love it
So that's kind of how I personally manage my money. I would say to people, you know, if you're more analog, feel free to use a notebook to do the tracking, but I was like to let the robots do the work. But when it comes to, you know, kind of being more sustainable or thinking about where your dollars end up.
I do encourage people to join their local Buy Nothing group. Buy Nothing is this company. It's not really a company. It's a nonprofit that was started in Seattle in 2013 by these two women. It's on Facebook and there's an app. So you can go to BuyNothing.org. And the whole point of it is you buy nothing. So you can post on the app or in Facebook like, hey, I'm looking for, once I got a computer charger, my computer charger just stopped working. And I was like, hey, does anyone have this for like a 2009 MacBook? And someone was like, get it out of my house. Great.
So I got that completely for free. There's also like buy, sell, swap or buy, sell trade groups that are all over Facebook and usually, you know, they go zip code by zip code or city by city. And I also think another great tool for people to kind of live more sustainably really is your city.
What kind of programs does your city offer? Do they have a compost program? Can you put out your food scraps? Are they going to pick up recycling? Now I'm in Massachusetts and there's a statewide program that will pay you for your cans, five cents a can, which not a great way to get rich. I want to be very clear, but they reuse the aluminum, which is great. And you get to walk away with a couple of bucks, right?
I would say for kids, that's a great exercise where they're making money, but they're also being introduced to the recycling market. 100%. Yeah, that's a great idea. So what is your area doing around sustainability?
in ways that could help save you money. In mass, we also have the mass saves energy audit where the state will send out completely free to you an energy auditor and they'll go through your house and they'll be like, oh, you need more insulation. You should switch to electric here, blah, blah, blah, blah, and you get discounted rates on that.
I think a lot of states offer that a lot. Well, I should say a lot of the utility companies in various states do offer this and remember doing stories on how to save on energy bills and get an audit done. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. And everybody's best interest, right? Exactly. To serve the energy.
Yeah, save your bills, useless energy, the state wins, you win. So join your look to kind of recap. Find a way of budgeting that works for you and join your local by nothing and then look to see what your state or city or town is doing that can help you save money and live more sustainably. Wonderful. Thanks for coming on and offering such really important advice, Kara. I really appreciate you. Your book is called Green Money and we'll put a link to that in our show notes.
But if you want to learn more about Kara, she's at bravelygo.com. Bravelygo.co. But we care where Massachusetts are you because I was born in Worcester. I'm in Worcester. Oh, that's right. We established this email. Right. Amazing. Wow. I love you more. I know I could, but you're right. Shout out, Worcester. We love you. You are.
People like to hate on it, right? But it's the second biggest city in all of New England, okay? And it's got a lot going on. Yeah, but you know, I write about Worcester in my book and it's the first page. And I say, I'm from Worcester, which the New York Times calls nobody's first choice.
I'm talking about people hating on it. I was like, yeah, that's kind of true. But I think you're right. I think it is a hidden gem in many ways. Yeah. And I like to think that Worcester is very self-aware.
struggling in a lot of ways, which I appreciate. It's trying. It knows it has potential, but it's got a lot of universities. They've got the Amtrak station, which is running quickly to Boston now. So are you? Yes, they just reintroduced the express line to Boston. So yeah, it's doing a lot. I'm rooting for Worcester. They have you, so they're in much better shape.
Here we go, Worcester. Thank you so much, Kara. Thank you for having me. Thanks so much to Kara Perez for joining us. Her book is called Green Money, and I've got that link in our show notes. I'll see you back here on Wednesday for a fresh episode, and I hope your day is so money.
