12/16/24: Air Force Base Closed Over Drones, CEOs Panic After Assassination, Biden Pardons Crooked Judge, Pelosi Hospitalized

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Hey guys, Sagar and Crystal here. Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election, and we are so excited about what that means for the future of the show. This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else. So if that is something that's important to you, please go to breakingpoints.com, become a member today, and you'll get access to our full shows, unedited, ad-free, and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

We need your help to build the future of independent news media, and we hope to see you at breakingpoints.com. Good morning, everybody. Happy Monday. Have an amazing show for everybody today. What do we have, Crystal? Dude, we do a lot of interesting things that are happening in the world. So what the hell is going on in New Jersey? It's an evergreen question, really. But this morning, we'll be exploring specifically with regards to these drones that people are reporting. Reporters have seen them. The US government is not answering any questions.

We will evaluate some of the various theories that are out there. We also have some updates on Luigi Mangione, an incredible Fox News segment where they're literally calling for Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren to resign from the Senate because of their comments expressing why people feel so much anger at the healthcare industry.

Joe Biden issued a raft of pardons, and one of them in particular is truly horrible. Break that down for you. We also have an update on Nancy Pelosi. She injured herself pretty significantly in a fall overseas. Why the hell are our nation's leaders so damn old? That is another question we will explore. Yet again, I think you've actually done some of the best commentary on those particular questions, so we can revisit some of that.

ABC News, settling with Trump, giving his presidential library $15 million to settle this defamation case. It's kind of a wild turn of events, so we'll break down what may be going on there. On taking a look at Trump's plans for a massive giveaway to crypto billionaires. And the man, the myth, the legend, Scott Horton is going to be here to talk about his new book on Ukraine, Provoked. Really excited for that conversation. I've been looking forward to that one.

It's like an encyclopedia knowledge. His brain is incredible. You guys should see that book too. I think we have a copy around here somewhere. I was flipping through. The text size is so tiny and it's still like 800 pages. It's just incredible. Unbelievable number of footnotes. And I just have the feeling that he's the type of guy who could just sit down and write it without even looking up. It's just all in there in the noggins.

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happening around here and I think that you guys will really enjoy that.

really, really helps us in the algorithm, in growth. We've had an explosion of organic growth actually on our podcast ever since the election, which is amazing. Most news organizations, which we'll talk about maybe tomorrow, are significantly declining in their ratings and others, but we have actually seen an explosion of interest, which gives me a lot of hope and a lot of heart.

Yeah, it's actually kind of fascinating who has prospered post-election and who has fallen off. It's a very, very mixed picture, but we're proud to be one of those news organizations that people are trusting in the aftermath of the election to make sense of the world. So thank you guys as always for that. And with that, let's get to New Jersey.

New Jersey. As we brought you all the news on Thursday, the mystery was beginning and it certainly had reached what I thought was the peak. And then even more drones began to appear, even more lies from the United States government. Wanted to start it off with a friend of the show, Rich McHugh's report from News Nation. Rich, for those who don't remember, previously worked at NBC News with Ronan Farrow. He was one of the reporters.

who helped to blow open the Harvey Weinstein investigation as well as a lot of other stories that were buried actually by NBC News. He is a absolute straight down the line shooter reporter. And here is his report on the New Jersey drones. You can see that he himself was skeptical going in, but this is what he had to say. Let's take a listen.

I gotta be honest here, you know, when this story first came out a few weeks ago, as a resident of New Jersey as a journalist, I didn't pay it much credence. I thought it would turn out to be a bunch of pranksters, and this would all be over by now. The experience I had last night, however, changed the way I feel about this story completely. What I saw was more sophisticated than I ever imagined. Take a look.

One, two, three, four, at least five lights, six lights. I didn't believe what I was seeing. But what was I seeing? We're here in Central Jersey. We've been looking for the past hour. I think we've seen about 40 or 50 of these drones. In fact, there's one over my shoulder right there.

One after another, after another, these drones appeared in the night sky. If you look real close, they look like fixed-wing aircraft, about 8 to 10 feet wide, colorful, white blinking lights. That is not a plane. Definitely not an airplane, but what was it? Hours earlier, I was invited to join the Ocean County Sheriff Department.

They launched their own drones to see if they could intercept the mysterious aircraft New Jersey residents have been reporting in recent weeks. The department says these mystery drones evade detection because they don't give off heat like regular drones. Why do you think that is? We don't know. It's just something that we haven't, you know, it's not something that we've had our hands on. It's not something that we've experienced. Something they hadn't experienced until now.

One of their officers called 911 after seeing 50 of them come off the ocean. Advice after we made contact with that officer that there were 50 that came off the ocean. 55-0. That was my reaction also. There were 50 that were coming off the ocean. And this is a sworn officer. A sworn officer, yes. We contacted state police, we contacted the FBI, we contacted the Coast Guard.

at which point the Coast Guard went out with their boat and they reported seeing 13 following their boat and then the Coast Guard also advised that they went over them about 300 feet and had a wingspan of about eight feet. So there you go. All the hallmarks, you might say, of a UFO full-blown UFO sighting. So I want to note a couple of characteristics. Number one, heat signature. That's one that has been well known all the way going back to David Fraver and his initial encounter with the tic-tac UFO. You also note that this is over the ocean, that then

comes on land. Three is one that happens what near a United States military installation on Thursday. Crystal, we confirmed via a statement from the Naval Air Station from Naval Station Earl that there had been a confirmed sighting over that. And yet despite all of this, we are told by our government

absolutely nothing to see here. I'm again just going to show people the images you can decide for yourself. Some they say are commercial aircraft or fixed-wing aircraft, small planes. Let's take a view actually here. We have some of these images. Here's one from Flanders, New Jersey, December 3rd, 2024. One of this is one of the early

sightings. You can see lights there in the sky. All the images that we have pulled, by the way, are from the Associated Press and others that have been vetted. This one is particularly interesting. You can see that glowing orb. I will note for some of those who see that glowing kind of circular nature, some of that can sometimes be ascribed to a camera effect as it tries to lock in on the lights, but the lights themselves and the number of drones, lights in the sky and others being observed simply just do not comport with any traditional explanation.

of a, you know, private plane or a small plane or commercial aircraft and others. Keep in mind, all of those can be tracked very easily. If anybody has, I live near airports, I do this sometimes. I open up my app and I just look up in the sky and I can say, oh, that's American Airlines 232 coming from Orlando or like, oh, that's small plane coming from, you know, wherever. It's actually a fun thing to do if you live near the airport. Yeah, it's fun.

You know where the best place to do it is? Palm Springs or somewhere with totally clear skies. You could see everything that is up there. But my point is that in with all this, none of these have ascribed tail numbers or others. They can't explain this one away. And yet they are doing everything they're damnedest while the locals are freaking out, while the state police, while the governor and others are saying, we have a full blown crisis on our head. The feds are the ones who are telling us absolutely nothing to see here at all, Crystal.

Yeah, I mean, their instinct is always in every circumstance, extreme secrecy. But they want to say like, oh, it's nothing to worry about. And it's like, OK, well, if you can't tell us what it is, how can you assure us that it's nothing to worry about? John Kirby, at the podium, this man is very schooled in lying and obfuscating all the time about all topics. Here he is getting asked about these. I don't know why exactly we're calling them drones, I guess, because of their size.

Well, because of their movement patterns, too, and the way that they're flying, you're right. I mean, calling it a drone or whatever is kind of a... It's kind of caught on. I don't really know why. I guess people assumed they were drones in the beginning. You're right. I mean, UFO is literally the correct terminology, but... In any case, let's take a listen to John Kirby trying to reassure us, but also trying to give us absolutely no information. If the president has Commander in Chief...

believed, based on the information that he'd been given, that there was a national security threat at play here, or even a public safety threat at play here. He would issue the appropriate directives to not only law enforcement, but perhaps even the military if that was needed. I want to go back to something I said at the top. There has been no evidence of any of this activity in or near restricted spaces.

Not what the senators said in the letter. They said, in fact, that they've been observed maneuvering their critical infrastructure sensitive locations, including reservoirs and military installations, and cited concern from law enforcement about public safety threats because of Medevac helicopter was prevented from transporting seriously injured patient for care because of the presence of these drones. I stand by my open statement. Can you make that make more sense?

Because I think people in New York and New Jersey see drones the size of an SUV over their house every night and think that that doesn't make any sense. I certainly understand why people would be looking at this and being concerned about it. We're concerned about it too, which is why we have the Department of Homeland Security and the FBI.

My goodness, looking at this, and we're taking it seriously. My goodness, my goodness. I like that lady's energy. She's like, come on. You can make it make more sense. It's like basically now. It's a total lie. As I just said, the navel station themselves confirmed the drone sighting. Furthermore, let's put this one up there on the screen.

Uh, this broke yesterday from the war zone. Excellent outlet. They do tremendous work over there. Drone incurred. This is all the way in Ohio. Right Patterson Air Force base was closed on Friday night after the detection, a quote of small aerial systems that were spotted over right Patterson. You can even listen to some of the audio. We didn't have time to put it in here, but it is astounding. They say drones, quote, ranging in sizes and configurations.

Uh, swarm the base. Quote, our units are working with local authorities to ensure the safety of base personnel, facility and assets. I mean, we have also had reports in Florida as far away. Uh, I mean, literally all over the country, all of them, same thing, have in common, which is yes, they're overpopulation, but many of them are United States military installations. Here we have New Jersey State Senator who has been briefed on some of the information accusing the federal government of a full bone cover up. Let's take a listen.

You know, this started as some good questions. And now it's reached the point of almost insanity. You think about a United States senator who has to go out with the local police to look for drones. That's where United States Senator is getting information. We had a briefing from the state police, the current on the state police. He was frustrated. He had no idea where these drones were coming from.

not only did I call for a limited state of emergency and the FAA shutting down the airspace for drones, but also having the Department of Defense come in and answer questions. If the Department of Defense doesn't know

where the origins are for these so-called drones, then we're in trouble. So my guess is there is information, but they're holding it back. And now what you have is panic. Originally some questions, now you have serious, serious concerns. And at the next point, somebody's going to do something stupid.

Yeah, we are in full-blown panic mode. Now, people are even shooting at them, apparently, in some jurisdictions, even though authorities are like, please don't do that. Let's put this one up there on the screen. Donald Trump, president-elect, says, quote, mystery drone sightings all over the country. Can this really be happening without our government's knowledge? I don't think so, or I says I don't think so. Let the public know, and now otherwise, shop them down.

So you could see that's clearly wrote that one. Typical eloquence. Definitely wrote that one himself. You know, it's funny if you think back to the Kirby one and he's like, if the president of the United States thought, I'm like, well, does he think anything? I mean, that's not one. Does he have a brain? Right. Does he have a literal brain power to be able to think anything who's in charge of this situation? So look, that's really what we know right now. I mean, again, at this point, sure, people are panicked. They're looking up at the sky probably more so than normal and they may be reporting some

that are, you know, fixed-wing aircraft, commercial aircraft, et cetera. But, but, and I think this is the key. You cannot, as rich laid out there, as the state police and others have shown, there have been too many now encounters, you know, pictures, videos, reports from the state and local authorities to just wash this one away. The feds, they just tell us there's nothing to worry about here. I just don't believe them. I mean, look,

We have two options. Either it's them or they have no idea. I'm in the no idea camp. I think that they don't want to panic people. They just simply have no clue what the hell is happening and that again, this is exactly like other UFO sightings in the past where they just hope that the public moves on. I mean, this has this has a lot of character. There was a swarm in Belgium.

In the 1990s, this is very similar. There have been similar incidents that happened near San Diego. That's where the Tic Tac incident occurred. There have been incidents like I just said in Wright Patterson that has now happened. But New Jersey is the most high profile. I think probably just because it's the most populated.

off the coast of Virginia Beach, too. Off the coast of Virginia Beach. Oh, you know. Another significant question. Anyone want to tell me what's in Virginia Beach? Exactly. Thank you. It's like, you know, it doesn't take a genius to figure some of this stuff out. And yet, they continue to tell us that there's nothing to see. And so, look, if it is a government program,

I mean, first of all, it's kind of interesting, extraordinary. You were able to develop a drone with no heat signature and to be able to evade all of these other state and local, uh, techno, possible, possible, right? I don't have that much faith in our government. Uh, the other option is that we just don't know. It could be a foreign adversary. They claim it's not, you know, and others, uh, I guess theoretically it could be China, Russia, or it's just simply completely unexplained. But I mean, the truth is, is that they are, it's a full-blown cover-up.

They're basically pumping the information for all eyes. I guess the good news is that the state and the local authorities are so freaked out because they have so many, they have to deal with the actual people. Yeah. They're continuing to pressure the government. What's up, everybody? I'm named Burketer to tell you about a new podcast, my hard podcast in the National Hockey League. It's NHL Unscripted with Kirk and Demers. Hey, I'm Jason Demers, former 700 game NHL defenseman turned NHL network analyst and boy, oh boy, does daddy have a lot to say?

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So it seems like, and you can tell me if there are any additional theories out there. We can just run through the theories. So theory number one, that people are just having like mass hysteria, imagining things, I agree with you can basically rule that out. I do think some like the Maryland governor, for example, is like, oh my God, I saw them and people were like, that's literally a constellation.

There are some of that going on. Certainly as people are taking in this news, looking up at the sky, seeing things that they just aren't normally paying attention to. They're like, oh my God, I saw one. There is some of that going on. But the fact that you have people like Rich McEw, Michael Tracy also was not one to just randomly imagine things or launch into some sort of hysteria, gives me enough confidence. There is something going on here. In fact, you've talked to those local

police officer sheriffs that are saying that they're seeing things as well. Okay, I don't think it's all just people are matching things. The possibility that to me has the most merit is that it's the US government, which is what explain how they could be like, it's nothing to worry about, but also we're not going to tell you what it is. I mean, their instinct is always secrecy. They keep things secret even when they shouldn't keep them secret.

So if they have some sort of technological development that they don't want people to be in on, it's plausible to me that that's what's going on. There's one theory that's floating out there that they're doing some sort of search for nuclear material or a dirty bomb or something like that. That's one of the internet theories that's out there for why there's so many of them in this sort of like grid-like pattern, etc. So that's one possibility that I think that has some merit. Another possibility is that it's a foreign government. I think that's less likely.

Because if it was a foreign adversary, they would be much more aggressively trying to deal with the situation. And I don't think they would be like, if this was some sort of, you know, Chinese, Russian, Iranian attack as one congressman floated that Jeff Andrew dude from New Jersey floated. Like, I think they would, that information would be

would be provided to the American public. And I also think that they would be aggressively trying to make sure that the problem was dealt with. So maybe, but I think to me, that's less likely. Another theory that's been floated is that basically there's been too much like, eat the rich talk out there. And this is some sort of a sigh out to distract people from, you haven't seen that one? Maybe that's in left wing Twitter, I don't know. Sorry, you're now in full blown like,

Like Luigi Mangeone, this is an attempt to change the conversation for Luigi Mangeone and healthcare CEO being murdered on the streets of New York. And so this is like a distraction tactic. That's one idea that's out there. And then the other one, obviously, is that it is aliens. And, you know, look, I'm a bit of a skeptic, not that I don't think that there's things that exist out there, but it's just that would be the most extraordinary, obviously, explanation. And so I'm going to have to see a lot more before that's the one that I jumped to. So let's run through, right?

That's the other one, which is both. Which is what? Basically this idea of like you bring in UFOs and you create. It's a PSYOP. Yeah, it's a PSYOP. It's more about to invite government control. So everyone says, oh, well, we're just testing things. Yeah, you're going to test an experimental aircraft over a massive populated center.

No, we have the entire state of Nevada is owned by the federal government, basically. We have the Mojave Desert. You have so many different testing grounds with us, no population centers. That would never happen specifically because of this. Look at all of the history of experimental weapons technology. Do they do it over majorly populated centers? No, okay, so we can rule that one.

But what about the one they're searching for something? They're not just testing. The technology is actually being used for some purpose. Or the other theory that I saw floated is that the test is to see how people are going to react and whether there is going to be some sort of like a mass chaotic pin.

theoretically possible for that to happen you would have to believe in some like hyper functional part of the United States government which is like somehow not able to leak in one of the most extraordinary domestic psyops in modern history and it just seems unbelievable like I guess theoretically possible with an extremely small team but especially in the modern era like how would that happen the second is that you think all the explanations seem unbelievable right right right exactly that's my point

open the mind. So then number three is this whole dirty bomb theory. I mean, again, you know, if we have to think about what that looks like, by the way, all of the dirty bomb plans and all this, I went and look, it's all published by NYPD and others because this is a theoretical possibility that major populated centers have been having to deal with since 2001. This does not fit with any of the established search patterns or whatever of what they would normally do. Now, I guess theoretically they wouldn't

tell us, but I mean, at this point, we've had almost 20 years to contend with what that would look like for what, you know, even radiation, et cetera. Also, if there really was a true threat like that, they would just evacuate the area or they would issue some sort of a guidance to the public. I'm not sure about that. Well, there's got to risk tens of millions of people's lives. I mean, when we've seen in the past, both here with nuclear fallout and also in, you know, Soviet USSR,

there's such a desire to keep a lid on any situation and deal with it before the public knows anything. That to me, it's not crazy that if the US government is concerned about some significantly dangerous situation, rather than sparking a mass panic, they wanna try to keep the lid on it. And yeah, I think they're willing to risk people's lives at times. So it's not, again, to me, all the possibilities are far-fetched and unbelievable. But like,

That's what we have to work with. Yeah, that's right. All a range of possibilities that are all relatively far-fetched. So I'm trying to grasp onto the one that is the least far-fetched. Let me also say, what was it, the foreign government one? So, okay, that's actually the easiest one to be able to rule out, not based on having the technology. It's theoretically possible China and Russia would have more advanced drone technology than us, but drones have to fly from somewhere. No, they can't just fly from the Russian mainland.

or the Chinese mainland, which means they would have to come off of a ship. Commercial satellite technology is widely available to literally all of us. News organizations and others can buy it straight from any of these companies. I could go out and buy it if I wanted to. And I was like, hey, give me a shot of the Atlantic Ocean or whatever.

easily found.

for something, you know, trying to not exert to, you know, have mass panic. Again, it's possible, but at this point in time, like, what could we really even be talking about, you know, in terms of what, you know, the dirty bomb thing is the one I've seen circulated a lot by. There was no evidence for that. It was just a random person on Twitter who put it out there. I mean, I get that it sounds appealing, but I guess part of what you're talking about is that, yes, all of these sound genuinely unbelievable.

And that is why I think the Fed should just tell us. If they really have no clue, they should be like, look, we don't know. We don't know what it is. We literally have no clue what it is. Give us high resolution technology. Another thing this is a tell to in terms of the feds where I think they're afraid is that they haven't activated any US military assets, US North Command.

as basically been like, we've been advised not to assist. We've not asked to be able to do anything. Another thing that we learned, remember whenever it came out with the C about that Titanic submarine and how America actually knew that all those guys died after like a day, like literally the day

Yeah, that's another one because they heard some because they knew because we have exactly we have the entire See basically wired with sonar and all of this other listening Technology like our tech for all those places extremely good like and if they were detecting and in that stuff we would know I think they're terrified because they have no clue

Our tech is so good that we have a mass operation of drones. I don't think so. Without... What is it? That doesn't give out a heat, his signature. I've talked about this before. So, okay, if that's true, then that means that an extraordinary part of engineering, of systems, of material engineering, and all this has been classified from inception to date. I talked about this with the atomic bomb. The atomic bomb, theoretically, was possible.

But if the government knows about aliens, that would also require a mass government-wide cover-up. So it also would require. Based on your previous commentary, it seems like you do think that they know about some of these things that are going on.

And that would also require an extraordinary multi-decades long cover up. So it doesn't seem any less plausible to me that they're able to cover up whatever this particular technological advancement is and whatever they're out there doing. The fact, I think it is telling to your point that there hasn't been some sort of military marshaled response. They haven't as local politicians have called for them to do. They haven't issued a state of emergency. They haven't shut down.

the skies for drone, you know, for use of other commercial or civilian drones. And so, to me, that is a tell that either it's us and they know it or, you know, your theory that it's extraterrestrial. I just think there is, that is such an extraordinary and implausible explanation that it requires a lot more evidence than just seeing things that are unexplained in the US government acting where, because the US government always acts weird and secretive even about things that it shouldn't be.

Yeah, I totally agree. And I take your point on the quote unquote UFO cover up. Part of what makes it so extraordinary and annoying is that everything is about obfuscation. It's about terrifying. It's about nobody knows anything. They just know that it's not other things. And so it's not that complicated. Also, I would say that the United States government of the 1940s, which initially covered up Roswell and everything, was a very, very competent government that set up a program which literally could not exist today. So we can go that will take forever to go through. But my point

of just why I think that at the very least we can all agree that there's a full-blown cover up. Let's please put A8 up on the screen. The New Jersey governor Phil Murphy is saying, quote, residents deserve more concrete information on mystery drones. He sent a letter to President Biden on Thursday urging the president to continue to direct federal agencies.

to find the origin of the unmanned aircraft systems, quote, while I'm sincerely grateful for administration's leadership in addressing this concerning issue, it has become apparent that more resources are needed to fully understand what is behind this activity. He continues to put out tweets and others. I'm looking at just one from last night where he spent the night actually with the FBI and with others who were in New Jersey to, quote, discuss drone FBI investigation into recent drone

sightings, quote, we are ready to assist the federal government in getting to the bottom of this. So clearly he's mounting a pressure campaign on the feds to try and get them to send more resources. I don't know if any of this will be successful. I think they'll just continue to try and to wait it out. But it is just it's truly extraordinary. It really is about what's happening here. And you know, it just gives me even less faith, I guess, in the government than ever before.

Yeah, it is certainly extraordinary. And, you know, I have ruled out that it's just like nothing and people are imagining things. So it's just not possible. Yeah, at this point, it's just not possible. You got any faith in your man coming in, revealing any of this classified information, Trump? Who? Oh, Trump? Well, first of all, I would not call him my man.

Do I have any faith in Donald Trump? Maybe. I mean, there's a bigger question. Do you really reveal anything last time? The question is, is it even up to Donald Trump? Is it even something that's in his repertoire or his, like, of options? I don't think so. I mean, I don't think that's the way that the system has been able to live for so long. But I could be wrong. I certainly hope so. You could try. Maybe you can get 1%. Even 1% would be amazing.

to be able to get any out of this. At the very least, what he could do is continue the public rhetoric. He's got an interest, you know, he has a house in New Jersey in Bedminster where they've apparently had sightings before. And one of the ways you can easily reel it out too is that there's an FAA guidance that you're not allowed to fly anything. I think pretty far down a pilot than they are, either. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Especially with some of these theories about like, oh, there's a secret dirty bomb in there before, like,

Okay. Right, and that's another reason that the Fed should just tell people what's happening because people are gonna freak out. You know, you're gonna have mass panic and I don't know. I'm surprised there's not actually more. Right now people just seem to find it sort of like intriguing. Yes, that's right. Versus like really scary. Well, if we see any more, you know, we're only like one incident away or something like that from really igniting something really bad. Yeah. I think it could be. I think at the very least, stay tuned.

What's up, everybody? I'm Nate and Berk here to tell you about a new podcast, my hard podcast in the National Hockey League. It's NHL Unscripted with Berk and Dimmerse. Hey, I'm Jason Dimmerse, former 700-game NHL defenseman, turned NHL network analyst, and boy oh boy does daddy have a lot to say.

I love you, by the way, on NHL Network. We're looking forward to getting together each week to chat and chirp about the sport and all the other things surrounding it that we love, right? Yeah, I just met you today, but we're going to have a ton of guests from the colliding world of hockey, entertainment, and pop culture. And you know what? Tons of back and forth on all things NHL. Yeah, you're just going to find out we're not just hockey talk. We had all kinds of random stuff on this podcast, movies, television, food, wrestling, even the stuff that you wear on NHL now.

You wish you could pull off my short charts, Verki. That's sure to cause a ruckus. Listen to NHL Unscripted with Birkin Diverse, the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome to Decisions Decisions, the podcast where boundaries are pushed and conversations get candid. Join your favorite host, me, WZWTF and me, Mandy B. As we dive deep into the world of non-traditional relationships and explore the often taboo topics surrounding dating, sex,

and love. That's right. Every Monday and Wednesday, we both invite you to unlearn the outdated narratives dictated by traditional patriarchal norms. With a blend of humor, vulnerability, and authenticity, we share our personal journeys navigating our 30s, tackling the complexities of modern relationships, and engage in thought-provoking discussions that challenge societal expectations.

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All right, let's go ahead and get to some updates with regard to Luigi Mangioni and the media reaction in particular, those extraordinary segment on Fox Business where they took great issue with the comments that both Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren have made basically saying, listen, of course, murder is wrong. We all know that. However, you have to understand the public reaction and how they see the healthcare system as itself being violent, cruel and evil in response to this Fox Business. I guess, what is Joe Conshen? The contributor there?

Concha? It's like a media contributor. Anyway, media critic, whatever. Analysts was brought on to call for their resignation over these comments. Let's take a listen.

this absolutely makes my blood boil lives and i'm sure that's true of anyone saying and sober who advocates a civil society these are including was that warren bernie sanders has had the same sentiment to u s senators that we're talking about they've been in office for decades and they think that shooting a father of two boys a husband in the back like a coward on the street like this six six person

uh... luigi manji oni did last week uh... they're saying that what brian tomson the ceo had it coming somehow both should resign from the senate for this rhetoric they are begging copycat killers to come along and start taking out other ceos or anybody in a position of power whom they disagree with or whose industry they disagree with

Every democrat on Capitol Hill should be asked that they support or condemn this ridiculous, reckless rhetoric. The same kind of rhetoric list, by the way, that Democrats used that nearly got Donald Trump killed twice, including once on national television. I mean, look,

I thought that Obamacare was supposed to bring down the cost of healthcare and premiums. The opposite has happened. Are we going to hear criticism from Elizabeth Warren about the architect to Obamacare or the president? It was named after. Yeah, doubtful. Liz Warren and Bernie Sanders should be shamed into oblivion for this. As should every member of the media, by the way, that is turning this lunatic into a sex symbol. It's nauseating as a father, as a human being.

So, to state the obvious, analysis of the public reaction is not the same thing as advocacy for murder quite clearly. Number two, hilarious for Republicans to purl clutch over violent rhetoric when of course Donald Trump was out there like calling for the military to be turned on his

political enemies. Number three, the idea saga that Bernie Sanders in particular, but also Elizabeth Warren, haven't been critical of Obamacare, is kind of preposterous. And number four, there's a later part in the segment, which it was like a five-minute segment, so we don't want to play the whole clip, it's just too long, where he starts going off on AOC, too, and he's like, why don't these people offer solutions? It's like, they literally have been offering, you may not like their solutions,

But Medicare for All is a solution that they have been pushing for Bernie Sanders in particular for probably literally decades at this point. So whole thing is just fake outrage over, you know, what has been a mass reaction against the healthcare industry in the wake of the scaling.

So I think there has been a mass reaction. I think what I'm begin, I guess I'm just starting to get skeptical that this is, okay, having lived through some leftist, you know, justifications for violence and others, there generally seems to be an overestimation of quote unquote, how much the public is with you? So just because something is viral on TikTok or elsewhere, I mean BLM was violent, viral on not TikTok, social media or whatever.

at the time, but people publicly turned against it. So I'm not saying that the quote unquote rage and all of that isn't there, but I also am a little bit skeptical that people are full blown. I'm like, yeah, I'm actually like genuinely happy that this person has been killed. Oh, I don't, I'm not saying that. Okay, but you know, there's, but I mean, for example,

There's this theory like you just laid out that people are like crying out for universal healthcare. But you know, if you look at the statistics, I mean, the vast majority of people are quote, okay with their own healthcare plan or coverage. I don't agree with that. I think Euro healthcare plan coverage, et cetera is way too expensive is bad. People mostly have affinity for their doctors. I mean, a lot, a small portion of the US public, some 30 to 40 million is genuinely like destroyed by the US healthcare system.

I think those are the people who probably have been speaking out against this, but I also don't think we should overstate the case of like what all this is. Like if the people truly cried out for universal healthcare, I think they would get it. And I just genuinely don't think that- You think we live in a democratic system where people get what they want and they support it popularly because that has not been my experience? I mean, if you think back even to the 2020 primary, right? Bernie Sanders is running on Medicare for All. Every poll showed that majority

large majority of the Democratic voters, even in states like Mississippi, supported Medicare for all over maintaining the current system. However, they backed Joe Biden because they were convinced that he was the only person who could be Donald Trump and they were convinced by the electability argument. There was recent polling, I think, from Gallup.

that showed the highest level in recent years of people saying that they believe it should be the government's responsibility to provide for universal health care. That's not the same thing as Medicare for all though. But I'm not saying exactly that, but I mean that is a commitment to this should be a human right. Health care should be a right and not a privilege. And I do think even if you look at the polling in this election,

Neither candidate ran on healthcare. I mean, outside of like, oh, we're going to lower a few prescription drug prices or whatever. That was it. Healthcare has been completely excised from the national political conversation up until this moment. But even with that being the case, with neither political party really pushing the issue, you still had people ranking healthcare reform as one of their top

issues. It clearly is a system that causes a great deal of pain. Now, you're right. Do you want to take what happens on Twitter as always real life? No. But the fact that you had the same reaction across every single platform, I think definitely tells you that there is some

They're there. And there was actually polling that came out. We didn't include it in this segment. But some pretty extraordinary polling, especially of young people, where Luigi Mangioni, the killer, has a higher approval rating than healthcare in the United States, health insurance companies, and Brian Thompson, who's a slain CEO. But this is part of the problem with the cherry-picking stats. Congress has a 13% approval rating. 90% of people approve of their member of Congress, right?

The point is, is that it's complicated in terms of how it actually manifests. So you think people are actually satisfied with Congress? I think people like their congressmen or delude themselves into thinking that their particular congressmen is the good one. It's all the other bad ones that are the, it's like doctors. I've talked about this before. Everyone loves their doctor. Nobody wants to talk about why our doctors are wildly overpaid. Sorry, Docs. I know you'll be crucifying me for that one compared to every other developed country in the world. Like this is the thing is that if you actually dig into it and you look

All right, even coming back to the universal health care point, like you just talked about, the government has responsibility. That's not the same thing as a single-payer system. Right now, if you look at faith in our medical system, public health and others, after you've just gone through COVID, how could you want the government to take over universal health care? That's insane considering the amount of bullshit that they talked and lied to us for over five years. If anything, America's become way more libertarian.

But- Whenever it comes to health- You want big pharmaceutical company- No, no, no. This is about what I want. This is about how people are- This is about how people are beautiful. And health insurers with a for profit motive. I mean, if you just look at our system, compared to, listen, I'm not saying that every other country with universal health care where it's perfect and nobody has any complaints, but the cost is lower, the care is better, and people live longer. I agree. It's very clear.

And is it a universal sentiment in favor? No, of course not. But there's, I think it's pretty undeniable at this point that this moment has struck a chord with people because so many Americans have had some horrible experience with the healthcare system and do experience it's as effectively cruel and terrible and inhuman. I mean, it's just at its core, like putting profits

over, actually caring for people when they're ill, making sure they get what they need, that is an immoral system that we have set up. And yes, I think that millions and millions of Americans experience it as such, and that's why they're reacting to it. So to, you know, just like dismiss that, I just don't, I just don't agree.

missing I'm just not I don't want to overstate it I think there's it's trendy and it's cool right now to like talk about Louisiana and I get look it's funny alright like as somebody who's been on 4chan since literally a teenager I understand dark humor etc it doesn't bother me alright like if anything I'm laughing right there with you but I'm not gonna overstate the case as some sort of like mass social

I just think it's a lot more multifaceted than a lot of people who want quote unquote universal healthcare. Believe, trust in government is an all time low, trust in institutions. I mean, the vaccine rate is now basically just like following. I think the flu shot had the lowest uptick literally ever in modern American history. The number of people who are choosing personal exemption and are outwardly flouting government guidance is higher than ever. I don't even think any of that is necessarily a bad thing because people are asking questions for themselves. But that doesn't support.

But yeah, okay, old people like when Medicare pays their bills, but they don't like whenever they get told what to do. But that's mostly what Medicare for all would be. That's what Medicare for all, that's the proposal for Medicare for all, is just to expand Medicare, already a very popular program. And Bernie's plan specifically would just continuously lower the age until you have everyone covered by Medicare.

Much lower administrative costs, much better outcomes, you know, in line with what many other countries have done. So it's not like you're going to be going to like your government issued doctor, although I will also say that the VA healthcare system is also much better than the private healthcare system. You're certainly, listen, I don't disagree about health outcomes, et cetera. I just don't think we live in a society that can tolerate this right now.

I mean, I can talk about Japan all day long, but when that can tolerate bike, literal government administration rationing and so that like in Canada and the UK, these are baked in social programs from World War two onwards 75 years. Yeah, people, they love, they love Medicare and social security. They like universal programs are very popular.

they like it when the government pays their bills. They don't necessarily like it whenever they're being told what to do or they're rationing care or whenever we had, what was it? There was huge COVID outbreaks and a lot of these Medicare or single homes. So what do you think that the best solution would be? So if you ask me about solution, I think we should have universal coverage, not necessarily single payer. I think there's certainly, every American should have access to low cost healthcare, but a lot of people will not like what it takes to get there. Like a public option?

I'm not really sure. I mean really it's about democratic because the point is that we need to have sure that people have coverage. We also need to break up and destroy a lot of the cost factors which is private equity hospitals, which is doctors, the American Medical Association, the fact that our people are getting five times more salary than the average doctor.

In Europe, it's outrageous. I feel like there's a treatment of the American people as if they're this static entity that have their minds made up and we just have to analyze what that is. And in reality, people are very like their minds change and they're persuadable.

And, you know, when an event occurs that causes them to think about the healthcare system differently, they change their minds and they open their minds to new possibilities. I mean, you know, previously in the early Obama era, for example, the idea of something like Medicare for All, I mean, that wasn't even on the table. Now there is large and potentially majority, certainly some polls have shown.

majority support for Medicare for all. So I just think, you know, you can't just treat the American people like, this is what they think, and that's that. You also have to make the case for what you think would be a better solution and try to persuade people, especially in a moment of an opening right now, like we're having right now, that previously didn't exist. I mean,

under the common Trump in that campaign and what was being discussed there, this conversation wasn't even on the table. And now it is. And so I think potentially what you're reacting to is, yes, the fact that a lot of leftists who have long said this system is immoral and horrible and we should not have a for-profit system are using this opening where there is a national conversation happening about healthcare to suggest an alternative. There is absolutely that is going on.

But I think that's a, I think that should be. That's an appropriate conversation to have in this moment rather than, hey, maybe the solution is like murdering healthcare CEOs, which is obviously preposterous saying, yes, we understand why you're angry at this system. Here is a solution that would be much more effective, has been tried in other countries, would save money and would save lives. I think that's the leftist conversation that's going on here outside of just shit posting.

Fair enough, yeah, and there's a lot of, first of all, there is a boomer tendency right and left to take seriously shit posts, which are obviously a joke. So again, as a somebody who's grew up on 4chan, it doesn't bother me and I'm not reacting to any of that at all. You don't think Bernie should resign for this comment? No, I do not think.

And by the way, I'm fine with the intellectual analysis of, quote-unquote, justification of violence because that's all of history is about thinking about why we have certain extreme reactions sometimes in the case of Luigi. Like October 7th. Totally, October. I can think of it forever. I mean, you know, any killing, January 6th, right? How many conversation would you have here on this show? I remember talking about that guy who died of a heart attack who voted for Barack Obama in Alabama.

and was a union worker who literally died of a heart attack while storming the Capitol on January 6th. How does that happen? It's an interesting sociological story which obviously has major societal implications. So I don't object to any of that. What I am looking at is this theory of like, oh, like health care itself is the answer.

And politically, it just has a bad track record. I mean, if you look at Obamacare, destroyed in the midterms 2010. Trump then gets destroyed in 2018 when he tries to repeal Obamacare. The general thesis to me, it seems to me, is when you screw with the healthcare system, people are pissed. I mean, that doesn't mean that the system itself is good, but I keep coming back to that Congress thing, where people say that they're outraged.

But when you actually wanna change something or if they actually wanna vote for something different, they never do it. I mean, if you look at their actual voting patterns. People voting for different, like- Then why do they keep re-electing their income? With lash back and forth. That's what the presidential party is. Like there clearly has been, we live in an era where people are consistently voting for change and never really getting the change that they ultimately want. I mean, Obamacare is an interesting example because, yeah, people were dissatisfied with certain aspects of it. In my opinion, especially,

You know, if a single payer wasn't on the table, then at least having a public option there would have made the bill much more effective, much more popular in the short term. But even Obamacare, as imperfect as it is, over time, it has been clear to people, it did make some improvements, which is why when Trump tried to take it away, there was this mass reaction.

against going backwards in our healthcare system. So in any case, like I said, I'm not claiming that everyone in country suddenly supports Medicare for all. What I am saying is that when you have an opening in the conversation that wasn't there before, of course it makes sense for people to put forward their ideas for, hey, instead of having vigilante violence.

How about we reform the system in this way so that we have less cruelty, sickness, illness, bankruptcy, and death. This is an idea that could accomplish that and try to push the conversation forward because ultimately, you know, otherwise there is no real change. Again.

I don't even really disagree in terms of the sociological analysis. I guess it's just one of the comments on the general politics of it. I'll tell you what doesn't help the general politics of it and gives the left a point. Let's put this up there on the screen. Corporate America, quote, gets more reclusive following CEOs' killings and fear in the C-suite after UnitedHealthcare CEO is gunned down. And now all of a sudden, you know, public officials and others are talking about, actually, this is my exact prediction.

I was like, the only thing that's going to come out of this is that there's going to be security guys out there, former Navy SEALs and others who are going to be printing money off of the quote unquote fear in the C-suite people taking down their websites like Bill Burr talked about as well. So this is obviously the ironic reaction is instead of talking about healthcare practices or whatever, is that of course they turn to, oh, we need to make sure that our CEOs and our executives are better protected.

against all the other the other reaction has been to try to criminalize criticizing health insurance companies yes you guys are going on in florida with this woman who was arrested as being charged for inciting terrorism threatening terrorism or i mean completely insane for you know repeating that i always get it wrong like denied a friend of pose repeating what louis gi man joni had on his bullets to some call center employee and say you all are going to be next not even saying like

Listen threats have to be credible and specific Okay, lots of people are out there probably you and I just don't really look getting death threats on Twitter and all kinds of other places all day long and unless it's incredibly specific and credible It is not illegal the idea that what this woman said is illegal is utterly preposterous

Was she able to post bail, do we know? Because she was even on $100,000. She was crazy now. But there was some rumors online that they had dropped the charges. Her family has updated and said that they have not dropped the charges. They were still pursuing this, completely utterly insane. I talked to Ken Klippenstein, who has been doing incredible and reporting that the mainstream media has not touched on this whole situation. And he has been discussing how there have been multiple people from within the national security apparatus, including incoming,

effectively terazarsab gorka, who wants to use this as a pretext for additional crackdowns on quote unquote anti-capitalist extremism. So yeah, I mean, that's if you don't reform and you have an increasingly unequal and cruel system, that is the other pathway is basically like security state crackdown, which is of course something that we have experienced over years and years of that increasing ratcheting up

of the surveillance and civil liberties, like going away endlessly for the past, I don't know how many years. So that is the other reaction we've seen here. And then this was hilarious. Kathy Hochl, governor of New York, who was just utterly pathetic.

unimpressive in every way you can imagine. Put this up on the screen. She's apparently, according to, I like the way that Luke Goldstein puts this, Kathy Hochl's holding a therapy session with 175 corporate representative CEOs to calm the nerves of the New York City business elite in the wake of Brian Thompson's killing, quote, demonization of corporate executives is not new, said Kathy Wild, CEO and president of the partnership for New York

who is leading this outreach meeting. So, you know, this is her response rather than trying to push for sort of any sort of healthcare reform. It's to hold the hands of these corporate CEOs. And, you know, I expect that would be the immediate Democratic Party response. You have plenty of people out there who are not sounding like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren, who are, you know, are not trying to understand why people are so angry at a system that is so unjust, barbaric, and cruel.

Well, in this case, the state of New York literally runs on rich people and on conferences, like their entire tax revenue. I think it's like 50% of their tax revenues paid by 50 individuals. Something like insane. It's insane in New York City. Some Gilded Age stuff right there. It's literally, and that's why these are non-functional places, places like San Francisco and New York. If you lose a single individual,

That's why their whole idea of taxation and the way that it works was great as long as you have like a moat around business. And that's why you need to reassure because what was that? What was Brian Thompson headed to from his hotel? His shareholder conference, right? So like, there you go. So without that and the hotels and the money and the ability of extreme, the extremely basically the global elite to converge on New York City for business, they have nothing going for them period.

Yeah, they just have very high social services. So it explains, you know, their friends. These are their donors. Yeah, exactly. The way it works. One more piece here that I just wanted to flag. I will say, you know, I'm not like, you know, I'm skeptical of a lot of conspiracy theories, but I am a little bit suspicious of the official narrative of how Luigi Mangione was ultimately apprehended.

In any case, Wall Street Journal had this piece saying that the way that they were able to apprehend him was this mix of new technology, advanced surveillance tech and old school sleuthing. The official narrative here is that they used all of this incredible surveillance architecture within New York City.

to be able to capture that one image of Luigi Mangione with his mask down at the hostel, then they put that out to the public. And by the way, speaking of rich people, this is a Tisch. She's one of the, a member of the, you know, wealthy, multibillionaire Tisch family owners of the Los Angeles Hotel.

Yeah, I learned that in this article. I was wondering because I noted the last name. They're part owners of the Giants anyway. Very storied, wealthy, extremely wealthy New York family here, in any case. So she is the NYPD commissioner, which is interesting in and of itself. So anyway, their theory is, okay, or their story is they got this picture, they put it onto the public.

And then some random person at McDonald's is able to spot Luigi Mangione based on that photo, call on a tip. The police are there minutes later and find the murder weapon, the manifesto, the bullets, et cetera. And that's how they're able to bring him to justice. I don't know. It just seems, I know that they were getting hundreds, if not thousands of tips into this hotline. Is it really?

probably that this one tip they would act on so immediately. I don't know. I find that a little bit hard to believe. And some people were pointing out online that McDonald's kiosks do have cameras and some sort of facial recognition technology at these McDonald's kiosks.

And wondering whether there was some ability to use this private surveillance tech by the public officials, which would obviously be extraordinary violation of privacy rights, et cetera. So just putting that out there that to keep an eye on the official story about how this individual was apprehended.

They suspected it, then they checked the camera, and then they dispatched it. Yeah, exactly, could be. I mean, it's not outside the realm of possibility. I've involuntarily been face scanned at airports where they don't even check your ID in some cases. If you fly through a major airport like Washington Dulles or elsewhere, sometimes TSA is doing these pilot programs where you don't even hand the TSA agent

your ID. They just scan your face and it pops on your boarding pass. And when you're boarding international flights these days, it's a game. Like when you board the default is that you're boarding by face by face scan. It's creepy. Nobody ever consent to tell. At least I don't remember checking a specific thing. I mean, maybe even if it's a farce, just scan the boarding pass. It makes me feel better as opposed to like, Oh, 23 you're like,

Whoa, that is really creepy. I mean, it is, and that's a private company, right? And then you think about the TSA and all that is there. I've pretty much given it all up after Enroll, I don't know, enrollment and global entry and all of these other things voluntarily, just so I don't get detained for three hours waiting in line. But that's another way that the government gets you on a lot of these programs. You know, 45 million people have TSA pre-check now, which means that their fingerprints are on file, that their, you know, face and others are inside of a government database. What are you gonna do?

What the alternative is, they're like, screw you, wait in line. Oh, you're going to miss your flight. You know, that's how they get you. Yeah. And it's phones that can be, you know, positioned by the cops and Alexa devices and surveillance camera. That is one thing you realize too, in the story about following this when it was a manhunt.

just how many cameras are recording you. That's why I didn't think you would ever get away with it. I was like, there's just no way these days. I mean, they can track everything, you know? But you know, I do think if you had immediately boarded a flight to another country before they had, because they said they didn't have a name, they didn't have really anything. Yeah.

Until that photo didn't even come out till the next day. Yeah, his biggest mistake was not just getting on the train to JFK and going to, I don't know, Zimbabwe or something. Yeah, he probably thought that they would have had his face ID more quickly than that and been able to apprehend him at the airport. Or maybe he wanted to get caught. I mean, I do think that's a possibility. I mean, he had the manifesto, the gun, and the item, which was done.

And he had ditched the backpack with the monopoly money. So he'd been ditching things along the way, seemingly kind of intentionally. So why don't you ditch the murder weapon and the men of whatever? Who knows what's going on in his mind? But anyway, those latest updates we have for you there.

What's up, everybody? I'm name Berkord, I tell you about a new podcast, my hard podcast in the National Hockey League. It's NHL-inscripted with Berk and D'MERS. Hey, I'm Jason D'MERS, former 700-game NHL defenseman, turned NHL network analyst, and boy, oh boy, does Daddy have a lot to say.

I love you, by the way, on NHL Network. We're looking forward to getting together each week to chat and chirp about the sport and all the other things surrounding it that we love, right? Yeah, I just met you today, but we're gonna have a ton of guests from the colliding worlds of hockey, entertainment, and pop culture. And you know what? Tons of back and forth on all things NHL. Yeah, you're just gonna find out we're not just hockey talk. We had all kinds of random stuff on this podcast, movies, television, food, wrestling, even the stuff that you wear on NHL now.

You wish you could pull off my short charts, Verki. That's sure to cause a ruckus. Listen to NHL Unscripted with Birkin Diverse, the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome to Decisions Decisions, the podcast where boundaries are pushed and conversations get candid. Join your favorite host, me, WZWTF and me, Mandy B. As we dive deep into the world of non-traditional relationships and explore the often taboo topics surrounding dating, sex,

and love. That's right. Every Monday and Wednesday, we both invite you to unlearn the outdated narratives dictated by traditional patriarchal norms. With a blend of humor, vulnerability, and authenticity, we share our personal journeys navigating our 30s, tackling the complexities of modern relationships, and engage in thought-provoking discussions that challenge societal expectations.

From groundbreaking interviews with diverse guests to relatable stories that will resonate with your experiences, decision decisions is going to be your go to source for the open dialogue about what it truly means to love and connect in today's world. Get ready to reshape your understanding of relationships and embrace the freedom of authentic connections. Tune in and join the conversation. Listen to decisions decisions on the Black Effect podcast network, iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

As Joe Biden reaches the end of his time in office, there have been, of course, a lot of discussion about pardons once he has already given, like, to his son. And we had a whole new raft of pardons that I'll get into momentarily. But also a question of whether or not he should and whether he will issue preemptive pardons for people who may be threatened by retribution from Donald Trump. Bernie Sanders weighed in on this question and said he was in favor of pardons for members of the January 6 committee. Let's take a listen to that.

We know the White House is considering potential preemptive pardons of those who've clashed with President-elect Trump. In light of what the president-elect said to me that, yes, he does think that members of the January 6 committee should go to jail. Do you think that Mr. Biden should issue preemptive pardons for the entire January 6 committee?

Well, I think he might want to consider that very seriously. Look, that is an outrageous statement. This is what authoritarianism is all about. It's what dictatorship is all about. You do not arrest elected officials who disagree with you, who undertake an investigation. So all of us, and I would tell you, Kristen, I think there are a lot of Republicans. You just heard Lindsey Graham make that statement. I think that idea of Trump is not going to go very far. It is so quite outrageous.

So kind of interesting, he on the one hand says, like, yes, I think he should consider that on the other hand. He says, I don't think a lot of these ideas are going to go very far. You have any reaction to this? We could move on to this. I just think it's kind of cringe. But I mean, like, maybe it will happen. Maybe not. I don't know. I mean, like you said it, find it.

genuinely unbelievable. It also just gets to the Biden theory of pardons of which I've been thinking about, which you also floated. Look, I don't agree with pardoning people on the death penalty, but I understand the like moral and philosophical case. But considering that his people who've been pardoned so far are his son and then a bunch of crooks who we're about to get to, people who should rot in hell for the rest of their lives while

Probably what most people would consider like non-violent offenses or whatever or people genuinely deserving of clemency, especially if you're a Democrat, if you're leftist, or you said you're gonna pardon all these people and you allowed those people, you know, to continue to be in prison. I'm just very interested that elected lawmakers are the ones that are consideration. My son is the very first person I pardon is my son. Then I will follow with commutations. That was kind of wild.

Exactly. So it's like, oh, so we're worried about the elected officials, the sons, and corrupt judges, but not others. Now, look, I'm not a leniency person in general, but if that's your framework, you got to see a lot of corruption here. So that's what I would say to Bernie Sanders.

So I think it makes sense, given the threats against people who were just on the January 6th committee or whatever, I think it's reasonable to issue preemptive pardons there. But let's go ahead and talk about what Biden has actually done already, because it is kind of well. Let's put this up on the screen. So he issued a raft of some 1,500 historic clemency package for 1,500 convicted criminals, who the White House said, quote, deserve a second chance. Most of these commutations

were for people who had been released during COVID. There was an effort, this was actually under Donald Trump, to alleviate some of the pressure in federal prisons and help stop the spread, which was really quite significant within the prison system. So people who were nonviolent, who I think were towards the end of their terms, were sent home to some sort of home imprisonment. And these 1,500 people were part of that program. And apparently,

In this mix of 1,500 people, one of the individuals who was pardoned is just one of the most despicable criminals you can possibly imagine. This judge who was in cahoots with the builders of these private juvenile detention facilities that was part of a scheme to sentence kids as young as like eight years old.

to juvenile detention, some of whom ultimately, several of whom ultimately committed suicide in these facilities because the conditions were so horrible and their lives were so horrible and so tortured. They called this man, I remember covering this case. It was the kids for cash.

was what they called him and there was another judge that was in cahoots with him. And he was one of the people that was pardoned as part of this. The headline here from CNN, they say victims of major public corruption cases in Pennsylvania and Illinois are angry. President Joe Biden granted clemency this week to two convicted officials.

So in addition to this crooked Pennsylvania judge, there was also what they describe as a notorious Illinois fraudster who had been convicted. Rita Crundwell is her name. She had been convicted of a $54 million embezzlement

scheme believed to be the largest municipal fraud in US history. But just so you understand how horrific this was, the situation with the judge, his partner in crime, like I said, ordered children as young as eight to juvenile detention. Many of them first-time offenders would be for things like petty theft, Jay walking

truancy, smoking on school grounds, other minor infractions. The judge often ordered UC had found delinquent to be immediately shackled, handcuffed, taken away without giving them a chance to put up a defense or even say goodbye to their families. The mother of one of these children who died by suicide after spending time in one of these facilities said she was shocked and hurt after learning of Biden's decision to commute the rest of Conahan's sentence and to your point, Sagar,

You know, think of some of the people whose sentences you could commute. I mean, Joe Biden claims to be against the death penalty. You have significant number of federal inmates on death row. He could commute their sentences. He, you know, to life in prison hasn't done that. Let's put this up on the screen. You have Leonard Peltier, who was convicted. He's a Native American activist.

who was convicted in the 70s, has been in prison for 44 years, is elderly. The original conviction would not hold up to scrutiny today. There was basically no evidence that he committed the crime that they accused him of committing, no sign that he's, you know, planning to pardon Leonard Peltier. The pressure continues and members of Congress have been pushing him to

go in this direction. Next one up on the screen, Julian Assange, not in prison anymore, but he is still being urged to also pardon Assange and clear him of his charges to send a message on media freedom. Jim McGovern, Democrat from Massachusetts, and Thomas Massey, a libertarian Republican from Kentucky. They both wrote to the president with a bipartisan request to pardon Julian Assange earlier in November. Another one up on the screen, someone we've had on this show, Stephen Donziger,

who stood up to Chevron and was prosecuted and persecuted for doing such. There are 34 members of Congress who are calling on Joe Biden to pardon Stephen Donziger. He was jailed directly by Chevron lawyers. Many experts call it the nation's first corporate prosecution. And again, he, you know, prior to his own son and pardoning this

a crooked, horrible judge, kids for cash judge, over any of these much more deserving and wrongfully imprisoned individuals. Yeah, look, I mean, again, presidential pardon is crazy. And it's funny that whenever they get to use it nine out of 10 times, they do what their monarchial predecessors always did, which is pardon their friends and oligarchical allies. Eventually, they will throw some crumbs or whatever to the people with a few

things like this. But it's really, I mean, the cash for kids one just makes no sense. And look, I think what happened is they just didn't look into it. They were just like mass pardons for all these people. No, but because remember under Trump, they had this whole, there's no pardons process and all of this. They, so they have a process. There's, there is no way a pardon gets to the president of the United States desk under this administration where they were not aware at least somewhat. I think incompetence is very

Maybe in competence, but what's the alternative? Zines as chief of staff has been an utter disaster. And so it would not surprise me. And obviously Joe Biden's brain is cooked. He's not looking. So he's just signing whatever? Yeah. I mean, whether it's actually they affirmatively wanted this guy to be released or it's incompetence, it doesn't lessen how disgusting it is that this person was included in the 1500 who received pardons. Yeah, absolutely. And that's kind of the point, is that if you look at some of the people who they do part in and who they do,

I just can't get over that the very perverse person is his own son. It's all about him. Then it's about the people who work for him. Then it's about rich donors or all these other people who've got strings and all these other things. And then eventually maybe we'll get to the people who have no power whatsoever. That is literally the story of pardons. I think the whole thing is completely clear. It's a very selfish individual. That means I'm one of the most selfish

men to ever occupy the Oval Office, which sounds crazy, but if you look at the decisions, every single one of them is true. The most important decision he ever had to make was whether he was going to run again, which requires self-knowledge. And he literally, in his own words, decided to doom the country to fascism according to him, big for it to salvage his own ego. I literally cannot think of a more selfish act. It's crazy. Absolutely crazy.

All right, we have an update on our gerontocracy. So Nancy Pelosi is apparently in the hospital or was in the hospital, suffered a fall while she was overseas in Luxembourg. We can put up this statement on the screen. This is from Ian Craiger, her spokesperson. While traveling with a bipartisan congressional delegation in Luxembourg, Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi sustained an injury during an official engagement was admitted to the hospital for evaluation.

They say she's currently receiving excellent treatment from doctors and medical professionals, continues to work, regrets she's unable to remain, to attend the remainder of the CODEL engagement, blah, blah, blah. So significant injury here that was sustained by her and my understanding is what she ended up having to have a hip replacement, is that what happened?

I don't know, I haven't seen it yet. I'm looking for the same thing. But you know, that's no joke when you're how old is she? She's 80-something. She is 84 years old. Hipper placement is not a joke. Fall is one of the leading causes or contributors to death of people who are over the age of 70. By the way, that's a good reason to always try and stay in shape because it's very difficult whenever you lose muscle mass in those, especially to recover.

after a situation like this, it can often lead to degradation. I hope for the best and I hope she's okay, but it is just, it's sad because it just highlights that these people cling to power, no matter what, you're 84 years old, you're worth over $100 million, right? At your ostensibly not even- Oh, well earned. Yeah, yeah, totally well earned. Well deserved, you know?

It's a listen, you live in a meritocracy, right? I just can pray it is a hip replacement. She had a hip replacement here in Luxembourg, so significant fall. You're in a foreign country, you know, in terms of all these things. You're subjecting yourself to, and you're doing it at this point, for what? You lost the signature achievement of the Pelosi, you know, leaders. Everyone says she's one of the greatest leaders of all time. It's like, well, you know, not

when you put it up against Rayburn and some of the other great speakers of the House. But just objectively, look at the course of the Democratic Party under her. You had Barack Obama and they were all jazzed and excited for them. They got blown out in 2010. They briefly returned to power as a bulwark against Trump to resign him to the dustbin of history, as you'll all recall. And their project over the last

12 years, the political project has been a failure. It has led now to, again, the rise of Donald Trump into no house majority. So people can say that you have been such a great accomplishment and wielder of power, et cetera. I don't see any of that at all at this point. If anything, it's just time, you got to go. Just go home, retire, be in peace. Well, even if we think of

her chest move with regard to, she was instrumental in getting Biden. Good, right, right move. Obviously should have been done long before then, so there could actually be a democratic primary process, but okay, you got Joe Biden out. But then she didn't have the stones or the savvy to make sure there would be some sort of a process that it wouldn't be Kamala Harris.

And Joe Biden endorses Kamala and reportedly Pelosi and Obama both wanted to have some sort of an open process that could result in a candidate other than Kamala Harris, but they didn't have the savvy, the stones, the boldness, whatever it was required.

in order to push for that open process so that there would be a better chance for Democrats to unite behind a stronger candidate than Kamala Harris, because they were all well aware of what her weaknesses were. And so even in this that you consider to be like your core mission here to defeat Donald Trump, and I think she did take that very seriously,

she's unable to actually fully execute and complete that job. The other thing to note about Nancy Pelosi right now is AOC has been working and apparently pretty successfully working behind the scenes to become ranking member on the House Oversight Committee, which is quite significant. Whatever you think of AOC, she has done a good job in past questioning of officials and holding them to account.

And obviously he's young and one of the younger faces of the party, et cetera, et cetera. AOC has also done so much to suck up to the establishment wing of the party and make herself acceptable to them, et cetera, et cetera. But I guess Nancy Pelosi has never forgiven the fact that AOC protested outside of her office.

when she was on her way into Congress. And so she apparently is working behind the scenes to thwart AOC's bid to be ranking member on the House Oversight Committee and put in Jerry Connolly. He's just like a, you know, he's actually from Northern Virginia. He represents Fairfax County, very standard issue, establishment friendly, Democrat. And so she's working to push his bid into Fort AOC. So it just shows you, even in her dotage, she is still one of the major

power players in Washington, D.C. And it's not just Democrats who suffer from this problem. Emily and Ryan did a great job last week reporting on Mitch McConnell's increasingly infirm condition. Emily exclusively was able to get this picture of Mitch in a wheelchair being wheeled through

Ronald Reagan National Airport. He also suffered a fall. Was that just last week that that happened as well? And so, you know, once again, you have a very elderly individual who was trying to hold on to power.

Apparently, part of why he wants to stay in his position, we can put this up on the screen, is to make sure that aid continues to flow to Ukraine. Scott Horton may have more to say about that later in the show, but this is a trend in American society. Ken Klippenstein had a good piece on his sub stack which you all should subscribe to if you're able with a chart showing.

how the average age of members of Congress has been getting older and older and older. We can put that chart up on the screen. I think we have that for you as well.

Look at that, percentage of Congress over the age of 70. Look at the way that skyrockets, like that is insane. And Sagar, I always think you made the best point, which is that this really in a fundamental sense reflects a failure of democracy. That's what allows these people to basically rig the system to circumvent any sort of real democratic process and just hold on to power forever. And literally some of them literally die in office, like die in Feinstein. And there was, I believe what was a Republican,

Last year, who also died while he was in office at some 80 some years old, like, it's insane, insane that they hold on to power until they are literally taking their last dying breath. I agree. I also though, it comes back to our healthcare thing. I've just increasingly resigned where it's true they resigned the system, rigged the system and all that, but people just seem to excuse it. I don't understand the truck, like he's like 92 years old.

McConnell got reelected. So did Pelosi. It's not she's up every two years and they're like, yep, we're cool with this. I don't get it. I just don't understand why people continue to prop this thing up. And I mean, on their end, I do with McConnell. I mean, it's it's literally a joke. He has a new piece out this morning in foreign affairs. The price of American retreat why Washington must reject isolationism and embrace primacy. It's like, yeah, how's that in primacy going in Iraq, bro?

and in Syria. I'm sure it worked out really well, but this is it also shows to the things that they hang on and that they cling to and what for are so just ridiculous. They're not hanging on to the bitter end just to make sure that Kentucky is great again.

is revitalized. They're doing it so that the city of Kiev can be revitalized. So look, it's sometimes a talking point, but it is genuinely true. They do actually care more about Ukraine, about NATO, and all these other places than they do about you. And those are the people that continue to get elected. So I just don't know what to do about that.

just a last thought on that point. So in Kentucky, in particular, Mitch McConnell is not liked. Like, he's very unpopular. And so you do ask, okay, well, why does he continue to get reelected? And I mean, it is a sort of anti-democratic process where Kentucky is a red state now, so they don't want to vote for a Democrat. So when he gets into a general election contest versus also Democrats put up terrible cannons, like Amy McGrath, but whatever.

He's very likely to get elected, but he has that Republican party on lock in the state so that he is not really challenged in Republican primaries. So it is a circumventing of democracy and then in the case of Nancy Pelosi in San Francisco.

You know, first of all, all the money in the world, right? Wealthy woman herself and probably the most prolific fundraiser in the Democratic Party. I'm sure Mitch McConnell is in a slouch in the Republican Party in terms of raising funds as well. But then in addition,

She refused to do any sort of democratic debate. These are the her challengers in the Democratic primary, where again, it's a situation where it's a very blue area. You're not gonna have a Republican succeed in that district. So the whole game is in the Democratic primary. And so again, it's really, there's a real failure of a democratic process there. When you saw the same thing with Diane Feinstein, where she's able to hold on and says, you know, literally didn't even know where she was.

also because they blocked having any sort of a democratic debate and the powers that be lined up behind her and short-circuited the progressive challenger who was making the case that we should go in a different direction. And so a lot of these things do come down to basic failures of democracy and show that erosion of real ability to effectuate change and have any kind of real choice within this current locked-in system.

What's up, everybody? I'm Dan Vercier to tell you about a new podcast. It's NHL Unscripted with Verc and Diverse. Jason and MERS here in after playing 700 NHL games. I got a lot of dirty laundry to air out. Hey, I got a lot to say here too, OK? Each week we'll get together to chat with the sport that we love. Tons of guests are going to join in too, but we're not just going to be talking hockey, folks. We're talking movies. We're talking TV, food, and Ann Ann's favorite wrestling. It's all on Litable.

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