#145 Angela Ford - Meet the Army Psychic Who Tracked Spies, Hostages and Fugitives

Angela Ford, welcome to the show. Thank you. I'm glad to be here and thank you for the opportunity. Well, thank you for being here, and I am very humbled to be here with you right now, and, uh,

So you first kind of popped up on my radar when I interviewed Joe McBonagall. He had brought you up in the interview, and I asked Joe to connect us, if he would connect us, and he said he would be happy to. And then I interviewed another one of your former colleagues. Actually, sounds like both of them are still colleagues to this day. But Edwin May, another fascinating guy.

And man, everybody in this space has just been so nice to talk to. And I love the subject matter. So I'm very happy you're here. I'm happy to be here. Thank you. Thank you for coming. So everybody starts off with a introduction here. And so

Angela Ford, your remote viewer, 079, you have worked for 32 years in the intelligence community. You are a member of the US Army's remote viewing at Fort Mead, Maryland from 1986 to 1985. 1995. Excuse me, 1995. You are currently a teacher at the Monroe Institute and participant

and participate in occasional projects with Dr. Ed May at the Laboratories of Fundamental Research, LFR. You're one of the few female remote viewers in the Stargate program used

to use automatic writing. Discovery Channel aired a reenactment of a case that you solved for the U.S. Customs in 1989. You were given special acknowledgement, acknowledgement, and former Secretary of Defense William Cohen's book, Murder in the Senate. You have been written about in Annie Jacobson's book, Phenomena, the secret history of the U.S. government's investigations into extra sensory perception and psychokinesis.

Do you know Annie? Yes. I just interviewed her too. Yeah. And another interview I loved and I just really happy I connected with her as well.

But so we've got a couple things to knock out before we get in the weeds. I have a subscription network on Patreon and they are our top supporters. Many of them have been with me since the very beginning and I wouldn't be here today if it wasn't for them.

Neither will we be having this conversation. So one of the things that I offer them is the opportunity to ask each guest a question. And so I thought this was a good question because a lot of people kind of categorize spirituality with remote viewing and ESP type stuff. So this is from Paul.

Have you known any remote viewers who have claimed negative spiritual experiences in the process of their remote viewing? No. No. Because people that I know were trained in remote viewing.

Okay, remote viewing is nothing more than ESP. When somebody removes views to gather intelligence, it's nothing more than what a psychic does. The information is out there.

When somebody receives psychic information, it's mental. So the information goes to the brain and then it goes on to the paper, whether you're doing coordinate remote viewing, extended remote viewing, whether you're using tarot cards, whether you're using a crystal ball. That's the manifestation of the information.

So remote viewing is nothing more than ESP. It's a nice term that the scientist used. It's a nice term to use if you're trying to get money from Congress instead of saying psychic.

And what makes remote viewing remote viewing is the methodology, meaning that the remote viewer, the psychic and the people involved in the remote viewing process are blind to the target.

That is what makes remote viewing is the methodology. But if you ask a psychic, we're going to do a remote viewing session. They're going to go into session and they're going to do whatever they need to do to gather the information. And you can't tell. You can't tell anyone. You can't tell a psychic, oh, well, you can't do that. You have to do this. Although in the Stargate program, they did have the coordinate viewing methodology because

It was a manual. It was written by Stanford Research Institute, made the manual. It was nice to have to kind of show Congress that it's more technical. It took away from the spirituality.

But the army took it as military likes to train. So when the army people saw this manual of coordinate remote viewing, then they kind of made it their Bible. And this is remote viewing. But actually, when somebody remote views, they're just being a psychic. I mean, you can see it. You could feel it. You can hear it. Whatever happens in a session, you don't know. OK, OK, that makes sense.

Now, I've had other people who claim that they're psychic, that if they've had negative experiences. And I've had negative experiences. And I remembered whenever I had started training as a psychic, I was very young.

A woman told me, she said, Angela, you're going to see positive, but you're going to see negative. You're going to feel negativity because this is what Earth is made of, there's positive and there's negativity.

But sometimes it's just there, but it's energy. It just kind of goes away. I've been doing it for so long, and so much has happened to me. It just doesn't matter. But I do, people call me up, and they get a little nervous. They go, I had this dream, and what does this mean? Or they may feel like, did I just had a guy email me the other day?

I think he got, he started seeing, I think he was seeing worms in his third eye area. And I said, and I said, your third eyes, you know, it's a chakra center that's opening up, but I don't know.

You know, I don't know. I just feel there is negative. And I know a lot of psychics that don't wanna read people if they're negative. Well, good luck to that. I mean, we're not always gonna be 100% positive all the time. And then I know people, healers and psychics, they bring a client in and they'll go through a whole exercise of, you know, talking, bringing the light, you know, blessing themselves. We only want good.

It's just, I don't know, I just, I don't do all of that, but I guess, I don't know, I guess they're just negative and positive.

Changing the subject just a little bit. When I walked up here to start the interview, my editor was sitting here and you guys were having a conversation and it sounds like you had somehow tapped into his health. Can you explain what was going on there? He asked me if I could give him a reading sometime.

And I said, well, I said, I can do it now. So I just needed his, I needed to concentrate on something. So I asked him for his birthday. And he gave me his birthday. And from his birthday, I was able to tune in. And I felt like he, I actually, I felt like he was going through a huge year of change, which he, whenever he told me what was going on. Yeah, huge change.

It just moved. Yeah, yeah. And I said, and it's a kind of aspect where people want change, but it could be more change than what you want. In other words, by the time this comes around in your life, you welcome change. But sometimes you get change that you don't want. And I said, you can even lose friends. Well,

That made sense to him. And then I don't know why. I just, I don't know why. I just, I said, just, I said, do you have a Dalek? I said, I just told him he had a Dalekid system. And he did say, I said, you have to eat like foods. Interesting. So does that just come to you? How does it come?

in many ways, just in many, many ways, just focusing. Well, then just I need a focus. I really do need a focus. And I knew I didn't have the birthday, his birthday kind of helped. I did some basic numerology. And just and and then it's just that focus and then it just kind of opens up the door. And then I can go from that. Interesting. It just opens up the door. Could you

Could you describe the chakras? Well, I guess there's these points on your body, like your hands. I think there's one in the stomach area. It's called the solar plex. And then you have the Kundalini, which is your spine. It comes up like a snake. And then you have the third eye. And you have your feet. And a lot of times when people become very sensitive or psychic,

These points, they open up. It's sort of like we have an aura. And so it's sort of like as you become more aware or as you become more psychic, you're opening yourself up more to these energies. And so you become more sensitive.

And it's a process. It's a process. Interesting. So you become more in tune with the environment. You become more in tune. Wow. And it's a process. I think it took me about nine months to go through a process. Wow. I have one more question before we get into the life story.

Not long ago, me and my wife went out to dinner with a couple that's very good friends with us. And we talk about things like this and UFOs and stuff like that a lot. And my friend's wife was talking about, she was saying that she has dreams. I believe it was dreams.

But she felt like somebody else was putting those visuals or messaging into her head. And so she would vocally say, hey, you're not welcome here. And I've seen some articles as of late that kind of talks a little bit about

I don't know if mind controls the right word, but kind of thought control. Is that a thing? Yeah, a lot of people get, it's sort of like whenever you go to a haunted house and you see a, it's the same thing. It's not like she, it's, I think what she needs to do is just recognize and just say, you know, I recognize what you're doing here and, you know,

if you can recognize what's going on. And she could say something like, look, I recognize what's going on here. And why do you want me to have this information? But I'd rather not have it. It's almost like if you see a ghost or it's like, hi, I know you're here. It's recognize it. And once you wreck, it's like they want to be recognized and then it just goes away. I think what she was

thinking was going on is that basically what I'm getting at is would it be possible for a remote viewer to inject a thought or certain feeling or maybe information into another individual's mental status?

Have you heard of that before? Yeah, because that's what they, yeah, because if somebody, I think at one point they were, it was always thought that like if somebody was kidnapped, if they would, they were trying to tell people if they were kidnapped, start concentrating on

If, I think like if a remote viewer could find the person, if the person would start, suppose you were kidnapped and somebody wanted me to find you. You could, you could start saying, you know, explaining where you are or what you're going through and I could tap into that. No kidding. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. That's what they want. Yeah. It's telepathy. That's called telepathy. Have you done that?

I have done that with my sister, I did it a couple of times, telepathy.

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Well, there's, okay. There was one instance where, and I don't know if this is, I don't, okay. When I was working for the government, I was working for Army Intelligence, I had heard that there was one of my college professors that just started working at the Pentagon. And I guess I kept meaning to call him to get in touch with him.

Well, one evening he was out and he saw my sister. And so they talked. And my sister came home and I was sleeping. So I went to work the next day and I called the guy. And he said, oh, he said, I bet your sister told you to call me. And I said, no, I haven't talked to my sister. And so he felt like, oh, wow, he said, you must be psychic because I just saw your sister less than 24 hours ago. But somehow I must have known to call him.

even though she didn't tell me that she saw him. But another instance I had with my sister was, she was in the, we were living in an apartment and I had to, she had a, I don't know what she did, she would keep forgetting a certain house key or something. So every time she would come in I'd have to,

And I can remember always just kind of sending her a message, don't forget the key, don't forget the key. And I almost, at one point, I could almost see her going back for the key and reaching for it. So I laid her on that day when I saw her, I said, did you almost forget the key? And I knew what time she had left.

I knew what time she left. Well, I kept saying, don't forget the key. Don't forget the key. Either she was going to lock herself out or I was going to get there and I would have to leave her in. And I can remember saying, don't projecting, don't forget the key. And then I kind of saw this image and I could see her going back for the key and I recorded the time.

So when I saw her later, I said, did you almost, what time did you leave the apartment? And she told me, and I said, did you almost forget the key? She said, yeah, I had to come back for it. Wow, wow. That stuff is just fascinating to me. Absolutely fascinating. Well, before we get into your life story, everybody gets a gift. Oh, thank you, thank you. So this is nice. Oh, goodies, goodies.

Those are vigilance-elite gummy bears. Oh, yeah, my husband, I'm gonna keep this away from my husband. Read them all. Yes, he saw throughout the house, but those, thank you. You're welcome, you're welcome. But, um, aren't Angela, so we're gonna start right at the very beginning. Where did you grow up?

I grew up in a small coal mining town in western Pennsylvania. I'm from Indiana County, Pennsylvania. It was where Jimmy Stewart was born and raised. Oh, cool. Cool. I'm Italian. I came from a large Italian family, both sides of my family are Italian. And when I was very young, when I was very young, I had a lot of out of body experiences.

What age did that start? Oh, three, four, five, six. I can remember

I can remember when the, I guess they say at certain points of your life, I guess you get the spark of life or there's a spark. I can remember when I began to walk, I can remember the spark going in me. And I knew it. I recognized I was a baby, but I knew a spark went in me. Wow. I was very aware of that.

And I had a lot of, and I had a twin sister who had out-of-body experiences. Now I told my mother, I would get up and I would tell my mother what my, oh, and then I started to have dreams. I started to have dreams. And there were a lot of dreams. It was about a lot of things about world events when I was six years old. And I would tell my mother and my mother would listen to me

And there are a lot of things about China, a lot of things about Russia.

I was only six years old and I would get up and talk about these Jews, but my mother would listen to me and she never discouraged me. And as a child growing up, now once I got into school and when I became busy, it didn't happen all the time. Things sort of faded away. But I was always curious in the subject because I knew I was, I was, you know, I was flying out, you know, I was leaving my body. I could see my body. I'm flying out the door.

walking through walls in the trees. So I was always interested in the subject, but I didn't. So, you know, I've got to maybe psychic sometime, but my mother was very interested in the subject.

She had my mother had all kind of paraphernalia laying around the house from Edgar Cayce to she had a lot of Edgar Cayce material. She bought a whole encyclopedia of the occult.

I still have the encyclopedia of Nicole. My mother was into it. She would listen to Jeannie Dixon and what you're a galler on TV. And she liked country, western music. And she believed in reincarnation. So as a teenager growing up, you know, she'd talk about reincarnation and turn up that country music.

And I thought she was weird and I just was. I was so embarrassed when friends would come over and one time the car radio broke and I was so happy because then we didn't have to listen to the country music.

And I was walking down the road, because it's a coal mining town, the road, not the street, then not on a sidewalk, but the road. And she had a transistor, and I was walking with my friends, and she helped that transistor out the window as she was driving. And she said, listen, Angela, and it was like a new country Western singer was singing a new song. But that's the way she was now.

So I went to college at Indiana University of Pennsylvania and

And the year that I graduated, I had a political science degree and my sister received a criminology degree. And my sister said, we should be state police. She loved criminology and the investigative work. So we decided that we were gonna be, but we were gonna be applied to the Pennsylvania Police Academy. Well, it wasn't accepting new applicants that year.

So we had graduated from college. The academy wasn't taking new applicants. I think I was just sort of, I was a waitress and I had nothing. So there was a man who taught a night class at the university that I attended. He was a chemistry teacher, but he was psychic and he taught an ESP class at night.

So I took his ESP class.

And he was pretty, he was good. Like he'd put in, he'd make everybody write a number down and hide it from him. And then he'd go around and tell you what the number was. And I liked him a lot. But what happened was, I was coming down, the police academy wasn't going to open up. So my sister and I applied to the FBI. And we were coming down to Washington DC to work for the FBI. So,

I got a call one day where I had to go to a factory to work at night because I had to and I had to quit the class because I had to make money to come down to DC. But I always remembered him and I remembered the class. So I came down to DC and then

I worked for the FBI. There's no way we could have become agents. Our eyesight couldn't have done it. And it was a very low-paying job. But I did meet, there was a woman I knew who was dating an Indian, an American Indian.

And my sister and I were invited one night. I guess it was a powwow. They called it. And there was some tribal leader. He was there was some tribal leader from the West. And he told my sister and I, he said, he said, did you have pro? Did you have dreams when you were young? Like the, and I said, yes. And he said, when you're in your 80s, whatever you dreamt about, it will be true.

Do you remember what you dropped it out? Yeah. What did you dream about? That actually that we would not, we would not have the, um, that the, the enemy would be China, not, I know what's going on with Russia and the Ukraine, but that will be resolved. That will be resolved and we will be friends with Russia again. We will be. We will be.

That was, I remember that. And it was China. It was China was the enemy. Wow. That's what I believe. Yeah. And you know, this was during the Cold War, whenever I had these dreams, you know, remember Khrushchev and

And it was unbelievable. I would say, oh no, we'll be friends with Russia. We're going to fight against the Chinese. Well, at that time in the early 1960s or late 1950s, who would have thought of that? Yeah. Can we rewind to some of your, I mean, you had mentioned out of body experiences at age three, four years old?

Well, actually four or five or maybe a little. It was before I went to school. It was before I entered school at six. What can you describe? Do you remember your first out of body experience? No, they all seem the same. You just go out of body. What did the dream entail?

Oh, it's not a dream. It's not a dream. You physically leave your body, you come out and you're here in like a aura or a spiritual form and your physical body is laying down. You can see your physical body laying down. So you're fully conscious? Oh, yeah, fully conscious. Are you able to make decisions?

Oh, sure. Yeah. It's like I want to go. Yeah. I could direct myself where to go. Wow. So where would you...

I would go outside on the tree. I can remember one time I really wanted to go. I went to the sun, I think, one time, because I really wanted to get out of the earth. I wanted to go further. But now, when I went out of body, I had no control. And I still don't have no control. When I go out of body, how I

I don't know how to go out of body, it just happens. But when I go out of body, I can direct it a little bit. I do, I can direct it. So you can't control when you, you can't control when the out of body experience is gonna happen, but you can, you are fully capable of making your own decisions, where you wanna go, if you wanna go right, left, up, down, you're capable. Are you, are you,

Do you have the ability to come back in body? Oh, sure. Yeah. So what did you think at age four, five or six? Oh, I loved it. Oh, I loved it. Did you find it odd? I didn't find it odd, but I knew as I got older, I knew I could not talk about it. Now, don't ask me how I knew that. I have no, I knew that I could not talk about it to people. Who's the first person you talked about? My mother, my mother. What did your mother say?

Oh, that's good. Did she believe you? Oh, yeah. Oh, my mother was. Yeah. Oh, my mother was weird. Oh, yeah. No, she encouraged it. She encouraged it. Did your mother have out-of-body experiences? Let me tell you what happens later. What we find out about my mother is it's unreal. She's had she had psychic. Now, my mother was psychic, but we never knew it.

and my mother would walk around the house and just make, my mother would talk like, oh, you know, this pope's gonna die, they're gonna get a new pope and the guy's name's gonna be John or, and my mother would talk like this. She remembered, she talked about, my mother would make predictions and we didn't know what she was, we never knew, we didn't call it psychic, we just thought she was, you know, a little bit, we called her,

lofty she was lofty she just didn't seem to be she was lofty and she would couple of times you know she'd be around the house making dinner talking and she said oh you know there's gonna be a war over in Israel it'll be short lived though and there was what was that there 48 hour war or something so that's how she would talk all the time but we never paid any attention to her and then she talked about reincarnation going to reincarnation so we never really paid much attention to her

Now, what happened was, I was down here work, I got a job over with, once I left the FBI, I was able to get a job. This would have been around 1980. I came down to DC in probably 1978 or 79. I left the FBI because a woman I was working with left the FBI and she went to join her husband who was working with Army Intelligence.

And she called me up, and she said, Army Intelligence is having internships. They're looking for people with political science degrees. You should apply. You'll be making more money than what you're making now. Plus, you get more, as the years go by, you make more money, so I applied.

When I started to work for Army Intelligence, I was on a two or three year intern program and I learned all about intelligence, how you collected, how you disseminated, how you produce it. I went to the different intelligence agencies to find out who's responsible for what. So I did this

and then at the end of the internship they gave me a job. I was a Central American analyst and at the time it was around the 1982-83 time period whenever you had the Sandinistas and Nicaragua and you had Noriega and Panama and then insurgencies and El Salvador and

in Honduras and then late. So it was a hotbed and I would do the current intelligence briefings every Friday for the command staff. And that's what I was doing. Well at the time my mother called me up one day and she said it was the fall and she said I need to take

You know, I want to do something. My friends and I were bored. My mother always took classes, like ceramic classes. And I told her, I said, why don't you take Dr. Bortas' ESP class at the college? It was the class that I had to quit back when I graduated from college in 1976.

So she said, I think I will. So her and her two friends started to take the class. And here, what they found out was my mother was very psychic. And they could give my mother an object, like a ring or a bracelet or a watch. And she could hold the object and she could tell you about the person who owned the object.

So now my mother recognized that she has these abilities. So my father died during that time. It must have been around 1983, 84. My father died. And she mailed me a book and she said, Angela, read

And it was a sudden death that was unexpected. I was still young. I was 29 years old. I was living with my sister. We were heartbroken. So my mother emailed me a book and she said, read this book. It will help you understand your father's death. And I did. And it was a book by Ruth Montgomery. She was a popular writer at the time. And it was called A World Beyond.

That book helped me get over my grief. But after I read the book, I started, things started. I felt like I was getting very psychic. I started to do channeling or automatic writing. My sister was taking the astrology class at the time.

And the astrologer knew that my sister and I were doing the automatic writing. So she kind of recommended us to go study with a man by the name of Fred Mansbridge in Alexandria. He owned the Mansbridge Institute. So we started studying from him.

And I was working as a Central American analyst. And at that time, somebody, the astrologist teacher told my sister about this psychic program that the government had where I worked. I heard it from my sister's astrologers. I didn't hear it from them. So I started to make inquiries where I worked. And yeah, I had heard there was this psychic program

that the army, that they had army remote viewers, I didn't even know where it was located. So I did meet with the general and I did want to go to the program. Well, it was General Stubblebine and he was retiring. This was 1984. And he was retiring. So I thought, well, I guess I lost my chance to be brought into the psychic program. And what had happened was,

he was getting ready to retire so this army psychic sitting up at Fort Meade they were sitting around ready to get orders to go someplace else and work even the civilians up there you know how the government works we're going to close this program but you're going to go here and work and you're going to go there and work so they assumed that the

the program would be shut down because General Stubblebine was retiring and he was the army. The remote viewers were being paid by the army. They were under the army. Well, in the meantime, in 1984, Dr. Jack Verona, who worked at Defense Intelligence Agency,

who was funding research into parapsychology at Stanford Research Institute and other places like Princeton and Duke University. He went to Congress and said, don't shut down the program, just transfer the program from Army to the Defense Intelligence Agency, which took about a year. And then in 1986, I was brought into the program after it was transferred.

Okay, let's rewind just a little bit. What is automatic writing? It's just, it's just a way of receiving information. Like if you ask a question, it's just a matter, it's just a way you can receive information. Okay. It's like an automatic, it's like an atomic, it's just, you just get the information through writing. So you think about a question. Something. Yeah. And you just start writing.

No, somebody asked a question and then it kind of goes, and then I, and then I just sort of write out the answer. How does that come to you?

Well, first it came slow, came very slow because, you know, the process was very slow, but now comes a little faster because I've been doing it for so long. I mean, I guess what I'm asking is, can you describe the what you're experiencing when I, if we were going to do the exercise right now? And I,

And you had a pen and you were writing. And I just asked, what's the question somebody would ask? Am I going to get my, a raise? You know, am I going to make more money? Okay. Yeah. How does that answer come to you? Can you please describe that experience?

It just comes. It's like a door. It's like just a door opens. It's, you know... Is it just a thought that is an... Yeah, it comes fast. It comes fast. It can come very fast.

It just, it comes fast. How do you clear your head so there's only that one thought, or do you? I try to. I try to. I try to be disciplined, but sometimes it just comes. I don't know if you've ever watched psychics on TV. Like, was there a man, John Edward?

or trees, they had the Long Island Side Geek. If you've ever watched them, they talk fast. The information comes fast. That's how fast it comes. In fact, I went to see John Edward in Baltimore and he came out and he said, he said, I'm gonna start giving information. And if it pertains to you, raise your hand. And then he would walk over to the person and he would say,

do not ask me any questions until I am finished talking. And he said that it's like the information just comes so fast. Is it a thought in your head that you write down or is it your hand that just writes it?

No, the hand is the manifestation. Again, the information is out in the ethers. You're asking me a question. I have to go out there. My mind has to go out into the ethers or it has to go out into this energy field. So the information is here so it manifests on the paper.

That's why a lot of people can give a reading without anything. Like, I don't know if it's like, so just stand, they don't use anything. I think I'm a little, I guess that I like to rely on my paper and pen. When did you realize, when did you and your sister have a conversation about what was going on? If it was happening to both of you?

Oh, and she came home one day and I was doing the automatic writing and I showed her what I was doing and she said, oh, I want to do that. So she did it too. Is that when she found out?

Wow. And you guys are twins. Yeah, yeah. And Joe McMonagall has a twin. Yeah. Is there any? Oh, sure. Oh, sure. Is there a lot of... My mother was psychic. I had heard years later that my father's father, before he came to the United States, he traveled all through Europe with a...

with a tray and on the tray was a bird and tarot cards. And he would make money by giving somebody a reading. The bird would pick up the tarot card and my grandfather would give a psychic reading. So I have it from my father's side and my mother's side. So it has to be a gene. It has to be a gene.

Do you think, I talk with Joe about this, I've talked to, I think I talked to Ed about this, maybe John Alexander as well. Did all humans have this at one point in time? Do you, what is it, I mean? Oh, I think it's, I think it's always been there, but we just, it's always, I mean, why are we, we're not intuitively, we know when to come out of the room. It's like,

Psychically, we know when to be born. I believe psychically, we know when to leave too. Really? Mm-hmm. I watched my mother-in-law and a brother. I feel like, yeah, I feel like they knew when to go. They knew. It's like they took themselves out. Wow.

I think we all have it. It's just not accepted in our culture. It's just not accepted in our culture. Other cultures have an easier time with it. And if this is, again, somebody's belief system, you're not going to do anything to change their mind. Yeah. I've figured that out.

I've heard a lot of people say it's, it's, it's demonic. I've heard all kinds of things. Um, what, why do you think we've lost it though? If you, if you believe everybody had this gift at one point in time, I think the church, I think, um,

Okay, you know, I watch a lot of the, I think, I think a lot of it had to do with the church back along one time ago, whenever the Christianity came about in Constantinople. And, you know, he wasn't only an emperor or a ruler, he was also wanted to be a religious leader. So I think he took a lot of things out of the, a lot of these things out of the church.

That's why you have groups like the Masons and you have these secret societies. I mean, I think these people have know this stuff, but it's just not talked about.

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hope not, but everybody's afraid of AI. I don't know, we're just going to have to think a new way. There's a book out called Human Design, and the guy that wrote it said that even children, the next generations, as they come after us, their brains will be different.

They will be more, I guess our computer systems are changing or things are changing. So when these new people come, somehow they're going to be geared up to understand maybe things that we couldn't. So there's, I guess there's an evolution. Hmm. And in that evolution, we're losing, we're losing psychic abilities.

Yeah, and we shouldn't, we should be getting, we should be gaining more psychic abilities. How would we gain more? I think just being aware of having more awareness, being more in tune and understanding that I don't understand people, I don't know, I just think being psychic really is just being aware.

You don't even, if you could just go into a room and just be aware of who's, you know, what's in that room? Who's in that room? How is that person feeling? What's, you know, read the room, read the people, but people don't do that. They just go in and talk. Yeah, yeah. So it sounds like you're kind of saying just being in the moment completely aware of your surroundings and paying attention, just paying attention to

So your thoughts to what's happening to maybe coincidences? Yeah, nothing is a coincidence. It does seem that way. Nothing is a coincidence. When did you come to that conclusion? Just because everything. I mean, how I got to Army Intelligence, I never thought I would work in DC. I would have been happy in Pennsylvania.

I had relatives that were involved in local politics. I was working on political campaigns. I was happy. When I came to DC, it wasn't easy. Working for the FBI was difficult. It was the years after Hoover had died, and they were trying to make a transition into hiring minorities.

And working with minorities. So, and then I went to army intelligence and they were. I think they had a problem because I was a female civilian and.

And you need the civilian workforce in the military, because they stay. So it wasn't easy. It really wasn't easy. But I had nothing else to go back to, even when I would try to go back to Pennsylvania. I just couldn't find anything to do anything. How did you get selected for the remote viewing program?

Well, what happened was I had found out, through my sister's astrologer, that I had found out that army intelligence, where I was working, had these psychics, they could remote viewers. I didn't know it. So I asked to meet General Stumblebahn to see if I really wanted to go to the job.

But then I got in trouble with my command. I guess because I skipped my chain of command, my immediate chain of command got very upset with me. And then General Stubblebine was retiring, so I thought that while I wouldn't be able to go.

But then he retired in 1984, and everybody thought that the psychics, the remote viewing program, would go away. But Dr. Verona picked it up in 1985 and transferred everything to Defense Intelligence Agency.

In January 1986, I got approached by the people at Fort Meade to send someone down to interview me for the job. And it took six months to get from Army Intelligence to the Defense Intelligence Agency to work as a remote viewer. They interviewed me, I did personality tests, and my clearances had to be.

sent from Army to DIA. What was the interview like? Just a personality test. Just general questions, but I think General Stubblebine told them to hire me. So it's for us.

As far as the interview, I figured I was going because it was the type of program that you couldn't apply for. It was a special access program. You couldn't apply for it. They took people, if you met somebody and you thought they could fit in a unit, that's how they were brought in. So I'm sure if a general called some, you know, like the

commander up at Fort Meade, who was the head of the remote viewers, and said to bring me on, I'm sure they would have listened to him because he was a general.

Okay, at what point did they ask why you thought, why they thought you would be, excuse me, did they ask why you thought you would be a good addition to the program? No, they just gave me this personality. They kept giving me personality tests. And they kept asking me all these questions. But the personality test, I don't know,

You know, I don't know why they, I think they took me because the general, they take me because I ended up being on the test, I ended up being like a judging person. And they're saying that perceptive people make better remote viewers. So I think it was just an exercise to just, when we interviewed her and she seems okay and we'll bring her in.

Actually, when I got there, they really didn't want me there because of my automatic writing. They said it was a bad habit. Really? Oh, yeah. And I got in trouble with my bosses by going to the general. So they gave me a hard time and I was very uncomfortable for a long time. And I was in trouble. So that made me very uncomfortable. So when I went

So from 1984 to July of 1986, before I went to the program, I was still working as a Central American analyst. Now, when I went to Fort Meade, my very first day of work, I was met by the operations officer.

And I said, hi, I'm Angela Ford. It was the first time I met him. And he said, I know who you are. And he said, and I've heard about you. And he said, you have a bad habit. He said, what you're going, he says, we're going to teach you the right way to be psychic. Well, at that point, I wasn't going to argue with them because I knew what it was like to be in trouble by going over the chain of command. So whatever, I didn't want to be in trouble again.

She said, okay, it's a bad habit. Okay, it's a bad habit. What do you want me to do? So what happened was these military people, they were all learning this coordinate remote viewing. Now, they put me with a trainer. They put me with this man. His name was Jean. And I don't think

And Gene was a civilian, and he worked in Germany. He used to be in the military, and then he worked as a civilian, and he worked in Germany. And you know, if you're a civilian and you work overseas, you're only allowed to work so many years, five years.

So five years were up and Gene needed a job. So he called the commander at the remote viewers and he said, hey, I need a job and the commander said, well, come on down here. I'll get you a job. They made him a trainer. So I don't think this guy, he didn't have much experience with psychics or

You know, he just needed a job because he needed a job. So they put me with him because he needed somebody to train because all the military people were doing training under another trainer. So they put me with this train, this train, the trainer, Jean, because he needed somebody to train. Well, when Jean found out I was doing automatic riding and the people didn't like it,

then he was giving me a hard time. We're going to teach you the right way. So I said, OK, so what are we going to do here? Now, what they did was they called it extended remote viewing, and it was nothing more than you visualize. They put a picture in an envelope.

And you sort of go down into like a meditative state, self hypnotic state, and you get visuals, and then you write down what you see. So that's what I did. That's what I did. And they called it extended remote viewing. And while I was waiting for my clearances to be passed,

from Army Intelligence to DIA to go work as a psychic, I picked up this book, it was called The Silver Mind Control by Dr. Silva. And in it, he taught, it was very close to the extended remote viewing, he taught about how you can go down and visualize, like if I want to pick up information on you, I would go down and I would visualize

I would visualize you. No, what I would do is I would turn on the TV. Okay. Okay. Okay. Now I'm going to watch Sean. So in my mind, I turn on a TV and then I see you. And then I see and then I pick up information about you. And then when I'm done, I turn the TV off and then I come back and I say, this is what I picked up on you.

That's what, or you can do it with pictures. And so I read the silver mind control and then what, so when I went to work for the unit, they were calling it extended remote viewing and it was the same thing that I read in the book. So I would in my mind whenever I was working the training targets, I'd just turn on the TV and describe the picture and come out.

and do it. So that's how I was doing. But no, I wasn't going to argue with them. They did not want me to do my automatic writing. And being in trouble before, oh my goodness, so I did that. Now, about a year and a half after I was with the program, my trainer left, the commander left,

the one woman left everybody left they brought new people in and they brought in one training officer and he he said he didn't care what people did because he wasn't wild about the coordinate remote viewing and he he

He used to be a remote viewer. He didn't care about methodology. The thing with the military was they were proud because of their methodology. They had this coordinate remote viewing, they had extended remote viewing. And this is the way that it's properly done. This is how to be a psychic. This is the way you do it. Well, I come more from a spiritual, more from a

spiritual whatever background. And I would have thought that if you're going to go work as a psychic for the government, you would have thought at some point what some of them would have picked up a book or went to a metaphysical church and done something to look into the subject. But they took it as very matter of fact. So what happened was about a year and a half things started to change. Management started to change.

And I told him, I told my boss, Fern, I said, I want to do automatic writing. He said, well, you can do it. So he would say, he would give, he said, you can go home and do it. He could be tasking. And then I'd go home and do it. But one day I walked in and I, Fern and I, I walked

I don't know what happened. I told Fern, he allowed people to do different methodologies. So I told him, I said, well, then come over and work with me, because I want to show you what I can do. And he did. And he put a target in the envelope, and it happened to be Terry Anderson, who was the

he was a hostage held by the Hezbollah in Lebanon. And I described him. I said that he's in a country that he's located in a country that's not his homeland. I felt that he probably was restricted and that I felt that eventually he would come out and he would be well.

So that hit it pretty much. So far, we started working, but we started working. Hostages, they had, they had other hostages there. They had, remember, and they had.

They had a lot of university professors at Baruch that they had kidnapped. They had a man named Poe Hill, and I kept saying his throat hurt. And he came out when he caught out, he was diagnosed with throat cancer.

Now, we were doing hostages and we were running the information up to the defense and we were running the information from Fort Meade to bowling air force base, which is what close to an hour. So whatever hostages I was working, they were running the information up and the people were taking the information and giving it to the Israeli embassy and the Israelis were acting on the information.

Now, we got a call on Sunday and they said that there was a Marine Rich Higgins. He was a Marine Colonel and he went to Lebanon and he was kidnapped. And they asked if we could find him and they were very concerned because he was military and they were afraid he was going to be killed. So I worked the case and

And I knew his movements. I was saying he's moving here. I was picking up things that they could come back and say that, okay, I was more or less matching what the intel messages were coming in. But they did not know where he was. So I looked at, they were giving me pieces of imagery. So I went to a piece of imagery and I said he's right there. And I pointed to where Higgins was.

And of course, the military people in the office said, well, there's nothing there. It's all woods. Why would he be there? But the analyst said it's old imagery. So the hostages,

the terrorist about a month later after I had put Higgins in this location, the hostages left, sometimes they let hostages go. So there was a hostage that was let go by Hezbollah and it was a German guy, Cordes. So our analyst went over to Rhine Line in Germany

to debrief him. And our analyst asked, do you know where Higgins is? And the Cordes, the released hostage said he's right there, pointed to where I had pointed to. Wow. And the analyst looked at him and said, but there's nothing there but woods. And the Cordes said, no, they built a structure there to put Higgins in.

and that's where he was. Wow, was that your first? Yeah, that was pretty good. That was, yeah, I had, I think at one time I had Terry Anderson in the Bacall Valley and the analyst came back and said, oh, he would never be in the Bacall Valley. It's not the MO of the terrorist, but he was cited in the Bacall Valley at one time. I mean, what does that feel like to get a confirmation?

Um, it was overwhelming, but see what happened was I felt good about everything, but the ability, but you know, they get, but they didn't really like me. It was just hard. Why didn't they like you? Joe had kind of mentioned that, that I don't remember his exact phrase, but it kind of sounded like he was saying you never got a fair shake.

First of all, I think they presented the fact that how I got in by a general, which didn't bother me because I worked in the system long enough to know if somebody higher up wants you, they pick you and you go. And I've seen it. And I've seen they do it with males. And I think because I was female, I think because I had the ability before I went in, they could not control that.

Interesting. So most of the majority of the remote viewers, they don't have the ability before? No, they just, they, no, they, the army felt that you could bring people in and train them. And you can train a person. You can put, you can put a picture in an envelope and you can train a person how to access and describe that picture. But I could go, I could find people, I could find things.

that was just something I could do. It was like, instead it was my mind that was the way my mind worked. I think they resented the fact of how I got in, the fact that

And they knew, they knew I had this ability and I can remember when my information started to be, when they were using my information for operational purposes, they were fighting with my boss because they felt that

I wasn't, it wasn't scientifically proven. How are you going to scientifically prove it? I don't know. And that they wanted to, they needed results. I had to prove my results to them before it should be used in an operational mode. Why would I have to prove myself to them? They're not scientists. They were hired to remote view just like me.

But I did, I think, because of the information, we were working in a fully operational mode. They came down, they couldn't find cadofis. Remember the cadofis were supposed to have had a chemical plant that nobody could find? Or they said, they knew where it was, but they didn't know how the chemicals were getting there. Every time they would go, they could never find the chemicals. So they asked me,

you know they said what's going on so i said they were bringing it in i named this vessel and i called it potato and i spelled it like potato so we wrote a report up and we brought it to the it was brought to the analyst

And Dr. Varona saw the report sitting on the analyst desk. And he says, does this mean anything to you? And the analyst said, well, the vessel's not potato. It's potato. It's a B instead of a P. But I spelled it with with the P. So.

And so Dr. Verona said, do you think this, how we describe the report or the scenario? He said, do you think this is viable? And he said, yeah, the analyst suggests. So they, Dr. Verona went to the, um, the commander of DIA, Defense Intelligence Agency, and they called, they called Turkey and they pulled up a submarine to watch that vessel. And, um, and they,

It came back as highly probable.

They watched the vessel, the vessel sailed the route that I said it was gonna sail. They said it probably did have the chemicals on board or it was probably the way they were getting in and out. But it wasn't highly successful or successful, it was highly probable. No good. But that was good enough. So that was nerve wracking to think that they're gonna pull up

a submarine based on my information. Now that really made me nervous. It made my boss nervous because that was a soul, you know, an intelligence. You'd need several sources of information before you'll go out and look at something. It was so source. So they had a lot of confidence in you. They did. Do what they have, would they have other remote viewers on the same project to see if

Yeah, they would. And the analysts that we were working with, they would ask the other remote viewers could not work as fast as I could. And I was good at finding things. I was good at describing people. See, I was good at personalities. I was good at finding things.

The other remote viewers were just taught, put the picture in the envelope. It's a Soviet structure. They could be building. It was just, it was a different type of, I was, I was performing it a different, different way. Did, were you the only one that had differences from your colleagues or were there other unique methods?

No, there were two, there were two, there was coordinate remote viewing and extended remote viewing. And then I did my channeling and Dr. Verona decided to call it WRV, written remote viewing. Interesting. A girl came in after me. I taught her, she liked, she liked what I did. She was pretty good and they gave her a hard time. Were you guys all centralized?

in the same place. Can you describe what would a daily routine be like at Stargate?

Well, we had two buildings and one building is where we had our desks and where we would do our reports. And then you had a second building where you would go remote view. So we would have schedules, you know, like on, there were remote viewing times. I think one was like eight o'clock, maybe 11 o'clock, two o'clock. So we would have schedules on one to remote view.

And then if we weren't remote viewing, we would come over. And just to administrative type things, instead of our desks, we would type reports. It was hard to work. You can't work a psychic eight hours a day.

When in the other building and the remote viewing building, what would the setting be like?

you would walk into a room and there would be a couch and you could sit there if you wanted to and relax and then there was a hallway and then there were two rooms and there was a restroom and the two rooms would have a chair and a desk and a bed and then you would go in the back and it was a huge room with a big table

and you could sit there and do, you could remote view. And that room had a lot of, if you needed maps, if you were remote viewing and you needed information that you had maps, you had books there.

I mean, I just, man, I want to understand the science behind this so bad. So when you remote view and you say that it's an energy field that you're tapping into or the ether or, I mean, does that mean that everything has already happened? No, it doesn't. It's easy.

It's easy to remote view the past and it's easy to remote the present because the footprint is there. Okay. Now, if you're asking me to remote view the future, I can't remote view the future, but the future has a tendency to change. It's not the footprint isn't there. So it's harder sometimes to read the future than the past and the present. Okay.

Is it mentally exhausting? Oh my goodness, yes. What does it feel like? I just couldn't. There were times I just couldn't work. I had found a fugitive, a customs agent that went bad.

they brought me in on that case we were having some we were having good luck with the hostages and we were doing some other locational work that that I was having

success with. So there was a TV program, the 10 Most Wanted. And there was a man named Charles Jordan. He was on the 10 Most Wanted list. He was a customs agent that went rogue. He took the money from the drugs, and he went dirty. He was dirty.

So customs called in Dr. Varona and said we're looking for this guy and you know in police or military organizations if you somebody if they're dirty that you know that you really they really want that guy bad to think that's it's the whole mentality is we got to have him because

you know, he's just, he's bad. So I went into session with firm and all he did is he asked me, where was Charles Jordan? And it came out, I said, love old Wyoming. And it came out like that. It just came out.

And he looked at me and he said, he was from Lovell, Massachusetts. No, I said, the guy was in Lowell, Wyoming. And Fern said, well, I was born in Lowell, Massachusetts. Are you sure you mean Wyoming? And I said, yes, because I had the feeling of the West, the Wild West, that whole feeling came over me. And I said, no, it's Wyoming.

So we had some maps there, and we were looking through the United States maps, and we looked at Wyoming. And he said, well, there's a level Wyoming, not Lowell. So I spelled it L-O-W-E-L-L, but it was really L-O-V-E-L-L. And I said, well, that's close enough. And then I wanted to leave. And I think he wanted me to work more, because in the government, you just can't have a report saying, level Wyoming.

So, but I couldn't. I figured that was it. Wow. And we didn't think we had credit for it, but we did. We found out years later that nobody believed me what I said, and then they found him.

And when they did the reenactment in 1995, we said, oh, it's too bad we didn't get credit for the, you know, for finding the guy. They said, oh, no, it was because of my information. They said the man, Charles Jordan, the one that the

He sent his mother a picture of himself to show her that he was healthy and that he was okay. And when they saw the pictures, they saw the Wyoming license plate. And so they knew I was right. And then they started looking up in Wyoming and a security guard at Yellowstone saw him, but they said, no, it was because of me. It turned the whole search around. Wow. And they found him. Wow.

Okay, no, you ask about automatic writing. It is spirit writing, if you ever heard of it. No. It's like you get, people say it's your higher self. I feel it's a guide. You know, we all have guides or angels. Okay, so what happened was, is I was writing spirit writing, and the spirit kind of identified himself as George.

I want to tell you the story because you're talking about negative and positive. My sister came home one night from work.

And I said, hey, I said, I'm doing channeling here from a little guy named George. So my sister said, oh, well, I want to do that. So she started writing. And she said, well, I got a little guy here named Morrie. She called him Morrie. And at one point, Morrie said, I am a negative spirit. So I said, Louise, I said, stop doing it. I said, because I heard you can get these negative spirits. And then they attach to you. And we want everything to be good. So she said, OK.

So then I think she started writing to another guy and every once in a while, this little mori would pop up and he'd say, Hey, I'm here. And I am a negative spirit. So we were getting like kind of nervous. You, you, you had interaction with him too, as well. My sister did just your sister. And every once in a while, he would pop up. So I didn't know what to do. So, um,

I think, I don't know who I talked to. It could have been somebody at work, and they said, oh, your sister needs psychiatric help. So I went back to my sister, and I said, do you think you need psychological help? She said, probably. So we kept writing. She said, problem. Who doesn't?

And I said, I don't know about this. I don't know about Maurice. But we kind of liked him and he was sticking around and he was giving us pretty good information about, he was giving information about my mother's dead relatives who we didn't know.

So my, you know, he'd give us information and my sister would call my mother and she'd say, oh, yeah, yeah, that's right. That's right. And he said that my one cousin was going to have a baby. They've been trying to adopt for years. And oh, yeah, they're going to get their girl on March 19th, which they did. So he was pretty accurate, but then he would say, oh, and by the way, I am a negative spirit.

So I went to see Fred Mansbridge because this astrology woman told my sister, we should go see Fred Mansbridge. So the night before my sister went to see Mansbridge, she was going to have the first session with him.

Morrie said, tonight I am leaving you forever. And we said, oh, by that time, we had him around for about a month. And we're like, you don't have to leave. You're OK. And I said, and don't tell anybody he's a negative because we really liked him.

So he said, no, this is it. I'm leaving you forever. So the next night, the next day when my sister went to see Fred Manzbridge, my sister said, I'm channeling through a guide name, Morrie. And Fred Manzbridge said, no, no, no, no, you're got your

You're channeling through a guide named Maurice. Maurice is the positive, and Maurice is the negative. Address the guide as Maurice. So from that point on, she addressed him as Maurice, and Maurice did leave her forever.

He's the more he did leave her forever. So he really wasn't bad. He was good. I mean, we liked him. He was, we liked him and we're like, oh, you know, you don't have to go. So what you're saying is for every positive there's a negative. That's right. Wow. Fascinating stuff. That's why it does it. And I thought, well, there's your answer on your negativity. Man. There's your answer on your negativity.

When they bring you in, is it a single remote viewer or do they bring in a team? No, it's a single remote viewer. Single remote viewer? Yeah, you can't work with other remote viewers in the same room because you could be picking up what they're thinking. I was wondering about that. Yeah, even whenever people work in groups, when you go to these metaphysical churches or

They put psychics in a group, and then every psychic will say, you could be picking up on what the other psychic said. So no, you'd always go one at a time. Interesting. Interesting.

Angela, let's take a quick break. OK. And then when we come back, I want to talk about, I'd like to ask you about just some personal ventures, maybe that you have never shared or that you've gone on. OK. Thank you.

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All right, Angela, we're back from the break and I wanted to kind of pause on your career for a minute and I wanted to ask you about, you know, maybe some personal ventures that you've used remote viewing for. And so kind of what I'm, I mean, if I knew how to tap into this,

I just have so many questions about the past, about religion, about UFOs, about all kinds of stuff. And so I'm wondering if you use this for your own curiosity.

Oh, yeah, yeah, of course. Oh, of course. Yeah, I read it. I would read everything I could on it. Well, I mean, so here's an example. I would love to know

maybe what some of the things that were happening in World War II or the Bible or just big questions. Well, you mean use your psychic abilities to kind of figure it out. Yes, ma'am. Yeah. Sometimes you don't know if you're right though, but you don't have the feedback and so you don't know if you're right or whatever. So sometimes you have to do

You may be curious about something or think of something and maybe try to figure it out. And then maybe it'll just do some research. Maybe you're thinking was right or maybe you have to look for your feedback to see if what you were feeling was right. Interesting. What are some of the big questions that you've looked into? I guess what goes on after we leave, after we leave this, I guess after a body, a physical body,

I don't think, I sort of think that we sort of go on in some way. And I do believe that there, I was born and raised Catholic, but I had to let go a lot of that, I just had to let a lot of that thinking go.

I mean, I like to think that we go on in some way. I do believe that there was a man named Jesus that walked the earth. And, you know, there were other people too that were here to teach lessons.

But biggest thing was, you know, what happens after we go on? I'm interested to know, do we come in reincarnation? I've asked, can't do we come back? What do you believe happens when we die? I just think you're kind of met, I think you're sort of, you go over with, I believe that you go on and that you're reunited with your soul family or with,

your karma group. The way I understand it is that we come into, we come into this life with our karma group. Then karma, we have karma, good karma and bad karma. So the same people that I was with, I just think that we, somehow we come back and we come back with the same people. Really? I believe in me. Yeah, I do. What is a karma group?

Well, it's the same, like in other words, the people you know now, you knew before in the past life. Did you ever go somewhere and just felt like, like you knew somebody or that you've been there before? Yes. Yeah, that's, yeah. What do you, what do you think Deja Vu is remembering of a past life?

Do you think it's the remembering of a past life? Yeah, if it happened before, either you were at that place. I felt like I had that with a couple of my animals. Why do you think that? Why do I think what? Why do you think that we

travel with a karma group. Because it just makes, because we have things to work out with them, I guess. Who would be in that karma group? Friends, relatives, friends, people that you meet all through your life. You know, I just, everybody that you know. Everybody that, so everybody in the earth, fear of.

I think it was explained to me like, you know, you've got one million people holding this earth and then one million people come down to replace the one million people that left. Do we immediately come back? I don't know. I don't know. I don't think so. I think you kind of have to wait for your karma group to figure out, you know, if you come back this time, are you going to be my mother or my sister or my father?

Why do you think that we come back? What, what have you experienced that makes you believe that? Probably to, uh, to get better into whatever errors we have, try to replace them. Why we, there's a reason why we come back. Do we need to learn more love? Do we need to learn more patience? If you, if you had any,

experiences that solidify your beliefs? Not really. I mean, I can't, I can't, I don't have any scientific evidence. I did have a, I did have one woman put me through a past life. And I don't know if it's true. It was sort of like a hypnotic state where you kind of go and visualize a past life. And I think I was in Nova Scotia growing wheat. I remember that.

I remember that, but I remember also there was a religion there that was very strict. I can remember in whatever, under that session, I remembered belonging to an organized religion that was very strict.

And so when I came out of that, I probably figured, well, the Catholic religion that I grew up with probably, you know, that energy was probably coming from that energy from that past life. And so somehow I just, maybe I cleared myself of it in this life.

Have you, have you looked into, have you tried to look into religion at all? Such as the crucifixion? Do you have? Do you not want to talk about that? Okay.

Do you want to talk about, you had mentioned you had had a UFO experience? Yeah, when I was 13 years old, this was another thing too that had happened to me. We were playing, a bunch of us kids, we were playing baseball. It was a spring day, and it was right at that time,

that, you know, the day goes into, it was dusk where the day goes into the darkness. So we had to quit playing baseball. So we were walking across the baseball field and we heard to

And we saw an unidentified object. It was green, light with the ring around it, and it just went over us. So we screamed and we yelled, and people came out and they pointed to the object. So yeah, I did have a UFO experience. And said that, that girl kind of leads you into thinking about stuff too. It does, it does.

If you looked into any more UFO type stuff or extraterrestrial, I spoke with Joe about this and he had, I don't remember the date, but it was, I don't remember the date, it was BC, and they wanted him to remove you, Mars. And he had removed you some type of a pyramid that

that, are you familiar with this? Well, he had remote-viewed Mars. I'm just going to throw an arbitrary number out. Let's say 10,000 BC. It's probably not 10,000 BC, but I'm just throwing a number out. And he had remote-viewed Mars and he had

is experienced basically, if I remember correctly, there was pyramids and it looked like people were evading something and they were using that as some type of a protective shelter. Have you remote viewed anything in space?

Yes, but I don't trust the information because I was remote viewing Mars, but I didn't trust the information or the feedback because I don't think it was known at the time. What was the feedback? I can't even remember, but it didn't make sense.

It was at Fort Me. There was one guy there. He wanted everybody to remote view Mars. But the protocol, it wasn't good. It wasn't a clean protocol. And I just didn't trust the, and I don't even remember because I don't trust the session and I don't trust the information.

So you don't trust anything unless you get the feedback. What in remote viewing, yeah. Or the in remote viewing. But see a lot of this stuff, like a lot of times I read or I have my own personal feelings on stuff, but I don't know.

I kind of have my own feeling on things, how things go or whatever. But in the psychic world, if I'm performing, I would need the feedback, even if I give psychic readings. It's sort of I kind of have to take what my thoughts or what my beliefs are. I just take it out of the equation. Is that hard for you to do? No, because I know what I believe and I just know what I can't.

Why do you believe what you believe? Because with reincarnation. To me, it makes sense. To me, it makes sense. I had a lot of questions about

why I felt certain things or why I thought a certain way. And when I started to study about reincarnation or what I, it closed up a lot of answers for me.

It just made... I didn't believe in reincarnation at first because I was born Catholic. But once I overcame that hurdle and started saying this could be possible, I even opened up more psychically. It was like I had to get that belief system

It just was another. It was just made somehow on some level it made sense that it just opened me up more. Interesting. Interesting. It didn't scare me. It was like, you know, that makes sense. I guess energy doesn't die. You know, we can come back. Have you had any visions of past lives?

Well, I had the one woman, like I said, with the Nova Scotia, but that was like a hypnotherapist. She kind of put me under. But yeah, I feel like I may have been in England at some point, but I do. I do. I have. I had a dog. I knew I got that dog. Just I felt a path. I just.

I knew I went through something with that dog and I have a cat now that I just feel like I just feel it. It's just something you feel. I guess you can't just can't. It's an intuition.

But there are certain things I like to watch on certain things that I watch or I'm attracted to or, you know, I often wonder, well, if I have a strong attraction to something or if I'm obsessed with something, maybe I'll do some research or whatever and I think, well, maybe, maybe there's a connection there, but I don't know what it is for sure.

You had mentioned, I can't remember if it was on a break or if it was earlier in today's interview, but you had mentioned that you believe we all have angels. Or guides. Or guides. Where do those come from?

I guess from the heavenly realms, from the invisible realms, you know, they call it beyond the veil or the veil. I guess there's just a veil that kind of separates the seat. We see things here, but it's just a thin veil to see into the other realms. And I think that's where they come from. Do you believe in a higher power? Like God?

Yeah, I think that there is, yeah, and I think that God gives us a lot of free will. And I think that man makes, you know, I think God gives us a lot of free will. And that mankind maybe, like, just keeps doing what we're doing. What about extraterrestrials?

Yeah, like I said, I had the UFO experience. And whenever I moved into Washington, DC, I lived in an apartment in Washington, DC. And I had a woman friend who was, she must have been about 20, 30 years older than me. And I needed to move into Washington, DC,

And so she brought me to this apartment complex where she used to live. And so my sister and I lived in this apartment and it was small. So one day the landlord said that our neighbors were moving out, we could have the larger apartment, which we took. Well, my girlfriend called me up, my woman friend and she said, I used to live in that apartment. That's where I used to live. So one time,

One night, I got a little ring outside, and she said, my friends are here. We want to come up and see the apartment. So she came up. And she said, oh, I used to live here. And you know, your bedroom was where the baby's room was. So she was with a woman named Madeline. And Madeline said,

Ruth, do you remember what happened in this apartment? And Ruth said no. And she said, this was where the first film of UFOs were shown. And this Madeleine worked for an Egyptian researcher named the Damsky. And the Damsky was, he researched UFOs and artifacts. And they showed the first film of UFOs was shown in the apartment that I lived in.

Wow. I mean, that started the accident. Yeah. Do you believe UFOs are... I mean, some people believe it's some type of a spiritual entity, and some people believe it's actually nuts and bolts.

flying objects with extraterrestrials? And what do you think? I think that the... No, if you read the books about civilization, weren't they supposed to be here at one time and help Bildar in helped? I think they're here to help us. Are they supposed to help us? How so? I don't know. Didn't they come here and come at the beginning of Earth? They said when Earth wasn't so...

I guess they were trying to help. They had visited Earth before and they were to help mankind as from what I understand.

I mean, there's all kinds of theories out there. I am a Christian. So, you know, I believe what I believe, but there's definitely lots of theories out there about, you know, the pyramids, Stonehenge, all Easter Island, all of these things. And it sounds like, you know, I've interviewed a lot of other people like, are you familiar with Randall Carlson by chance?

Randall basically, you know, in a very dubbed down version, he thinks that the the basically that the earth resets and

that there were older civilizations that went extinct, that were possibly way more advanced than anything that we have now. And it's like a, it's just a big, it's almost like, sounds like kind of like reincarnation. Yeah, I can agree with that. A reset. I like that. A reset. I like that. That makes sense. Have you ever remote viewed anything such as that? The lost city of Atlantis.

I think I did one time, but I thought I was underwater a lot. Did it go underwater? The Atlantis? Yeah. Well, nobody's found it. OK, because I thought I was underwater. No.

Well, I have not Atlantis, but oh, the Stonehenge remote through Stonehenge, I felt like that was that in the pyramids, I felt like there was some type of supernatural helper energy there on both of those. Stonehenge and the Egyptian pyramid.

Mm-hmm. Is that something that you were more viewed or is that? Yeah, I removed viewed and I felt like they were. There was supernatural energy or help that put these things in place. Can you describe that experience? It was very expanding. I felt like the energy was very expanding and I felt there was a lot of knowledge and I felt there was a lot of light and goodness.

It was a time of learning. Especially with the Egyptian, I felt like there was, you know, it was very monumental. It was a time of learning. I felt it was good energy. It was all good energy. It was exciting. Interesting. Interesting. What are some personal ventures that really stick out in your mind?

Do you mean in remote viewing? Yes. You mean in remote viewing helping other people or remote viewing? Something that's not on the job. Oh, how I help somebody? Your extracurricular, whether it's whether it's it's you're trying to answer your own curiosities or it could be helping somebody.

Oh, yeah. I did help somebody once. I did help somebody once. And it's a funny story, and I lost his number, but I got a call one night from a guy from New York. I don't know how he got my number, but he was an older gentleman.

And this is a fun, I mean, this is just, he called me up and he said, I've never been married. He said, I want to be married. He says, I want to have children. And I guess I'm going to have to marry somebody younger because he really wanted children. So he said, do you think I'm going to be married? I said, I think you're going to get married. He goes, well, where am I going to meet my wife? Oh, and he said, how am I going to meet my wife? And I just said, she's your neighbor.

And he could hear me go, and he could hear me go, what? What are you talking about? What do you mean? I'm thinking of my neighbor. I don't have a neighbor I can meet. What do you mean? So, you know, by that time I'm just getting, he says, I'm going to go online and I'm going to find a grass. I said, OK, go online. I didn't even, you know, it was like a 10-minute conversation that, you know, I didn't even charge him money. So about three months later he calls me up and he goes, hey,

I go online, nothing's working out. You think I'm going to get married. I go, you're going to get married. And he goes, who am I going to marry? You're going to marry your neighbor. And he goes, what are you talking about? You're crazy. So we argue and we argue. And he's did this a couple of times. So one time he called

And he goes, this is Abe, and he heard me take a breath. Like, oh no, here we go again. And he goes, please, please don't hang up. He goes, please don't hang up. He said, he goes, guess what? I go, what? I go, he goes, I'm getting married. I said, who you marrying? He said, my neighbor. So I said, so tell.

He said there was a school that he lived next to a college or something. And apparently the girl was going to school there or something. So it was his neighbor. And then she happened to be his sister's neighbor. But anyway, he could tell by that time I was ready to hang up the phone with him. And he goes, please don't hang up. Don't hang up. Listen to me. Listen to me.

Wow. Okay, now are you happy? I think I'm happy, I'm happy, I'm happy. But I wanted to stay in contact with him, but to find out if he ever had children, but I'm sure he did. Wow, that's fascinating.

Before we move on with your career also, we had a wanted to save a kind of cut it on the break, but we were talking about other dimensions. How would you describe other dimensions? I don't know. I mean, I guess they're just other. I don't know. I guess.

I don't know. I mean, how can, sometimes if you look up at the stars at night, I mean, that's kind of different. I would feel like that would be a different dimension. Well, what you were describing was,

It sounded like your mother. Yeah, my mother would, I have no idea how to even explain this, but she would, she got older and my mother was very, she was very psychic. And as she got older in life, she would call me up and she would say,

she was you know she was coming home from shopping or from grocery shopping and that she would make a right you know she would turn on the road to come home and she would so she would turn on the road and then she would be somewhere and she said that she would she would be there and she would

You know, she would see beautiful stars or she'd see a beautiful scenery. And then she would sit there for a while and then she would drive home. And then it would hit her later that wherever she turned, there was no road. So what was she doing? Well, she was going up. She had to be going into another dimension or something.

She's saying she was physically in another dimension. She had to have been, and when I would go home to visit her, she would say, this is where I turn, there would be no road, it would be corn fields.

What would she experience that? Oh, wonderful. She said, oh, it was beautiful. She said that she felt a lot of peace, a lot of love. She felt energized. And she would have to remind herself that she would have to, oh, she would kind of get shocked. Oh, yeah, I'd better get home. And that happened to her a couple of times. Wow. Have you experienced other dimensions? No. Not like that. But in a different way?

Sometimes head-wise I feel I'm someplace else. I don't, not like she did, but sometimes I feel, I don't know, sometimes I feel like the planet's moving sometimes. What do you mean by that? You can feel the planets move. How so? They just move sometimes. I don't know, sometimes I feel like my head's just, I don't know.

I'm sorry, I'm bombarding you with questions right now. Would you say that psychic abilities are a form of advanced intuition, like a gut feeling? Let me give an example.

kind of talking about reading energy. Am I correct? And so is a seal. Entering a room, an unknown room on a, on a target. And I'm clearing the room.

You can feel an energy in there. You can feel who's good, who's bad. You enter into kind of somewhat of a flow state and it becomes a very intuitive experience.

I've talked to several former colleagues of mine and everybody kind of says the same thing. You're breeding energy and you're feeling the room and it's intuition. Some of it.

It's a gut feeling, you know, or when you're in a place and you feel like something bad's about to happen, sometimes people get a gut feeling. Is that similar to... That's exactly what it is. And probably you're working at a higher level than intuition. If you're going into a situation and have to figure out who's good, who's bad, and you're in a room, it's higher than intuition.

Now, they found that a lot of people in the investigative work, like a lot of cops, they developed that sixth sense. Like all of a sudden, they'll solve a case all on a hunch.

You know, and sometimes a lot of, they don't want to talk about it because they're afraid they're going to be laughed at. But yeah, a lot of investigative people, probably a lot of Navy SEALs. You develop that. You develop that. You have to develop that to survive.

So you're probably doing that. That's more than intuition. It's you're operating at a higher, it's more than, but always listen to your gut. I've learned that. I've learned that the hard way several times. Yeah, and I've gone to gut. Yeah, me too. And that happens. Yeah, I've gone against just every time I go against it,

I regret it. And so I really try not to do that now, no matter, no matter how excited I am about an opportunity or an individual that I'm about to meet or, or yeah, you get, I get a, I get a feeling about it every once in a while. And I really try to follow that. So can you,

Is this something that you can, can you tap into it or is it just switched on all the time?

Um, we mean the intuition. I think it works for you whenever I think it work. I really think it works for you when you need it. If you walk, if you want to walk through that door and you're intuition is telling you don't walk through that door. You know, if it's day, it could scream out, you're really loud. Don't, don't walk through that door. And if you listen to your intuition, you wouldn't walk through the door. I think that, um,

I don't, sometimes I think you're, it can intuition and your psychic abilities can be very high. And other times they're not as high, but you can't be psychic all the time at a high level because then you're going to be crazy. Okay. You know, I know there's a lot of naysayers out there about this and I'm, and, and, but you know, I think a perfect example of,

of this would be that people can

I can't say relate to, but if you talk to rape victims, a lot of rape victims knew they were in a bad situation before it actually happened. And do you know what I'm saying? They get a feeling that something's not right and go against their gut. And then it happens. Yeah.

And so I just, I'm trying to bring more common occurrences up to the audience so that they can always listen to the gut. Begin to wrap their head around what we're, what we're speaking about. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that, I mean, you've had experience where you know, like you think of somebody and they call. Yes. Or you know, you know, what's it, you go on out to the mail, but you know what's in the mailbox.

Yes. Yeah, that's intuition. And that's all good. But I also think too, it works at higher. It's more than that. And you can. It's more than that. I mean, even manifestation. How do you manifest something? Yeah, a lot of people are into them. Yeah, how do you manifest what you need? A lot of people

I haven't got that one yet. Do you have you felt like you've manifest things that you wanted in your life? I do. Several things. I do it. How did you visualize? You know, I don't... I don't... Now I'm starting to...

I'm understanding how tough these questions can be that I'm asking you. I don't know how to describe it. I do believe I've manifested things. I believe I've manifested. I believe that I've manifested certain things within my family. I believe I've manifested certain things within business. I believe I've manifested things, not even realizing that I've manifested them. And if you'd like, I could give you a couple of examples.

So it's interesting because me and Laura who you met were having a discussion about this. If this is all real, I mean it's a controversial subject and I said I think that

I absolutely believe that it's real because we don't understand. We only use 10 percent of our brains, supposedly. We don't understand consciousness, and I think we're capable of so much more than we have any. We put the limitations on ourselves. Everybody, there's the old saying, you know, that

There are no limits. Sky is the limit. And no matter who you are, you're putting some sort of limitation on yourself. You could be the wealthiest man in the world. Well, I still think that there are limitations in his head that are keeping him from achieving other goals, maybe not financial, maybe not business. But anyways, so some examples would be,

Here's an accidental one that I think may have happened. When I proposed to my wife, I did it in Alaska.

And I wanted to, I went there to work with a former seal named Jeff Reed, who's and I did a rod racer now. And I went up to shoot some content with him for YouTube. And when we went up there, I wanted to, it was also a vacation for me and my girlfriend at the time, and who's now my wife.

And I told Jeff when we got there, I said, hey, I want to propose to my wife here, and I want to do it under the Northern Lights. Having no idea that, and this is in August, had no idea that Northern Lights never show up in August. And I believe he said, you'll be lucky if the Northern Lights popped in October. That would be the earliest time that you'll see him. This is Fairbanks, Alaska.

Later that night, that same night that I told, and I thought, oh shit, all right, well, I guess I'll maybe I'll get a helicopter tour and do it on top of a glacier and Denali National Park or something like that. Well, fast forward, Betty evening.

He shoots me a text and says, you're not going to believe this, but the Northern Lights are out right now. And you got about 15 minutes because they never stay out longer than that. And I was like, shit. I had flown my phone crew up and I had to give them a ride from the airport. And they flew in separately. So I went and picked up the first guy, went back, picked up the second guy.

That's about an hour and a half's time worth. Then they want to tell me all about their European vacation that they went on and my and Katie. And I'm freaking out because the Northern Lights are still kicking an hour and a half later. Then it took me about an hour and a half, two hours to find a place to do it. Went all over the place. The Northern Lights finally kicked off after two, three hours of lighting up the sky. I finally found my spot.

I went away and I just thought, God, please just give me just a glimmer so that I can just propose to my girlfriend here.

They came back on. She was passed out. I've waken her up. I'm going, Hey, get up. Wake up. We got to get out and propose to her as soon as we kiss the entire sky lit up with the Northern Lights. There you go. And in August, which apparently is next to impossible. So you manifested that? I think so, you know, and I have,

Lots more examples of similar things, you know, with every aspect of my life. But that was just me thinking. Fast forward, I had, you know, psychedelics actually really opened my mind up to all of this. And I had, I don't want to get into that now,

that really expanded my mind and made me realize there are so many more possibilities than we can even imagine. And, and then got me into meditation, that got me into manifestation. And I thought, you know, I'm just going to concentrate on one thing that I want to happen.

is without having intrusive thoughts into my head. So I would start meditating, which I've gotten away from that. I would put a rife machine on. Do you know what a rife machine is? And I'll put a rife machine on during my meditation. I would let all the thoughts clear my head.

like the way it was described to me is think of thoughts like clouds and just let them all run through until you're completely at peace. And then think of what you want. And so I would do that and things would start happening so much so that it made me

It's really made me hesitant to vocalize things out loud about people that maybe have screwed me over that I don't like or whatever, because now I'm starting, I'm beginning to realize, holy shit, what do you throw out into the world might actually happen. And so I've been very hesitant to

And I used to. And then I saw some of those things come to fruition as well. And I realized how powerful thought can actually be. Meditation is very, very powerful.

Do you meditate? Not as much as I should. I used to do more, but I think it's very powerful. I do too. I knew a woman that meditated. She said one day she woke up. She says, it's like your body becomes like a river. You just flow. And she said, she woke up one morning and she said, I wanted an apple. And she said, 10 minutes later, I was at her door with a bushel of apples. But that's just an example.

Yeah, yeah, be careful what you say. But yeah, I know about peace. Sometimes you just have to feel, I don't even try to, I don't even dislike people anymore. I just let it go. Yeah. I guess they have their own lessons or whatever. I'm not quite to that point yet, but I'm working on it. There's just, there's just so much, I mean, people can be funny sometimes. Yeah. Yeah.

But, well, let's get back to your career at DIA. Okay. Where did we leave off? Well, the program ended in 1995. So I was able to, the program ended. I had to go back and I went back to the headquarters at Bowling Air Force Base and I worked as an analyst. I worked as a Russian and Chinese analyst working certain issues. Okay. What ended the program?

I think that when Dr. Verona retired, I think we lost a lot of our support. His replacement was a man who I don't think really wanted the program.

And Dale Graf had retired. We lost a lot of support. We had a lot of congressional support. We had a lot of, we had high support that just went away when certain people retired. And the people coming in, they didn't have the curiosity for the learning.

They didn't have the curiosity to try to learn how we think it works. If you go into a session to work an operational target, they were giving you too much information. They just didn't want us. And I think Congress was trying to help us. And they thought if they could get us to CIA,

at least we may have more support. Well, when they transferred us to CIA, CIA said they wanted to do a six-month study. And they did a six-month study, but they never

gave whoever did the study, they called in a company from the outside to do a study to see if ESP works, but they never gave them people the clearances so that they could read the operational successes that we had.

And they came out six months later and says, no, this doesn't work. Well, what happened was we were packing up boxes and we were packing up all the information from Fort Meade, and it ended up in Langley. And after they closed the program,

I was back at bowling working for DIA, and I got a call from a guy at the Department of Defense, a policy maker. And he said he wanted to go, he was a policy maker in charge of special access programs. And he was curious as to why that program was shut down. So he called me up and said, let's go to the CIA and get the documents.

He wanted to see the documents to find out why it was shut down whenever he knew there was some good work coming out of there. So when we went to retrieve the documents, the documents were never opened.

So the documents were never open for anybody to review them to see if we ever solved any problems. So I think the CIA did not want us.

And I think the CIA gets blamed for everything. No matter what goes wrong, the CIA gets blamed for everything. And I think the CIA had that one program back in the 50s and 60s where they were

where they were doing line control on people and giving people LSD. And Congress had to stop that. And George Tenant was the head of the CIA at the time. And I think he just didn't want to take it on. It would have been too much of a headache.

Interesting. Do you think? And also too, I think they had to start getting rid of smaller programs. There was budget too. And so I think CIA must, I think they got a message from Congress saying get rid of your small programs or something. And they got scared so they just erased them.

But I do think that they did not give the program, when they brought in that agency to say whether or not this can be used in an operational mode, I don't think that we were given a fair shake because it was used in an operational mode and we've had successes.

Do you think that the program continued on under a different name at a later date? No. And if it did not, when our program existed, it was congressionally mandated. We had the remote viewers, we had the research that we had research going on. The government was paying Stanford. We had a lot of research money going out. And then we had the foreign assessment

meaning we had an analyst looking at what other countries were doing. So it was a robust program. Plus, we needed...

Now, when I went back to DIA and worked, a lot of people would say, oh, I remote view and I'm in touch and this is what I get and this is what, I don't know, I don't think there was. And even if there was, they weren't doing it in the formal way that was being done.